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Just because you're paranoid...

 
 
The Planet of Sound
16:07 / 03.07.02

http://www.stopcovertwar.com/target.html

Funny, but...
 
 
Ganesh
19:40 / 03.07.02
Yes, it's a distinctly deranged-looking site but, this being the Head Shop, would you care to supply an angle for discussion of this link? At the moment, it just looks like Conversation-style 'look at this mad link' finger-pointing...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:43 / 04.07.02
Indeed. So let's see if we can make something a little less sow's-earish of this topic.

A question to consider: paranoiac structures are often extremely difficult to isolate. For example, I develop a paranoiac delusion that the government is tapping my phones. I inquire with my phone company. They deny it. But they would, wouldn't they? You're having mood swings and behaving erratically - that's the drugs your "handler" has slipped into your food. Your doctor can't find anything, but he's part of the conspiracy too, or these are new superdrugs that cannot be detected.

And so on. Matt Hooker has sadly apparently removed the full story of his harrassment by Nicole Kidman, but at one point it had expanded to include a bar-room beating and being mocked by Ben Affleck, who was at the time disguised as a Frenchman.

Well, quite.

One possible question, then is, to what extent can paranoias be a) defeated, if they construct a seamless and convincing worldview b) utilised - can one make of one's own paranoia or somebody else's a useful or at least functional basis for living? Are there advantages to seeing a secret agent in every shadow?
 
 
sleazenation
12:00 / 04.07.02
paranoia can be a great resourse when employed by a creative mind - see the narratives that philip K dick constructed ... but few paranoids can actually write their tales as engaginly as Dick. Either that or thier is a conspiracy within the media that prevent s them from publishing the truth...
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
12:22 / 04.07.02
You may recall that there was a bit of a moment like this during the Clinton administration. The Executive had to admit that several (perhaps many) veterans were in mental institutions because they had claimed that the government put radioactive metals into their bodies.

And, oops...turns out that some of them were right. The programme ran into the seventies.

Aiee.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:41 / 04.07.02
Not sure the Dick argument is convincing, just because it's so indeterminate - how can we say with confidence that he would not have been a better writer if he had not had to deal with paranoia?
 
 
The Planet of Sound
12:57 / 04.07.02
Yes, but you would say that, wouldn't you, Haus?
 
 
Ganesh
13:14 / 04.07.02
Hmmm. I remember talking about this before in 'The Conspiracy Mindset', an old, sprawling thread inspired in part by the Apocaloids' 'prophecies'.

Much depends on the duration, complexity and flexibility of the delusion system - and the associated emotional colouring. For example, a young woman who has only recently started to believe a transmitter has been implanted in her skull - and finds this distressing - is relatively straightforward to address. With her cooperation, the cognitive therapist (and this is a form of CBT) would devise a suitable 'reality test' of her beliefs (eg. skull x-ray); since she has little invested in them, she'll likely be quite happy to be proved wrong.

At the other extreme are those individuals whose paranoid worldview has expanded to encompass their entire lives - and much of thir personal identity/self-esteem has become invested in it. For example, a man who's believed for the last ten years that a conspiracy of reptilian paedophile 'fakes' runs the world may devote a considerable amount of time and energy to this belief. The conspiracy might elevate his own (likely rather empty, 'underacheiving') personal status (there's typically a small elite who know The Truth), account for life's failures and disappointments (he's a threat to Them so They've employed Their agents to keep him down) and even provide financial income (David Icke is now a cult megastar). In this instance, it'd be nigh-on impossible for anyone - professional or otherwise - to take on the delusional system. There's too much invested in it: he wants to believe...

From a brief glance at the site above, I'd say the individual behind it is very much the latter type. He's obviously laboured long and hard on a website detailing all aspects of his paranoia: to a certain extent, his paranoia is him, it's literally now his personality.

The Internet is a Godsend for people with paranoid illnesses or personalities who've invested emotionally in their delusional systems. Here, they can flesh out their beliefs in relative safety (only relative, though, as They have eyes everywhere, necessitating all manner of exciting cloak & dagger manoevres) and, given the scope of the World Wide Web, invariably find other individuals who'll agree with them, flock to their cause, reassure them that they - and only they - have opened their eyes to The Truth. Even the inevitable amount of flak such sites generates is all grist to the mill of the overarching delusional system.

