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Minority Report

 
  

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Rage
19:33 / 22.06.02
Is this movie worth seeing? I've never read the book.
 
 
Billy Corgan
20:08 / 22.06.02
Since when has a film starring Mr. Tom Cruise not been a cause for celebration?

Tom Cruise is a wonderful man.
 
 
gentleman loser
20:11 / 22.06.02
I'm curious too. I despise most of Speilberg's relentlessly sentimental feel good crap from the past two decades, but most of the reviews seem to be overwhelmingly positive, which makes me immediately suspicious.
 
 
videodrome
21:32 / 22.06.02
It's actually pretty good, one of his better films. Cruise is fine - I typically find him watchable though unremarkable and he's no different here. But the tone of the film is pretty great - it's easily the darkest Spielberg film, and it's ironic that Minority Report nails Kubrick more effectively than AI. Overall, it's as if Spielberg realized what a horrible, disgraceful piece of shit he'd created in AI and took steps to recify things.

I was pleased to find that in most respects the film is actually sci-fi, as opposed to other futuristic films which happen to take place in the future, in space or whatever but really have little to do with the impact of technology on humanity/morality. Minority Report had enough actual sci-fi to keep me going. The film looks pretty great, with the washed-out gunmetal grey tone of the visuals making it a lot easier to seamlessly integrate the digital effects - nearly all the effects in this film blow the pants off Mr. Lucas' latest offering, though that may be because they seem like part of the film. (The cars do remind me too much of Tron, though.) PKD is pretty well represented as well. I haven't read the story upon which the film is based, but knowing a lot of his novels I felt right at home. It's certainly not akin to a well-done film of Valis, but given the context I was pretty happy.

The script and performances range from passable to very good, with the standout being the one scene featuring Peter Stormare, stealing the show as a Blade Runner-esque black market surgeon. Lois Smith is also quite good in her one scene, as an aging geneticist. Samantha Morton and Colin Farrell do well, with Morton having a couple of great scenes. And the guy who plays the caretaker of the precogs is a dead ringer for young Spielberg, which I found amusing.

My biggest complaint with the script is that it essentially becomes The Fugitive for the last 30 minutes - Spielberg has managed to remake the ending of that film quite well, and it's out of place, even breaking with the aesthetic of the rest of the picture. No that it's not a horrible ending, just that the main emotional climax happens a half hour before the film ends, leaving too much time to meander. The film describes and arc, swinging from serious sci-fi to almost noirish detective film, though that shift is jokingly prefigured in the names of the precognitave trio who drive the whole plot.

Worth seeing overall - I vehemently warned people away from AI and this doesn't merit that response at all. It's a fun film, though kinda cold and distant, but it's a lot of fun to see Spielberg wallowing in the gutter a little bit. Well, you know, it's wallowing for him.
 
 
videodrome
21:33 / 22.06.02
I should add, re: sentimental feel-good crap.

Yep, it's there, though not in spades like the last film. It's a little irritating that Children In Danger! are a motivation in this, but it's minimized to as low a level as Spielberg can probably manage.
 
 
RadJose
01:16 / 23.06.02
worth seeing, yeah... but i think it was too long... sigh... and i felt that there was some things early on that looked odd for spielburg... i don't know... go see it full on... but it does tend to be long...
 
 
Hieronymus
01:44 / 23.06.02
I agree, videodrome. I think it succeeded best when the story was in high gear and the techno-porn was relegated to either supplement the story or as utter background, something that I think directors like Lucas and the like completely and utterly miss.

The ending was your typical Spielberg "yay! It's all roses in the end" conclusion but as a fan of PKD I loved the way Speilberg handled Dick's usual dystopia with such realism and not Hollywood-dirtied over embellishment. I didn't think he'd be able to do it but he did.

The spiders alone gave me the liberty heebie jeebies. ::shudders:: More than made up for the genius/failure that was A.I.
 
 
CameronStewart
07:56 / 23.06.02
(I'm keeping this post spoiler-free, but I'll get into more detail tomorrow once I've had some sleep.)


It's awful.

It's a cliche-ridden, preposterous mess, full of ludicrously obvious plot holes.

It's also about 45 minutes too long - and all of it at the end. What would have been a simple, effective, and emotionally powerful ending turns out to be only the SETUP for an entire fourth act which is quite stunning in its stupidity and banality.

