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Pitiless Genocidal Monster of the Week

  
  

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Regrettable Juvenilia
13:08 / 18.10.01


"Hi kids! I'm Tony Blair, British Prime Minister, respected international diplomat and statesman on the global stage, and the kind of guy who gets an erection just thinking about mass starvation!

"I recently ruled out a pause in the relentless bombing of Afghanistan and claimed to know better than the aid agencies on the ground who've pleaded for the military campaign to suspended so that humanitarian aid and food can be delivered to the four hundred thousand Afhans who are starving now and the two million more who could starve over the winter. Read all about it here and here.

"Nice to have IDS backing me up - I'm a bit disappointed though that some of my own backbenchers are more concerned with Afghan refugees than they are with party unity (they must be loony militant lefties - better chuck them out). I'll also have to remind those journalists not to believe the nasty extremist pro-Taliban propaganda of people like, er, Oxfam and Christian Aid).

Anyway, can't stay and chat! I've got to go sweet-talk some more heads of state before masturbating furiously over classified photographs of 'collateral damage'. See you soon!"

Next week: Ariel Sharon.

[ 18-10-2001: Message edited by: Flyboy ]
 
 
Cherry Bomb
13:46 / 18.10.01
He looked cute in the photos of him hanging out in the mess hall with British troops, though...
 
 
Mister Snee
13:50 / 18.10.01
He looks like a very big rodent doing a convincing human impression.
First time I saw him on TV I nearly died laughing.
 
 
The Damned Yankee
15:19 / 18.10.01
Didn't Warren Ellis use Blair as the basis of his Transmetropolitan character the Smiler?
 
 
Harold Washington died for you
15:50 / 18.10.01
Hate to be contrary, but aren't the Taliban pitiless monsters themselves? Better the devil you know right? Right?
 
 
Not Here Still
16:29 / 18.10.01
Better no devils, really.

I'd disagree with 'Better the Devil You Know' to give an OK to anyone.

Hitler or Stalin: both were devils people knew.

Which one would You choose?
 
 
Mystery Gypt
18:07 / 18.10.01
quote:Originally posted by Morocco Mole:
Hate to be contrary, but aren't the Taliban pitiless monsters themselves?

tell me if you think this is fixing the those genocidals monsters right well:

quote:KABUL (Reuters) - Nazirullah watched in despair as a bulldozer tore through the rubble of his home in the Afghan capital, knocking down walls that were leaning precariously following a direct hit in a U.S. air raid.

Five members of his family were killed when a bomb struck his home in the Qalaye Zaman Khan residential area of Kabul on Thursday, and Nazirullah appeared to be in shock. Their badly damaged bodies were laid out beside the rubble.

Like tens of thousands of other residents of the city, Nazirullah may not be a friend of the Taliban or Osama bin Laden, but he doesn't blame them for the calamity that has befallen him.

"It is like doomsday for me," he told the few reporters in the capital when they visited the scene -- and then he lashed out at them for representing nations he blames for the tragedy.

"Go away. Your reporting will not heal any of our wounds and halt the strikes."
...

While it is impossible to verify the Taliban claims, reporters have seen and filmed clear evidence of civilians killed in the raids in the capital -- the latest casualties being in Qalaye Zaman Khan.

...

(Rumsfield) said also that some civilian deaths could have been caused by anti-aircraft fire by the Taliban or shelling from Northern Alliance forces.

Try telling that to Nazirullah and other residents of his neighborhood, who saw the warplanes approach and unleash their payload.
"It was around 12 o'clock when the bomb hit here," he said. "My wife, sister, brother, sister-in-law and mother died in it. I don't know about my neighbors," he said.

A woman passing by was killed by a second bomb that blasted a huge crater in the street in front of what remained of Nazirullah's home. There could have been more dead had they not run for cover when they heard the sound of approaching planes.

"Our people and history shall not forget these days," Nazirullah said.

"Our appeal for a halt of the attacks will not make any difference. I have no message for the outside world. They are just watching our death and destruction."

...

All water supplies have been bombed out and electricity limited to a very few areas for around 15 minutes a day.

"Are we not human beings? If not, then kill us all under the name of terrorists as you (America) are doing precisely that now," said a former university professor.

