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Duality, Opposites, and Unities.

 
 
—| x |—
08:16 / 25.08.02
grant said:

Who said being a man is the opposite of being a woman?

Which is really a damn fine question. Some of you may know that I have spent a good deal of time thinking and writing about duality (and not merely here on the board). I have spent this time wrestling with duality because, in part, it seems like such a common thing in our reality. We have—listed as binary pairings—{left, right}, {up, down}, {on, off}, {light, dark} to name but a few of the polarities that we encounter in day-to-day living. One of the “heaviest” dualities that we are confronted with is {true, false}. The Oxford Dictionary defines ‘dual’ as “in two parts, twofold.” This definition doesn’t contain the notion of “opposite” per se, but binary pairs often come to be seen as opposites. Opposites imply a notion of contrariness, whereas duality in the sense given does not. However, dualities can also be seen as contraries—we certainly see this in the dual {true, false}; hence, proof by reductio ad absurdum.

Part of my work with duality is to show (by argument or rhetoric, depending on your authoritative position and the particular dual pairing that I am working with at any given time) that these dualistic pairings are representative of a single whole—that binary pairings are a “twofold” manifestation of a unity: two sides to the same coin, to use a coined phrase. Or, closer to how I tend to think about it, duality is the alternating frequency of a single vibration: {peak, valley}, or perhaps {positive, negative}. In reference to grant’s question, we can see that {man, woman} is the twofold manifestation of the unity captured by “human being.” There are humans, and then there is the dual manifestation of basic types of humans. Granted, there are examples that don’t fit neatly into a static dualistic perspective ( as Ganesh points out in the same thread ), but in a general sense there are human males and human females—the methods of natural reproduction illustrate this quite clearly!

(Besides, I am not one to ever think that things can be merely static (get the joke?)!)

Anyway, I started reading Beyond Good and Evil by Friedrich Nietzsche, and he tends to be critical of thinking there are opposites; that is, I think that grant’s question would make Nietzsche happy to know that it was asked. Nietzsche, in doubting the existence of opposites, instead asserts the existence of degrees of graduation. This is something which I am comfortable with, but also somewhat skeptical (depending on what Nietzsche is rejecting). Do not degrees of graduation need some dual polarity between which the degrees are defined? An example of this would be the various degrees of light or dark at any given point between pitch black and entirely blinding white light. In order to define the degree of light present or absent, we need the binary pair of {light, dark}.

But then, light and dark are commonly seen as opposites. As I said above, I do not tend to think of dual pairings as opposites, but more as complements to one and other: a twofold manifestation of a singularity. However, several dual pairings can be—and are—easily formulated as contrary to one another. In computer language, a one is not a zero; that is, on stands in direct opposition to off. And for another example, a positive current is not a negative current, and the two stand in opposition to one and other.

So, while the Pythagoreans formulated their Table of Opposites (as it is often called) and this table did indeed include the binary pair {male, female}, is it reasonable to say that this pair, unlike other pairs, do not stand in opposition to one and other (and if yes, then so much for the battle of the sexes!); i.e., are male and female not opposites in the way that light and dark might be opposites? Or are we best to go with an interpretation, like Nietzsche, which dismisses the notion of opposites altogether? But if we take to such an interpretation, then do we a still have binary pairs which will define the spectrum of the degrees of graduation?
 
 
Seth
08:47 / 25.08.02
Accepting degrees of graduation doesn't necessarily imply that there are varying positions on just one axis between two polar opposites. For example, one may take a two or even three dimensional geometric shape, for which the corners of the shape represent extreme positions and the individual's position is a free-floating element within the field. Or one could take the alchemical paradox of the squared circle, implying as it does a quaternity (in which the binary pair has transitory states between the two poles) simultaneous with a circle (wholeness).
 
 
—| x |—
09:27 / 25.08.02
I would certainly agree, expressionless! I am talking here about what we might think of as "simple cases." Cases where graduation does occur on one axis (even though I agree that this is still in an ideal and abstract realm). I mean, we can have geometrical objects in n dimensions, but still, the graduation of each axis seems defined by some duality, perhaps {less than, greater than} or {positive, negative}, or something like that.

Thus, while we would get a free floating point that is located in a field by an n-tuple, for example, a point in three dimensions such as {1, 4, -2}, each of those elements of the three-tuple have been generated by their location on a single axis as defined by a polarized binary pairing.

