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NEWS: Kabul is being Bombed.

 
  

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Naked Flame
09:52 / 08.10.01
heh, give auto a break frances, you seen all the stuff he typed on the new site?

it is, to be sure, very very fuckin' complex tho.

I am past argument. I don't care about reasons. There is a need for people to protest the use of ALL violence. We're part of the balance even if our desires never manifest.
 
 
Frances Farmer
09:52 / 08.10.01
quote:Originally posted by Naked Flame:
heh, give auto a break frances, you seen all the stuff he typed on the new site?

it is, to be sure, very very fuckin' complex tho.

I am past argument. I don't care about reasons. There is a need for people to protest the use of ALL violence. We're part of the balance even if our desires never manifest.


Yes, I did see it - And I respect his motivations and opinions. However, I find no cause to stifle my feelings on the matter. I am fucking outraged. I agree - The Taliban are nasty, nasty people. Reguardless, this is not an appropriate response, period. I don't defend Zerone's opinion on it's intellectual basis, I defend it on it's worthiness to receive an intellectual response. I won't give that response, because, like you, I am beyond argument at this time. Nevertheless, threatening to squash dissenting opinion with "flame" is not what I would call the "Best of Barbelith".
 
 
Jackie Susann
09:52 / 08.10.01
If you look at autopilot's response, he did actually offer a serious argument. since you seem to have missed it, i'll repeat it:

quote:maybe you believe the strongest nation on earth backed up by a coalition of almost every other nation on earth cannot muster any other response than flat-out indiscriminate violence - even when faced with the impoverished people of the world's poorest country.

it might not be the best of barbelith, but i know i'm pretty freaked out this morning and it might be an idea to cut people who are working for peace and justice a little. fucking. slack.
 
 
autopilot disengaged
09:52 / 08.10.01
frances: i was tired. and depressed. but i was trying to make a point - even with the last few sentences.

quoteriginally posted by zerone:
Violence is the only language that they seem to understand.


quoteriginally posted by autopilot disengaged:
you're wrong. you're gonna get flamed, and you brought it on yrself. but hey - maybe it's the only language you understand.


it was supposed to be a direct echo of zerone's post. i was trying to turn zerone's logic against him/her. making the point that violence + hate are not the answer.

maybe i was unclear, unnecessarily flip. the last thing i want to do is silence debate.

just got under my skin, is all.
 
 
Morlock - groupie for hire
09:52 / 08.10.01
What pisses me off is how political a strike this is. They're hitting training camps. Big deal. Kabul was evacuating ten minutes after the WTC got hit, all they're hitting is a bunch of shacks, old tyres, and a lot of sand. And probably civilians.

Anyway, they're making out as if Bin Laden is the source of all terrorism. Right.
 
 
01
09:52 / 08.10.01
quote: zerone - I'd wager that you're right about the Taliban government - they have an atrocious record of human rights abuses - but you can't tar the entire (current) six million population of Afghanistan with the same moral brush.

I'm not. Just the Taliban. Being from the west, I can't even begin to imagine what it's like for these people that have suffered 20 years of war. I understand that the airstrikes are primarily targetting millitary objectives and that there is also a humanitarian operation being conducted as well. To provide at least some relief for the refugees. Not saying that this makes everything all great, but it's sure alot better then crashing four domestic airliners full of people into the heart of Kabul. While I am not dissillusioned that innocent people are not dying in these attacks, I believe that they're not being targetted.

Auto. I agree with what your site is about (peaceful resoloution) and ultimately I'd love for a diplomatic soloution to emerge but I feel that it's impossible. We all know that the US calls the shots in the UN. Frustrating and unfair, but true. Going through UN is just red tape for them. However, for the benifit of the doubt, say they did follow proper UN procedure and go through the correct channels. What would be different? Also. How many people from your country were killed on that Tuesday? Ever seen the footage of women being hanged and beheaded in the soccer stadiums? If you were President, what would you do?

I am not forgiving the US's past record of 50+ years of brutal foreign policy. They're just as guilty as the Taliban on many occasions. I hope that eventually all of their transgressions are brought to light. However, I'm sick of seeing innocent people being killed and oppressed. No matter what part of the world they're from. Although I've never been a fan of Bush and the rest of the hit squad, and I think their motives are never as altruistic as they appear, I believe that in this case they have provided a correct course of action. (Believe me, you don't know how much it's killing me to say that.)

