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Valis

 
  

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Bastard Shit Man
20:53 / 05.09.03
LOL!

I just went to amazon.com, to get a picture of Dumbo, and down at the bottom of the page, in the “customers interested in this film were also interested in x,y,z” section, the first recommended movie is “Veronica Guerin”!

My first thought was:???Huh?? What does Dumbo, a cute children’s cartoon, have to do with Veronica Guerin, a gritty Based-On-A-True-Story thriller about a Dublin journalist who exposes the dealings of a secret gang, thus incurring their wrath, and ultimately getting shot in the face?

Second thought: ohfuck…

LOL

Heh. Seriously though, click on the link above and look at the “editorial review” section – check out what “knocked Dumbo off the cover of Time magazine”

*cough* AL III:46 *cough*

impulsivelad – Did you catch the hint, towards the end of the movie, about military’s involvement?

It all Adds a kind of ominous undertone to the cuteness, doesn’t it?

raelianautopsy -- that sounds brilliant! You’re not fucking with me, are you? I’ve got to buy a copy of the CD, now.

How does the album inform your "reading"/ experience of the movie?

I’d honestly never heard that before. Serves me right for being leery of prog-rock concept albums, I suppose. (Tho’ I do have a soft spot for Kate Bush’s “The Ninth Wave”, I must admit. Was like lucid dreaming for the ears, when I first heard it. Cinemascope Pop!)
 
 
raelianautopsy
07:24 / 06.09.03
So Dumbo is Horus, and hence Jesus? Well then,

Yeah you get to your duties and watch Wizard of Oz with the Dark Side of the Moon or your so-called "sub-culturist"(thats what y'all call it) licsense will be taken away.

I will have to watch Dumbo now, like everyone else here infected, now that I know he is our Lord and Saviour. Do the Jim Crows have any special meaning?

By the way, I am a agent of the Archons/Reptilians/Old Ones, etc. and now that you have revealed the secret you must be purged.

I'm just kidding. (OR AM I?...)
 
 
Bastard Shit Man
16:53 / 06.09.03
raelianautopsy – your mention of Jesus leads me to believe that you *don’t* in fact have anything to do with The Company.

Anyhow – I don’t see the Jesus connection scanning, to be honest – beyond the superficial “Virgin and Child” resemblance. Perhaps I feel that Jesus gets enough of a look-in with these things – I mean, how many movies have you seen that reference the crucifixion or the Messianic figure? And then you’ve got Aslan and E.T. and I start to feel like “Hold it, boyo! Take your cross somewhere else, ‘cause you ain’t getting your bloody little paws on *this* movie! (Uh…No offence.)”

“Hey, none taken, dude.”

“…Yeah, look…uh, that was rude of me, what I said about your hands. Sorry. Look, you seem like an alright fella, but, I mean, just leave something for the *other* guys, why don’tcha? …do you want something for those hands, by the way, I could get you a – ”

“No, dude, thanks anyway, but I’d rather suffer through it. Cheers, though.”

“Alright. Take care of yourself. And hey -- *loved* Donnie Darko.”
 
 
raelianautopsy
01:36 / 07.09.03
The Virgian and Child connection isn't enough? There are other connections, Jesus and Horus (and Mithras too) are the excact same deities. It's like the diffirence between Roman and Greek gods, same stories, just diffirent names for diffirent time periods.
 
 
Tamayyurt
04:30 / 07.09.03
BSM- Thanks for all the info. I really have look further into this. When I was watching I did get the feeling the stork was Thoth. Wrong god, same pantheon.

raelian- I always thought Osiris and Jesus were the same, not Horus.

I have a question though, why an elephant? I mean there is the Ganesh thing (and Dumbo even has a little mouse with him) but if it is Ganesh, why did they (whoever they are) draw a parallel between Horus and Ganesh.
 
 
raelianautopsy
06:05 / 08.09.03
If God and Jesus are the same then why not Osiris and Horus? But I think Horus was the one born to a virgin mother Isis if I remember correctly.

Another connection: Jesus 12 apostles and all the twelves in the bible are the zodiac right? (look at Da Vinci, a secret society insider, 's painting of the last supper and see the apostles divided into four sets of three) The Sumerian, Babylonian infatuation with the number twelve and the zodiac is were we get our twelve in a clock. The word "hours" comes from the word Horus.
 
 
Bastard Shit Man
00:59 / 09.09.03
When I was watching I did get the feeling the stork was Thoth.

Yesss!! Trust your feelings, lad!!

I mean, dear God, do you know how much shit they put me through before I was deemed worthy of the revelation that Mr. Stork was “really” an allusion not to the Bird Bennu but to the Ibis?

