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The Scots

 
  

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Justin Brief
12:50 / 13.08.02
A young lady friend of mine, who is English and perfectly charming, has just returned from holiday in Scotland with a Scottish friend. While there, she found almost all of the Scots to be rude, miserable and generally unfriendly.

What of it, you might ask? One person's bad holiday; no reason to start stereotyping an entire nation's national characteristics.

The crux of the issue is that I myself once lived in Scotland, and while listening to her sad story, experienced a disconcerting deja vu. Any attempt at conversation cruelly deflated. Constant references to 'English bastards' from people who've never met any English people. An obsession with the English, bordering on insanity - how often does Scotland crop up in conversation in England? Rarely. How often does England crop up in conversation in Scotland? Often. A dour, depressing, anti-intellectual miasma, hanging over every trip to the pub, every walk in the park. The feeling that Irvine Welsh, far from over-grotesquing, has merely held a mirror up to the finest characters that Scotland has to offer.

Am I just unlucky in Scottish love? Is my friend? Has anyone else shared these experiences? Are the Scots truly as miserable as these limited experiences would suggest? Or are they really the jolly, bekilted, chummy types that postcards and Whisky Galore would have us believe?

The Wicker Man or Gregory's Girl?
 
 
Jack Fear
12:55 / 13.08.02
An obsession with the English, bordering on insanity - how often does Scotland crop up in conversation in England? Rarely. How often does England crop up in conversation in Scotland? Often.

How often does America's privileged white overclass think of the oppressed black underclass?

Hardly ever.

And that's the fucking problem, isn't it?

And how often do the brothers in the ghetto think about The Man?

All the time—and how could they not?
 
 
Sax
12:57 / 13.08.02
Justin, I think you were looking for bernardmanning.com and came here by mistake.
 
 
Justin Brief
13:02 / 13.08.02
Are you really suggesting there's a parallel between the situation of the black poor in America, and the (affluent, compared to many parts of England) Scottish, generally?

I would say that one of the major problems with the American 'man' is that he does think about the opressed black underclass a lot. As a bugbear, for example; see the introduction Michael Moore's 'Stupid White Men'. In fact, see the whole book. Whereas many Scots think of the English as the source of all their social ills, in much the same way.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:34 / 13.08.02
Welcome to the board, Justin. Just in from FadetoBlack?

On the question of the Scots. Yes. They are, of course, all cunts. And wealthy with it. Rich cunts.

Interesting, though, that your two possible settings are either miserable or shortbread-box stereotypes of Highland cheerfulness...is there a way for the Scots to be worthwhile without the kilts? And is it actually meaningful to talk about "the Scots" as a homogeneity?
 
 
Ariadne
13:38 / 13.08.02
Thanks everyone. Did it occur to you, Justin, that some of 'them' might be reading?

And that maybe your attitude is the reason you got such a bad reception in Scotland?

I've no problem with English people, but I do have a big problem with rude and arrogant people. Which is how you're coming across.
 
 
that
13:45 / 13.08.02
Yep. What they said. Just wanted to register my distaste for your charming turn of phrase and wonderfully insightful prejudices. Wonder why we're all getting so snippy with you? Must be the Scottish ancestry coming out, huh? Care to start on Liverpudlians and Welsh people, and make it a fucking hattrick for me?
 
 
Stone Mirror
13:50 / 13.08.02
Jack Fear writes And that's the fucking problem, isn't it?

Actually, I think "the fucking problem" is more that there are people who are so deeply into reductive thinking that they actually believe that the world is neatly divided into a "privileged white overclass" and an "oppressed black underclass".

Maybe that's just me.
 
 
The Natural Way
13:53 / 13.08.02
Or, alternatively, that the situation's exactly the inverse of the one you describe.
 
 
Jack Fear
14:00 / 13.08.02
Or indeed, that "the Scots" and "the English" are monolithic groups, either.

Or perhaps I am, how you say, taking the urine.