Also. Anyone that can provide me with concrete info as to civilians being targetted in Afgahnistan please post it.

[ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: zerone ]
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
09:52 / 08.10.01
Zerone, you don't seem to be getting it. No one is saying the Taliban are lovely people. Some of us (myself included) do take issue with idiocy like 'violence is the only language they understand'. I, personally, have grave doubts that about the effectiveness of this attack, let alone the morality. I think it may be a total fuckup. We shall see.

It may be necessary to make the point that you don't mess with the US. It may be necessary to make that point to the citizens of the US itself to avoid a global recession which would actually cost more lives than the strikes may.

But violence alone will do nothing, whatsoever, to end this. Nada. Zip. Chi hai toko imbaat yegoro. Piss all.

Amazingly, we're going to have to sort out the mess we made of the arab world between 1900 and now...and we may have to do more than that...
 
 
Ganesh
09:52 / 08.10.01
I'd just hopped on the Edinburgh-London train when this happened - and, not having easy access to television or Internet, have been pretty much dependent on Radio 4 and the World Service.

In a funny sort of way, my gut reaction (as opposed to intellectual response) was actually relief. Some idiot TV presenter last week said something along the lines of 'what a terrible war - when will it ever start?' and I think the expectant waiting has got to me more than I realised. I'm aware this isn't what you'd call a rational response...
 
 
The Damned Yankee
09:52 / 08.10.01
quote:Originally posted by Cherry Bomb:
Oh and they're leaving the FUCKING FOOTBALL on in spite of this!!



Funny thing. Right after they got done playing the message from bin Laden about how no Americans will be safe, etc. etc. they went right to the Eagles/Cardinals game. On the news this morning (I don't like football, so I didn't watch the game itself) they showed a clip of Dubya's mug on the screen making his speech and the crowd was cheering like it was the Super Bowl.

Or a rally.
 
 
Jackie Susann
10:06 / 08.10.01
A couple of weeks ago somebody told me they reckoned the US would time the start of the bombing to make the prime time Sunday night news, as they did during the Gulf War. I'm not sure, but it appears they were right. Anyone in the US tell me if that's true?
 
 
sleazenation
10:22 / 08.10.01
another note on the coverage as i stubled in to watch BBCnews24 I notice all the newscasters and weather crew were all wearing something red. i'm not sure if this was to fit in with the corporate colours was a massive coincidence or what, but i sure noticed it
 
 
000
10:41 / 08.10.01
http://strip.colorado.edu/~morristo/taliban.html this is not what the real Islam is about, what you are reading is the Islam dominated by men, the men could not sit and live according to female teachings, their ego’s could not handle this . But still in our time we have the true Islam still alive, and its this true Islam religion that they are fighting. Revalation. The Taliban is patriarch Islam and not matriarch Islam

quote: by ZeroneViolence is the only language that they seem to understand

No Zerone, that is not true, and you should refrain from believing this to be the case. Your government, The USA and allies, want desperately for the people to believe, that it’s the only language they will understand. No and No. The ruling parties need this war, the New World Order need this war, IMF needs this war, Russia needs this war. They need to be able to depopulate our planet, we have passed the number of 6 billion people on the 911 ( did anybody check this?) we have about 4 billion people costing them money and they do not want to pay anymore. The people have become so sick and as such they have become worthless to them.
Lies every were you look, your charity institutions have never been about charity, your human rights group are not all into saving the people, they can enter countries under the flag of charity and mean while they cause more suffering to these people and they make tapes and send them to all the governments who employ these people to spy and to give them material , that they, the governments, can alter and change, and show the people in their countries how bad things are in these countries, and thereby justifying their actions of war and crimes, and asking the people to donate money for these poor people who are suffering in these countries. Its all about $$
Believe me when I tell you that there are incredible amounts of lies circulating around about Afghanistan and Iraq and Iran ( anyone noticed how close the bombings are to the boarders of these countries?) all these lies come from your governments and from the Industry who desperately wants what is laying in Iran. Afghan, Iran, IRAQ mmmmm.. IRAQ – Amman right next to YÊRUSHALAYIM sounds like.. history is catching up on us.
This would also give them a change to loose some missiles, direction Somalia and Ethiopia and killing all these people who they did not manage to starve to death, how convenient for them. China also benefits, loose some missiles to the other side and Bang oops sorry, they will then say, Tibet is gone. Tibet is costing China way to much, and whatever they do and have done, the Tibetan people are still there. So of course China backs Bush up, the reason why they first hesitated, was because they needed reassurance from the US and England, that they would not bomb in vain on China, you know he who kills animals and children, like they do, and he who beats and rapes women, and sells his own, will seldom be a man of courage.
Hello, Zerone are you there?

quote: by ZeroneAuto. I agree with what your site is about (peaceful resoloution) and ultimately I'd love for a diplomatic soloution to emerge but I feel that it's impossible.

