BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Valis

 
  

Page: (1)2

 
 
Tamayyurt
04:23 / 17.06.02
OK, I know this isn't a movie it's a book (or actually, it's a movie within a book) and that's exactly what I wanted to ask about. The movie Valis was a coded message to Horselover Fat just like Mason said The Matrix and Speed are coded messages for Invisibles from Invisibles.

Alright, are there any movies out there that you think are so loaded with overt and covert symbolism that they just feel like they're a message? Basically, is there anything out there that is like Valis (the movie within the book)? Opinions and lists appreciated.
 
 
The Natural Way
07:35 / 17.06.02
Nothing really, but noticed an absurd amount of 23's in Magnolia last night. Esp interesting is the date of the fortean, synchronicitous-style events at the beginning of the film - 23rd March. Seem's like Mr. Anderson was making a cheeky wink to those
 
 
The Natural Way
07:35 / 17.06.02
Nothing really, but noticed an absurd amount of 23's in Magnolia last night. Esp interesting is the date of the fortean, synchronicitous-style events at the beginning of the film - 23rd March. Seem's like Mr. Anderson was making a cheeky wink to those
 
 
The Natural Way
07:36 / 17.06.02
in the know.
 
 
Boy in a Suitcase
01:54 / 19.06.02
"The Man Who Fell to Earth."
Even down to the promotional materials.
 
 
Annunnaki-9
21:51 / 22.06.02
Obviously, 'the Manchurian Candidate.' Watch that sucker over and over, and you'll be feeling prompted at the least to ask strangers odd questions. Too bad the train age is rapidly passing....
 
 
The Sinister Haiku Bureau
06:04 / 27.06.02
Yellow Submarine.
 
 
CameronStewart
07:19 / 27.06.02
>>>Nothing really, but noticed an absurd amount of 23's in Magnolia last night<<<

Actually, I don't know about the 23's, but there are very deliberate 82's littered throughout. Room numbers, times of day (8:20), the number on the side of a plane, there's a bit of rope twisted into the shape of an 82 - and finally, of course, Exodus 8:2.
 
 
glassonion
13:54 / 13.07.02
i'm sure that episode in valis was based on pkd going to see a film with kwjeter and another pal in real life. does anyone have a copy of that ace biography 'divine invasions' handy and can let us know what the real-life movie in question was?
 
 
FinderWolf
14:33 / 25.08.03
So does anyone have DIVINE INVASIONS and is able to tell us what movie (if any) VALIS is based on? Just checking - resurrecting an old thread to do so.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:31 / 25.08.03
As far as I remember, (not having read Divine Invasions in a while), the movie WAS in fact "The Man Who Fell To Earth".
 
 
PatrickMM
23:43 / 25.08.03
Yup, it was Man who Fell to Earth, with David Bowie.
 
 
NewMyth
01:56 / 01.09.03
Of course The Matrix is full of "codes," etc: all the 3's, Trinity stuff, Neo/One/Eon Christ-figure ad infinitum...
 
 
Tamayyurt
03:23 / 01.09.03
Yeah, but the Matrix sucks.
 
 
NewMyth
04:31 / 01.09.03
It does fit your definition of being "loaded with overt and covert symbolism..."

IMHO, The Matrix was great, connecting with something in the zeitgeist.
Pulp Fiction did a similar thing.
BUT: they're both examples of a fluke, of films accidentally being better than the directors' talent.

The Matrix Reloaded -- now yes, that sucked, long, hard, and deep.
 
 
raelianautopsy
19:11 / 01.09.03
Why does everyone hate the Matrix so much? I think its the snobiness of wanting such philisophical ideas not mainstream for the masses. Personally, I didn't even like the first one, too much hokey action and not enough philosophy, but the second was better in both regards. So even more so, why does everyone hate the second one even more than the first?! It had its faults in the pretentious overacting and such, but it was as great as Hollywood movies can get. And the ending was the perfect deconstruction of the previous deconstructionism. Just let yourself enjoy a big budget Hollywood movie instead of trying to be so cool.

