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"This topic is stupid and of no interest to anyone."

  
  

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Tom Coates
14:01 / 05.05.02
Is there any reason why we can't move this into The Policy so that it's not thrown down the page so quickly?
 
 
Tom Coates
07:00 / 06.05.02
So I've either bored everyone to death or said something so true that there's not even the slightest room for a comeback...
 
 
grant
17:19 / 06.05.02
This really is a policy-type thread.

Tom, your post should be archived, or FAQed, or put up instead of the legal "I read this and understand" waiver thing for registering members.

I'm thinking about the "abstract" region - i wonder if it'd be possible to "abstract" something with a poll-type fill-in-the-blanks topic arranging section....
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
17:32 / 06.05.02
Well, it's the latter, as far as I'm concerned - I think people may be avoiding this thread because of, irpony of ironies, the title (and some of the previous posts). Fancy repeating that post elsewhere - it's something we need to keep hearing, I think, all of us.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:23 / 06.05.02
I'm becoming fascinated by the negative space that the Gentle Peoples's Revolution has been creating on Barbelith lately. For example, seeding the "Gamer" threads across the Revolution has juxtaposed different approaches to and levels of thought and self-expression in a rare and fascinating way. Likewise, this thread has revealed, among other things, that the signal-noise equation, generally held as a fundamental element of most systems, is completely alien to people who might otherwise have to consider which is which.
 
 
w1rebaby
18:46 / 06.05.02
Am I mistaken, or is that a fantastically decorous way of saying "isn't it interesting when you have thickos and clever folk in the same discussion?"
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:56 / 06.05.02
That's a *wery* binary way of looking at it, my programmer chum. More that it is interesting to look at all of these elements, and crossreference the "What Barbelith?" convo, to view the board as a series of overlapping perspectival as well as social circles.
 
 
w1rebaby
19:51 / 06.05.02
Forgive me. I thought I detected the faintest hint of condescension.

I'm not entirely convinced by the "signal/noise" equations expressed here. While we should of course be aiming for as high a ratio as possible, increasing the overall bandwidth also produces more signal. Is it the case that increased bandwidth proportionately reduces the signal/noise ratio? I'm not convinced by that.

I think that a lot of proposals to increase the ratio could reduce overall bandwidth so much that the absolute signal goes down - which was why I objected to the ideas of limiting posts per day when they came up in Policy.

How much bandwidth can you process? Once you've reached that limit, your only option is to try to change the ratio. I'm certainly nowhere near my limit, I think, and better noise-detection and filtering algorithms on the part of some posters would help them keep their effective processing capacity up.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
20:47 / 06.05.02
Forgive me. I thought I detected the faintest hint of condescension.

You know, something I've noticed about you Special Board kittens is that you seem to be very attuned to the idea that people are making fun of you. Which in itself has a tendency to generate noise...
 
 
w1rebaby
20:55 / 06.05.02
I don't know what I was thinking.
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
22:28 / 06.05.02
I don't really agree, Haus, that expressing feelings of having been affronted (to whatever degree) is a mere generator of noise. In fact, I think maybe that the air of condecension (real or imagined) in the instances that I was referring to when I started this topic (which, upon reflection, tend more towards the aforementioned "novelty=validity" model than I'd originally realized) may actually be the crux of the matter, as far as I'm personally concerned.

I often abstain from writing about a lot of things here that I have an interest in but don't feel "qualified" to write about. I acknowledge the fact that I'm not as well-educated as some people on the board, and that things that are blindingly obvious to some will seem blindingly revelatory to myself and others. I have seen posts on the board at times that seemed condescending or dismissive towards others, although I'd have to plow through the archives to dig up a good and blatant example. One only has to go as far as this topic, though, to see more latent examples of this tendency in the language used by certain posters towards certain other posters. The suggestion that is sometimes made that those who feel affronted harden their hearts and swallow their tears seems somewhat unfair, particularly in light of some of the conversation currently taking place in the Objection! thread and in light of the differing degrees of respect sometimes afforded by some to others. I don't need to be molly-coddled, but I also definitely don't need to be patronized by anyone who perceives him/herself as superior to me.

