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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

Cartoons - They Don't Make 'em Like They Used To

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06:41 / 10.06.02

this is partly whinge, but mostly a serious question. i really don't like modern cartoons and i wondered why the style has changed so much. in the thirties and forties, the colours and the lines were softer and the characters looked almost three dimensional. i'm thinking about the early tom and jerry's, mickey mouse and numerous others. nowadays, all the lines are harsh, the colours are really glaring and to my mind the characters are just incredibly poorly drawn. they look totally two dimensional and i find i've got no..... affection is the closest word i can describe, for the newer cartoons. most i just can't stomach but i do watch some - the simpson, rugrats, duckman and cow and chicken - and it's in spite of the artwork, rather than because of it.

am i just an old cronk? i don't understand why the style is so different.

07:06 / 10.06.02

I'm no expert, but wasn't all the stuff from the thirties and so on originally made for the cinema? i.e. hand drawn cells on celluloid, which would be far too expensive nowadays, especially for TV. It's the same reason that 'Snow White' looks so much better than say 'Robin Hood' or 'the Fox and the Hound'.

Plus modern cartoons are crap and don't have Daffy Duck.

The Natural Way

09:52 / 10.06.02

It. Doesn't. Matter. What. You. Like.

It. Matters. What. The Kids. Like.

Hooray.

Yes, I wish they'd bring back G Force and Ulysees 21, but the littluns love the Power Puff Girls (see Mr. Fear's big praise elsewhere) and, anyway, they didn't have the Simpson's in the bloody 30's.

10:00 / 10.06.02

but i would argue that kids are quite happy when the older style cartoons are shown. kids like cartoons. i'm not talking about nostalgia here - i was born in the 60s, and the cartoon style then was radically different to the ones made in the 30s. i'm not sure what your point is, runs.

there seems to be technical/financial reasons why the style is so different. thanks for pointing that out, orr. i find it a shame, though, because i'm sure the likes of disney could afford to produce animation whichever way they wanted.

The Natural Way

10:12 / 10.06.02

Ummm.....my point is: s'all subjective and, I should add, I hated loads of old cartoons when I was a kid (apart from WB stuff, but I'd still rather have watched 'Battle of the Planets').

So, they're worse in what way? You seem to think they're badly drawn....anything else you don't like? C'mon SFD , yr being as vague as I am.

10:32 / 10.06.02

ok. in the older cartoons, the characters are mostly animals, rather than humans. not sure if this makes a difference, but it just occurred to me. their more three dimensional appearance and softer colours make them appear warmer. and i like a lot of the story lines. the very early tom and jerry cartoons have tom looking more like a kitten than a grown up cat and his fur seems to have texture. the movements of the characters are more fluid, too. it just seems to me that a lot of cartoons now seem a lot less sophisticated.

The Natural Way

10:55 / 10.06.02

So, yr really talking about the intricacy of the art and the quality of the animation?

Yeah, that has changed...'Fordism' and all that...standardisation....etc.

ONLY NICE THINGS

10:58 / 10.06.02

Ulysses 31, you peasant.

And if you are looking for brilliantly-designed characters interacting in a consistent universe, the Powerpuff Girls is without a doubt the way forward. Where is Jack's big praise?

11:07 / 10.06.02

sorry haus - i've seen the powerpuff girls and just had another look at them via the movie website. again, the thick outlines and cheap and nasty looking backgrounds turn me right off.

perhaps i am too fluffy on this subject.

11:19 / 10.06.02

SFD- Duckman is still on television? Where?

Power Puff Girls is brilliant, even though I can't really stomach the animation, the storylines are just gonzo fabulous.

11:51 / 10.06.02

i saw it 9 or so months ago, on the doomed itv digital. i think it was the cartoon network.