Now now, what happen to your soul? Why do you doubt so much, its because you don’t believe in the people? Yet you believe in war proclaimed by people?

quote: We all know that the US calls the shots in the UN. Frustrating and unfair, but true. Going through UN is just red tape for them. However, for the benifit of the doubt,

Benefit of the doubt? You give this to the UN, the same people who have depopulations plans and have been acting them out since… and as 1986 non stop? But you cant give this to those they call their enemy? Doubt means fear and fear means WAR!

quote:say they did follow proper UN procedure and go through the correct channels. What would be different?

No excuses for war, tagging, and they would have lost lots of money.

quote:How many people from your country were killed on that Tuesday? Ever seen the footage of women being hanged and beheaded in the soccer stadiums?

How many people are killed by your government daily in all these 3 world countries? How many children and youngsters die every day in the States because of your governments rules and desires? How many people disappear yearly in your own country?

So you buy that they show you these footage, without wondering were did all these cameras come from so quick? You behave just like they want you to behave, you feel anger for what they, the bad boys called the Taliban, did. You are being brainwashed into believing that the only solution is war. But what you are getting is imprisonment of your own freedom. Zerone don’t be a fool, and start believing in the power of humans, start believing that there is a way out of this, if we the people team up together, the US people and the Europeans. We will have 2 sides which are being formed already out on the streets, think carefully on which side you are going to stand. You have to choose between the side called War and the side called Peace. It will be presented to you in the form of a little tag. Think, one side will loose the other side will win.

quote:If you were President, what would you do?

Ask Cindy Crawford that question, ask her this question in X years from now. ( yes this is a prediction)

quote:However, I'm sick of seeing innocent people being killed and oppressed. No matter what part of the world they're from.

Saying this means that you should shoot your government, they knew, they knew way before, they helped , they staged it, they needed it, etc Hello Zerone piiieeep calling earth, THEY KNEW, YOUR GOVERNMENT KNEW. So its ok for your government to get their people out of WTC and the Pentagon? Check the employment list for that day, see who is missing, see how many people took a holyday or just a day of or called in sick. If there is anything that can wake you up, than it should be this list. No I can not lead you or anybody to that list, but its on the net. Hint, Not the US news/government websites, Not freedom sites for the US people, go a bit mmmm.. lets say oriental.

quote: Although I've never been a fan of Bush and the rest of the hit squad, and I think their motives are never as altruistic as they appear, I believe that in this case they have provided a correct course of action.

Ah , a true soldier of the US government “they have provided a correct cause of action”

quote: (Believe me, you don't know how much it's killing me to say that.)

So there is still hope then. Don’t whish for war don’t think it’s the only way. War kills only innocent people all the time, war means US and Europe and China and Russia and the Arab countries. Count the numbers of innocent and poor people, count their children and their elderly, why should they have to die just, because you believe that your government provided the right course. Its because of your believe and all people like you that our governments can do what they have planned years ago.

But you know what, its people like “Auto. I agree with what your site is about (peaceful resoloution)” who will make the difference. And its because of people like AUTO, that Bush and friends will loose. And you know why? Because every day many Auto’s are born and take the right actions.

Sincerely and please wake up, you have a choice , still. Make the right decision.
 
 
bio k9
11:39 / 08.10.01
My question is for everyone that wants to tell Zerone how wrong he is. (Maybe Laila already answered this, I wouldn't know).

What should the U.S./U.N. be doing instead of bombing the Taliban? I just say on the news the Taliban says 20 civilians were killed in the bombings. Not great but who would have thought it would be less than two dozen? Not me.
 
 
Bill Posters
12:14 / 08.10.01
Travalger Sq, London, from 1800 tonight. Hope 2 c some of ya's there.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
12:19 / 08.10.01
quote:Originally posted by zerone:

From Dee Vapr;
...you can't tar the entire (current) six million population of Afghanistan with the same moral brush.

