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Kicking ass (Kicking ass!) Kicking ass is whut we do...

 
  

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Our Lady of The Two Towers
10:02 / 07.08.02
from the NME;
JINGO STAR!

A controversial song that celebrates the allied bombing of Afghanistan has helped propel country singer TOBY KEITH to the top of the US album charts.

The song, 'Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue (The Angry American)' opens 'Unleashed', which sold over 338,000 copies during its first week to hit the top of the country chart.

The song includes the lyrics: "And you'll be sorry that you messed with/The US of A/'Cause we'll put a boot in your ass/It's the American way.". It has sparked debate in the US over whether the highly patriotic tone crossed the line into jingoism.

Keith was removed from the bill of July 4 ABC special in America because the network got jittery over the lyrics.

The singer says he wrote the song in memory of his father. "My Dad was a GI... I wanted [soldiers] to know that any American that supported this song was behind them," he said.

Such is the feeling that Keith has harnessed with the song that his previous album 'Pull My Chain', became the biggest climber of the week leaping from 120 to 89.


Thoughts, feelings? Apparently Bruce 'Born in the USA' Springstein is also releasing an album featuring approval of the bombing sometimes next week. So, a new wave of overtly right-wing music hitting the charts, or just two old duffers (apparently Keith has never got anywhere in the main charts before) finding a new way to get their crap music heard?
 
 
Ganesh
10:17 / 07.08.02
Hmm. If this had happened anywhere other than America, I'd have assumed it to be a pisstake.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
10:35 / 07.08.02
i have to agree with ganesh - those lyrics are making it difficult to type because i'm laughing so hard. and is the new springsteen album really pro-bombing? the interview i read recently (guardian a couple of weeks back) didn't make it sound particularly that way. i thought springsteen was pretty aware that america is fucked, however much he might love the place. i was going to ask if toby keith thought bombing a wedding party was the way to kick ass, but he probably thinks it is.

how about an international bunch of musicians puts together a record: "welcome to the real world/people die every day/now you know what it's like/outside the u s of a"....

(and now you know why i gave up songwriting) in one night alone in the blitz in london, 3000 people were killed. a recent earthquake in afghanistan killed 5000, the list goes on and on. america doesn't seem to have learned a thing from the wtc/pentagon attacks.
 
 
Naked Flame
11:23 / 07.08.02
It's better than the 9/11 tribute track I had to engineer last week. Ugh. That was horrible- a verbatim description of the events in New York, filtered through a BonJovilator to create some truly awful poetry set to cheesy 'epic' poprock. The singer said he'd been inspired to write it 'because he thought there might be a gap in the market' and that 'the television coverage was quite moving, wasn't it?'
 
 
Ganesh
11:39 / 07.08.02
Personally, I'm looking forward to Spandau Ballet reforming to bring out 'Kabul Child' or even 'Across the Landmines' - to say nothing of a potential Boney M smash with 'Bad Bin Laden'. Or similar.
 
 
Ethan Hawke
12:56 / 07.08.02
how about an international bunch of musicians puts together a record: "welcome to the real world/people die every day/now you know what it's like/outside the u s of a".... america doesn't seem to have learned a thing from the wtc/pentagon attacks.

Please moderate your tone if you don't want to look like nimcompoop. Presumably you live in the UK, presumably you're not old enough to remember the Blitz, do deductively are in no better position to know what it's like in the "Real World" than a citizen of the U.S. The arrogance of europeans to presume that they know more about the suffering of the developing world because of, what, geographical proximity, is appalling, and really is another kind of patronizing orientalism at the core.

As for the song mention above, I've never heard it, never heard of it, and I'd hardly take the tone as an indication of what America did or did not "learn" from the WTC attacks. And as for this charming notion of "learning" from the bombings, what was the lesson supposed to be, anyway? Do you think the Israelis are "learning" them Palestinians by blowin' them up and destroying their homes. And vice-versa? The notion that any human society, in history, hasn't either (A) subjugated itself to its attacker or (B) returned violence with violence is foolhardy. People don't alter their behavior when threatened with violence. They either hide it, or magnify it.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
14:38 / 07.08.02
um, i don't think my 'tone' is much different to that of anyone else in this thread.

my parents lived through some of the blitz. my father narrowly missed being killed in one of the bombings. america's attitude to the attacks was fair enough in some respects - shock, horror, sadness, outrage - but it was also surprised. which it shouldn't have been. america (and i'm talking about america the institution, not the individuals) has been acting since then as if the attacks are the worst thing that's happened anywhere in the history of the world. i can't pretend to know what it's like to lose everything and everyone i love in an earthquake but i am aware that it happens. i can't pretend that i know what it's like to live in a place like northern ireland, but i do know that the actions of my country's government has helped create the situation that exists there and i am shocked, horrified, sad and outraged when a terrorist attack happens either there or here in england. but i am not surprised. i've also had to make a dash for it during a bomb scare and enough bombs were going off in london a few years back to make me very aware that it might have been me caught up in the next one. it made me think about why it was happening.

america's continual insistance on both playing the injured innocent party and aggressor is not helping anyone. if "people don't alter their behaviour when threatened with violence", what is the point of bush's actions since 11 september?
 