Shouts out to everyone who ever wondered why those black folks can't just stop being so darn angry all the time.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:01 / 13.08.02
Or people who are so clever that they don't even have to read anymore...

Jack F said "America", not "The World".

Of course, that makes his statement no less an exemplar of political correctness gone mad. I understand that, on average, black people in America are the only people on Earth with a higher standard of living than the Scots.
 
 
Justin Brief
14:17 / 13.08.02
The English, of course, all enjoying a black tie life of money-burnning, cocktail parties and porsche driving when they're not living in big castles busily opressing their neighbouring countries. Take my friend here from Birmingham, who's just lost his job and possibly his home. How he laughs mockingly at the Aberdonian Oilman, with his house in Royal Deeside surrounded by acres of the most beautiful countryside on Earth. How the Aberdonian Oilman is quick to label him an overprivileged English bastard, and challenge him 'outside' to the Thistle Inn carpark. All the while, my brummie friend protests, 'no, really, we're not all the same', to no avail, as the Aberdonian Oilman's friends join in.

Bleeding on the way to the infirmary, my friend from Brum has the time to consider how easy it is for enlightened minds to drift into generalised, stereotypical and conservative ways of thinking, no matter what 'side' they imagine they're on.
 
 
Sax
14:19 / 13.08.02
Do tell us where you're from, Justin. I bet I've got an insult for wherever it is, seeing as that sort of thing seems to float your boat.
 
 
Jack Fear
14:19 / 13.08.02
Ah, so you do get it.

Well, then, physician, heal thyself.
 
 
Graeme McMillan
14:26 / 13.08.02
"Are the Scots truly as miserable as these limited experiences would suggest? Or are they really the jolly, bekilted, chummy types that postcards and Whisky Galore would have us believe?"

Because, obviously, those are the only two options open to anyone from Scotland.

"How often does England crop up in conversation in Scotland? Often. A dour, depressing, anti-intellectual miasma, hanging over every trip to the pub, every walk in the park. The feeling that Irvine Welsh, far from over-grotesquing, has merely held a mirror up to the finest characters that Scotland has to offer."

Something tells me you didn't get out much when you lived in Scotland.

Where's Yawn when you need him? Plink, crunch.
 
 
Justin Brief
14:31 / 13.08.02
Scotland. Duntocher. Seriously. I grew up there (English parents though, so forever a Sassenach), and it's only on returning with an English accent and English friends ten years later that I've really noticed the characteristics I've mentioned above, and which I wondered if anyone else had noticed.

Now then; I do hope all our little chats in the conversation aren't going to be this granite-faced. Here's some light-hearted comments made about Scotland on that marvellous Idler website. Hah! Hoh!

(No doubt they're all secretly English neo-nazi cultural imperialists, mind you...)

http://www.idler.co.uk/

Crap Town/Village: Stonehaven

Stonehaven is apparently a picturesque old fishing village 15 miles south of the oil capital of Europe, Aberdeen. It is in fact a grotty cesspit infested with seagulls and seagull shit.

Stonehaven is the worst type of Scottish town, full of the 21st Century type of caveman, a drinking, fighting, takeaway eating, womanising, craptacular asshole. It may be useful at this point to point out that Stonehaven was once in the Guiness Book of Records as the town with the most pubs per head of population. In Stonehaven this is something to be proud of. Worst health in Europe? Us?

Stonehaven is a breeding ground for every pathetic little prejudice going: racism, bigotry, sexism, homophobia. You name it, Stonehaven's proud of it. Please print this to let all know of this vile little haven of all that is wrong with Scotland.