I'm not. Just the Taliban.


Phew, it's a damn good thing that the Americans and British can program their missiles and bombs so that they'll only hurt people that are card carrying members of the Taliban but will not hurt the innocent women and children...
 
 
Seth
12:37 / 08.10.01
Who's seen Top Secret? (silly spoof from the makers of Airplane!)

There's a scene where one character opens fire with a machine gun, shooting indiscriminately into a room, and only the Germans drop down dead. What seems silly on the big screen is being sold to a lot of people as fact.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:45 / 08.10.01
Nice analogy, ex.

quote:Originally posted by Bio K-9, the Judgmental Jigger:
I just say on the news the Taliban says 20 civilians were killed in the bombings. Not great but who would have thought it would be less than two dozen? Not me.


Except that it's been made very clear that these were only the first wave of strikes that will go on for weeks, if not longer. And then there's the small matter of all those refugees who are going to start dying in large numbers once the winter kicks in...
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
12:54 / 08.10.01
quote:Originally posted by Laila:
Hello Zerone piiieeep calling earth, THEY KNEW, YOUR GOVERNMENT KNEW. So its ok for your government to get their people out of WTC and the Pentagon?


Damn, I keep telling myself not to do it, that trying to argue with Laila is a waste of time, but just when I thought I got out, they pull me back in. It must be love.

Are you not thinking of Oklahoma? The WTC was a commerical building, there wouldn't BE many Government people in there. And there were people lost in the Pentagon as I recall, but they were already evacuating when the plane hit.

And as far as I'm aware mainstream Patriacal Islam doesn't condone the Taliban either, they're just reading through the lines as much as right-wing Christians. Not sure Matriacal Islam even exists.
 
 
Naked Flame
14:18 / 08.10.01
What should they be doing instead of bombing?

here are some wild ideas.

First off, drop some troops into the Northern Alliance areas, with no offensive remit, to clear landmines and establish safe areas for people to survive the winter.

Secondly, make food and medical aid available to those who cross over into NA areas and give up their guns- as opposed to allowing refugees to pile up against a locked border.

Thirdly, diplomatically isolate the Taliban- this has already started with Pakistan's U-turn from being its biggest supporter, and the effects were starting to show. They conscripted 300 000 men and then couldn't feed or pay them, so most left soon after.

The taliban have created a regime which is not just sick twisted evil and wrong, but non-sustainable. They refuse to allow 50% of the population to work and deny them basic human rights. They don't have enough food to last the winter. If they are deprived of aid and ordinary Afghans are at last offered the choice to create a viable alternative, the Taliban will wither and die.

Look at reports of demos and such in Pakistan and ask yourself whether bombing feeds or starves those pro Bin Laden factions.

'What if they gave a war, and nobody came?'
 
 
01
14:19 / 08.10.01
quote: My question is for everyone that wants to tell Zerone how wrong he is. (Maybe Laila already answered this, I wouldn't know).What should the U.S./U.N. be doing instead of bombing the Taliban? I just say on the news the Taliban says 20 civilians were killed in the bombings. Not great but who would have thought it would be less than two dozen? Not me.


Me neither. I thought it was going to be much higher. I feel just as terrible about these twenty people's deaths as I do about the six thousand that died on 9/11. And about the thousands that have died at the hands of the Taliban. BUT to reiterate Bio's question. What should the US/UN be doing?
 
 
01
14:38 / 08.10.01
Looks like Flame beat me to the punch. Finally, someone who has some concrete soloutions to offer.

I like some of your ideas, however, I question the feasibility of the northern mountainous terrain being capable of holding close to six million refugees.

Also, is diplomatic and economic isolation the correct response. The Taliban is already pretty islolated. I fear that imposing economic sanctions against it only serve to prolong the misery of the already suffering masses of refugees. Do we want to turn this into another Iraq? Look what ten years of sanctions have done to their people. I believe that the Taliban must be overthrown as quickly as possible, and unfortuntely it seems as if air strikes are the best way to accomplish this.
 
 
mondo a-go-go
14:52 / 08.10.01
air strikes aren't helping iraq, are they? and they're still going on daily.
 
 
reidcourchie
15:09 / 08.10.01
Originally posted by Bio K-9
What should the U.S./U.N. be doing instead of bombing the Taliban?