[ 18-10-2001: Message edited by: Mystery Gypt ]
 
 
The Knowledge +1
09:16 / 19.10.01
Blair crossed with George Bush
 
 
Mordant Carnival
09:43 / 19.10.01
quote:Originally posted by The Damned Yankee:
Didn't Warren Ellis use Blair as the basis of his Transmetropolitan character the Smiler?

Yes. And he was plum spang on the nail with that one, too.
 
 
nul
09:43 / 19.10.01
Hitler or Stalin: both were devils people knew.

Which one would You choose?

Stalin, most likely. Based solely on the circumstances of that period of that time, of course.
 
 
Harold Washington died for you
09:43 / 19.10.01
No devils would be nice but not very realistic. Pogrom or holocaust, Soviet communism or fascism. With those choices it dosen't translate very well to the present situation. Sure the West (westsiiide) has done countless miserable things but compared to what I have heard of the Taliban it isn't even close. Most of the trouble the US and UK get into is because they have almost too much power, soaking in its corrupting juices has turned the beuracracy into an animal that is certainly out of control, but really just needs tamed. If Afghanistan of today was a superpower I would be much more worried, because that is almost from top to bottom a flawed system.

As for all the innocent people that have died in Afghanistan I hope they can hear and take to heart a bit of our propaganda. The majority of them are in a bad way because of their government. Sad and unnecessary though it may be I think this conflict will help the population realize that. The Taliban has done practically nothing to insure the safety of their citizens, in fact has been killing them left and right since '96 for the most idiotic of reasons. And the Taliban has brought the F-16s and Tomahawks too by basically picking a fight with the biggest, most pissed off dog in the yard.

Nazirullah and the rest of them have a chance to dig their whole country out the the rubble now, tear out the poppy fields, kick out the terrorists, and remember this horrible lesson when they start again.
 
 
reidcourchie
09:43 / 19.10.01
Originally posted by Morrocco Mole
"Sure the West (westsiiide) has done countless miserable things but compared to what I have heard of the Taliban it isn't even close."

How do you measure that? What is the criteria? I mean over and above propaganda, how do you make that distinction? Does America and Britan stop bombing when we've killed 6000 innocent Afghans? Is this some kind of Atrocity competition?

Originally posted by Morrocco Mole
"As for all the innocent people that have died in Afghanistan I hope they can hear and take to heart a bit of our propaganda. The majority of them are in a bad way because of their government."

Because that's the way it works. When your country becomes the victim of violence you use it as a period of reflection to wonder what you have done to these people to piss them off so much they're prepared to kill you. We are bombing the Afghan people into an army, we are creating the next generation of terrorists, people who would normally have nothing to do with terrorists will start thinking about it when they see their dead family. This is making the Taliban stronger and when th land war seriously begins, this bombing campaign will have bolstered their ranks.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:43 / 19.10.01
quote:Originally posted by Morocco Mole:
As for all the innocent people that have died in Afghanistan I hope they can hear and take to heart a bit of our propaganda.

Yeah. I hope those *dead people* listen to our propaganda as well, and that it teaches them a valuable lesson.

Fuck's sake...
 
 
sleazenation
09:43 / 19.10.01
on the more facile level of this thread while the smiler is very blairite (notice the amount of spin involved) the VP is a satire on the needs for a 'clean' candidate to appeal to the bible belt etc. the idea being that the only way you can get a clean candidate is to grow them in vats...
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
09:43 / 19.10.01
quote:Originally posted by Brenden Simpson:
Hitler or Stalin: both were devils people knew.

Which one would You choose?

Stalin, most likely. Based solely on the circumstances of that period of that time, of course.

I hate to descend to this level (quoting das uberbitch) but Julie Burchill once said something pretty cool (!) about the difference between Communism and Fascism...

(paraphrase)

Communism has killed as many people as Fascism, but Communism kills when it goes wrong...

fascism kills as a matter of course.

(end paraphrase.)

Not wishing to justify either- they both suck shit IMHO- I was just reminded of that.