The more I think about it the more frustrated I get - particularly when reading the overwhelming accolades Spielberg is receiving for it. It's beautifully filmed and no mistake, but it's got one of the most dreadful scripts in recent memory...
 
 
I, Libertine
22:00 / 23.06.02
Inventive filming technique and nifty special effects propping up plot devices that've been used so, so many times. An unending orgy of product placement. No doubt those who were comforted by the fact that Lexus, Aquafina, the Gap, Reebok, etc. will still be around 50 years from now were the same viewers who needed to hear the tidy, encapsulated explanation of everything they'd just seen at the end. A more or less pleasant way to spend two-and-a-half hours--certainly a higher quality film that Spider-man or Star Wars, which isn't saying much--but no great shakes in the greater scheme. The paradox of the future and knowledge of same is PKD through and through...but in the 35 years since he wrote it the theme has lost some punch.

Grade: B-
 
 
videodrome
01:46 / 24.06.02
I suppose I've gotten over being irritated at product placement now. Given the context - major Hollywood film - it's just a given. Gonna happen whether or not we like it, so if it can be worked into the film I'm willing to deal with it. I think it's put to good use in Minority Report for two reasons. The first is that, when representing the business area of a major American city, it's necessary. There's all sorts of interesting discussion to be had about the fact that commerce has fully taken over art (and for many this isn't even art, so why get worked up about it? besides the fact that it's easy to forget those wonderful Renaissance painters who depicted the people who paid them) but the simple point is that product is everywhere in major American cities, and a film that tried to depict a technological future with a different aesthetic would be wrong in my eyes. Everyone loves Blade Runner but suddenly it's a problem when the companies are real.

But I also think that Spielberg has done decent work here with the placement. Libertine - I think the point is that no one should be comforted by the fact that all these companies are still around, and more invasive than ever. That's fucking terrifying to me, it helped the film work and my guess is that Steve feels the same way. The notion of being 'personally' greeted by a goddamn billboard was more frightening than anything else in the film.

But there's always the argument that we don't go to movies to see commercials and I understand that, just that in a situation like this I can't get real worried about it.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
04:18 / 24.06.02
It'll only come to our screening rooms here by July. But from what you guys have been posting here Spielberg made a mistake similar to AI re: the ending developing into almost a long fourth arc.
 
 
I, Libertine
11:43 / 24.06.02
Videodrome-if that's how Steve feels, why doesn't the film deal with those issues?

On the one hand the use of actual company logos adds verisimilitude, and of course the idea of being greeted by advertisements terrifies me as well. My problem is that, on another level, Real companies are expecting to make money off of their product placement. Sure, it happens all the time...but it is a major element in this film. A major element without any real tie to the film's theme.

Yes, it's terrifying, but the film is absolutely not concerned with what it is like for people to live in a world where they are constantly ID'd and Ret-scanned, where privacy and anonymity are gone. People have simply gotten used to it; this fact is used for comic relief on more than one occasion (e.g. spiders moving through the apartment building, people stop fighting/having sex/etc. just long enough to be scanned).

What this movie is "about" is the oft-repeated tagline, "Everybody runs." But only so long as that refers to a whiz-bang action chase...it certainly doesn't apply to people attempting to run from invasive product promotion.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
11:58 / 24.06.02
Libertine Idler No doubt those who were comforted by the fact that Lexus, Aquafina, the Gap, Reebok, etc. will still be around 50 years from now were the same viewers who needed to hear the tidy, encapsulated explanation of everything they'd just seen at the end.

Why not? They were probably the ones that needed the one syllable explanations at the end of 'Vanilla Sky' to save them the effort of having to think.
 
 
gridley
13:04 / 24.06.02
I thought it was a great time, the best sci-fi action flick since the Matrix.

That said, there was one realllllllllly major plot hole that kind of undid it for me. Still, it was fun...
 
 
videodrome
14:03 / 24.06.02
**SPOILERS**



Yes, it's terrifying, but the film is absolutely not concerned with what it is like for people to live in a world where they are constantly ID'd and Ret-scanned, where privacy and anonymity are gone.

