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Signs ***spoilers!***

 
  

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videodrome
15:01 / 12.07.02
****the spoilers are small, but if you want to know nothing at all, it's better not to read this****






I saw the new flick by M. Night Shyamalan yesteday - the benefits of having a theatre-managing friend- and was kinda astounded to find it very good, much like an updated Close Encounters. He's talked about being a fan of Spielberg and it showed in Unbreakable with his approach to the nuclear family. He continues that here but unlike Spielberg it's not saccharine and irritating and as with his prior films, the whole thing is played towards character. While Spielberg was trying to capture wonder in his film, Shyamalan aims for the adult's replacement for childlike wonder - faith. That focus, coupled with the emphasis on character, make the film work.

Mel Gibson and Joaquin Phoenix, two actors I don't like very much, perform convincingly and, more important, don't overact and chew the scenery. The kids are good, with the new Culkin kid fine as the son and the daughter played by Carol Anne 2002 - more shades of Spielberg, the producer of Poltergeist. These people feel like a family without any of the forced closeness favored by Spielberg.

I think the thing that most got me was that the film was actually creepy and even frightening in places - I think the last time I jumped and yelled because of a film was Alien, which this film pays a bit of reference to. There's also nods to Night Of The Living Dead and, obviously, War Of The Worlds. There are aliens in the film and they're handled well - seen fleetingly or fragmented though reflections or windows - again the recollections of Alien and Jaws. But when we do see them, it still works, which is a credit to the film. Shyamalan has wisely not gone over the top in the creature design - the menace is in the way they move and act, rather than in extra folds of rubber mask.

My complaint is that a couple of characters have traits which are essentially devices. One of these is handled well, and ends up being a non-issue, because it's fully integrated into the script, used to define and develop character. But one character in particular has a couple of defining bits that seemed suspect from the outset, and when the way in which they play into the conclusion was revealed I disappointed; Shyamalan had needed a couple of things to make the conclusion work, and while the basic ideas are fine, the handling is clumsy and distracting. I'll go into more detail when other people have seen the film.

But while that detracted from the film, the scripts problems are not on par with those of Minority Report. This feels like a fairly well-unified whole, and it's an effective film despite a couple of hiccups.
 
 
Big Furry Bear
15:25 / 12.07.02
Hi Videodrome

I'm kinda excited by your post. Wasn't a huge fan of The Sixth Sense but really dug Unbreakable.

I really like the pace of Shyamalan's films so far and he does, as you say, build menace incredibly skillfully.

I was looking forward to Signs but concerned that he wouldn't be able to manage the tension in a situation where I guess basically there are or are not Aliens crop-circling Gibson's field.

I guess from your post that he does this quite well and that the slow playing out of the faith issues is what draws you in?

(Don't give too much away mind - not sure when it's out here in the UK. Soon I hope.)
 
 
videodrome
15:59 / 12.07.02
I like the pace of his films quite a lot - it's what first got me going in The Sixth Sense. I was lucky enough to see that film way before I knew there was an ending to know or give away - I happened across it before all the talk started.

In Signs the pacing works very well - it allows him to play between the development of character (with the faith issue) and the portions that focus on tension and menace, eventually managing to combine the two.

It's not even out in the states for two weeks - 2 Aug. I saw a trade screening because I have a car and can drive my friend to the theatre where he can get us in. IMDB has the UK release pegged as 13 Sept, which blows.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
22:38 / 29.07.02
I'll put what I said in the other thread I opened without knowingof this one: hope this movie is not formulaic and that I can't guess the ending after only 15, 20 minutes.
 
 
Tom Coates
11:40 / 30.07.02
I'm profoundly interested in how this film is going to pan out - I loved Sixth Sense when I saw it - but that's probably because I saw it at a very very early screening - weeks before it came out in the cinema - and it wasn't spoiled for me in the slightest. Unbreakable is another movie that I completely loved - although I noticed that an awful lot of other people weren't even vaguely interested in it. Signs has been over-trailed, if you ask me. They seem to have been advertising it for years. But I'm still really looking forward to it...
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
05:39 / 03.08.02
Worth the wait. Yes, this was some scary shit. And movies don't usually scare me. I was on the edge of my seat through a good deal of the movie, though. Very effective in all respects, including those which are less fantastic (because it's not really about the aliens, see). I thought that the full-frontal alien shot at the end was unnecessary, though, and detracted from the impact of those that we hadn't really seen throughout the rest of the movie.

