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THE PRO: Just one question....

 
  

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ONLY NICE THINGS
12:39 / 17.08.02
Can anyone constribute one reason, just one reason, why this should exist?

It doesn't even have to be a *good* reason...

My humble submission:

1) Because fatbeards will buy *any old shit*.
 
 
CameronStewart
16:27 / 17.08.02
I can't even come up with a bad reason.

When preview pages were shown on the WEF a few months back, there were of course dozens of replies saying how "genius" it was, and how much they all couldn't wait for it...

It's at least twice a day I wonder why the hell I even want to work in this industry.
 
 
Tom Coates
12:55 / 18.08.02
Now this is a weird thread - the summary is longer than the actual first post. For anyone who's interested - here's what this thread's about: "When the creators and publishers of comic books insult not only your intelligence but also the evolutionary status of humanity by creating a comic book clearly written by the Jason Lee character in "Mallrats", using all the same jokes..."
 
 
jUne, a sunshiny month
13:22 / 18.08.02
i haven't seen any thing related of this so-calles shit.
who wrote it, what is the publisher ?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
15:49 / 18.08.02
It's a one-shot written by Garth Ennis, and published by Image comics. It's about a prostitute who gets super-powers and joins a team of super-heroes, and really, who can guess the rest yourself.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
15:51 / 18.08.02
sounds alright....
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:30 / 18.08.02
Superman's jism is projected very quickly, and is very dangerous. Batman secretly fancies Robin. The Watcher....likes to watch.

All these and many more gags taken from literally every parodic discussion of superhero sex ever and delivered straight to your door. If that weren't enough, we also discover that pimps are often not nice people, that Superman's resolution not to use deadly force is utopian and impractical, and that, hey, these people dress up in bright colours and fight crime and isn't that a bit kooky.

As a metacomic, though, it is a triumph. You give your money to Garth Ennis, and he fucks you. Just like...well, you see what I mean.
 
 
sleazenation
17:29 / 18.08.02
Well Garth Ennis does excell at knob gags,Its hardly a surprise that a comic about a superpowered hooker sucks spandex flavoured cock. You pretty much know what you are getting before you buy it, and if you then went on to spend money on said title knowing what it was in advance and were then still offened, well, i'd say that is very much your own fault.
 
 
Ganesh
18:33 / 18.08.02
Any Irish characters drinking Guinness in the pub?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:52 / 18.08.02
Of course I didn't buy it, you silly Sleaze. It's not exactly a slow read...
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
19:49 / 18.08.02
its in a sealed plastic bag up here
 
 
The Natural Way
07:58 / 19.08.02
!

?
 
 
DaveBCooper
08:58 / 19.08.02
Wasn’t there something about some of the money for this comic going to the CBLDF or something like that ?
I guess in a way that might be seen as a kind of reason for it to exist. Though just giving your do$h direct to them sounds like a better idea, given the comments people have made (didn’t bother with it myself, the basic premise didn’t interest me).

DBC
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
11:31 / 19.08.02
runce: plastic bag comment confuse/exasperate you?!

meant:

Haus implied he'd read in the shop - I was implying thats not possible in Glasgow as FP had the mag sealed up in a plazzi bag
 
 
The Natural Way
11:37 / 19.08.02
!

?

!


Not you, yawn, but the comic itself. I read the preview bumpf for this one ages ago.....and....

!

?
 
 
Jack Fear
12:16 / 19.08.02
DaveBCooper: No. As far as I'm aware, no proceeds from THE PRO go to the CBLDF.

Instead, the creators co-opted the CBLDF's name and image as an marketing tactic: the tagline was "Comics like this are why the CBLDF exists," or somesuch.

Just like when South Park first aired, it called itself "The reason the V-chip was invented." Which was neither an endorsement of the V-chip nor an implication of any formal connection--simply a crass, if effective, advertising tactic designed to appeal to viewers who wanted to be edgy and subversive. Ooooh.
 
 
DaveBCooper
12:38 / 19.08.02
That the case ? Tch. That’s a bit – no, a LOT – shoddy.

Reason enough not to buy it, regardless of any issues of artistic merit, then.

DBC
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:50 / 19.08.02
Oh, I forgot. What with the all-woman island and everything, Wonder Woman is a bit of a lezzer.

Thus broadening the number of places Ennis has stolen every single gag in the comic from to two: Mallrats and What They Did to Princess Paragon by Robert Rodi. Excellent.

Not quite sure why I am so cross about this. Possibly because ftbeards do genuinely believe this sort of thing to be edgy and subversive, thus making me yet more ashamed of ever setting foot in a comics shop. Possibly because of the question explored on "The Cult author as exchange mechanism", where the consumption of product replaces the appreciation of work (i.e. fanboys will buy any old shit). Possibly because this "Ma's out, Pa's out, let's talk rude!" approach to "adult comics" is depressing in the extreme - the CBLDF was, I rather hoped, there to protect a reviled minority form from censorship, not to raise somebody's public profile among fatbeards by reluctantly defending a comic with no redeeming artistic value whatsoever.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
13:23 / 19.08.02
I'm going to have to buy this now
 
 
Jack Fear
13:28 / 19.08.02
My hate for you is boundless.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
14:07 / 19.08.02
hey: don't hate:

Integrate!

after all:

I'm just summat left outside the house that jack built.
 