It's not the plot thrust of the film, but in my eyes it was certainly one of the primary subtexts. On one hand you've criticized the film for it's over-explained, too-pat wrap up (with which I agree) but on the other you seem to want Spielberg to actually come out and say "this is bad" re: the corporate saturation when, to me, simply protraying it is quite enough to make a comment. Putting the main character in a situation where he has to avoid not only people, but intelligent advertisements was enough of a commentary on that subject for me to get the idea that Spielberg finds that pretty frightening. I didn't need to see Cruise blowing away adverts with a rocket launcher. But if you do, do you really need something more than the fact that the fourth person 'watching' Cruise commit a crime was a billboard?











***End SOILERS*****
 
 
I, Libertine
17:32 / 24.06.02

Oh, I don't need to see rocket launchers.

I s'pose I just can't get past the fact that plain old commercials are masquerading as some kind of social commentary. You consider it subtext; I consider it an affront to my intelligence. To each his/her own.

Good to discuss it with you, though!
 
 
I, Libertine
17:35 / 24.06.02
Clarification:
Just looking back at the above post, and it seems like I'm trying to be insulting. I'm really not...I'm just saying that the inability to see the adverts as a commentary is my own hurdle, and I'm just not willing to make that leap. I don't feel Steve gives the viewer enough gas to make it over the top.

And now I've hopelessly mixed all sorts of metaphors.
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
19:19 / 24.06.02
...those who were comforted by the fact that Lexus, Aquafina, the Gap, Reebok, etc. will still be around 50 years from now...

That's what cued me in on the distopian nature of this particular vision of the future.

"Cops?!? It's still on in 2054!?! NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!"
 
 
videodrome
21:32 / 24.06.02
No need to clarify Libertine - I understood you the first time and feel the same way re: your comments.

My perspective on the use of commercials in film is this: I work in film, doing props, set dressing, art dept, etc (depending upon the job). On every feature I've crewed, from very small to very large, product placement is a necessary part of the job. No matter the size of the budget, there's never enough cash, and it's one way the art department gets by. Of course, there's other things that drive placement when you start to work on the level of megabudget pictures from global conglomerates, but watching any given film I'm pretty conscious of what was done by the art dept out of necessity and what was a deal made by production.

Given that, I thought Spielberg did a pretty good job of balancing, staying in the boundaries all these companies establish for usage whilst simultaneously squeezing some commentary out of them. I agree that he could have gone a bit farther, but given the circumstances I'll take it.

I should also make it clear that my feelings on this film are definitely in relation to the rest of his work, which I typically find technically impressive, emotionally manipulative, and mawkish. So this was a breath of fresh air.
 
 
netbanshee
00:17 / 25.06.02
Overall I thought the film was good...as said by other it IS a spielberg film so I didn't expect it to operate in ways outside of his scope. The film was nice to look at, the interfaces were absolutely top-notch, the action had a pulse at times. The only product placement that got me was towards the end when the camera panned a bit but couldn't loose the Lexus symbol to the corner of the frame. Otherwise it seems, as was said, that the other products fit into the theme and storyline.

Was curious about the films playing on the wall in the background of the operation scene...any idea where they're from. Seems that he might have been pointing to other references. Seems like the b/w one could have been from Nine Samurai...

It did seem a bit drawn out but I'd recommend it for an enjoyable evening...
 
 
videodrome
00:47 / 25.06.02
I wondered about the film in the bg of the surgery scene as well, but couldn't make it out and didn't stay to catch the credits. IMDB and Google provide no info. Anyone? I thought at first it might be Tokyo Drifter but it wasn't.
 
 
rizla mission
09:19 / 25.06.02
but the simple point is that product is everywhere in major American cities, and a film that tried to depict a technological future with a different aesthetic would be wrong in my eyes. Everyone loves Blade Runner but suddenly it's a problem when the companies are real.

The product placement in Bladerunner was real - or at least the famous 'Coca-Cola' billboard was.. I do wonder if the filmmaker's actually got paid for that one .. y'know, whether the Coke execs were pleased that their logo took up most of the screen for about 10 seconds of a widely released film, or whether they were annoyed about being portrayed as part of an uncaring, dystopian future..

..but, er, anyway, do carry on..
 
 
CameronStewart
10:36 / 25.06.02
The Coca-Cola Company is notoriously protective of their corporate identity and symbology - they don't just let anyone use it. If it's in Blade Runner, they paid for it to be there.
 
 
videodrome
13:40 / 25.06.02
Yer right, Riz. Had been thinking about the offworld blimp and the huge japanese lady, but that was the Coke sign, wasn't it? Been absolutely years since I saw BR. Also forgot about the Atari signs, but in that respect the film wasn't so precient...
 