Malcolm Petrie



Town/Village: Cumbernauld

Cumbernauld has been crowned Scotland's most dismal town in the competition no area wanted to win. The Lanarkshire town scooped the Plook on the Plinth honour in the annual Carbuncle Awards. Cumbernauld was one of six contenders and beat off competition from ski resort Aviemore, popular wedding location Gretna Green, and Edinburgh's Haymarket Station. See http://www.thecarbuncles.com/

It is a run-down new town with the fun of 1960s concrete innovation and the joy of Thatcherite neglect - and getting worse. It's grey, grim, redundant, aggressive, soulless. The town of 150,000 boasts a half demolished centre (which has been that way for 3 years) that closes after 10.30pm stopping people from crossing from one side to the next and from meeeting up. It has no civic square, the police regularly hunt young people from the streets into tunnels, there are no activites apart from lawn bowls and a swimming pool (the ten pin bowling and ice rink were closed down), only two nightclubs that regularly host bottle tossing contests and streets and areas that are so dangerous and run down, badgers won't go there.

Gary Hayes

GARY HAYES DEFENDED!

I feel that Mr Hayes has described Cumbernauld perfectly. Being a resident for most of my young life, I was growing up in the town when it was looking promising and was a place full of potential adventures, but maybe that was just because I was a kid.

Rumour has it that the half demolished town centre was a backdrop in the film 'Black Hawk Down' but I don't believe it. When I used to look out of my window at night it resembled nightfall in the Charlton Heston flick 'Omega Man' and I always expected to see him speed down the road trying to get home before sundown.

Although in this case it's neds that walked the streets...which is a hell of a lot more scary. When a teenager's stature is measured by the angle that he wears his baseball cap then you know something is wrong.

I remember when there were rumours that a Marks and Spencer store was going to open...it was as if the Messiah had returned. This of course was all bollocks and people were once again disappointed. Then the new Asda opened and I even found myself going to Asda at times because there was nothing else to do. You know it's bad when Asda becomes a local nightspot.

It seems a long time ago when 'Gregory's Girl' was filmed and they lay on the grass in the last scene and danced away laughing. Such innocent times! If that happened today Gregory's face would have been ripped open with a broken bottle from ear to ear by a gang of neds who drink in the park, and Claire Grogan would be screaming in fear while getting molested as Gregory walks around dazed, as blood pisses from his face.

Vinnie Brownlow



Crap Town/Village: Airdrie

Situated in the heart of post-Industrial Lanarkshire Airdrie is famous for two things: Alchohol consumption and football hooligans.

The drink of Airdrie is Buckfast, a 12% proof tonic wine created in Devon by the Monks of Buckfast abbey. When Local MP Helen Liddell campaigned against it, its sale rocketed by 200%. Airdrie now, along with neighbours Coatbridge, accounts for 80% of worldwide Buckfast sales.

Airdrie's sport is football hooliganism, with the notorious Section B. You may remember that minor league Scottish game when the supporters of a club about to go out of business came on the park, broke the crossbar and had the game abandoned. That was the Section B.

For nightlife you cant beat Airdrie's premier ‘Nite Klub’ (sic) the "Double A". With only fluorescent lights (no other ones) and flashing dance floor, รก la Saturday Night Fever, the phrase "Day-Glo Hell" is often thrown in its direction. But local residents are undeterred by this and will be more than happy to help you fit in with the clubs "three scar minimum" dress code.

Culture in Airdrie is colourful to say the least - if by colourful you mean Orange. With the biggest ever Orange Order march held here a few years ago, many a summer evening is filled with the sound of flutes screeching some sectarian ditty. I tend to stay in those weekends. (The Catholics have their Hibs walks as well, just change the sentiment above to Green and you get the idea. I stay in on those weekends as well).

Nothing delights me more than meeting people from new places and have them rip the piss out of me because I come from Airdrie. Nothing delights me more whenever I order a pint and people say "Is that Buckfast or Lager HahAh!".

And how I delight when my boss says "I told my boyfreind you were from
Airdrie, he said to tell you the Section B are a bunch of wanks"

Airdie, crap town.

‘Van_Noir’


To defend Airdrie, or nominate your own crap town, send us an email
 
 
Graeme McMillan
14:35 / 13.08.02
Haaaaang on. You start a thread spouting racist bollocks, and when people call you on it, you reply "I'm only having a larf, look at some other anti-Scottish bollocks and larf at that as well"?