 
Ethan Hawke
14:50 / 07.08.02
Fair enough, there are others equally culpable. What offended me is the assertion that Americans as a whole are a bunch of unironic boobs (cf Ganesh's "Only in America;" also his comment in another thread that was something like "wanna see fat people? go to America") and that we need cultured Europeans to teach us a lesson in how to treat other people (or, you know, people with bombs to do it).

As for: has been acting since then as if the attacks are the worst thing that's happened anywhere in the history of the world. i can't pretend to know what it's like to lose everything and everyone i love in an earthquake but i am aware that it happens - Americans aren't aware that it happens? It is simply not true that Americans don't care about the suffering of people in other countries, and I resent the implications. The US Gov't not giving a large enough share of global humanitarian aid does not mean that the people of America don't know/care about tragedies around the world. Private philanthropy is alive and well, even if public isn't.

And of course America is going to act like it's the worst thing that ever happened. It happened in our neighborhood. You said yourself that you've experienced bomb scares - it's different when it happens to you. It may not be rational, it may not be the ideal way of reacting, but it certainly is natural.

Please understand I'm not trying to flame you here - I just want to make people aware that some of their reflexive attitudes towards Americans are fucked up.
 
 
Ganesh
15:08 / 07.08.02
I certainly wouldn't claim that Americans "on the whole" are stupider or indeed fatter than their UK counterparts. I would say that, presumably as a result of the US's relative size, geographical and political isolationism and general insularity, the fattest Americans are likely to be fatter than the fattest Europeans - and the stupidest Americans are likely to be spectactularly so...
 
 
MJ-12
15:30 / 07.08.02
As opposed to the stupidest Britons, who will be getting a group rate on their trip to Stockholm to receive their collective Nobel Prize.
 
 
Bill Posters
15:38 / 07.08.02
I just want to make people aware that some of their reflexive attitudes towards Americans are fucked up.

Well, a vicar in the UK was being investigated by the police for "inciting racial hatred" towards our bretheren over in America recently... In case anyone had forgotten, the UK has backed the USA throughout TWAT, and 'we' were an intended target of S11, apparently. It would be nice if we could avoid an ironic outbreak of us and them thinking here. Fucksake, one poster on this board lost a friend to anthrax. Americans are people too, believe it or not.
 
 
Ganesh
16:52 / 07.08.02
Put it this way, MJ-12: we think 'Big Brother's Jade's negligible grasp of world geography is unusual...

Perhaps the US's proportion of estupidos is simply more voluble?
 
 
MJ-12
17:14 / 07.08.02
"We" being the people you usually associate with, or "we" being the public at large? I recall an interview with a British woman during the Falkland War in which she stated words to the effect of "Argentina will be expelled from the Falklands, even if it means we must burn Rio de Janeiro to the ground."
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
17:18 / 07.08.02
Or, to put it another way, if t.o.d.d. wants to compare the Two Towers to say, the destruction of Coventry, then he's managed to threadrot this argument extremely quickly.

In the extremely unlikely event that Saddam had a chemical weapon that he could launch at the UK, it's not going to do me any good to tell the little anthrax spoors whether or not I support American's actions in the world. When I talk about America I talk about a collective entity, a semi-mythical entity comprised of it's people but at the same time more than it's people. In the same way that other people may address 'men' as a group, or 'the people of Ireland'.

All the American's I've met have been charming and I'm sure you are lovely too. America the entity is a vast, blundering giant, of the kind that accidently sits on people's houses in old cartoons.
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
17:21 / 07.08.02
You can probably sum up a good deal of American ignorance in two words: public schooling. Of which I am a product, so I don't really have much room to speak...
 
 
Ethan Hawke
17:47 / 07.08.02
When I talk about America I talk about a collective entity, a semi-mythical entity comprised of it's people but at the same time more than it's people.