The question I want to raise here is whether or not some or all dualities are opposites, if there are opposites at all, and if we can have dualistic binary pairs without the need to think of any of them as opposites.
 
 
Seth
09:58 / 25.08.02
I think the main point here is to only talk in opposites when it's useful. Left and right is as good a pair as any to illustrate this. If I were giving directions, it's useful to share an understanding of the two as opposites with the person I'm directing - otherwise it would get far too confusing. In this case, there is no advantage to considering an axis between the two. Taken as the political left/right, the existence of an axis between the two extreme theoretical positions allows degrees of interaction, compromise and dialogue, which would be restricted by adopting a polarised attitude. Or taken as the two hemispheres of the brain, the two (when working right) perform different functions as part of the same whole, and there is an advantage in differentiating between their functions at the same time as emphasisng their unity. The point being, you must adopt an appropriate understanding for each, and not be prescriptive for all.
 
 
XXII:X:II = XXX
14:59 / 25.08.02
Politically, the fallacy of the terms "left" and "right" have been in the process of breaking down over the past decade, and it's really starting to gather steam now, what with avowed Democrats going full-tilt totalitarian while lifelong GOP members begin to buck at violations of civil liberties in the name of national security. (Some might argue that these tendencies have always been beneath the surface of each party's politics, but that's a separate discussion.) Meanwhile, third parties are more popular than they've been in perhaps the last century at least, as those disenfranchised by the big two and their increasing centrism (and thus, entropism) begin to see that there's a broader spectrum of thought possible.

Ideologically, while we're assured that big organized religion is merely going through its death-throes, the assumption that only atheism will be left in its wake is being put to lie by an increase in less authoritarian, more personally-meaningful systems of spirituality. The assumption by the religious that without religion as they understand it there is only a moral vacuum is also an explosion of dualistic thinking.

Semiotically, I think Tim Leary was often cited (often by RAW) as saying that once space travel becomes more commonplace many of our instinctual dualistic systems (especially up & down) will shatter, giving rising to a much more holistic thought process. Of course, the neo-conservatism in society is currently very much down on the space program; the possibility of what it represents to thought might subconsciously make them very nervous.
 
 
SMS
17:16 / 25.08.02
I think we need an anti-Mod3, decidedly not concerned with duality.

The thing about opposites is that they require similarities in the first place, and similarities are products of the mind. That one of Mod3's posts should be associated with another of hir posts may seem perfectly natural to us, but we cannot defend it except, as expressionless suggests, we recognize the usefulness of doing so. I could define a word "Larry" as something having the following characteristic: it is either post 140900 of Barbelith, a Bic Roundstick, or my left leg. I could make "Barney" every other comic in a box in my basement, and make "Ellie" either a Larry or a Barney. Suddenly, Mod3's post is the sort of the opposite of some comic books. Or at least Larry is the opposite of Barney by being the set of all non-Barney in the space of Ellies.
 
 
reFLUX
19:40 / 26.08.02
one important aspect of opposites, i believe, is there interrelationship. one does not exist without the other. (as said, two sides of the same coin) they define each other to a degree. but there being opposites should not mean we do not see the degrees of seperation between them. in society this is often missed, in general. binary does not have to mean opposite as being completely seperate, because i believe they are not. there is always a relationship. nes pas?
 
 
—| x |—
06:00 / 27.08.02
"The thing about opposites is that they require similarities in the first place..."

"one important aspect of opposites, i believe, is there interrelationship. one does not exist without the other"

Yes indeed, this is what I am saying about a twofold manifestation of a single thing. Like Yin and Yang are a twofold manifestation of the singular Tao. But what I am wondering is if it is psychically unhealthy to think of these sorts of pairings in terms of opposites?

Opposites seem to imply opposition: one against the other. Duality does not appear to imply this opposition, but duality becomes easily interpreted as such. The Larry and Barney example seems to show this. Relative to the set Ellie, Larry and Barney aren't opposites, but complements—Ellie is the "fusion" of Larry and Barney. However, we could also say that they are opposites. I am thinking that claiming that two things are opposites might more easily misrepresent the twofold nature of a single thing. It is much easier to see Larry as completely separate from Barney if we think of them as opposites (or so it seems to me).

"The point being, you must adopt an appropriate understanding for each, and not be prescriptive for all."

Agreed, but that is exactly what I am driving at: is thinking about binary pairs as opposites inappropriate?