In many ways, such evolved, self-sustaining conspiracies are almost alive in themselves - symbiotic memes which provide benefits for the host organism (elite status, negation of personal failings, groovy outsiderness) in return for his industry in maintaining, elaborating and propagating them via the fertile soil of the Internet. Viruses?

If one can think of delusional systems as self-seeding organisms, are they truly symbiotic - or parasitic? It'd be interesting (if difficult and probably ethically dodgy) to follow up a cohort of 'untreated' individuals with complex, devouring conspiracies to see what becomes of them. Do the beliefs change over time? Do such individuals 'mellow' or become more ardent? Do they cross the line into full-blown psychotic illness and become hospitalised? How many are finally diagnosed with schizophrenia? Given the time and energy they devote to their conspiracies, do they drift gradually downwards, socioeconomically? Do they (and I know some do, eventually) kill themselves?

I'd love to know. Wouldn't you?
 
 
The Planet of Sound
14:46 / 04.07.02
Also interesting to note various other delusional systems (with great amounts of personal investment) that aren't so easily labelled as insane, let alone as auto-destructive memes;

'I am protected by a Guardian Angel, and will go to heaven when I die as long as I spend every Sunday morning in Church'

'As long as I work hard, am polite to the boss, and keep at it, I can retire rich and appreciated in 40 year's time'
 
 
The Planet of Sound
14:50 / 04.07.02
The latter of which, come to think of it, is almost a negative print of our stopcovertwar friend's viewpoint. What would Ronnie Laing have to say about that, Ganesh? Two diametric points of the Divided Self?
 
 
Ganesh
18:13 / 04.07.02
PoS: I didn't label them 'insane'; I don't think that's an easy distinction to make.

Your examples could indeed, with a little mental effort, be regarded as delusional systems - with the qualifier that a true delusional belief must be sufficiently divorced from its (sub)cultural context to appear odd, bizarre or extreme. Depending on the cultures in which those examples are held, however, they tend toward consensus reality rather than promoting 'outsiderdom' or 'specialness'. I'm not sure that either would be flexible enough to accomodate or excuse personal failings, however, and the latter would, one suspects, be vulnerable every now and again.

Both examples sound a little like 'default settings' to me rather than worldviews into which one would actively invest time, energy and passion (well, possibly the 'guardian angel' one). It's hard, say, to imagine someone setting up a website devoted to "hard work and pleasing the boss". Actually, that second one sounds very like The American Dream...
 
 
_pin
12:34 / 05.07.02
'Nesh (and everyone else): I remember being taught, in passing, about a case study where a woman someone in England prophecised the end of the world on a given day and a bunch of psychologists went in and observed them, in cognito, to see what would happen to them when the world didn't end.

Of some kind of relevence to what you were talking about? Sorry I don't know enough to web-fu some info.

What am I even talking about?!
 
 
Ganesh
12:59 / 05.07.02
Don't know the case, Pin, but is is of relevance because it's probably the ultimate in 'reality testing' any given conspiracy theory.

A suitably flexible delusion system would easily accommodate a little thing like the world not ending - I seem to recall our Apocaloid friends making a series of (admittedly much vaguer prophecies along the same lines. When October, November and December didn't prove more photogenically catastrophic than September 11th, I think they eventually concluded that They (the reptilio-paedophile axis) were somehow monitoring the Apocaloids' predictions and deliberately postponing the End Times so as to discret them in the eyes of Barbelith.

Or something.
 
 
The Planet of Sound
20:20 / 05.07.02
And I think @Thoth et al got a bit pissed off with me and others endlessly calling them idiots and scaremongers...

Will do some research into 'pleasing the boss' websites; I'm sure they're out there, in one form or other.
 
 
The Monkey
21:22 / 05.07.02
The book you're looking for is called "When Prophecy Fails."
 
 
Ganesh
21:41 / 05.07.02
PoS: perhaps "pleasing the boss" web communities exist but, until you can bring me one that confers the same degree of cool 'I'm in the know' outsiderdom as yer average conspiracy bollocks, I remain unconvinced that they're an equal and opposite driving force.
 
 
The Monkey
14:18 / 06.07.02
The book pin mentions is called "When Prophecy Fails," and I think it was an anthropologist rather than a group of psychologists...my Dad has mentioned this book on a number of occasions. As I recall, the group retreated into a cave and one social scientist just managed to get in there with them.
 
 
The Planet of Sound
13:58 / 08.07.02
The anti-stopcovertwar.com:

http://www.school-for-champions.com/default.htm
 
  
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