Movie symbolism: I read that the Wizard of Oz (probibly the book more than the movie, but still) is all about the international banking conspiracy. The yellow brick road is the gold standard, the scarecrow getting a certificate instead of a brain because the system regards certificates but not human brains and souls, the 'disregard the man behind the curtain' is of course the illusion of the system, the emerald city is the green of money; and various things of that nature. And don't forget the Pink Floyd thing.
 
 
sleazenation
19:59 / 01.09.03
don't we already have plenty of Matrix threads?
 
 
bjacques
23:22 / 01.09.03
Short answer: Too much product placement. Keanu Reeves' acting. As for the philosophy, I'm waiting until November to see if it's as well thought out as I hope.

Only the best damn allegory of the '80s ever: They Live
Seventies Allegory: Vanishing Point
 
 
bjacques
23:26 / 01.09.03
And Taxi Driver told me I could impress Cybill Shepherd by gunning down a tenement full of pimps and thugs, but some joker from Dallas got it wrong and tried to impress Jodie Foster by taking potshots at President Reagan. DID HE EVEN SEE THE MOVIE??
 
 
Tamayyurt
23:53 / 01.09.03
Dude, I'm sorry I even made that comment. Ok, keep the film suggestions coming.
 
 
rizla mission
11:46 / 02.09.03
Movie symbolism: I read that the Wizard of Oz (probibly the book more than the movie, but still) is all about the international banking conspiracy.

Yeah - that's true. Apparently the author of the book (Frank L. Baum was it?) deliberately wrote it as an economic/social allegory and was annoyed when lots of people failed to pick up on it
- my US History lecturor explained the whole thing in detail - the characters all represent different parts of American society; I think the Scarecrow = farmers, the Lion = war veterans, the Tinman = industrial workers, and they're all heading to the Wizard, eg the President, the protest their causes. The Wicked Witches are the Democrats and Republicans.

Vanishing Point as an allegory.. hmm.. yeah I see that - the spirit of (white) 60s youthful freedom, aided by a cool black dude and a drug dealer, speeding toward it's own destruction at the hands of the pigs.. I think I see it..
 
 
Bastard Shit Man
23:40 / 02.09.03
I was a member of a secretive international magical society for five years, and on my initiation to (what I then believed to be) the highest and scariest of its grades, it was revealed to me by my order-superiors that Dumbo – yes, that Dumbo – is in fact an esoteric text on magic, drugs, initiation, and the future of human life on the planet Earth and beyond, Tim Leary/ RAWilson stylee.

I don’t believe that it would be a significant violation of my magical oaths to drop a hint or two concerning the “initiated” reading of this movie. (I bloody well hope it’s not a violation of my oaths – they were pretty darned specific about what the painful and bizarre consequences would be.)

In the story, Dumbo’s mutation is considered to be a useless, freakish handicap. The potential power that Dumbo possesses goes unseen, by him and by everyone else, in the social reality-tunnel of the world he’s born into (the “circus"). He ends up fulfilling the lowest of the roles available to him in that reality-tunnel: the clown; the “butt”, in fact, of the other clowns’ pratfall routines, good only for being on the receiving end of a custard pie (“Shit-Dumbo! Ass-elephant!").

Dumbo then happens to accidently ingest a hallucinogenic drug. A psychedelic vision ensues…his reality-tunnel breaks down…and joining him for the ride is his “familiar”, a set of eyes that doesn’t belong to the circus, a small voice that tells Dumbo a different “story” about who he is…

A gap in memory. And the next thing Dumbo remembers is waking up at the top of a very tall tree. How did he end up here? His “familiar” guesses the truth: He flew. Dumbo has the power of flight. That’s what his big ears are for.