And this entity is apparently stupid, fat, and lacking a sense of irony. What if I talked about the "entity" of China as "inscrutable, with a small WMD dick (thx, Nick for that image)"? If I made statements about "British people based on Big Brother, Fatboy Slim, and Maggie Thatcher, would ya'll like that? You've just proved my point. Talk about policies of the government not the "mindset" of the people. When you're talking about "America" and "Americans," you're talking about me. And my home, and my wife and kids.
 
 
Ethan Hawke
17:48 / 07.08.02
God, tell me if I'm taking this too personally.
 
 
Grey Area
18:16 / 07.08.02
I'm not god, but I think you are taking this a bit too personally.

Stereotypes are rarely flattering. I've had to spend my life dealing with the German Stereotype of cold, clinical, efficient industrialists with no sense of humour and a merc in the garage. The image of British people you pulled up as an example is in fact used more often than you think (usually with the addition of beer-swilling football hooligans/Ibiza-invading ravers). That's what stereotypes of nationalities do...they accentuate everything everyone else sees as the negative elements of a nation's psyche. To take them personally is pointless. It's like yelling "Don't tell me what to do!" at a No Left Turn sign.

Back on thread subject: I would like to draw people's attention to some of the songs sung by popular performers in Britain during WW2. Same message as this American gentleman's single basically, except the audience didn't happen to occupy an entire continent. Before we all jump on the "Look At The Dumb Americans" bandwaggon, let's make sure our own nations haven't been guilty of the same behaviour. Then let's go have a pint and a good laugh at each other, OK?
 
 
Ganesh
18:30 / 07.08.02
Mmm. 'Take the piss out of the Empire', in particular, seems to be a longrunning historical tradition...
 
 
w1rebaby
18:34 / 07.08.02
As a counterpoint, does anyone remember the recent stuff about a country singer called Steve Earle who released an "anti-war" album called Jerusalem in the states, in the face of a lot of criticism?

---

In describing, Jerusalem, Steve Earle's newest CD and his sixth album in six years, Earle says, "This is a political record because there seems no other proper response to the place we're at now. But I'm not trying to get myself deported or something. In a big way this is the most pro-American record I've ever made. In fact, I feel URGENTLY American. I understand why none of those congressmen voted against The Patriot Act, out of respect for the Trade Center victims' families. I've sat in the death house with victims' families, seen them suffer. But this is an incredibly dangerous piece of legislation. Freedoms, American freedoms, things voted into law as American freedoms, everything that came out of the 1960's, are disappearing, and as any patriot can see, that has to be opposed."

"John Walker's Blues, which deals with John Walker Lindh, the erstwhile Marin County teenager and admitted Taliban fighter. Opening with the lines, "just an American boy, raised on MTV…I seen all the boys in the soda pop bands and none of them looked like me" and finishing with a recitation of Sura 47, Verse 19 of the Qur'an, Earle wrote the song as the newspapers clamored for Walker to strung up for treason. For Steve, the issue was a little more complicated than that.

(full article, scroll down for interview)
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
18:37 / 07.08.02
But t.o.d.d., this thread started due to the millions of American's who have bought a single in which a guy sings about how it was a good thing to bomb innocent people, then about other musicians songs. It was you that decided to make it personal, to make it an attack on you rather than the Body America as a whole.

And if I am using a stereotype, at least it's a stereotype that is up-to-date and informed by various different news sources. Yours would appear to be several years out of date. But then, that's American news media for you... runs away giggling
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
18:38 / 07.08.02
I know exactly what you're saying, t.o.d.d. That tendency of speaking of countries as masses of people who speak as one voice has been bugging me for a while now. It abstracts things too much. I think it's dangerous to say that the U.S. does this or Afghanistan said that because, although we all logically know that the teeming masses of the U.S. didn't get together and do this and that the few people left in Afghanistan that we haven't yet slaughtered didn't get together and speak in unison, people hear it enough that they might start to believe it on a deeper level. If the news said that Afghanistan said this, then those durn Afghanis must all believe it. It's a real easy way to foster prejudice and I'm sure that the news media have their reasons for using those methods.

Me, I try to refrain from making any kind of broad generalization about any large group of people. I know that there's a negative image about the U.S. that's fairly widely held throughout the world. To a great extent, I share this view, but my ire is reserved for and expressed towards what I see as the shitty institutions w/in the U.S.: the government, big business, the shadowy people who loom large over things. I recognize the fact that, although they may be the minority, there are a great number of people who aren't at all happy w/the way this country is going and I think it's terribly unfair to lump them (and me) into a vague mass of people who are America! and who are complicit in the actions of America!.