I also acknowledge that disingenuousness is, I'm sure, not always intentional. Whatever the intent, though, the fact remains that comments of this nature ultimately do more harm than good, insofar as they can serve to discourage those who've been rebuffed from talking about something new and interesting to them (or old and repetitive, from the rebuffer's POV) in the future (and insofar as I can see little good that they do at all, except as a big neon-lit indicator of where the rebuffer's knowledge base lies). Again, this applies across the communication spectrum and not just in Barbelith specifically.

And an excellent post, by the way, Tom. I understand better where you were coming from in your response to Rage's thread (and where you're coming from in respect to a lot of aspects of the board), but I hope that you understand why I would still lump it in w/the very responses I'm talking about, given its context (i.e. it's location in a Conversation thread). I think that your post, though, is kind of a whole other basket of turnips and maybe should be the basis of its own thread in Policy, like you suggested.
Arthur Sudnam, II
 
 
Rage
22:49 / 06.05.02
Ok.

"The point I was making is that the person concerned thought they were being all cool and interesting, and actually they're not - when they behave in that way, they're just annoying. Nothing more than that. And it's boring. It's really really boring. And those of us who've been around a while know it's boring, because it's happened loads of times before. And every time, we've been bored by it. And every time nothing interesting has come from it except a general raising of the grumpy level around the board. "

I understand your point, and the thing is that I agree with it. Still, I didn't claim to be all cool and interesting. I was just starting a Conversation. Never would I have posted that shit anywhere else. It was as simple as that: a little tiny conversational piece of material. Nothing original. Nothing claiming to be original either. If you found it annoying, why did you even dignify it with a response?

And seriously, what the hell hasn't been talked about here anyway? Say someone wants to come in and have one of those The Masses Opinions Don't Matter Anyway discussions. They'll be blasted away with "we've talked about this a million times!" responses, and they'll end up feeling all shitty and shit. Then they'll end up leaving and putting on some extremely angry musak and maybe they'll even end up calling up Jose for some score. There goes the next NA keychain they were so eagerly looking forward to.

Is this what we really want to do to those who aren't super dooper original on a board full of Original's that they haven't even experienced yet?

I've been here for a while. Not longer than most, not shorter than most. I even consider myself somewhat of an intellectual. Still, I get bored when it's always the same blathering standardized formatical debatery. I state this. I do silly things. I piss people off. I divert. I divert without claiming to be a revolutionary. I make posts called "fighting the barebtlih power" that believe it or not are for the grain of salt taking. Nothing apologitical about them. So? And? I'm here, and so are you. What would you like to say today? Let it all out.

We all have our own things we want from this board. We all have our own opinions. There's something that's bringing us all together here, and all that hippy bullshit times 5, so let's just settle our posting differences and accept that we all live in different Posting Realities. Please? Why not try and understand the Posting Realities of others? We all make this place what it is, and complaining about posts that don't exactly bring barbelith to the next evolutionary level is no better than starting a "fighting the barbelith power" post, or even a "The Knowledge and his friend Bob" post in the first place. It's just more non-original clutter, really.

So let's give peace a chance mmmkay?

We are all one.
 
 
Cherry Bomb
02:27 / 07.05.02
The suggestion that is sometimes made that those who feel affronted harden their hearts and swallow their tears seems somewhat unfair

No for real. Did you just actually subtly namecheck these lyrics from the classic 1982 Quarterflash hit single "Harden My Heart"?

I am impressed!
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
13:51 / 07.05.02
I think people really do have different ideas about what constitutes signal and noise. And although I still think this thread belongs here, with its potential for expansion of the ideas outside the confines of the Underground, perhaps we could create a Barbecentric little brother for it in the Policy?
 
 
Ierne
14:09 / 07.05.02
so let's just settle our posting differences and accept that we all live in different Posting Realities. Please? Why not try and understand the Posting Realities of others? – Rage

So you want to "Give Peace a Chance", Rage – how very 1969 of you. Let's see how much "understanding" you have formy "Posting Reality".

I posted to your "Fighting the Barbelith Power" thread, suggesting that if you cannot deal with intellectual conversation and feel the need to "piss on" those who do (A good example of your incontinence in this matter is the
vegetarianism thread in the Head Shop), then you should take your urine somewhere more appropriate. Your response was abusive, immature and insulting, and proof that you don't have what it takes to discuss (and defend) your opinions in a coherent, intelligent manner. I really don't expect much from your response to this post either, but as I intend to add you to my ignore list, it won't matter much anyway.