(Huh. That’s funny. The lights in the room just flickered for a few seconds, and the bulb’s making a weird buzzing noise now. …Okay, it’s stopped.)

At first Dumbo finds it difficult to change his perception of who he is; of the extent of his powers. His familiar introduces him to the world of “ceremonial magick”, and with the assistance of a magickal prop, Dumbo manages – without the use of drugs – to fly.

(Shit! The light’s flickering again! Must be something wrong with the fuse-box…the heating seems to be on the blink too, it’s gotten kind of cold.)

Eventually, Dumbo manages to manifest his powers even without the use of the paraphernalia of ceremonial magick.

And the heaviest of animals takes to the sky.

The nightmarish “pink elephants” are just those parts of ourselves – the scary, powerful parts – that we forgot to include when we were drawing the map of who we are.

Ganesha breaks the gravity-chains, smashes through the cages of the circus, soars above the train.

Our starry destiny.

A vision of our Mercury-nature so compassionate, so gently teasing, so *loving*, that it makes me break down crying.

(...On a more sinister note, there are hints in the movie about the involvement of the military in Dumbo's evolution.)

Okay, got to leave it there for now. Someone’s knocking on the front door fairly loud, better go answer it.

Oh, I sure hope it’s not the Secret Chiefs, come to punish me for betraying the order!

LOL!
 
 
Tamayyurt
23:55 / 02.09.03
That has got to be the most brilliant interpretation of Dumbo I've ever heard. Now I've got to go out and rent the movie.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:24 / 03.09.03
This cracked me up -- fucking brilliant!!

Especially:

>> Ganesha breaks the gravity-chains, smashes through the cages of the circus, soars above the train.

>> Our starry destiny.

I wonder if we'll ever hear from Bastard Shit Man again, as by now he's surely being tortured or mindwiped & given a new identity as a droog drone/slave to the Illuminati New World Order...
 
 
Bastard Shit Man
22:32 / 03.09.03
LOL! No, HunterWolf, I’m okay. A little cranky, maybe, but still in control of my faculties! The Secret Chiefs seem to be laying low – give me your best shot, fellas, I dare ya!!

No, I’m joking, of course. Seriously though, I’m sceptical about the existence of that kind of “mindwipe” technology (though there might be people over on this thread that would say I’m naïve).

Tell you what, if I come back to this thread at some point, strangely eager to persuade you that all that Dumbo stuff was tongue-in-cheek bullshit, and Dumbo is a crap movie anyway, so don’t bother renting it, because you’re just wasting your time – *then* you can start worrying!

raelianautopsy: what was the “Pink Floyd thing” in Wizard of Oz?
 
 
Bastard Shit Man
22:39 / 03.09.03
Hi, psychonought5. Yeah, it sounds like we were in the same organisation. At the end of the “Dumbo” initiation, were you presented with a tarot card of The Fool? One like the Rider-Waite-Smith design, except with Dumbo instead of a human? He’s wearing his clown costume, the “magic feather” fluttering in his cap, him walking towards the cliff-edge with his eyes on the heavens.

I belonged to the Dublin branch of “the company”. T.F.X. Finnegan was the guy in charge there at the time. How about you? I didn’t know there was a company presence in Serbia.

Did you stay with “THEM” (dun-dun-dunnnnn! LOL!) for long beyond that degree? If you didn’t, you didn’t really miss much. Despite their professed aspirations to “higher intelligence”, I found myself increasingly surrounded by – and pressured into – internal politics and power games. Pissing contests, basically. I was a bit disillusioned. Last year, though, I met someone who told me that things have changed, and it was just that I’d been there at a bad time in their history. Internal conflict is rare now, apparently. She said there was a purge (LOL! Sounds dramatic!) of the membership. Stronger leadership now too, she says, internal differences not encouraged.