I believe in the ideals that the country was built on, and I think the country is headed in the complete opposite direction. If Bush is re-elected (and it looks like he might be), I'm most likely leaving the country because I'm tired of watching this place crumble around my ears. I think it's fair to say that I am not America! as it is usually perceived by those outside of the U.S. and I can assure you that I am not the only one who feels this way.
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
18:48 / 07.08.02
But, uh, on the more on-topic front... That song mentioned in the first post reminded me of the Mr. Show skit where NASA was going to blow up the moon just to prove that they could, and they showed a clip from a video by a country singer commenting on the event: "Look out, moon, America's gonna getcha/Gonna go ka-boom, was nice to have metcha/You don't mess around with God's America!" Some spot-on pre-emptive satire there, I must say.
 
 
Ganesh
19:01 / 07.08.02
Fridge: yeah, my first post in this thread (sort of) namechecked some of pop's stupider 'protest' songs...
 
 
Ethan Hawke
19:02 / 07.08.02
But t.o.d.d., this thread started due to the millions of American's who have bought a single in which a guy sings about how it was a good thing to bomb innocent people, then about other musicians songs. It was you that decided to make it personal, to make it an attack on you rather than the Body America as a whole.

Millions? Your article says 300,000+. Are there lyrics about how nice it is to bomb people? The lyrics the article quotes are kind of abstract, though, of course, distasteful.

The article also points out that a TV Network, which in general are cravenly beholden to the status quo, jettisoned this guy from their TV bill because of the lyrics. Now, if ABC (owned by Walt Disney and Co.) thinks that this song is beyond the pale for a mainstream audience, how is this quintessentially American?

And if I am using a stereotype, at least it's a stereotype that is up-to-date and informed by various different news sources. Yours would appear to be several years out of date. But then, that's American news media for you... runs away giggling

Oh please. One more comment like that, and I'll start typing in spoilers for popular US TV shows the UK's a few series behind in.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
19:54 / 07.08.02
"Mr. President! Mr. President! What do you say to those part of the world who call your plans to bomb Iraq, arm the Israeli's, ignore the Kyoto environmental treaty and spend millions on a discredited missile defense system while encouraging your own citizens to spy on each other 'short sighted'?"

"Well, I guess we'll just have to remind them that Buffy Summers *dies* at the end of season 5 of Buffy. If that don't work, we'll just tell them how the first episode of season 2 of 'Smallville' plays out..."
 
 
MJ-12
20:01 / 07.08.02
If only we knew what shows Saddam Hussein liked, then we'd have some real leverage.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
20:53 / 07.08.02
'The English are moral, the English are good
And clever and modest and misunderstood.

And all the world over, each nation's the same
They've simply no notion of playing the game
They argue with umpires, they cheer when they've won
And they practice beforehand which ruins the fun!

The English, the English, the English are best
So up with the English and down with the rest.

It's not that they're wicked or natuarally bad
It's knowing they're foreign that makes them so mad!'
 
 
Ganesh
21:03 / 07.08.02
I hear Saddam's more into 'Popular'.
 
 
Slim
04:02 / 08.08.02
I'd just like to point out that Springsteen's new album is in no way "pro-bombing". Also, his music is far from crap.
 
 
the Fool
05:59 / 08.08.02
I'd just like to add "The War Against Terror = TWAT" [giggle] It's its own inbuilt joke, genius!
 
 
Bill Posters
10:08 / 08.08.02
We" being the people you usually associate with, or "we" being the public at large?

Well that's just it isn't it MJ? The ambiguity of meaning in the 'we' is just what we're dealing with here. I am not the public at large, and have spent many a day on anti-war demos waving banners with slogans like 'Not In My Name', but just as Misha says, that won't mean much in the face of an anthrax spore. (Assuming anthrax spores have faces.)

God, tell me if I'm taking this too personally.

%Now since when has the political ever been personal or the personal political?%

Maybe I am still smitten with post-colonial guilt (I know Haus would say so), but I still think that people are people in reality, not national/political stereotypes. However, as Jay McKinerney has it, "If you intend violence, stick with the type."
 
 
Loomis
10:13 / 08.08.02
This pro-bombing singer will surely change his tune once he's heard George Michael's scathing musical attack on the war ...
 
 
Ganesh
12:02 / 08.08.02
If people are people, tell me why should it be: Us and Them should get along so aw-ful-lee?
 
 
Loomis
12:07 / 08.08.02
Well he ain't no Moz, but we love 'im just the same:

Nine nine nine getting jiggy,
People did you see that fire in the city?
It's like we're fresh out of democratic,
Gotta get yourself a little something semi-automatic yeah...
 
  

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