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The Gamer Mentality

 
 
Captain Zoom
13:42 / 01.05.02
Inspired a little by the discussion of a gaming forum in Policy, I wondered where the sterotype of the gamer has come from? I know we've all had experiences with them, hell, I do every day, but what is it about that particular subculture that seems to produce all the cliches gamers are associated with? I'm a gamer myself, but I don't think I fit any of the desriptors that might be associated with them. I guess my question is this: do the games produce the personality or does the personality already exist and is drawn to the game?

In film, gamers are portrayed as glass-wearing, sexually unattractive, smelly, sometimes overweight losers. But it hasn't always been so. Look at films from the 80's like "Midnight Madness", about college students playing a LARP/scavenger hunt. The team that ends up winning are all well-adjusted cool kids (plus young Michael J. Fox!). Or how about "Mazes and Monsters", Tom Hanks' big screen debut if I'm not mistaken. The kids in this, who take their RPG into real life, are not geeks, but intelligent kids who enjoy role-playing. But examples like this are few and far between.

What is the gamer mentality? Is it a product of the game, or is it a personality type that is predisposed to gaming?

Zoom.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:51 / 01.05.02
Hoom. Is there any Hebdige-style examination of this that could Head Shop this question up? Anyone?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:45 / 01.05.02
Here's something - From a White Wolf programmer called Mike Brucato

As a veteran of some 20-some-odd years of gaming, I know how true-yet-untrue the stereotypes can be. I've seen walking examples of all the worst gamer traits, and I've known clean-cut professionals who harbor a secret fondness for RPGs. For the most part, gamers seem to be more intelligent, resourceful and tolerant than many "average" folks but that's a big generalization. Gaming is a hobby, and anyone with a brain can play.

Even so, I've have to say that the people who choose to live up the bad stereotypes really bother me, not only because they give the hobby a bad name but because there's so much more to life than playing a 25th Level Anti-Paladin with +5 plate mail and a +10 Sword of Killing Everything in Sight. I, too, did the "geek in Mom's basement" routine, but I had a lot more fun once I outgrew that phase (at around age 16).

And every once in a while I run across the truly frightening minority of gamers who actually believe that what they play is (or should be) real. These people are a microscopic section of the gaming subculture, but they disturb me deeply. Once in a while, I get letters asking me to teach someone "REAL magick." While I'm always careful to send these people off with a warning about the line between fantasy and reality (and an admonition that one should NEVER ask strangers for magical training), those incidents keep me conscious of the role I play as an entertainer... and of the responsibility that role sometimes entails.

 
 
Lurid Archive
14:49 / 01.05.02
wow. 25th level anti-paladin. cool.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:00 / 01.05.02
And more abstracts...:

Role-Playing Gamers

Abyeta, Suzanne and James Forest. "Relationship of Role-Playing Games to Self-Reported Criminal Behaviour." Psychological Reports 69 (3, pt. 2) (1991): 1187-1192.

This is one of numerous studies of role-playing games (including Dungeons and Dragons and other games) that consider popular belief that these games impair players' ability to distinguish between reality and ultimately finds nothing to support the belief. The article cites several previous studies to establish the lack of any empirical evidence for this belief, or for the contrasting belief of role-playing game supporters that the hobby attracts particularly imaginative and intelligent persons. Abyeta and Forest's study expands on previous work by focusing on personality and socioeconomic measures of both role-players and non-role-players, and the subjects' involvement in criminal activity. Their study is based on evaluation of a questionnaire given to 20 male and female students at the University of Manitoba who were involved with role-playing games and 25 male and female psychology students with no experience with the games. The study finds no significant connection between role-playing games and criminal activity. The only significant difference it does identify between role-players and non-role-players is a slightly higher incidence of psychoticism among the non-role-players; this difference is acknowledged as a possible fluke of a small sample size, but also as a topic worthy of future study.

Carroll, James L. and Paul M. Carolin. "Relationship between Game Playing and Personality." Psychological Reports 64 (1989): 705-6.