But, if I’m to be *totally* honest, I suppose I left because of my discomfort with the much-hyped “Revelation 23”. I suppose I was a bit uptight at the time, but when I learnt, upon being initiated into the sanctum sanctorum of the “most holy” 23rd degree, that the Big Secret involved Dumbo’s trunk being the symbol of the hermaphroditic symbiosis of phallus and yoni … well, I just thought that was fucked-up. I mean, think about it.

And when you consider how many of the “star” members of the temple are so enthusiastic about the “infinite possibilities” being opened up by genetic research…

Anyway, on top of that…well, I started getting these – I suppose “bad vibes” is all I can describe them as, but that sounds so feeble.

Sorry if I sound a bit incoherent, didn’t get much sleep last night. The moron fucker teenage kids from my estate kept banging on my front door and then running off before I could get there and see them. Heard their giggling from the bushes or somewhere though, little fuckers. Bad dreams too. Fuck.

So – what’s your story? Hey, I didn’t misunderstand you did I – you left the order too, right?
 
 
Bastard Shit Man
22:40 / 03.09.03
Oops! That was meant to be a PM. Sorry. Could one of the moderators remove it for me, please? Or just ignore it. I’m a bit muddle tonight.
 
 
Seth
11:09 / 04.09.03
I wanna watch Dumbo, now! That was brilliant, BSM.
 
 
raelianautopsy
21:18 / 04.09.03
Bastard Shit Man: You are initiated into the highest levels of the Illuminati and you don't know about the Pink Floyd connection with the Wizard of Oz? If you play the album Dark Side of the Moon, I think your'e supposed to start it exactly on the third roar of the MGM lion logo, the song lyrics and music go along with the actions of the film. I thought everyone knew that.
 
 
Tamayyurt
02:36 / 05.09.03
I just watched Dumbo and, yeah, it's all there, plain as day. Super cute too. I also noticed that Dumbo is the only one in the movie that doesn't talk. I wonder why that is...
 
 
cusm
18:53 / 05.09.03
Frightfully enough, I've heard the Dumbo thing before. And its still brilliant.

My pics:

Dark city - same message as The Matrix, only with Keifer Sutheland instesd of Keeanu Reeves

The Trueman Show - same thing again, but with Jim Carey

Star Wars (a new hope) - for Cambellien meta religious archetypes in action

Fight Club - for out and out antiestablishmentarism, with a dose of enlightenment

Repo Man - for secrets too deep to share here for the uninitiated. You'll just have to watch it.
 
 
Bastard Shit Man
20:16 / 05.09.03
cusm: I've heard the Dumbo thing before

now I feel all ordinary -- and I want to feel special and "in the know"...shit, what does that say about me?

oh, well. nothing for it but to whip out the SECRET secret reading -- the esoteric text BELOW the esoteric text. anything to stay on top. (i'm sad)

Secret Chiefs, if you're watching -- I didn't have a choice!! they forced me!
 
 
Bastard Shit Man
20:18 / 05.09.03
Here we go.

Impulsivelad:

I really shouldn’t be saying this, but…

Think of Egypt.

Then think of the goddess ****, who was reputed to have conceived a child without husband or lover…

Now think of the legendary Bird Bennu. “What’s a Bird Bennu?” Well, it was worshipped in ancient Heliopolis as the soul of ******. And it looked like… well, something like a lapwing, apparently. A lapwing, or a heron, or –

Okay. So: If mummy is ****, and “daddy” is ******, then that would make baby

?

(Shhhhhh! Don’t say anything! It’s a secret! )
 
 
Bastard Shit Man
20:21 / 05.09.03
Oh, and If you’ve got a reference work for Egyptian statuary handy, look up “pschent” in the index.

Fuck sake, We’re on the bloody internet.

Can’t think straight.

Wait a sec.
 
 
Bastard Shit Man
20:32 / 05.09.03
Okay. Here.

Remind you of anything?

Read down this and check out what gods wore the thing. One in particular.

And look! Here's some cool pictures of the Bird Bennu!
 
  

Page: (1)2

 
  
Add Your Reply