Our Lady of The Two Towers

11:54 / 10.06.02

I think it's partly the creeping use of computers, Disney pioneered it for their Animated stuff with that cats and dogs version of 'Oliver!' in the late 80s and it's gone on from there. Powerpuff is part of the run of less 'natural looking' cartoons started with the Simpsons. But the original cartoons were made for the cinema and probably had more time to be spent on than those of today. But I find that the cartoons of today have more of a script, whereas with the old Tom & Jerry's it's simplistic and pretty unchanging. So it's a trade off.

12:22 / 10.06.02

Jack's comments on the brilliance of the PPG.

Short version: Kids genuinely dig 'em. And so do I.

12:46 / 10.06.02

I had a very brief look at the Power Puff Girls the other day. I could not cope with the animation, immediately, so I turned it off. However, initially the voices in South park grated on my nerves unbelievably, and now I want to adopt Cartman, so who knows what would happen if I gave it a chance? Style seems to be a 'thing' - the deliberate crappiness of the South Park animation is unmistakeable - the wobbly outlines in Dr. Katz similarly so. The Simpsons, et al, are not just aimed at kiddies. The animation, particularly in the newer series, is fairly smooth and watchable, and does not generally thwart my desire not to get seasick from watching tv. However, I also like Digimon, and, to a lesser extent, Pokemon. Some cartoons, both old and new, make me feel sick just to look at 'em, so I avoid them - that is my only criteria for giving something a chance, nothing more reasoned than that. I now like The Wild Thornberries best out of all the Klasky-Csupo (sp?) type cartoons. Even with cartoons I do like, however, I tend to get saturated after long exposure to a particular style, and start to find it unbearable after a while...

The Natural Way

12:51 / 10.06.02

Chol:

"I could not cope, etc...."

My point: not aimed at you. Maybe try and see it from the kid's perspective - s'healthy and means you keep redefining yr taste and thinking and stay young forever. Better than Olay.

12:53 / 10.06.02

to be honest i think i can be really soppy when it comes to storylines. apart from the ultra violence of tom and jerry that is. one of my favourite cartoons ever is an oldie, called happy days (i think). it's starts out with a (beautifully drawn) wolf stalking a cuddly rabbit. the wolf almost kills it then realises it's a living thing with feelings and a family that would miss it. the cartoon ends with all the rabbits sitting around a table eating dinner and singing 'happy days are here again'. at the end of the table is the wolf, who's gone to live with them.

so yes, i would say that the story lines are very different these days. but that cartoon made me bawl my eyes out when i saw it. think this stuff is my soft spot.

12:58 / 10.06.02

Runs: I think it would have pained me even when I was a little 'un. I was not above artistic snobbery even in single figures. Having said that, I do take your point...

13:51 / 10.06.02

Hey, SFD! I remember that cartoon. I had a strage fascination with the MGM toons when I was young, especially Droopy. For a sec I thought that it had to be a Tex Avery short, but it turns out I was wrong. The cartoon was called "Hungry Wolf" (very original) and is available on the video cassette Droopy and Company. I checked Amazon UK, and you can get it used, but it's pretty damn expensive.

I don't know what to say about your dilemna. My problem with cartoons these days is that my youth was just about the last time you could see the early cartoon shorts relatively uncut. I wince anytime I see a hacked up cartoon these days. Or, even worse, when some of the sharper toons disappear entirely. I was in an animation gallery awhile ago, and the owner looked ready to kick me out until I started getting shouty over Ralph Philips, the Warner cartoon about the kid who would daydream all sorts of adventures. Brilliant stuff. Or Sam and Ralph, the wolf and sheepdog who punched into work everyday.

They have it right that cartoons have to be inexpensive for television. This isn't new with the Simpsons by any means. Look at Rocky and Bullwinkle or Beany and Cecil. I really hope you can someday get past your very valid perceptions of the look of the cartoons, and notice that animation has entered another great age. At the very least, I second trying out the Powerpuffs again.

