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Revolution, Compromise, and Consensus

We're The Great Old Ones Now

11:31 / 23.08.02

Political action by those seeking justice and unselfish ends will inevitably founder on the inability to compromise well. My altruism is always more important to me than yours. Self interest and violence are far clearer drives, and thus more functional in the political arena.

grant

13:44 / 23.08.02

Not sure. But "justice" and "unselfishness" do tend to breed unswerving devotion. The more people care, the less they want to compromise, yeah.
Violence might be clearer, but it's also *tiring*.

Regrettable Juvenilia

14:09 / 23.08.02

You're going to have to be a bit more specific about what you want to discuss, Nick. In the meantime: I could hardly disagree more with the first sentence. It strikes me that the tendency of people who claim (rightly or otherwise) to be acting in the interests of justice and the welfare of others to compromise these commitments upon gaining any degree of power or privilege is what fucks the world up time and time again.

8===>Q: alyn

14:11 / 23.08.02

Violence is a shortcut, I guess, that carries its own prices, but there is such a thing as enlightened self-interest, however much discipline, integrity and power it calls for.

Foust is SO authentic

15:00 / 23.08.02

It all depends on how much you're willing to pay for your cause.

Consider the Christian church and abortion. They were fiercely pro-life, and held an all-or-nothing view of Roe v. Wade. They weren't interested in a comprimise, so the pro-choicers won a complete victory. These last few years, however, many Christian leaders (staunch pro-lifers) are saying there should have been a comprimise.

We're The Great Old Ones Now

15:31 / 23.08.02

Fly - it's a reaction to Barbelith's inability to be constructive, even within this limited society. See Sleaze's response to my topic about a Barbelith Agenda, then look around. We're a bunch of screaming, pointless demagogues. The same is true of much of revolutionary and counter-politics. When you get right down to it, we'd rather argue the fine print than try to make it function. And we're far better at arguing with each other than assailing the opposition we hold in common.

It's a frost. I say we all run for council in our respective wards, maybe MEP, and stop screwing about.

As for your suggestion that personal interest takes over...what? Every time? Don't buy it. I think this leadership lark is tougher on the ground than anyone gives credit for. Conflicting proprities etc.

SMS

00:16 / 24.08.02

topic about a Barbelith Agenda

glassonion

14:55 / 24.08.02

a just man's self interest is still justice, and to commit oneself to the act of violence is not necessarily selfish - see the last armed conflict on european soil: many humane people would argue that not enough violence was used by the un, and too late. but old cliches get there by their truth: 'power corrupts', 'road to hell paved with good intentions'. nick don't be too keen to hold power - to do so is to open yourself to the inevitable corruption. Conflicting priorities, which you speak of rather dismissively if i interpret your tone correctly, will without exception prove stronger than you, you'll lose your principles, everyone'll hate you and they'll be right to do so. cna you think of any world leader you don't hold in some disdain?

XXII:X:II = XXX

15:38 / 24.08.02

I think (and that may be half the problem right there) that we think too much about these issues and don't feel nearly enough. That might sound like a load of pants from a Leo Buscaglia seminar, but really, I think deep within us all, we know what needs to happen now. And we can argue tactics and priorities and compromise all we like, but in doing so there's a part of us that knows that we're just killing time so that our opportunity to effect change will pass and we can foist the responsibility onto the next generation, just as the previous generation did to us. As a .PDF poster on www.unamerican.com reads,

THINGS ARE GETTING WORSE AND YOU'RE NOT HELPING.

Small acts are important, but they should happen like breathing. It's time to kick the ball before it rolls foul. Just aim as best you can and fucking DO IT.

Jackie Susann

09:07 / 25.08.02

The problem isn't an inability to compromise, but that people who tell us to compromise almost invariably mean 'do things my way'. For example, the assumption that since we have 'common opposition', we should work together and put aside our petty differences. Meaning: having identified my enemies, I want you to forget about yours and help me overcome mine. Anybody who thinks 'leadership' can overcome our problems obviously is not identifying the same problems I am.

On the other hand, I do not think this means we can't work together. What stops people working together is the assumption that we need to agree (or act like we do) first.

YNH

06:32 / 27.08.02

No more screaming then? No more demagoguery? Are we as individuals and issue oriented folks, served at all by commenting on others engagements in the sociopolitical arena?

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