…In the Egyptian story, Thoth looks out for his sister’s kid.

…And in the Greek accounts, Hermes often plays a role analogous to that of Mr. Stork. He takes charge of several of Apollo’s children at their birth; when Dionysus is miraculously born, it’s Hermes who carries the child to Orchomenus and delivers him into the hands of Ino; and after Pan’s mommy runs screaming from the monstrosity she’s just brought into the world, it’s Hermes who wraps the reject infant up warm and flies him off to Olympus, where the gods are delighted by the kid’s novelty.

Thoth/ Hermes/ Mr. Stork is the initiator.

(Funny… the Big Crime that magicians and witches have been accused of down through the years, over and over again, is cruelty to children. From the cannibal lady in “Hansel and Gretel” – to Crowley’s slaughter of the innocents in the Brit tabloids – to the Satanic Panic of the late twentieth century – a distinguishing feature of the magician in popular myth is that he or she will cheerfully abuse and murder children. Even when the “good” magician pops up in our stories, it can seem like he’s treated primarily in terms of his relationship with – and opposition to – all those other evil ones [“five points deducted from Slytherin for ritual child sacrifice”].

(Within the Western occult tradition, on the other hand, it appears that a distinguishing feature of the archetype of the magician – one of his characteristic functions, in fact – is that he looks out for the kids.

(Same goes for the archetype of the sorceress/ high priestess, queen of the witches Isis; though that doesn’t surprise me as much for some reason.

(Don’t know what any of this means. Your comments welcome. Maybe this is a question for the Magick forum?)

Re: why an elephant? I’m not sure I can give you a full answer to that one. I left the Seekrit Klub-howse before I got that far. But I feel that it’s at least partly because the elephant that learns to fly – like the alchemical “shit into gold” or “ice into fire” – serves as an apposite metaphor for the Great Work (“I been done seen near ‘bout everythin’…when I see an elephant fly...!") And is an expression of a particular kind of “crazy” optimism… Even when things seem utterly dark and hopeless, and you’re at the bottom of the worst kind of gravity well, and it seems like all that’s left to do is collapse into despair and apathy, the Initiate will gamble that “maybe the damned elephant can fly!”

The investigations of one element within The Company might throw some light on the pachyderm-Horus connection (although, to complicate matters, this element actually tended [tends?] to consider Dumbo as being a representative of Set – something to do with Dumbo’s pschent being all white, or something). Anyway…this study group consisted of a number of members who were interested in a story about one of Buddha’s adventures. At first glance it just seems like your common-or-garden “miracles of the saints”/ “our guy defeats the baddies” type yarn. One of Buddha’s enemies, his cousin Devadatta, gets an elephant drunk and then sets it free in the streets as B is strolling through town. The elephant goes mad, trampling on carriages and passers-by, smashing houses, spreading panic, and is about to kill a little girl crossing the road when B commands it to stop, whereupon it kneels down before him.

Now, the study group, informed by their understanding of the “pink elephants” sequence in Dumbo, eventually came to treat the Buddha story not as a simple morality-tale but rather as a description of a particular magical/ psychological/ alchemical operation – the details of the operation being encoded in the narrative, not unlike the idiom used by the old alchemical texts.

The members of this “antinomian” study group identified themselves with Devadatta, and interpreted the introduction of the drunken elephant to the city streets as referring to the introduction of a “dis-ordering” agent into the repressive, stagnating “natural order” or status quo. This preliminary chaos was necessary, they believed, before one could hear “the voice of the Buddha”.

While they styled themselves as “antinomian” and “LHP”, it would be inaccurate to suggest they read the story in terms of Devadatta vs. Buddha – rather, each element of the story was considered in pragmatic, practical terms, as a stage in the “alchemical process”. That process was treated and applied in various arenas, from the personal to political. (I should add that, unlike many within the order, they rejected the more literal interpretation of these stories, believing that the use of drugs was incompatible with true self-evolution). They also dabbled in a more cynical interpretation of these stories as a kind of “how to brainwash people” text.

I remember a hand-made Tarot card that a member of the study group showed to me once (this was not one of the “official” cards that were sometimes used in initiation ceremonies in the order as a whole). The card, a version of the traditional “Lightning-Struck Tower”, portrayed instead a pink elephant crashing through a city, demolishing buildings. I remember admiring the colours on the card, and how the pink of the drunken elephant complemented the martial red colour-scheme used by the artist.

Atu XVI – “The Tower” – is, of course, the major arcanum belonging to the war gods, including Horus.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:40 / 09.09.03
I never connected the fact that Dumbo hangs out with a little mouse to Ganesha's mouse. Very cool!