The scope of this study includes not only fantasy adventure games such as Dungeons and Dragons, but also card games, board games, and videogames. The article cites conflicting previous literature in the discipline, some of which identifies emotional passivity, underachievement, and less interpersonal sensitivity among players of videogames, while others find that game-playing fosters autonomy, logical thinking, and conflict resolution skills. A questionnaire was given to 75 college students and to members of a games club. Like many such studies, this one finds the personalities of game players to be "normal and even mundane."

Carter, Robert and David Lester. "Personalities of Players of Dungeons & Dragons." Psychological Reports 82(1) (1998): 182.

This study further explores a suggestion in previous research (by Douse and McManus, below) that players of fantasy role-playing games are less empathic and more introverted than control groups. Carter and Lester administered the Eysenck Personality Inventory and Beck Depression Inventory to 20 men who played Dungeons and Dragons and compared their scores to control groups of male undergraduates. The scores on all scales resembled those of the control groups.

Dear, William. The Dungeon Master: the Disappearance of James Dallas Egbert III. London: Sphere, 1984.

This is a sensationalized account of the much-publicized search for a young computer genius in 1979. The author, William Dear, was the private investigator who conducted the search. Dear initially speculated that the sixteen-year-old's disappearance might be related to his enthusiasm for Dungeons and Dragons; searchers looked for Dallas Egbert in the steam tunnels under the Michigan State University campus on the hypothesis that he was playing a version of D&D there. Facts eventually came to light proving that Egbert's disappearance had nothing to do with D&D, but Dear's often inaccurate account of the boy's involvement with gaming, computers, and science fiction did much to arouse public suspicions of role-playing gamers.

DeRenard, Lisa A. and Linda M. Kline. "Alienation and the Game Dungeons and Dragons." Psychological Reports 66 (3, pt. 2) (1990): 1219-1222.

This is yet another study in response to claims by media and the public regarding Dungeons and Dragons. DeRenard and Kline focus particularly on claims that the game causes its players to become detached and alienated from family, friends, and society. The researchers administered a questionnaire containing the Anomia Scale to 35 members of a campus role-playing club and to 35 psychology students who had never played the game. In most respects, there were no significant differences between the results of the two groups. However, contrary to popular claims, fewer game players reported feelings of meaninglessness than did the control group; DeRenard and Kline hypothesize that the club itself may have given its members a sense of purpose. The study does find that those relatively more involved in Dungeons and Dragons, evaluated as such by the amount of money they spent on game materials, reported more feelings of alienation. The article suggests as a topic of further study whether D&D causes such players to become alienated, or if these persons were alienated prior to playing and chose to play in hopes of finding a sense of purpose.

Douse, N.A., & McManus, I.C. "The Personality of Fantasy Game Players." British Journal of Psychology 84 (1993): 505-509.

Douse and McManus's psychological study investigates whether particular personality types can be associated with players of fantasy role-playing games. Thirty-eight players responded to a set of questionnaires: 35 male and 3 female with an average age of 21.5 years. The four standardized personality questionnaires were the Bem Sex-Role Inventory, the Decision-Making Questionnaire, the Empathy Questionnaire, and the Eysenck Personality Inventory. Compared to a control group, players showed significantly lower scores on empathy, were more introverted, were more likely to describe themselves as "scientific", and rated "playing with computers" and "reading" as preferred activities. The players tended to be male with high educational levels. While this study shows a discernible difference in the personality type between gamers and others, that difference is small and can be explained as the sort of difference likely to be found between individuals engaged in any hobby or interest from the population average.

Fine, Gary Alan. Shared Fantasy: Role-Playing Games as Social Worlds. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1983.

This work combines an ethnographic study of the community of role-playing gamers (circa the early 1980's) with analysis of the conceptual framework of the games that bring that community together. The elaborate meaning system of gamers, Fine argues, constitutes a "social world", but as a leisure subculture it necessarily admits the existence of other meanings and other ties. In role-playing games, the creation of worlds and cultures is a matter of conscious artifice, but this activity is bound by its own cultural expectations.