Back to topic- Blair has shown his true colours. And they ain't pretty.
First it was "we ain't gonna kill any civilians."
Then it was "we're gonna try not to kill any civilians."
Then it was "the Taliban are lying when they say we've killed civilians."
Now it's "ooops. shit happens."
Fuck.
 
 
Naked Flame
09:43 / 19.10.01
All of this is gonna look very trivial when winter hits.

The World Food Programme states that 750,000 tons of food aid is needed in Afghanistan this winter.

quote:The largest amount of food the WFP has ever managed to deliver to Afghanistan in a month was 30,000 tons.

-Guardian, 12 Oct.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:46 / 19.10.01
In related news, Clare Short tells all you sentimental bleeding-heart peaceniks to shut the hell up:

quote:Clare Short, the international development secretary, last night provoked a furious reaction from aid agencies when she dismissed their calls for a halt to the bombing of Taliban areas of Afghanistan as unreal and emotional.
Insisting that the only solution to the unfolding humanitarian crisis was to drive the Taliban from power, Ms Short said that any pause in the bombing would play straight into the hands of the hardline Islamist regime and its guest, Osama bin Laden.

"It is not a real alternative, it is emotional. It's emotion among people in London, in Birmingham, in Islamabad," she told the Guardian.

Aid agencies operating in Afghanistan, where more than 7m people face starvation with winter fast approaching, immediately condemned her comments.

"The fact is that our staff in Afghanistan have not received any food in the most critical areas. Halting the bombing is the only way we are going to feed people," said Sam Barrett, a spokesman for Oxfam in Islamabad.
 
 
Cherry Bomb
12:34 / 19.10.01
As if the decision to bomb wasn't, in part, related to the emotional reactions people have had since the 9/11 attacks.
 
 
Harold Washington died for you
14:46 / 19.10.01
quote:reidcourchie
How do you measure that? What is the criteria? I mean over and above propaganda, how do you make that distinction? Does America and Britan stop bombing when we've killed 6000 innocent Afghans? Is this some kind of Atrocity competition?



The distinction is that the western powers are not aiming for civilians. The Taliban is harboring a known terrorist who most likely was involved, or knows who was, in the 9-11 attacks in which civilians were specifically targeted.

quote:Flyboy
Yeah. I hope those *dead people* listen to our propaganda as well, and that it teaches them a valuable lesson.



Oops. Proofreading pays. Well the survivors of these poor souls should listen. Yes the US and UK are responsible for this latest round of Afghani suffering but before this who did more to feed them: the Taliban or Western aid foundations? I hope the people on the ground start to make some of these connections.

[ 19-10-2001: Message edited by: Morocco Mole ]
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:58 / 19.10.01
Back to the Clare Short thing.. she can fuck right off.
And there was me, a fortnight ago, thinking she actually had some compassion.
The thing is, everything us "mad", "cowardly" and (yes, thanks for this one Clare) "emotional" people said was gonna happen...
...is happening.
Go on, Tony. Kill a bunch more poor people. It might convince us of your sincerity.

I've said it before and I'll say it again- we NEED Bill Hicks right now (RIP)- nuff said.
 
 
Cherry Bomb
15:07 / 19.10.01
quote:Originally posted by stoatie:


I've said it before and I'll say it again- we NEED Bill Hicks right now (RIP)- nuff said.

SOOO true. SO very TRUE. I've thought of Mr. Hicks many times since these actions began.

"The Persian Gulf Distraction: It was so pretty, and it took our minds off domestic matters, too."

Or the elite Republican Guard. "It went from the Elite Republican Guard to the Republican Guard to the Republicans made this shit up..."
 
 
Mystery Gypt
17:40 / 19.10.01
quote:Originally posted by Morocco Mole:
Yes the US and UK are responsible for this latest round of Afghani suffering but before this who did more to feed them: the Taliban or Western aid foundations? I hope the people on the ground start to make some of these connections.

it's kind of like you dont fucking read any of the threads on this board. right above you is an article i posted about what we're doing to afghans and how they feel about it; here is a thread about how actual afghans might feel about the taliban (as opposed to what Bush has told CNN to tell you, and which you seem to unquestionably swallow) and here is some information on the atrocities of our country. educate yourself, please.

you do know that the US is currently harboring terrorists the India accuses of mass murder in their country, right? so it's cool with you if they head some of their nuculear arsenal over this way? i mean, our government is pretty goddamned opressive, in their eyes, right? they sure as fuck better "liberate us" cuz we're so ignorant, we let a president hijack the elections! send in the goddamn UN troops to Wash, DC, right?