Anyway. My fears that Shyamalan was a one-hit wonder (not a fan of Unbreakable, but knowing many who are, I might have to give it a second go) have been quelched. Possibly my favorite movie thus far in what has been a fairly lackluster year for cinema, IMO. Go, be scared, have fun.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
11:07 / 03.08.02
I'm very interested to see this but Unbreakable... I thought there was a severe problem with Samuel L. Jackson's character. I'm hoping this one won't have a major flaw.
 
 
Harold Washington died for you
13:34 / 03.08.02
Saw the movie in a packed house last night. Lots of laughs, lots of screams, a bit of crying. Instead of the super-duper twist ending M.Night has become famous for, this picture is gently torqued throughout its length, creating a very smooth viewing experience. I will not say anything else about the movie itself, except to go see it. And if you meet someone trying to talk about it in detail put your fingers in your ears, scream real loud, and run away.
I give it a whole shitload of stars.

I can talk about the trailers though. Started with Disney's The Santa Clause 2 (about as dumb as it sounds) and an animated Robert Louis Stevenson's 'Treasure Island' sci-fi epic called Treasure Planet (space pirates look like fun, even if it they are for kids). After that was the new Star Trek movie Nemesis (lots of action and retro looking Enterprise. Trek fans will love it, everyone else will roll their eyes). Then came a very brief teaser trailer for Solaris with George Clooney, and finally Steven King's Dreamcatcher with Morgan Freeman (no opinion, looked scary enough but nothing grabbed me).
 
 
Tamayyurt
16:39 / 03.08.02
I loved this movie and yeah, it was very smooth.

The end wasn't a twist though? I don't know... certainly not a twist like Sixth sense or unbreakable. Can't really talk about this until more people have seen it.

Go. Now. It's fantastic!
 
 
Persephone
02:52 / 07.08.02
Okay, I now go see movies purely on videodrome recommendations.

Overall I enjoyed the movie, it was very scary. Besides Spielberg, I thought there were quite a few Hitchcock touches... at one point I was thinking, "and here we are at Dan Fawcett's farm."

Though I think there was one rather gaping hole... which I can't talk about in this thread, I suppose. Pity, because I have a very good funny for it.

*sighs, sits on hands*

I haven't seen Unbreakable. Maybe I'll go rent that.
 
 
Utopia
15:57 / 07.08.02
***spoiler***


ummmmmmmmm...so is it possible for life to exist without water? good thing it didn't rain. it would suck to travel millions of light years and be defeated by a slight drizzle, or humididty (it did take place on the east coast in the summer...). one would think these aliens would have some kind of containment suit. but alas. and yes, joaquin phoenix was rather....um ok. he is forgiven for Gladiator.
 
 
Planet B
20:57 / 07.08.02
I still don't get it. I loved Sixth Sense, thought Unbreakable was okay, but could not stand this movie. Maybe its the moralizing BS and the aforementioned logical problems with the plot. Maybe I just like my alien movies to actually have more than 2 aliens and a TV shot of space ships in it. Maybe because it all basically takes place in this farmhouse (with the exception of a handful of scenes). Oh yeah, and I like to actually be scared in a supposed scary movie. I felt almost no tension from this one and can't really figure out how others did.
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
23:38 / 07.08.02
***continuation of spoiler***

Yes, utopia, this has become a big laughing point among me and my friends. It's like Earthlings trying to conquer a planet where everything (including the beings that they're trying to conquer) is made of of 75% cyanide and bringing no protection whatsoever. I mean...the aliens were technologically advanced enough to construct spacecraft that would carry them the considerable distance to our planet. Did they not think to do a little research beforehand?
 