Much of the research in this book was conducted through participation; it is clear that Fine (who had not played RPG's prior to this study) understands gaming well enough to have been accepted as part of the subculture, and that he enjoyed his involvement. The study indicates general tendencies among gamers (who most often are male, are well educated, and value nonconformity) and conflicts within their community ranging from age differences and standards of behavior to types of gaming and styles of play. Fine explores how the culture of role-playing games shapes the subsociety of gamers; for example, how the imaginative interaction of gaming resembles a tamed version of physical play, perhaps explaining the activity's appeal more to men than to women.

Inevitably, many of Fine's observations are based in Dungeons and Dragons games, but the study does acknowledge role-playing games as a broader phenomenon, giving particular consideration to the science fiction RPG Traveller and the elaborate world of the fantasy game Empire of the Petal Throne. In a profile of the latter game's creator, M.A.R. Barker, Fine compares him with J.R.R. Tolkien, another fantasy world creator; Barker, like Tolkien, is an academic, a linguist, and (though married) has long associated with a close group of male friends. These traits typify common tendencies and values among role-playing gamers.

Finally, this work analyzes the dynamics of the games themselves by extending several sociological theoretical schemes, most notably Erving Goffman's concept of "frame analysis". Games and gamers function in three different frames: the real world, the structure of game rules, and the imaginative landscape of the game world. In the complexities of gaming's world-making, Fine suggests, there is opportunity to understand how meaning is constructed in many other social contexts.

Leeds, Stuart M. "Personality, Belief in the Paranormal, and Involvement with Satanic Practices among Young Adult Males: Dabblers vs. Gamers." Cultic Studies Journal 12(2) (1995): 148-165.

Leeds comments that previous work has provided "substantial evidence that there is no difference between a gamer's personality and that of the normal population", but this study nevertheless investigates the supposed tie between role-playing games and occult or Satanic practices. Three groups of adult males were given questionnaires: 66 fantasy role-playing gamers, 26 satanic dabblers, and a control group of 125. The questionnaires were used to measure psychoticism, extraversion, neuroticism, degree of involvement in gaming or satanic practices, and belief in the paranormal. Leeds found no significant differences between gamers and the control group, while the satanic dabblers showed marked differences in psychoticism, extraversion, and belief in the paranormal. Thirty-six percent of the gamers did report that playing Dungeons and Dragons had increased their curiosity about the occult, but none of the dabblers indicated any increase in their occult interests due to gaming. Like most published scholarly work on gaming, this article offers little insight into gamers beyond a repeated vindication from popular media accusations.

Simon, Armando. "Emotional Stability Pertaining to the Game of Dungeons & Dragons." Psychology in the Schools 24(4) (1987): 329-332.

This is one of the earlier studies to consider the claims that Dungeons and Dragons is harmful to its players, and to disprove those claims. Sixty-eight D&D players volunteered for this study; they were tested with Cattell's 16 PF Test (Form C) with particular attention to Factor C, which measures emotional stability. The results indicated a healthy psychological profile for the group as a whole; the only score that was remarkable at all was a measure of "Experimenting" indicating a relatively high level of liberality and free-thinking among the group.

Simon, Armando. "Emotional Stability Pertaining to the Vampire: the Masquerade." Psychological Reports 83(2) (1998): 732-4.

Years after Simon's study of D&D players, the role-playing game Vampire: the Masquerade had become popular and was attracting the same accusations to which D&D has been subject. Simon carried out a study similar to that of his earlier one with 24 Vampire players: 8 women and 16 men, ranging from age 18 to 46. The results were entirely mundane, with even the "Experimenting" measure unremarkable this time. It is significant that this article exists at all; after more than a decade of studies in this vein, the preponderance of studies not supporting the popular suspicions of role-playing games have failed to stop those accusations.

Toles-Patkin, T. "Rational Coordination in the Dungeon." Journal of Popular Culture 20, 1 (1986): 1-14.