16:15 / 10.06.02

moriarty - thanks so much for the info on that cartoon! i will try and get hold of it.

as i said, there are modern cartoons that i really like, but i'm not sure i'll ever get into the style. i'm also into the pink panther cartoons of the 1960s and the hair bear bunch, wacky races etc, so i am not exclusively an oldies fan.

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

18:08 / 10.06.02

Truth be told, i like (or maybe "appreciate" is a better term) cartoons these days better than when I was growing up and before. I truly believe they are genuinely funnier. I wish I had the cartoon network when I was younger.

I was watching spongebob squarepants with my neice a while ago, and the jokes were not bad at all. The show had a pretty developed sense of humor. I am envious of my neice being able to grow up to this stuff.

I do miss the painted backrounds of the 50's and 60's, though. And you're right, they don't make them like they used to. And hooray for that, because I've been watching Tom and Jerry for nineteen years now, and there are only so many ways a cat can be beaten by a mouse.

12:22 / 11.06.02

There are some rocking cartoons around at the moment .. the problem is, the majority of them seem to be on the bloody Cartoon Network or whatever .. Childrens BBC and ITV just seem to show mostly lame, cheap-ass cartoons that nobody likes..

Why is Pinky & The Brain never on any more?

Where did the Sam & Max cartoon series go? That RULED.

Not even Johnny Bravo seems to be on anymore..

Basically, it just seems terrestrial TV barely ever shows the cartoons I like.. instead all I ever seem to see is more bloody Pokemon ripoffs or Jackie Chan Adventures (hilarious opening sequence, shite cartoon)..

But at least we've got The Powerfpuff Girls if we wake up early.

And I'll admit that on the quiet, I really enjoy that Daria cartoon that MTV make..

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

12:23 / 11.06.02

I wish they'd show Batman again...

12:27 / 11.06.02

Why is Pinky & The Brain never on any more?
Warner Brothers canceled it. It moved to Nickelodean. You may be able to find reruns if you look hard enough. You're better off looking for Animaniancs reruns though.

Where did the Sam & Max cartoon series go? That RULED.
That was canceled by the assholes at Fox. If something is popular and actually funny , you can bet they'll cancel it.

Not even Johnny Bravo seems to be on anymore
It comes on saturdays and sundays. They're showing new episodes starting this friday.

I really enjoy that Daria cartoon that MTV make
They are no longer making this either. It ended with a 90 minute movie. Daria graudates from high school at the end.

I wish they'd show Batman again...
It comes on pretty late at night, or at least it used to. Around midnight or so. Whenever the midnight run of toonami ends. It's also shown at either 6 or 6:30 on sundays on Cartoon network.

12:35 / 11.06.02

Trijhaos: Not everyone lives in the United States.

And, y'know, when I went to England that one time, the teevee was aaaaaaaaaaaaall diff'rent and shit. Man, it's like a whole 'nother country over there!

They talk funny, too. They call teevee "telly" and shit. It's funny.

12:37 / 11.06.02

I know not everybody lives in the United States.

12:37 / 11.06.02

"there are only so many ways a cat can be beaten by a mouse"

i know! i must've seen every one of the (older) tom and jerry's dozens of times and i know how they all end but i STILL can't stop watching them.

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

12:42 / 11.06.02

Why don't they show any of this stuff anymore anyway? or do I just miss it?

I know they showed some of the old (90's) Spider-man cartoons recently (too early for me)..... but then... *cough*... I've still got a whole bunch of them on video...

12:47 / 11.06.02

I guess stuff isn't shown anymore because it's not pulling in ratings or something like that. Out with the old and in with the new. I mean,who wants to watch superheroes and anthromorphic animals when you've got digipokemeda-monbots.

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

12:52 / 11.06.02

Everyone wants superheroes now (clearly the thinking behind Spidey re-runs) so hopefully we'll get a whole bunch of them getting some attention...