[ 19-10-2001: Message edited by: Mystery Gypt ]
 
 
Ethan Hawke
18:15 / 19.10.01
quote:Originally posted by Mystery Gypt:


you do know that the US is currently harboring terrorists the India accuses of mass murder in their country, right? so it's cool with you if they head some of their nuculear arsenal over this way?


Hey, what's this all about? Can you give us a thumbnail and/or link? I'm interested indeed.
 
 
MJ-12
18:40 / 19.10.01
I believe this is in reference to the Union Carbide execs in charge when Bhopal happened.
 
 
Harold Washington died for you
19:16 / 19.10.01
I read the threads but I won't take them all as gospel truth just because those speaking may be closer to my place on the political spectrum.

I read the articles. The first is an interview with a very angry man who just lost his family, very much like all the interviews with those who lost loved ones on 9-11.

Vollmann's essay was interesting but I can't conscience apologizing for the Taliban. He says "these men do the best they can." This excuses their behavior? They want evidence aganist bin Laden so they can "cut his throat", but this is the same government that is afraid of their women reading, afraid for anyone to watch TV. You will forgive me if I also question the Taliban devotion to the truth.

Whoever committed the 9-11 attacks, most likely Osama and his crew because of their track record, were hunting for women and little infants and mimimun wage fry cooks working the concession stand on the ob deck. From their own mouths you hear holy edicts that killing all Americans is a good thing. Since I am an American, and I have an interest in self preservation, I want those people locked up or dead.

I think the bombing of Afghanistan is over done, but the fact remains we are not aiming to kill any civilians. We are doing the best we can, as Vollmann might observe. I believe this even though CNN says it too.

As for American atrocities, including the Afghans who died from errant bombs, I think it is awful. The presidential election was a joke (tho I voted for Nader so I feel I bear some responsibility). The whole sordid list is truly, well, sordid. But do our sins cancel out those done by the Taliban? The terrorists? I think not.

[ 19-10-2001: Message edited by: Morocco Mole ]
 
 
Naked Flame
20:43 / 19.10.01
Mole- nobody's saying we should stop the bombing because two wrongs don't make a right.

They don't, but that's not the issue.

I for one am saying stop the bombing because literally millions of people will go hungry and/or die if we don't.

oh, and your argument about bombing because you want the people who have the means motive and opportunity to strike at the US 'locked up or dead'.... if everyone thought like that


we


would


all


FUCKING


FRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
 
Harold Washington died for you
02:58 / 20.10.01
Probably, but it is possible to negotiate, or just reason with most people who want to harm us. Whoever did this dosen't even want to claim responsibility. That is what has me scared shitless about this whole thing. No political goals, no dissidents released, just senseless murder.

Well I have a feeling that Afghanistan will be getting its food handouts again soon, the troopers are not only on the ground, but the DoD is freely admitting it. Good luck to all the people in Afghanistan tonight.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
07:06 / 20.10.01
wait, but, what about that "no negotiations" mantra bush has been relentlessly repeating when asked to provide evidence? hell the taliban even forewent the evidence thing this week and just said they wanted to hand him over to a non-western state. nope. we WANT to bomb.

i dont remember negotiations with any of the democratic governments in central america we toppled either.
 
 
reidcourchie
07:40 / 23.10.01
And of course Clinton will be extradited to the Sudan for bombing a pharmacutical company in retaliation for aa unprovoked blow job he received from Monica Lewinsky.
 
 
Ierne
12:11 / 23.10.01
Alright, it's a new week. Bring on the next monster. (Sharon, isn't it?)
 
 
Cherry Bomb
13:26 / 23.10.01
quote:Originally posted by Ierne:
Alright, it's a new week. Bring on the next monster. (Sharon, isn't it?)

Well he certainly has been...er... "gunning" for it. quote: JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel defied its closest ally the United States Tuesday by rebuffing Washington's demands to pull back from its broadest military offensive against the Palestinian Authority.

