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Shamanism help

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16:01 / 15.09.02

I have not personally experienced shadows, but I see no reason why it would not be the perfect way for your path to note achievement/advancement.

01:33 / 16.09.02

This thread is very interesting, and whilst I don't have any practical experience at all in this field, I would like to caution people about using DXM (not DMX :P) for basic health reasons.

DXM is a dissociative, which if you take too much, will cause your liver to fail, and you WILL die. The lethal dose, is not easy to ascertain, as it varies wildly from person to person. I know for a fact, that if I took a whole bottle, someone would have to scrape me off the pavement.

Do NOT mess with this shit.

Sorry to sound like a health warning. I just don't want people carking it to get cheap kicks off of cough medicine.

Faq here

Ok... I'm done. Please continue discussion regardless....

10:19 / 16.09.02

As far as my knowledge goes, DXM itself is *not* toxic nor dangerous, on a physical level. The problem with it is, that in cough medicines it's mixed up with a certain other chemical, which causes the liver problems. Offcourse, extremely large doses are never a good idea. If you want to experiment with DXM, don't buy coughsyrup, buy the pure stuff.

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

16:23 / 16.09.02

Or you can extract it from the cough syrup. It's really not hard at all. We are talking about dextramathoriphan hydrobromide, right?

When other people do shamanic work, do they sometimes find that statues are left in the Otherworld that commemorate what has been done?

I can't remember seeing any statues, but I see ruins and old buildings everywhere. No one is ever living in these, although they are used from time to time. Huh...statues. Something for me to look for, anyway.

20:41 / 16.09.02

You may not encounter them. They may be something which is specifically for my benefit. The other characteristic of them - besides commemoration - is that they act as landmarks. It's much easier to find my way around with them present.

15:03 / 17.11.02

Silly billies. Not a thread we should let die.

I've been batling my way through Archaic Techniques of Ecstacy for a while (you're right Wyrd, it's really dry. The only thing that's kept me going is the odd parallel to my experience here and there), and there was a section that really interested me regarding Eliade's perception that actual ecstatic experience was a relatively rare phenomenon within shamanism. His research indicated that a lot of shamans fake the trance, engaging in dramatic ritual that achieved similar effects.

Now, this is a complex issue and one which I may not be experienced enough to approach, but certainly all the practical books on the subject that I've encountered place priority on genuine journeying and trance states. It seems to me that the ritual drama side of things bears a strong resemblance to certain forms of therapy, and so is valid in perhaps a slightly different (but related) way. I'd be interested to hear what people have to say on the subject, especially as the way in which a journey is recounted to the patient/subject is a vital part in its ongoing integration and success (meaning that being able to present any shamanic material is a vital part of the healing process, regardless of whether the material was gained in an ecstatic state or not).

Thoughts?

12:32 / 18.11.02

actual ecstatic experience was a relatively rare phenomenon within shamanism. His research indicated that a lot of shamans fake the trance, engaging in dramatic ritual that achieved similar effects.

Interesting, although I think there's probably such a fine between a genuine ecstatic experience and a dramatic ritual that fakes the effects of one, that the distinction may become superfluous. From my experience, if I attempt to fake a shamanic trance state through dramatic ritual I would have to make a conscious effort not to access and enter into an altered state, as ritual and drama are methods by which I would normally go about accessing the required state.

I think it's difficult to make any clear distinctions between shamanic states and 'fake' shamanic states - as there's an element of 'fake it till you make it' in most acts of magick. The process of shamanic healing could be considered a ritual drama in which a new reality is created for the client to exist in, and this new reality is almost acted into existence through the process of shamanic soul retreival or whatever method is employed. The fakery becomes an intrinsic part of the magickal operation, which is probably the basis for the cliche of Shaman/Showman.

13:28 / 18.11.02

I wonder how much of this phenomenon of "faking the trance" had to do with what sort of vibe the shaman was getting from those around hir. If the client (or client's family) was extremely agitated and worrisome, or the researcher particularly disdainful and unbelieving, this could potentially affect the shaman's ability to easily connect with hir spirits, no?

20:00 / 19.11.02

I would say that showmanship is a part of shamanic work, in particular the more messy aspects such as soul retrieval, extractions, etc. This is particularly on my mind as I've just completed a series of healings for a friend.

Some of the tasks were quite difficult, and were tiring. However, I was struck tonight, after finishing the final part, how much of the external bits are there for the comfort of the person being healed. It's psychologically useful for them to hear the strange noises, and hear a bit of rattling, and perhaps see a bit of dancing around. Having them receptive and in a "Gee, that looks rather impressive, s/he must be doing something" frame of mind certainly doesn't hinder the process. So, that kind of ritual drama, or external dramatisation of internal subtle work, is part of the package.

However, if you're not doing the internal work, then nothing is going to change (unless it's all in their heads and then the ritual stuff will satisify them anyway).

I don't do much healing work as it happens, but in general the tack I take totally depends on the person being healed. My methods are tailored to each one. I rarely know exactly what I'm doing to do before I start, I just trust in my instincts to guide me fill in the rough outline I'm given at the beginning.

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