Fuckwit.
 
 
Ariadne
14:35 / 13.08.02
And you could get the same comments about any run-down, poor town in England. I'm not sure what your point is with that?
 
 
Bill Posters
14:38 / 13.08.02
Interesting how the overall feeling on the ass-kicking thread is, 'oh, silly Americans, don't take it so personally', whereas here virtually everyone is leaping to the defense of the Scots. I take it then that crass overgeneralisation bordering on the mythological is recommended for privilaged groups, but forbidden when it comes to a less privilaged group? Just curious...
 
 
Justin Brief
14:38 / 13.08.02
The Scots being a different 'race' to the English? Really? Do we still think in terms of 'race' on the 'lith?
 
 
Jack Fear
14:38 / 13.08.02
There's no hate like self-hate.
 
 
Ariadne
14:42 / 13.08.02
Justin - you're the one who started this by talking about 'The Scots'. So ... are you just trying to stir, or were you trying to say something or ...

This is getting stupid and just sounds like you had a bad time growing up in Scotland. So did I, but I'm Scottish. Get over it or get counselling.
 
 
Graeme McMillan
14:43 / 13.08.02
"The Scots being a different 'race' to the English? Really? Do we still think in terms of 'race' on the 'lith?"

You don't like being called racist? Okay, how about "narrow minded and bigoted" instead?
 
 
Justin Brief
14:44 / 13.08.02
Absolutely, Bill. And to even debate these things, to enquire after other's personal experiences, to suggest any slight hostility on one girl's holiday, is to become one of the Devil's own NAZIs! We must not examine our crass overgeneralisation, but must sweep it under the mighty rug of kneejerk reaction.
 
 
Graeme McMillan
14:49 / 13.08.02
"our crass overgeneralisation"? Our? Seems to me you're the only one here overgeneralising about the Scots...
 
 
Jack Fear
14:51 / 13.08.02
Not sure where you're going with this, Justin. Is your intent to acknowledge that your thesis is a "crass overgeneralisation"—but to continue to defend it anyway?

Or do you just enjoy...



...playing with fire?
 
 
Justin Brief
14:58 / 13.08.02
You got me rumbled. Just testing the waters. Again.
 
 
Justin Brief
14:59 / 13.08.02
"our crass overgeneralisation"? Our? Seems to me you're the only one here overgeneralising about the Scots...

I'm overgeneralising about a hypothetical instance of overgeneralisation. Interesting, isn't it?
 
 
Graeme McMillan
15:00 / 13.08.02
Nope.
 
 
Justin Brief
15:04 / 13.08.02
We can talk about 'Buffy', if you'd prefer.
 
 
The Natural Way
15:05 / 13.08.02
I would.

Count me in.
 
 
Justin Brief
15:06 / 13.08.02
Spike is an interesting example of the current Hollywood vogue for most villains to sport English accents, isn't he?
 
 
The Natural Way
15:09 / 13.08.02
Aaah, but the real action's where Drusilla is.

Now THAT'S an accent.
 
 
Bill Posters
15:15 / 13.08.02
Spike is an interesting example of the current Hollywood vogue for most villains to sport English accents, isn't he?

A VOGUE WHICH I FIND EXTREMELY OFFENSIVE.

Mind you, it makes a change from the Barbelith vogue for villains to sport American accents, I suppose.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:21 / 13.08.02
I wish that argument had been used more often in Nazi Germany.

"I fucking hate the Jews. Bunch of pikey cunts."

"Hang on, that's a really idiotic generalisation!"

"Oh yeah? Yeah? I bet you think I'm a NAZI, don't you? Eh? Eh?"

Godwin's rule, sweethearts. Whoever mentions the Nazis first in any discussion has in effect admitted that their argument is hopelessly flawed and that they are attempting to create a smokescreen.
 
  

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