 
Persephone
00:18 / 08.08.02
Ayuh, that was my funny. After the movie...

P: Isn't it kind of Homer Simpson for these aliens to go invade a planet that's 75 percent water?
Husb: D'oh!

But I think I liked the rest of the movie because of my magicky tendency to believe in synchronicity and the unseen in general, whereas Husb does not and felt very imposed on.

I have more to say... but shouldn't we hang a bigger SPOILER sign outside the door before we go much further?
 
 
Thjatsi
09:15 / 08.08.02
A lot of spoilers are contained in my response.



I think the aliens suffered from an acute case of velociraptor syndrome. That is, their level of lethality is inversely proportional to their proximity to any innocent, doe-eyed, child. For example, notice that the asthmatic ten-year old can survive a double exposure to the alien poison gas, while they somehow managed to kill off a significant portion of the human population with it. Or, notice that one of the aliens is strong enough to jump on top of the roof when acosted by two adults. However, when an axe is wedged against the basement door while two kids are around, the aliens freak out and decide they have to find another way in.

That said, I really liked this movie. The pantry scene scared the crap out of me. I enjoyed the humorous touches, and I thought the aliens looked great.
 
 
Old brown-eye is back
11:40 / 08.08.02
Here be spoilers.

I loved it right up until the end which, considering what we're dealing with here is life on other planets, pre-destination and questions about the existence of God, seemed hugely pat. (At least compared to something like Magnolia)
And another thing: as a narrative device, what exactly were the ETs for? Was there no easier way for old Mel's character to find redemption, other than through the aliens landing?

Better than Unbreakable, though.
 
 
videodrome
00:54 / 10.08.02
Have seen it again, so my lady could have a look.

Couple of things.

First, as much as it is like Close Encounters, as some have hinted it's actually far more like The Birds. The Hitchcockian touches were apparent in my first viewing, but were far more attention-grabbing this time. Shyamalan plays the tension/comic balance far more like Hitch than Spielberg. Along with the Birds comparison goes the fact that, like The Birds isn't about Birds, and (arguably) Night Of The Living Dead isn't really about the living dead, this isn't about Signs - I mean, aliens.

The aliens are incidental. Could be anything. It's unfortunate that so many people are going to see this film expecting a picture packed with green guys, but then again, I think it's good that many people will see this, so I'd rather them see it and come out disappointed than not go in the first place.

OK, it's true - the aliens couldn't be anything. They kinda have to be aliens to go with the whole faith in the skies thing. But I can live with that. I like the faith issue even though it's not one I put stock in, as the film has it. But most of all, Ruth, the aliens had to be there to put your ass in the seat. Maybe not yours, but most of the those which will sit in seats in front of this film, anyway. They put you in the seat, but then the real question is: how do the poeple in the film deal with their presence? I'm glad there's no investigation of the aliens' motives, that all the real 'info' we get is from the TV. All sorts of thoughts bubble up around the fact that so much of the views of the alien are via TV screen. And I love that I'm not alone in seeing a huge resemblance to the 'birthday party' footage and the old Bigfoot film, judging by other reviews I've read.

I agree that the ending is too pat and that it's a shame that the aliens exhibited behaviour like Thjatsi's V-syndrome. I don't like the water thing. At all. And I don't like her 'dreams' thing. At all. And I really don't like them together. But I'm just fine with the asthma thing, and the way it plays into the end, alien defense and all. I could probably even live with the water thing if he had jettisoned the 'dreams' bits of the script, which felt like first-draft holdovers.
 
 
Utopia
02:05 / 10.08.02
thjatsi:"...your views interest me, i'd like to subscribe to your newsletter..."
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
03:12 / 10.08.02
Having seen The Birds, Close Encounters, and Signs all w/in the last month, I have to say that the homages in Signs stuck out like a sore thumb. I see the obvious Night Of The Living Dead comparisons, but I think that the suspense was more similar to that in The Birds, wherein the Other wasn't just a mass of lumbering beasts in search of brains but a more calculating and therefore unpredictable menace.