In the {left, right} explanation, why is it that we have to think of these two as opposites? How does thinking of them as complements make giving directions any more difficult? Is it ever useful to think of the two elements in a binary pairing as opposite?

It seems to me that thinking in terms of opposites devalues, deteriorates, and deters thinking of the two elements as parts of a whole.

As for Leary, well, that seems like a backwards yearning for a golden age: instead of looking to return to some ideal past, he seems to be pining for some future scenario where everything will be good. We can't wait around until we are migrating to space to solve our problems that arise, in part, out of a misunderstood interpretation of dualistic manifestations: we have to work on it now, in this lifetime. Moreover, it seems that such thinking is simply flawed—if we still have human bodies when we are all cruising through space, then we will still have our dualistic interpretations of spatial direction, regardless of whether or not we are at the bottom of a gravity well: we'll still have our feet and head—{down, up}, we will still have our front and back, and we will still have our left and right.

Again, it seems to me that the problem with dualistic thought is not that such thought exists—it mirrors our spatial sense perceptions; rather, it is the way in which binary pairs come to be interpreted—as in opposition or mutually exclusive to one and other—that appears as what needs to be shattered.
 
 
reFLUX
19:29 / 27.08.02
i myself don't think binary elements are oposed against each other, but instead work together as an whole. it is just the binary perception of our lives in society that makes us think of pairs as oposites.
 
 
Professor Silly
06:08 / 28.08.02
I would suggest the word "extremes" instead of "opposites."

It inherantly implies the spectrum in-between. "Blinding light" represents one extreme of visual light, "female" represents one extreme of human sexuality,.

Left/Right might seems tricky--the word "opposite" seems to apply here. It usually means 90 degrees from front, since most cities have a grid format. However, on could say "turn 30 degrees to your left" or sumthin', so again the directions at 90 degrees would represent directional extremes, based on a four or six-directional system.

extremes

extremes

...c'mon, say it with me:

extremes
 
 
the Fool
06:24 / 28.08.02
Light/dark duality is entirely dependent on the position of the observer, as is up/down and cold/hot. Hot can be cold for a person used to extreme heat in comparison to a person used to more temperate levels of heat.

Also the 'absolute' of hot and cold can seemingly be never attained. Absolute zero can be approached but not arrived at. Infinite heat only existed at the zero second of the big bang (apparently). Though we appear to be closer to absolute zero of relative cold that the reality folding temperatures of infinite heat.

Opposites appear as horizons of linear scales. Time, position, radiation...
 
 
the Fool
06:26 / 28.08.02
Thus male/female are not opposite.
 
 
Seth
17:43 / 18.12.04
I’ve been thinking about this a lot recently.

Dualism seems to almost invariably be an imperfect model when compared against reality. I’ve been specifically thinking about answering “YES” to the question of whether life is meaningful or meaningless, because it seems to be simultaneously both and neither.

Interested in seeing how people interact with this discussion these days. Any thoughts?
 
 
Horatio Hellpop
18:29 / 18.12.04


I mean, we can have geometrical objects in n dimensions, but still, the graduation of each axis seems defined by some duality, perhaps {less than, greater than} or {positive, negative}, or something like that.

Thus, while we would get a free floating point that is located in a field by an n-tuple, for example, a point in three dimensions such as {1, 4, -2}, each of those elements of the three-tuple have been generated by their location on a single axis as defined by a polarized binary pairing.


although in this instance (armed with a basic understanding of geometrical assumptions) it is possible to identify the various axes on which to locate the point, is there a number (not necessarily a specific number) of axes after which it is no longer useful to identify them? is there are a level of complexity at which point the human brain can no longer successfully analyze? and if so, is the utility of maintaining a conception of binary pairings as oppositions or extremities called into question?

if we accept the view that language is primarily created through the opposition of binary pairing, this may lead to an explanation of some of the frustrations of language.

also, maybe one of the problems with creating and using philosophical ideas/language in discussion might be the lack of an easily identifiable opposite position.
 
 
Horatio Hellpop
19:32 / 18.12.04
i don't mean that everyone has problems with philosophical language, i just mean that complex ideas are often expected to carry an understanding of many things in order to be intelligable (for example the understanding of how the meaning of the word might have changed over time, its position in the larger world of philsophical discourse as a response to other ideas). this makes the language not immediately intelligable to the general public.

should everything be immediately intelligable? i guess i hold the value that language should be as universally understandable as possible.
 
  
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