Toles-Patkin provides in this article one of the most wide-ranging yet concise academic considerations of Dungeons and Dragons. It begins with a history of role-playing games' origin in war games and of the creation of D&D by Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson, then explains the basics of play for those unfamiliar with the game. Toles-Patkin then applies the socialization theories of George Herbert Mead and Brian Sutton-Smith to D&D, observing that new players proceed through identifiable steps in their learning of game skills and their relationship to the roles they adopt in playing. The author next explores the social meaning of D&D using the framework of Clifford Geertz's "deep play" as well as Donald Ball and John Loy's analysis of sport as a communal effort that can extend into other areas of life. Toles-Patkin dismisses accusations against the game of being too violent or compulsive, noting that the cooperation required of D&D players promotes the social value of working together for the common good. Finally, the article examines D&D's heavy reliance on information and its initial popularity among those who had contact with information technologies: computer scientists, engineers, and scientists. Though the mystical setting of the game could offer an outlet for any feelings of ambivalence about technology, at root D&D is structured for easy coordination of differing psychological orientations into logically consistent social organizations, reflecting and supporting a rationalistic and instrumental world view.

 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
15:06 / 01.05.02
the gamer stereo type comes from the same place most stereotypes do, examples of the culture do exist
Zoom=non milk smelling Simpsons comic guy
Owner of game stor i worked in=IS THE Simsons COMIC GUY(not really, but close)

These things exist, i dont like it, i have lied about gaming to avoid it, not so much anymore since i work in geek central though.

I think of myself as ok looking, and i tear it up in a ductape suit, but i also have many chars stuffed in books alphabetically by char name.

The main idea comes from the theory that you would only RPG if you couldnt do "real" games like football or canasta, which is untrue, sometimes i play football, and during my painfull recovery i play Diablo or DnD. But a LOT of people who cant be physical, play RPG/tabletop warfare games, thats just how it is, and people latch onto those highly visible gamers, rather than the folks who run around nude at burning man and then go home a build a Magick Deck.
 
 
Polly Trotsky
17:13 / 01.05.02
Wow, the first ever thread that's been required to show papers in order to exist.

Abstracts reveal gaming is, in sum., entirely mundane: "While this study shows a discernible difference in the personality type between gamers and others, that difference is small and can be explained as the sort of difference likely to be found between individuals engaged in any hobby or interest from the population average."

Others suggest it's a leisure subculture, a'la Hebdige, and there's this: "Finally, this work analyzes the dynamics of the games themselves by extending several sociological theoretical schemes, most notably Erving Goffman's concept of "frame analysis". Games and gamers function in three different frames: the real world, the structure of game rules, and the imaginative landscape of the game world. In the complexities of gaming's world-making, Fine suggests, there is opportunity to understand how meaning is constructed in many other social contexts.

...which leads nicely to Sarah Thornton's "The Social Logic of Subcultural Capital."

since we're looking for what stigmatizes the geamer:
Subcultural capital confers status on its owner in the eyes of the relevant beholder(not that kind of beholder, geez). It affects the standing of the young in many ways like its adult [cultural] equivalent. Subcultural capital can be objectified or embodied. Just as books and paintings display cultural capital in the family home, so subcultural capital is objectified in the form of fashionable haircuts and carefully assembled record collections (full of well chosen, limited edition 'white label' twelve inches and the like).

Notice and similarities to posters you know?

Both cultural and subcultural capital put a premium on the 'second nature' of their knowledges. Nothing depletes capital more than the slight of someone trying too hard.

On Barbelith, and possibly in the streets, a Grand Theft Auto reference is more meaningful than admitting to owning the game. The latter is a prop, while the former relies on an audience in the know - where a confused "huh?" puts one out of the loop.

Thornton describes how what's in is implicitly dependent on media coverage: so DJ's, Buffy fans, or in our case theory bitches tend to be what's in. And Star Trek and gaming are out.
 
 
cusm
17:15 / 01.05.02
That it is an escapist hobby does have somewhat to do with this, I think. Gaming of any level, including professional sports, can involve one to the point of exclusion of other social outlets. I've certainly seen folks go too far with it, as with anything. Everquest being the worst, I'll have to say. I've seen people actually loose their jobs and signifigant others over that one. Its sad, but more a sign of depression or problems with the person to start with than gaming itself. I can apply the same model to people who spend a signifigant amount of their social time on-line. Its an outlet, like any other.