I honestly don't know. I do know this, there is only two ways to deal with terrorism. Well one way but two methods. You have to remove their support base.

The two ways to do this?
The first is to completely and totally wipe out the society that the terrorists come from. That would mean killing every man woman and child in the middle east, north africa, many areas of asia and of course the west as well.
The second way is to address the issues that cause terrorism and that means seriously looking at the 1st world's (and not just America's) foreign policy.
Zerone, which one do you prefer? Unless you can offer any other solutions which don't involve creating more terrorist which is exactly what we are doing at the moment. You have seen the Pakistan footage, yes?

Osama bin Laden is a product of Western Foreign policy. He is able to exist due to our post cold war betrayal of the country of Afghanistan (not the ruling party but the country itself) and our actions in the Gulf.

I have a question. Why is bin Laden still denying his culpability in the 9/11 attacks? I don't see how things can get much worse for him and if even a fraction of the stories about middle eastern support for the attacks are true he could have a lot more to gain from admiting it.

[ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: reidcourchie ]
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
15:14 / 08.10.01
Mmmm. I was under the impression that air strikes were used to kill people rather than to help them. Are they fluffy air strikes?

Reading about the 'proof' that Bush/Blair have that bin Laden/Al Quaida are responsible for New York and Washington... it's all circumstantial crap, apparently (three out of the nineteen hijackers had links with Al Quaida, and stuff). Apart from some confidential stuff that they can't tell us right now, because we're not ready. But apparently the secret stuff is the clincher.

Does this remind anyone else of the Greenland posse? Are the government mental to think we're going to fall for this?

Seriously - anyone more tuned in than me... is there any actual evidence that bin Laden was in any way responsible for what happened a few weeks ago? Or are the current bombings a huge fucking rationalisation?
 
 
Not Here Still
15:27 / 08.10.01
They're doing it again.

Oh and Laila, please tell me you haven't fallen for that rumour which was going round some conspiracy sites about Jews not being in the WTC that day.
 
 
Naked Flame
15:34 / 08.10.01
This just in: UN suspends Afghan food aid.

quote: I question the feasibility of the northern mountainous terrain being capable of holding close to six million refugees.

Also, is diplomatic and economic isolation the correct response. The Taliban is already pretty islolated. I fear that imposing economic sanctions against it only serve to prolong the misery of the already suffering masses of refugees.


Point taken Z, but I said nothing about sanctions. The taliban have been able to survive so far because (a) they effectively imposed martial law, and (b) they've been propped up by support from a few countries, most importantly Pakistan. Removing that support does not equate to sanctions against the country. My point was that deprived of that support their power base was already beginning to crumble.

As to 6m+ refugees in the mountains- yep, bad idea, but I'd imagine that under those circumstances it wouldn't be just the mountains for very long.
 
 
mondo a-go-go
15:38 / 08.10.01
off topic -- well, more of a tangent, really: flame, are you at work or at home? i'm just about to grab summat to eat before i go out to meet the others for the peacenik vigil in trafalgar square. you coming? if you're still at work, i'll pick you up on the way....
 
 
Hieronymus
15:49 / 08.10.01
quote:Originally posted by Jack The Bodiless:


Does this remind anyone else of the Greenland posse? Are the government mental to think we're going to fall for this?

Seriously - anyone more tuned in than me... is there any actual evidence that bin Laden was in any way responsible for what happened a few weeks ago? Or are the current bombings a huge fucking rationalisation?


You're not alone, Jack. I have a firm suspicion the American government's findings probably points to only those individuals who died in the hijackings as the genuine culprits of this act. So, naturally being a vengeful country when our ego is pricked, we look to lay blame somewhere. And given that Bin Laden in all likelihood was the guy who gave Mohammed Atta and his thugs their first start in the world of terrorism and religious fanaticism, the US naturally wants to pummel Bin Laden in retaliation. That's like executing the writer of the Turner Diaries for the Oklahoma City bombing. Not that Bin Laden is a saint. But he's never shown apprehension in claiming his acts before. The US base in Somalia for instance.