Close Encounters hasn't held up well at all for me (Seemingly value-free alien contact that made me wonder what the point of it all was. The whole movie seemed to be more or less about the aliens' attempt at communicating an intergalactic "Hi! We're beings from another world! Aren't we something?". At least the Signs aliens seemed to have some reason for being here.), so we'll have to see if Signs usurps its throne as the "grey/green alien emigration as catalyst for faith" touchstone for future generations.
 
 
Thjatsi
09:14 / 10.08.02
Utopia: I'm confused now, what do you mean?
 
 
Mr Tricks
18:48 / 12.08.02
Spoilers Probably...

Just saw it yesterday... Had a Great TIME!!!

Good humor & great suspense!!! The Pantry scene was excellent... The theater was packed & the screams were LOUD for that scene!!!

The Hitchcock influences were there right from the opening credits!!! & it was nice to see the Director actually have a significant role in the film/story.

I thought it was very well acted! Mel Gibson was hilarious whilst genuine... Same with Joaquin & of course the Kids... and the Dawgs!!! Sigh... nothing like a Dog to stur up feelings of dread/fear & tragedy...

The family felt much more Real than Spielberg's cardbord cutouts... and it was nice to have the movie based much more on their experience rather than another Alien Invasion. The biggest drawback in the opinions of those of us who went that day was the basic Xenophobia implicit in the storyline.... Though the true theme held the transendence of it & the recognition of a greater pattern in the world... it could be surmised that the aliens needed to invade & harvest humans so that Mel's character could regain faith...(Reminded me a bit of Donnie Darko in that "god" would create a whole world wide catastrophie for the sake of one worshipper's faith)...Still, the fostering of the fear of the "other" just seems in poor taste these days...

That aside, it was fun imagining Mulder & Scully running around trying to figure out the water thing... interesting that it would "3 cities in the Middle East discover a primitive method of fighting off the Aliens"
I imagine these Aliens, Green with Claws & Predator-esque invisibility would be a lower warrior cast, rather than the actual space pilots. But that's just me...

They were bastards though... that one Pantry Alien holding a major grudge. At that point I was hoping for the movie to move in a more transcendent direction playing the preacher's Faith as the tipping point rather than the premonition of his dying wife... "Swing Away"

touching though; but a more "pacifist" solution would have been very in keeping with the twist-style ending of his previous flicks...

the water thing remined me of the War of the Worlds... & I suppose those Aliens could be just as arrogant as any human Military Industrial Complex in overlooking such a low-tech defence... So much more appealing than uploading a computer virus into their onboard computer network...

Still, when oh when with the earth be visited by an Alien Race that's not only cool, but down to hang out a bit and party with us humans?!?!
 
 
Utopia
00:56 / 14.08.02
thjatsi: nothing at all. i found your statement quite funny, and blatently stole a line from the Simpsons to illustrate. but if you do have a newsletter, of any sort, including ones that you may have found in a dumpster or a stormdrain, i would gladly have a look at them. ahem. carry on.

(ten post limit or not, still i ramble on...)
 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
07:29 / 17.08.02
Zaphod Beeblebrox and Ford Prefect liked to hang out and party with humans.
 
 
Bear
07:25 / 16.09.02
I saw this last night and loved it, hell even my mum and dad liked it. As mentioned already very Hitchcock especially the main theme at the start!

But yeah M. Night is a winner he seems to have figured out the whole "things are scarier when you don't see them" idea - as mentioned here with the pantry scene and all the shots of people shining torches but with us looking at them rather than what they're looking at also the dog outside and the smashing glass upstairs (which sounded great in the cinema)

Although M. Nights cameos seem to be getting bigger, maybe he'll go for a staring role next time.

Anyone know what he's doing next?
 
 
Jack Fear
11:42 / 16.09.02
... maybe he'll go for a staring role next time.

I love this typo.

I have visions of an unbroken two-shour shot of M. Night Shyamalan, staring into the camera.
 