But what about Bugs? Tom and Jerry? Even Mickey Mouse? I never see any of that stuff around anymore... I remember when I was young they used to have little slots for like 15 - 30 mins of shorts. Oh man, can today's child survive on Pokemon alone? Superlackofanimationgo!

12:57 / 11.06.02

I suppose the only way you're going to be able to get Tom and Jerry or Bugs Bunny is either by buying a DVD (Do they have Bugs Bunny dvds) or watching cartoon network, which may be a bit difficult if you're either not in the US or your cable provider doesn't have it.

Mickey Mouse I haven't seen in years. I would think the Disney Channel at least would run the Mickey Mouse shorts if a movie didn't run for the full 2 hours or so, but it doesn't.

MTV is supposedly making a new spiderman cartoon.

Pokemon is pretty bad. Oh sure, it's kind of pretty, but the entertainment factor is well, nil. I mean, how many times can you watch Ash say "Go Pikachu" and have Pikachu get severely wounded but still come out on top. Sheesh.

13:51 / 11.06.02

so.. I am the only one who thinks Mickey Mouse is the most terminally uninteresting cartoon character ever concieved?

It's goofy you want - 'GoofTroop' was fantastic .. it was absolute televisual carnage..

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

14:06 / 11.06.02

oh no, Mickey is shite. I was just wondering where all the short cartoons had actually gone... Mickey and all his pals, so to speak. Goofy was always the best (out of a bad bunch).

16:15 / 11.06.02

SFD- I don't know if it's available where you are, but cartoon network has a sub-channel (it's MTV2, if you will) called Boomerang, devoted exclusively to cartoons from the 60's and before, perhaps peppered with a few from the 70's.

As for new cartoons, I will back a few:

On cartoon network- Ed, Edd & Eddy is usually pretty funny, and there's very little I can complain about with the Sunday night (in the US) Adult Swim material.

On Nickelodeon- It's redundant as hell to say Invader Zim rocked. I've heard rumors that there's an entire nother season of Zim available on Morpheus that will never be shown on TV, but I have no confirmation. I love the Fairly Oddparents, and Chalk Zone has potential.

Recently, I acquired digital cable, which is about the most addictive thing ever since I now have four channels devoted to cartoons (and, on a side note, one devoted to Nickelodeon game shows- including all the ones from the 80s. "And the grand prize... a NinTENdo! Complete with the power pad!") There's a channel devoted to cartoons that Disney either created or purchased, so Gargoyles is on every night at 11 or so.

The old shows were great, I agree. I can't get enough Top Cat, and Popeye the Sailor Man is pretty damned funny. And there's new stuff that doesn't entirely suck. However, for my money: Danger Mouse and Count Duckula. The pinnacle of cartoon making.

16:25 / 11.06.02

re: mickey mouse. i was thinking of the v v early stuff i.e. steamboat willy and just after. the character soon became v bland looking and acting, as if he'd been decreed some kind of ambassador for america.

alas, i have no real access to tv and certainly not cable. uk terrestrial tv seems to plonk old cartoons in during the daytime at weekends, especially when there's time to kill if a prog ends early. hopefully my sister will have the hungry wolf cartoon by the time i next visit, so i can sob happily along to it again.

i'd forgotten about danger mouse, which was incredibly funny at times.

17:30 / 11.06.02

sfd:

"i know! i must've seen every one of the (older) tom and jerry's dozens of times and i know how they all end but i STILL can't stop watching them."

It's all in the performance, innit? This is why visual humour (which tends to get a bad press) rules with fists of, um, custard.

To answer your original question, I reckon it's mostly the time thing* (more channels to supply, schedules devoted to kids, a much greater demand for toons in general) but partly it's just fashion - styles are bound to change.

* Remember the cartoon awards episode of the Simpsons? There's a gag about a clip of Ren and Stimpy not being ready to show - I think this might be a reference to the fact that it's drawn in the fully rendered, painterly style SFD misses

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