 
Jack Fear
14:15 / 19.08.02
Sorry. Channeling my inner Ellis for a moment.

I'm better now.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
14:36 / 19.08.02
Um. It's only a comic? And, um, one written by Garth Ennis (one presumes) in the same style as his 'Punisher Kills The Marvel Universe', ie quickly and without a great deal of thought.

Haus and Jack are clearly not its target audience. And, to be honest, it's not going to appeal to fatbeards nearly as much as it'd appeal to Adam Sandler fans. The Mallrats/Brodie comparison is right on target. Market this in the right way and Image will make a crossover fortune.

It's the 'But this isn't what comics are for!' attitude that tickles me...
 
 
sleazenation
14:51 / 19.08.02
But will it bring the massive stroke mag/comic readership crossover market we've been so desperately waiting for? Can i read it with one hand?

yeah, like jack i'm pretty amused that this has got so many attention - more than i recall ennis' knob gag festooned Dicks and Bigger Dicks ever got - and they produced condoms as promo items (so many jokes...)
 
 
DaveBCooper
14:51 / 19.08.02
Well, it's not what the CBDLF is for, that's for sure.

And Haus raises a very valid point about the 'buying any old tat' tendency. It's what George Lucas is relying on for the pension-fund/kids-to-college scam he calls the new Star Wars films...

DBC
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:58 / 19.08.02
Yes, but Adam Sandler fans aren't going to read it, because Adam Sandler fans are unlikely to find themselves in comics shops. Which is what I think is quite interesting...that even a small comics shop has to represent a range of material that is in one way massively homogenous and on another cover all sorts of different creative basis.

Hooom.

However, to say "well, it's Garth Ennis and he doesn't think very much about what he's writing" is about as useful a defence as "well, it's Ron Howard. He doesn't really consider the emotional complexity of his characters" - inviting as it does the response "Yes. That's why he produces shit". Likewise, "it's only a comic" presupposes that the bar should be set lower for comics, as if, since comics are never going to be much cop, you should probably not expect too much. Which is, admittedly, apparently the attitude of a lot of editors, but may not be entirely healthy in the long run.

"The Punisher kills the Marvel Universe" rocked hard, comparatively, btw.

P.S. It isn't a Brodie comparison, it's *all Brodie's jokes*. Big diff.
 
 
SMS
14:59 / 19.08.02
Reason for this comic to exist: some people enjoy it.

Another one might be that Garth Ennis enjoyed writing it. I don't know if this is true, though.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:05 / 19.08.02
"Dicks" and "Bigger Dicks" I didn't read, since I knew from "For a Few Troubles More" that the characters were badly-drawn, the humour flat and childish and the attraction negligible. On the other hand, Ennis has written some nice stuff about the reactions of "regular guys" to a superheroic universe (see Hitman, which was patchy and derivative but often good fun and nicely handled).

Plus, as far as I can tell, nobody reads Dicks, which may be another reason why this is gettting more attention.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
15:30 / 19.08.02
Well, what I said was that, like 'Punisher Kills The Marvel Universe', Ennis probably didn't put a lot of thought into the story. There's a world of difference between that saying 'Garth Ennis doesn't put a lot of thought into his stories'.

I also said that, if Image marketed the comic well enough, it could be a large crossover hit. This idea, although only sketchy, already presupposes a wider distribution than comics speciality shops, and a wider advertising bandwidth than their regular customers.

I'd also like to point out that Brodie isn't a real person. He's a character in the Kevin Smith movie Mallrats, a fact I believe most of us are aware of. The majority of the jokes and low-concept shenanigans mentioned in this thread are not ones mentioned by Brodie in the film. Therefore they are not 'all Brodie's jokes'. Presumably, in defiance of my old English teachers, we can now read 'Twelfth Night' and cry "but this is STUPID STUPID STUPID! Malvolio would never fall for that STUPID trick! It's completely out of character!"

I also understand that 'Brodie' was created as an amalgam of all of the fatbearded netgeeks Smith ran into when Clerks hit big, only with a cheeky smile and an ostensibly good-looking girlfriend. All the jokes in Mallrats were plundered from a thousand and one internet/comic shop fatbeard conversations about superhero sex and similar topics. I used to work in a comics shop in the early nineties. I have faced the horror and lived. I imagine Ennis has simply done the same thing - gone to one too many conventions or chat rooms/message boards, and decided to make a quick buck by catering to that crowd.

My remark 'it's only a comic' would have held were it a book, movie, ice cream or new flavour of condom... but it's reductive, I agree, so I'll apologise if you like. Mea cunta.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:49 / 19.08.02
You know, I'm beginning to feel that ever disagreeing with anyone is a terrible idea...

Well, what I said was that, like 'Punisher Kills The Marvel Universe', Ennis probably didn't put a lot of thought into the story. There's a world of difference between that saying 'Garth Ennis doesn't put a lot of thought into his stories'.