 
The Strobe
08:23 / 27.09.02
Caught Signs last night, and was pleasantly surprised by how good it was. I had a few issues - it really wants to be a great film about faith, but it's actually a great film about aliens, and pretty crappy on faith. I found that (spoilerspoilerspoiler) unreflected shot of the alien at the end pretty amusing, because I just couldn't bear the design, or the breathing, or the way they moved. That said, when you see just the claws, or the reflection of them - that near-final shot that makes the entire audience JUMP OUT OF THEIR SKIN (something I'd never experienced in a cinema, the collective gasp) - that works REALLY well.

The friend I saw it with, who isn't a film buff in the way I am, made an interesting point: he said he really liked it, and that was partly because it felt... well, to paraphrase, "well crafted". And I got that feeling too - there's a real amount of care that's gone into it, evident in all the little details. I loved the wide-eyed, fixed camerawork, that makes the film at times look like a painting. That's enhanced by Gibson and Phoenix's very blank facial expressions. And I agree with videodrome - neither are my favourite actor, but they brought off some good performances. Hell, even the running-around-the-house bit was genuinely funny.

The other thing I thought was REALLY excellent was the script. The mannerisms, the patterns of speech Shyamalan observes... they come out really well. It's a long while since I've seen kids speak like kids, not like some portrayal of kids where they're more stupid and cute than they actually are. The Culkin kid is fantastic - he's not just more talented than his lepping brothers, he's also a surprisingly important and intelligent role. And you know that from the moment he kills the dog. Similarly, some of the adults have great lines. There's one superb line on faith, despite the clunkiness of it as a plot device, and it doesn't come from Gibson. It's from Phoenix, in the army register office, when he says to the kid mocking his strikeout record "It felt wrong not to swing". That's really important; Gibson doesn't want to swing at God, but he feels wrong doing it. I LOVED that as a line, because it's so innocuous, and it has more relevance as the movie goes on. By contrast, I think the worst line in the movie, without question, would be "a cheeseburger. With bacon. Extra bacon.". Bleuch, give me a BUCKET.

So yeah. Really rather good. I do wish sound effects guys would going "hey, if I make the dog bark REALLY loud here, the cinema will jump!", though. It's just not fair. Also: didn't really like Shyamalan as an actor - it's just like he's wanting to get TOO involved with the movie. Other hates? Oh, not keen on the faith thing, and hatedhatedhated that final flashback where you see Mel talking to his wife. Unnecessary. But, (like my favourite mainstream movie of the summer, Minority Report), surprisingly intelligent for a multiplex movie. And thus good.
 
 
The Natural Way
08:40 / 27.09.02
I cannot believe this thread. Stop giving the narcissistic fuck yr money and time YOU COMPLETE AND UTTER WEIRDOS. His films are SHIT. I do not have to explain.
 
 
Seth
11:09 / 29.09.02
runce: nice contribution.

A wee bit concerned that he's now made the same film three times. Ingredients - family relationships in the aftermath of huge trauma; children acting weird; adult coming to/regaining faith; some dark scary shit to make it more compelling. I really don't want to see it all a fourth time.

The Shy's use of sound was excellent, though. It wasn't just the volume, as Paleface points out. The sound was emaculately reproduced and enhanced throughout, I was left marvelling at the sheer effort they must have gone to with mics and EQ. The effects were compositions in themselves: there were so many moments where a more musical score was ommited as too obvious a signifier. The loud jump moments usually came after an extended period of sound-effects-as-score, a crescendo intended by Shyman as opposed to an hyperactive soundman. Best use of sound that I can remember since the Exorcist.

I can't be arsed to spell the man's name, though.
 
 
The Natural Way
08:59 / 30.09.02
I don't know a single person that liked 'Signs' or 'Unbreakable'. As far as I'm concerned, the man makes films that are one step up from the shitty, "moody", thriller (w/ Morgan Freeman), and he gets all this completely undeserved adulation. What do WE get? High concept Hollywood with an, "OOOo!", twist at the end. See 'Unbreakable' for the shittest "twist" ever.