I make posts called "fighting the barebtlih power" that believe it or not are for the grain of salt taking. Nothing apologitical about them. – Rage

You're trying to cover your ass and it isn't working. Nobody wants you to take off your Cool As Fuck Badge and say "I'm Sorry." What would be appreciated is if you learned to take some responsibility for your bodily excretions – that includes what comes through your fingers typing on a computer keyboard.
 
 
bitchiekittie
14:22 / 07.05.02
You know, something I've noticed about you Special Board kittens is that you seem to be very attuned to the idea that people are making fun of you. Which in itself has a tendency to generate noise...

you know, continuing along with something after a poster has apologized for a "misunderstanding" (which, really, can very reasonably be understood based on history alone) for the mere benefit of pointing out how very pointless it is - oh, Im sorry, "it contributes noise" - is the very pinnacle of hypocrisy.

the irony in the above quote is beyond laughable
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
14:38 / 07.05.02
'kittie - you do know that every time you charge blindly at his little red flags, he has a little 'rolly-eye' smily appear above his head, right? If you stopped reacting, he'd probably find it a lot less enjoyable spiking you...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:48 / 07.05.02
I suppose it would be unfair of me to suggest that by turning the conversation firmly onto me, BK has, ironically, generated noise by complaining about the generation of noise by a comment on the generation of noise? And that she has volubly taken offence and wrenched the topic off the rails by her response to a comment on how prone the special boardsters are to take voluble offence?

Yeah, thought so. I'll be good. No more irony over here. Good, honest, Bruce Springsteen-loving bluecollar sincerity from this moment on.
 
 
bitchiekittie
14:49 / 07.05.02
yeah, I know it.

but utterly Im incapable of ignoring obvious bullies
 
 
bitchiekittie
14:52 / 07.05.02
hell, haus, Im not the one preaching against it. just pointing out that for someone who claims to be so in tune with whats best for the threads of barbelith you sure are rather adept at hijacking them when it suits your needs.

I have no problems turning threads, I readily admit it. thats what conversation is good for, innit?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:55 / 07.05.02
Sure I cried when my first dog died. Wouldn't be a man on Earth who wouldn't have. Josie, her name was, and she had the most intelligent eyes you ever did see on a German Shepherd. Beautiful dog. Beautiful.
 
 
w1rebaby
14:58 / 07.05.02
My "increase the bandwidth increase the signal" suggestion is looking less and less sensible.
 
 
Ierne
15:02 / 07.05.02
but utterly Im incapable of ignoring obvious bullies – bk

There's an ignore button for that, bk.

It's precisely for such situations as you describe above.

I use it and it works. Trust me.
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
15:06 / 07.05.02
Ninety-nine out of a hundred times, I attempt to curb my "tongue" when someone here says something that rubs me the wrong way. I either try to clam up when I don't have anything nice to say (jus' like my momma taught me) or I at least make the attempt to play it cool when I'm replying. And I 'specially make an attempt to not egg the poster on. These approaches, along w/avoiding expressions of nothing but a lack of interest (thank you for the correction, Haus, by the way) can go a long way towards diminishing the noise on the board. The key, though, is to try to have respect for your fellow posters. This is going to always be a trial, though, because everyone has their own sense of what is disrespectful towards them specifically. But can we try to not let the board devolve into a series of pointed fingers and "fuck you"s and bored condescending sighs? I'm game if you are.

No for real. Did you just actually subtly namecheck these lyrics from the classic 1982 Quarterflash hit single "Harden My Heart"? -Cherry Bomb

You're darn tootin' I did.
Arthur Sudnam, II
 
 
Rage
00:16 / 08.05.02
Now I can talk behind Ierne's back! Nah-nah-nah-nah!

Teeeeeeeeeeeeheeeeeeeeeeeee.

Jeez. The piss comment was silly like hers to my post. Hypocrito? Am I missing something here? Egg shell walking I will not do, thank you.

Ass sticks! Remove them!

Fighting the Good Fight against egg shell walking here. Man oh man.
 
  

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