Israeli Defense Minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer brushed aside the demand to end the offensive, which aims at pressuring Palestinian President Yasser Arafat to hand over the assassins of a far-right Israeli cabinet minister.

``The things that came out of there (the United States), with all due respect, are not valid,'' Ben-Eliezer told reporters.

``Because we have no intention of staying in these territories. We have no intention of staying in area A (Palestinian-ruled areas) and we have no intention of conquering territory.''

Foreign Minister Shimon Peres told CNN from Washington where he was due to meet Secretary of State Colin Powell that Israel would pull out once Arafat ``responded positively'' to a U.S. demand he arrest Tourism Minister Rehavam Zeevi's killers.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
17:49 / 23.10.01
It occurs to me somewhat belatedly that this thread is about the kind of idiot demonisation which causes this kind of violence.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:00 / 24.10.01
On one level, it's true that I thought it oddly appropriate to describe the British Prime Minister in the kind of terms in which the British and American public are being encouraged to see (with awful success) Osama Bin Laden and what Haus has pointed out is a worryingly vague definition of 'The Taliban': "these people" as Blair called them, with whom there is apparently no reasoning (another characteristic he would seem to share with them, then).

On another level, I'm entirely serious when I say that Tony Blair has advocated and enthusiastically supported policies which are pitiless, monstrous and potentially genocidal. Thus, Pitiless Genocidal Monster. I'd be interested to hear your views on why this is an "idiotic" conclusion to have come to, Nick, if that's what you meant to imply.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
09:00 / 24.10.01
quote:I thought it oddly appropriate to describe the British Prime Minister in the kind of terms in which the British and American public are being encouraged to see (with awful success) Osama Bin LadenIt's certainly attractive in terms of a basic poetic irony. But consider the function of the government's description: it's an attempt to establish someone as 'other', as 'monster', like the anti-Semitic cartoons in (not only German) newspapers before and during WWII. It is, as you say, an attempt to suggest that there can be no dialogue, because the other side is less than human, and cannot understand.

quote:I'm entirely serious when I say that Tony Blair has advocated and enthusiastically supported policies which are pitiless, monstrous and potentially genocidal. Thus, Pitiless Genocidal Monster. Pity is a human quality, not one of a policy. Genocide is not merely mass killing, it is the attempt to extinguish all of a people. The word was created during or after WWII. There are strong words for what is being done in Afghanistan, but I'm not sure this one is applicable. And 'Monster'. You're giving up, then? There can be no negotiation with Blair? He's not human? And therefore not responsible for what he does? And you're negating our responsibility for his actions as fellow Brits? You're not prepared to accept that humans can do the kind of thing he is doing? Then surely Bin Laden is a monster, too, and so are pretty much all those in government around the world. Were they different when we elected them, or does ths system make them that way? Either way, the fault is ours as much as theirs. quote:I'd be interested to hear your views on why this is an "idiotic" conclusion to have come to, Nick, if that's what you meant to imply.The conclusion is not idiotic, merely inaccurate. The tone, however, the thrust...that's another matter. It's flailing and angry. Don't you think there's enough random yelling going on right now? Do you want to let everyone off the hook and allow these 'monster' definitions to be the truth?

Everyone here is a human. This is what humans do. We have to do better, not the same. And to do that, we have to take on board that each and every one of us is capable of the worst and the best, under the right circumstances.

There is no 'monster'. When you say there is, you make idiots of us all.

[ 24-10-2001: Message edited by: Nick ]
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:23 / 25.10.01
I just lost the biggest rant because Tom was fixing the board... But basically, yes, I am flailing and angry. God, am I angry. I want Blair to stop fucking patting himself on the back and be made to answer for deaths he's caused and the potentially appalling numbers of deaths he *will* cause if this continues, all in my name.

You know, at times like this, I find myself wondering if there's something wrong with me, and my friends and other people I know who feel the same way, if maybe we're just too sensitive, too "emotional" as Clare Short called the anti-war movement... because I don't "get it", because I don't see what the fucking point is of dropping bombs on hospitals in Afghanistan.
 
  

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