And as for 'Signs':

Pranny tells me, that when he went to see the fucker, he actually idly tossed the idea about in his head that Mel Gibson's wife may have meant "beat an alien round the head with a baseball bat!" when she croaked "Swing Meryl, swing!", but then discarded the idea thinking it too ridiculous... And then, like the rest of us, he was left wondering what fantastic event would invest her words, and Mel's oh so mechanical and accidental life (great characterisation there. Deep.), with meaning. And guess what? Beatings.... And WATER? Oh, yeah, they may be afraid of the water. Pour water on it. And the master-race can't open doors.

Disfunctional family! See how they say the right thing to each other all the time (y'know "when it really counts!"), and the kids, like Haley Joel Osmond in 'Sixth Sense', just make you want to puke. No...urrgh..real drivel.

And then his massive name (cause he's an AUTEUR, don't you know) and the stirring music as the credits roll. I was SO moved it hurt.
 
 
Bear
10:36 / 30.09.02
You know invading aliens don't necessarily have to be a "master race" they don't even have to be smart. I remember a friends house got invaded by a fly but he was able to kill it with a newspaper, no laser guns or nuclear weapons were needed. Granted the had flying saucers with stealth technology, but you know um maybe they just found them.
 
 
Warewullf
22:07 / 30.09.02
I really don't want to see it all a fourth time.

I do. I 've enjoyed his films.

I really don't want to see another teen-horror or teen-horror-spoof or "If you liked American Pie, you'll love this!"-movie.

um maybe they just found them.
Excellent!! I'm stealing this idea, Bear!
 
 
The Natural Way
09:14 / 01.10.02
Well, I don't want to see either.

I want people to stop throwing money at that Shyamalan prick.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
05:36 / 03.10.02
Spoilers



It only came to Brazil (just like the aliens) now. Saw it today. I haven't wanted my money back so badly since Episode 2.

I liked the mood, the visuals, the comedy and not seeing the aliens to soon. But it was all atmosphere and NO story. What a crappy movie!

COME ON: All this just for him to have his faith back? Water? (I wrote a composition at 5th grade which had a better plot device than that.) Message from the wife meaning litteraly what she said? Aliens in invisible flying saucers not being able to destroy a wooden door? Ok, maybe those were their front'men' alien dogs (like the Chupacabra) but, hell!

I could even buy another twist ending - like Gibson was an alien agent all along that lost hs memory and was being called back, or the kids were alien (suggested when he talks to the them about their birth), or even the signs tried to tell us we are all aliens and have to come back from our exploration or something.

But God, that smelled as bad as a Jon Bon Jovi song played to raise spirits (one year)after 9-11. This director is a total fraud. And I'm susprised because I thought for one moment he was going the right way. Until I noticed the end was coming and the resolution wouldn't be too far from that.
 
 
that
10:58 / 06.02.03
I saw this on video last night, and was extremely disappointed. Like Big Furry Bear, I am not a fan of 'The Sixth Sense', but loved 'Unbreakable'. Signs. Well, it started badly - the worst titles sequence I've ever seen - mismatched music and image - both of which were utterly shite on their own, too. And the film - it was weak, it was clumsy - what was the fucking point? And it had Mel 'Homophobic Bastard' Gibson in it, which is why I didn't see it at the cinema. And am I glad I didn't. Jeez. Where was the plot? There are big scary aliens that look like an enraged Gollum, and they came down to earth to grab a few humans for the purposes of slavery. So why do they use poison gas, please? If they're going to manage to get these humans to work for them, they must have some level of mind control or something - what's the point of wiping people out willy-nilly? And the water? Puhleese. A ten year old could've written a better plot (I just realised Vortex09 says basically the same thing, but there you go). No character development - was the little girl psychic or what? Like the mother? Maybe we're meant to wonder - if you can work up the energy to care. But no character development at all for anyone - all you know about Meryl is that he's thinking of joining the army and that he likes to watch girls in swimsuits instead of buying porn like any normal human. And I hate films where dogs die for no good reason. I want an hour and a half of my life back, please.
 
 
CameronStewart
18:07 / 06.02.03
I was disappointed because I'm mildly dyslexic and thought the title was "M. Night Shyamalan SINGS" - I was hoping for a concert film.
 
  

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