 
Rage
18:28 / 25.06.02
I just saw Blade Runner and now I'm gonna go buy some Coca-Cola?
 
 
The Strobe
20:45 / 25.06.02
Not just Atari; also Pan-Am. Amazing how you can sopmetimes get things so wrong, eh? Though to be fair, they were pretty good guesses of companies that might still be around.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
05:49 / 26.06.02
what i hated most of all about this awful film was that it claimed to be about all these thought-provoking topics, such as free-will vs need to control, faith vs material exploration, justice vs freedom -- but within the actual text of the film, the events and the character choices, there was no true exploration of any of these themes. what we get at the end, as usual, is that technology is, um, bad and the solution to critical social dllema is to 1) move to the country and live in a shack with your siblings reading tom sawyer and/or 2) get the bitch pregnant again.

fucking crap.

"i didn't say she was drowned." ah, for fuck's sake.
 
 
CameronStewart
13:33 / 26.06.02
***NOW THERE BE SPOILERS.***

>>>i didn't say she was drowned." ah, for fuck's sake. <<<

EXACTLY, Gypt. That bit drove me fucking insane. I've read that stupid slip-of-the-tongue device in bad children's detective novels when I was 10.

The script is full of lazy, lazy contrivance such as that. During the entire chase through the car factory not one of the dozen cops chasing Anderton thinks to close the giant front door so he can't just drive out. When Anderton is tagged for Pre-Crime and becomes a fugitive, his retinal patterns are NOT immediately erased from the police computer system, or put on a "most wanted" list (I've known people here in 2002 who have been fired from their menial office jobs and have had all their security badges immediately confiscated, computer passwords changed, etc etc) - he (and later, his wife too!) can just walk right into the deepest security levels, with only an eyeball in a baggie.

After Anderton is arrested and put in suspended animation, his wife is given a box of his personal effects. Among these are his gun and his severed eye - but it doesn't make a scrap of sense why she should be given those two things (particularly the gun - presumably in a world where they were trying to totally eradicate violent crime they would have some pretty harsh gun control laws, and the gun would be either impounded or destroyed, not just chucked in a box of junk and handed over to a civilian), but of course, she needs them to bust him out of jail. Laziness prevails.

I also hated the depressingly mundane, by-the-numbers, cliche-ridden Hollywood thriller final act, when the "plot" is revealed. Such great care has obviously been taken to create this extraordinary world, and the murder mystery plot is as ordinary as can be.

A far better ending, in my opinion, would have been when Anderton confronts Leo Crow in the hotel room. Finally faced with the man who abducted his son, Anderton decides not to kill him. He stops himself from becoming a murderer and proves that our futures are not predestined, but he does it at the expense of everything that drives him as a person - he loses both the chance for revenge that he's been craving for 6 years, and his unshakable faith in the PreCrime system which he had believed to be infallible and is now revealed to be fundamentally flawed. The system doesn't work, it is dismantled, the end. Would have been simple, elegant, and would have provided the audience with some philosophical and ethical questions to ponder on the drive home. The scene in the hotel room is easily the emotional zenith of the film, and I thought it was quite effective, until the crushingly stupid twist where Crow reveals he's just a patsy. I literally slapped my forehead at that part. Everything after that is just extraneous, boring bullshit, and as Gypt says, does absolutely nothing to explore the alleged themes of the film.

I also hated Spielberg's insistence on giving us little jokey bits to chuckle at - oh! The flames from the jetpack cooked all the hamburgers! Ho ho! Anderton falls into a yoga class! Chortle! Look, he grabbed the wrong sandwich! Tee hee hee! There go your eyeballs, John, better catch them! Big laffs! None of these worked for me and only served to ruin scenes that would have been much more effective without them. Particularly the spider-bot sequence, which I thought could have been very creepy and tense but was killed by the silly gag with the couple fighting who stop only long enough to let the spiders scan them, then pick up right where they left off.

The overwhelming praise for this film totally mystifies me. Critics everywhere are hailing it as a masterpiece, on par with Blade Runner, 2001, and saying it's the greatest film Spielberg has made since Raiders of the Lost Ark. I do not understand it, because it really is junk, and the more I think about it the more I find to dislike...
 
 
videodrome
15:04 / 26.06.02
I agree with every complaint you have Cameron, but for some reason I still like the film, and find reasons not to steer people away from it. All the jokey humour you mention is endemic of Hollywood filmmaking and while I think it's shit, I suppose I'm just used to it and expect to see it.