Good point - I noticed that I had misinterpreted that, but thought I had better leave it rather than try to unpick the threads and get into a tangle. I do think, however, that "TPKtMU" was, from my recollection of it, better-plotted, better-scripted and...well, just far more ingenious. Still very silly, yes, but nonetheless...

In a sense, I can see the comparison - "What does Superman do in bed?" and "How would somebody with no superpowers kill the X-Men?" are presumably both the sort of things fatbeards talk about. But we seem to be arguing about different things. I am sure a comic about a prostitute who develops superpowers could be very good, very interesting and very funny. Likewise a comic taking a new look through parody or other first-amendment protected duplication of the Justice League of America (qv Warrren Ellis about 5 times now, Squadron Supreme, Warren Ellis again...), or indeed about how superhero sex must be a curious thing (Promethea, Brat Pack, Watchmen)...these are all good and just themes.

But this is still a pile of shit, notwithstanding its subject matter, and perhaps demonstrates that there is a reason why fatbeards hang around in comics shops discussing whether Superman could fuck Lois Lane without killing her rather than making six-figure deals with Image, and thus transcribing their fetid imaginings faithfully onto paper may not in itself be a great idea.

Forgive my hyperbole. There are, of course, many good reasons why this comic shoudl exist, all of them basically followinf the principle espoused by "decided to make a quick buck by catering to that crowd" - that fatbeards will buy any old shit.

So, in fact, my first post should have steered away from all that "One good reason" nonsense and said instead something like:

"Is this the biggest pile of shit ever produced under the auspices of a major distributor's "Mature Readers" imprimatur, and is it an undeniable fact that Garth Ennis can do a lot better when he is not cashing in on the fact that fatbeards will buy any old shit?"

Is that better?
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
17:52 / 19.08.02
haus - is this some kind of ironic marketing ploy?

are you working for image?

can you give me two copies please?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:13 / 20.08.02
Mind you, there *is* a possibility that I'm just being all [comic book guy]I think not, Mr. Ennis. Legion of Legions #412 shows up the shallowness of your understanding[/comic book guy]...

Yawn - if I give you the copies, then my paymasters at Image aren't going to make any money out of it, are they? And that's no good for me.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
10:15 / 20.08.02
No, you're right, it's a shit idea, it's an old shit idea, and old shit Ennis should be ashamed of himself. I just wanted to argue with you in a pontificatory stylee. It made me hard and wet. But don't worry, there's still love behind the moist thrustings...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
10:52 / 20.08.02
Oh Good. I get scared that I'm really pissing you off sometimes.

Huggles. And schnoogles.

I am increasingly interested in *why* Jack and I have come out studs-up, as it were. I mean, shit, sexist, offensive comics come out every month, and I don't find myself posting "VAMPI? What a sack of cockjizz!", "The Power Company - who gave this the green light? Mr. Shitty-Head?" or whatever.

Part of which is obviously that I don't read VAMPI or The Power Company (which thereofre may well in fact not be a sack of cockjizz - no offence to the writers and artists of VAMPI), and I did read this, but at the same time it is trying at least to say something non-standard about superheroes, it is at least chronologically assuming that its audience is grown-up...what's not to like.

Possibly it's that it seems like such a plea for attention - "look! Superman's getting a blow job! Somebody mention me in the proper news media, PLEASE!". Possibly that it perpetuates the idea that "mature content" means boobies, which I am loth to celebrate. And possibly just Garth Ennis cash-in fatigue...because he can write better, and he has written better, and between this and "Kev" he does seem to be doing Ennis-by-numbers...guns and cum, basically, in high-cost one-shots (as it were).

Plus, Legion of Legions #412 shows that Wonder Woman could never be a lesbian - she's just waiting until she's married to Steve Trevor, as she explains to Lightning Lass as they face death in the Klorgsmatron.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
11:18 / 20.08.02
I think part of the problem is that Ennis never actually deperately wanted to be a comics writer - he's a screenwriter-wannabe who found himself writing for 2000AD, and thence to Hellblazer, via True Faith, etc. While he's good at it, and has written some exceptionally moving stuff in the past, he's no strident advocate of creator's rights (like Miller), no enthusiastic, nerdy graverobber (like Busiek and Waid), no warm yet snotty revisionist (like David), no Adept Zen Master of the genre (like Moore) and no heavyweight soapboxing champion of De Industry (like his mate Ellis).

Neil Gaiman was a journalist who found himself writing comics because Alan Moore got him work. Garth Ennis was a student drop-out who found himself writing comics because John Wagner got him work. He's not interested in doing anything new or fresh with the genre, because he's not really interested in the genre, except as a way to get work when he needs it (he's still a Name in the insulated and insular world of your local speciality store - GARTH ENNIS, Writer Of Preacher!), and in the superficial ways that it resembles cinema.

He's also one of the contingent in Mature Readers comics who is right on the borderline when it comes to the "Nothing wrong with being sexy" argument (which is usually followed by a reference to PC madness and then strict adherence to Godwin's Law). Unlike others, he knows some of this stuff is problematic, but his "but us a pint" blokiness and reliance on "common sense, mate" tells him it's not worth his time to think about it, much less discuss it. Don't ask me how I know...
 
  

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