What distresses me so much is there is little or no concrete evidence that Atta directly took his orders from bin Laden and the majority of Arab countries are reluctantly signing onto this "coalition" while secretly awaiting this phantom irrefutable evidence. Why is it so inconcievable that the hijackers did this on their own? They were all wealthy, educated citizens of various Arab states, their cells are notorious for operating independent of each other and it didn't take much but our naivety and their simple planning to bring this all together. Box knives. Sheesh.

But, as we Americans tend to do, somebody's gotta pay <shakes fist in the air>.

Though the fact we're going back to our usual tactics of throwing bombs willy nilly and not rolling up our sleeves and getting in there with ground troops disturbs me to no end. They can throw all the aid they want. But if the needy are all dead from our oh-so smart bombs and the bandits are still in hiding, what the fuck's the point?

Grrr.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
16:01 / 08.10.01
Yeah. That's what I thought. Oh look! Faith in human nature disintegrating again. Lovely.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
16:04 / 08.10.01
the BBC did have a dossier online a few days ago, don't know whether this was full and unexpurgated or just the highlights with 'sensitive' information taken out. It was (at a guestimate) several pages long and most of it was "this is the shit they've done in the past, repeated several times in different ways". If you had the supreme patience to make it through to the end then they had the 'evidence' that Bin Laden did it. And no matter how hard I try to get into Blair's mindset, the technical terms are 'highly circumstantial' and 'utter, utter bullshit'.
 
 
01
16:07 / 08.10.01
Originally posted by Naked Flame:

quote: I said nothing about sanctions
No you didn't. My mistake. What you said was "...They don't have enough food to last the winter. If they are deprived of aid and ordinary Afghans are at last offered the choice to create a viable alternative, the Taliban will wither and die."

I don't know if cutting off food and aid over the winter is such a great idea. Will it foster anti-Taliban sentiment or will it only create more militant, determined and ultimately more dangerous terrorists? A cold, miserable winter is a long time to build up alot of hatred.


Also. Stay safe at the vigil. Hope it goes smooth.

[ 08-10-2001: Message edited by: zerone ]
 
 
Not Here Still
16:17 / 08.10.01
"Evidence" from the Downing Street website.
(apparently they have had to put up a new site cos so many people want to see this it's crashing theirs)

I have a theory, which may get me flamed - but I'll try anyway.

The UK and US governments are not trying to target innocent civilians in this conflict.

They are *honestly* trying to target 'military' or 'terrorist' installations only.

Now don't get me wrong; I don't trust them as far as I could throw them.
But they are walking quite a fine line, diplomatically, and they don't want to push the conflict over the edge and turn a number of Muslim countries against them by killing civilians.

However, the Northern Alliance is also still fighting a war.
If the Alliance exploit the confusion - which is quite possible - then a war situation, including the deaths of innocents, will still follow; the Taliban may be toppled; and the West has 'clean' hands.

It's just an idea.
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
18:47 / 08.10.01
quote:Originally posted by Sidney Sometimes:


Though the fact we're going back to our usual tactics of throwing bombs willy nilly and not rolling up our sleeves and getting in there with ground troops disturbs me to no end. They can throw all the aid they want. But if the needy are all dead from our oh-so smart bombs and the bandits are still in hiding, what the fuck's the point?


I fail to see your logic...you'd rather risk hundred, thousands of soldiers in an operation that is less likely to work than not risk a single one in an operation with extremely high chances of success? It's also more likely that more Afghans would die in a ground attack situation than in a surgical airstrike with clearly defined targets (all of which are Taliban/military).
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
18:55 / 08.10.01
I am curious as to why some of you are so eager to defend Osama Bin Laden, and give him the benefit of the doubt...even if he in fact has no connection to the 9/11 events, can you please tell me why he SHOULDN'T be taken down regardless? Particularly in light of him making proclamations that people in the US will never feel security again til Israel is crushed and Palestine feels a great peace (fat chance of either).
 
 
MJ-12
19:06 / 08.10.01
Well, Bin Laden is a Bad Man, and the world may well be better off without him. If he didn't have anything to do with this. i'm sure when he got the news he kicked himself, and went "airliners. Shit, why didn't I think of that? How am I going to top this one?" That being said, military action against him if he is not responsible means two things

1) we kill a bunch of people, & lose some of our own to get someone who has nothing to do with this.

2) we declare victory and those actually responsible are still walking around waiting for their next opportunity.

This is, of course, leaving aside arguments regargding international law, being a responsible member of the world community.

quote:...a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them ...
 
  

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