The fourth act is truly awful, no doubt. I can't understand how things ever got to that point on the screenwriting front - it's just lazy. Even whilst in the theatre, the film had ended in my mind at the patsy revelation. I am also mystified by the unremitting praise the film has received, though I've done little more than skim everything I've run across.

But what can I say? I still managed to like a lot of it...
 
 
CameronStewart
15:53 / 26.06.02
I will say, however, that I thought the opening 15-20 minutes, showing the Pre-Crime system in action, was really great. The clock ticking down to the murder as Anderton scanned the PreCog visions for clues, going to the neighbourhood, trying to figure out which house it was, etc etc - all that was really great. Very suspenseful and exciting and I hoped the rest of the film would match up to it.

Oh well...
 
 
netbanshee
16:18 / 26.06.02
Beyond the comments on the storyline...anyone especially dig the visuals?

I talked to a woman today that I'm doing a web project for and she had done some of the photographics for the ads in the mall scene while her husband lit a great deal of the film. She talked about the processes used in the actually filming of it...like...none of the greyish scenes were shot straight, there was always at least 2 - 3 filters on the pananvision at all times. Apparently the chemistry used to treat the film was wrong so things like the blacks being sort of milky and such happened. Also, there was always fogging and atmosphere on the set to give it that whole dungy futuristic environment-unfriendly look too.

She also caught a glimpse of the filming in the car construction scene and said it was amazing to see the tech the employed during the takes that were made. Gridded lasers on the stage so they could get the camera registration, etc. Sounds really cool...
 
 
CameronStewart
18:38 / 26.06.02
I think it's a beautiful-LOOKING film. The photography and lighting and compositions and camera moves and editing ARE all first-rate. Spielberg is probably cinema's greatest living technician.

But none of it made the film remotely enjoyable for me.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
21:50 / 26.06.02
and if anyone says that a good looking movie that sucks in all other respects is still a good movie because "film is a visual medium" i'll kick their teeth in. but i'll make it look good.

also, videodrome, when you say "i agree with all those points about why the movie wasnt good but still i liked it" i get all cringy. surely if audiences were less forgiving of crap, we might get fed it a bit less often?
 
 
videodrome
22:52 / 26.06.02
Well, I expected this to be crap, devoid of anything intriguing, and went to the cinema because it looked pretty and had PKD's name on it. I've outlined above and on my own page the things I liked, and there were more than a few of them. On a pure scale of 10 this would fall between four and five for me, though when the scale is adjusted against expectations, context and Spielberg's last film my rating goes up to six, maybe six and a half. I don't think Minority Report is unremitting crap, but I do think it has the same inexplicable script holes that are characteristic of every Hollywood film written by comittee (which is to say: most of them) and that hurts the film a lot.

I wish I could agree with your hopeful attitudes re: audiences and their diet of crap, but I can't. This has gone on forever, and will continue. People want excitement (excrement?) in a palatable form. They don't want to think, which is crushingly sad but, I think, true. So any film like Minority Report, in which I am encouraged to think about a couple of things, will receive at least a little more respect than, for instance, Snake Eyes.

I judge films based on what they want to be. As a comparison I'll bring up my very harsh assesment of Waking Life for which I've been blasted in another thread. But judging each on their perceived intentions, my reading was that Waking Life had something to say and failed completely, riding on visuals alone, whereas Minority Report wants to thrill its audience and perhaps give them something to think about on the side. In my eyes, it didn't succeed, but it wasn't a wholescale failure either. Hence my "it's not great but I still like it" assesment.
 
 
CameronStewart
03:58 / 27.06.02
>>> So any film like Minority Report, in which I am encouraged to think about a couple of things,<<<

But were you really? the film didn't really stimulate any thought in me whatsoever - a lot of people (not necessarily you) are calling this an "intelligent thriller," but as I've pointed out above there are some remarkably stupid parts, and all the "intelligent" stuff is entirely superficial, some glib concepts used to dress up a thoroughly humdrum story. It's like a stupid person using big words he's overheard somewhere to appear more intelligent, when he has no real comprehension of what they mean.
 
  

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