Also, why an elephant? Dumbo is presented with the seemingly insurmountable obstacles of society's limitations (and also their limited ability to view him and his value & potential) and breaks through them all.

P.S. Great observations about magicians looking out for the little ones, Bastard Shit Man.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
15:51 / 09.09.03
As an aside from all this fascinating textural reading, the synchronicity clock has just struck...er...12

'The Man Who Fell To Earth' is on this week, Thursday I think (UK terrerstrial telly)
 
 
Who's your Tzaddi?
18:47 / 10.09.03
Is there a thread to discuss 'The Man Who Fell To Earth' or is this it?

What a mindfuck that movie is. Saw it for the first time yesterday/

Ooh...yeah.
 
 
FinderWolf
20:09 / 17.09.03
By the way, I'm reading VALIS now, and I was wondering: why the name Horselover Fat? That's a pretty random bizarre ficsuit name. Was PKD a horse person? Was he fat? (Not that I've seen from multiple pics of him) And to tie this into this thread, is there a fat horse in Dumbo who's a really loving character?
 
 
rizla mission
20:52 / 17.09.03
It's a disguised version of his own name;

The name Philip means 'a lover of horses', or something along those lines.

Dick, or a similar word, means fat in German.

(I'm too dumb to check either of those references by the way, but I remember reading that - possibly in the later stages of the book..)

I too saw The Man Who Fell To Earth for the first time yesterday - jesus christ, what a fantastic and bizarre film! It's got all the time/space headfuck of 'Don't Look Now' but with a barely-coherent Dick-ian plotline, endless cascades of freaked out acid trip imagery and David Bowie doing his nut! How come I've never seen this film before?? It's an absolute stonecold classic!
 
 
PatrickMM
20:53 / 17.09.03
By the way, I'm reading VALIS now, and I was wondering: why the name Horselover Fat? That's a pretty random bizarre ficsuit name. Was PKD a horse person? Was he fat?

In Greek, Philip means horselover, and in German, Dick means fat. Mystery solved.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:12 / 18.09.03
Cool, thanks.
 
 
panthergod
19:57 / 17.05.04
AWESOME thread people. here's another interesting tidbit:

"Buddhists consider the rare white elephant as the holiest of beasts and the very embodiment of the soul of the Buddha.
"
"The Conception of the Buddha

Buddha was conceived when his mother, Maya, dreamt that a six-tusked white elephant had entered her body through the side."
Link

Very interesting indeed....
Link
 
 
panthergod
20:00 / 17.05.04
AWESOME thread people. here's another interesting tidbit:

"Buddhists consider the rare white elephant as the holiest of beasts and the very embodiment of the soul of the Buddha.
"
"The Conception of the Buddha

Buddha was conceived when his mother, Maya, dreamt that a six-tusked white elephant had entered her body through the side."


Very interesting indeed....
"http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=Buddha%2Belephant&spell=1">search on Buiddha+elephants
 
 
Nobody's girl
04:47 / 18.05.04
Gnostic themed movies.

I've found this site to have some great movie recommendations, after all, PKD had a very Gnostic vibe to his experiences.

I've found myself becoming more acutely aware of "coded messages" in film of late. For example-

Equilibrium is heaving with "messages". Only to be expected of a PKD adaption but check this out-

As the main character enters a room filled with illegal emotive artifacts from the previous era you see him turn on the electricity and he is dazzled by the array.
At this point he lights a lantern, holding it aloft, this image is clearly mirroring "The Hermit" card in the Tarot. He has already turned on the lighting in the room, so what purpose does the lighting of the lamp serve other than to create this image?

It gets better- he wanders through the room and picks up a snowglobe, again dazzled by it's beauty. He then cranks up an old gramophone which promptly plays the opening of the 9th symphony by Beethoven. At this point our protagonist drops the globe, symbolising his enclosed universe or Black Iron Prison as PKD would call it, which smashes as he is ushered into the wider world of universal brotherhood by our pal Mr. Beethoven. Fucking great.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
11:15 / 18.05.04
But Equilibrium isn't a PKD adaption. I've got it here on my computer and I've just checked IMDB.com, PKD doesn't come up in conncection with it.
 
 
Lord Morgue
10:11 / 25.05.04
Anyone seen "Savage", with Oliver Gruner? I swear, an Illuminatus B-grade Kickboxing Sci-Fi film.
 
 
Nobody's girl
12:23 / 25.05.04
Phex- apparently it's a loose adaptation of a PKD short story. I'll hassle my partner about it's title later, he told me when I was very inebriated
 
  

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