The stereotypes do exist however, there is no doubt of that. But the stereotype is based on the akward stage of adolescent development. Once the person matures as a person, the stereotype vanishes, regardless of if they are still an avid gamer or not. We remember the geeks from the 3rd grade who gamed, and apply that to all gamers, when really the stereotype is simply 3rd graders and not gamers at all.
 
 
Fist Fun
18:58 / 01.05.02
Well, we have already gone over this one in the The Laboratory.

I've seen people actually lose their jobs and significant others over that one.

This is founded on the idea that jobs and family should be the centre of all life. I don't agree with that. If someone is happy gaming, for example, rather than working and taking part in the nuclear family dream then that sound pretty cool to me, and by cool I mean totally sweet. You could even argue that rejection of the traditionally respected values (work, family, physical group membership) is a revolutionary step. You could probably compare a deep immersion into a gaming culture as akin to Thoreau's time in the woods.
...oh yeah, and what is with all the fat jokes? Why is overweight being spat out like the ultimate insult...maybe some people don't accept your idea of how we should look...
 
 
cusm
20:34 / 01.05.02
If someone is happy gaming rather than working, they won't be gaming for very long when the money runs out and they can't afford their Evercrack subscription. There's a slight problem to overindulgence in a hobby. If you neglect your basic survival needs for it, it becomes unhealthy. But hey, as long as you can pay the bills, if they's your only social outlet, more power to you.
 
 
Thjatsi
20:35 / 01.05.02
I would say that the whole anti-obesity thing stems from our tribal history, when food was scarce. Back then, the fact that someone else was fat meant that he was using all of the resources, and you might have starved as a result. Of course, with the abundance of food today, this isn't a major issue.
 
 
Mr Tricks
21:34 / 01.05.02
Personal Experience:

I pretty much stopped "gamming" when i discovered the social wonders of drugs! Hallucinogenics in particular... why pretend to be an elf when I can go out into the woods & meet them?

Actually, of all the friends I gamed with, the only one I really keep in touch with is the one who I'll smoke out with...on those rare occasions I'm visiting the east coast. He says, "It's the drugs that keep us friends."

So I think there's an escapest factor, as well as a sort of solidarity gained when the "geeks" can "game" together...

The computer has changed this alot... When I was gaming the MAC only just appeared.

errr... I've played the occasional hand of magic, I have a bunch of cards somewhere... I've also run around naked at burningman... but that's a different story.
 
 
Rage
21:48 / 01.05.02
Die die die mother fucker!
You wanna fuck with me?
Pow pow pow!
What's up now sucker?
Bam bam bam!
AHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Come on- fuck with me!
DIIIIEEEEEEEEEEE!
Oh shit!
POW POW POW MOTHER FUCKER!
DIE DIE DIE DIE!
Smack!
 
 
Mr Tricks
22:48 / 01.05.02
There There now....

here, smoke this...
 
 
Rage
22:58 / 01.05.02
Ahhhhhhhhhhh. Let's go chill on the couch.
 
 
Thjatsi
02:16 / 02.05.02
Everquest being the worst, I'll have to say. I've seen people actually loose their jobs and signifigant others over that one.

Apparently, there was also an Everquest Suicide as well.

As someone who actually played Everquest for three days, I have difficulty thinking of anything more absurd than someone commiting suicide over it. Getting addicted to Everquest is like getting addicted to watching the weather channel.
 
 
YNH
03:23 / 02.05.02
Not really. Or maybe exactly. Enough studies have been done regarding television addiction to merit an entry in the psychiatric logs. Give games time, and you'll see the same pattern. Moreover, the industry aims to addict the consumer, both through game design and in the boardroom: "the sign of a good game is that it's addictive." The idea is to make the player forget hir own needs for hours at a time.

From the article:

"EverQuest consumed Shawn, his family said, and the more he played, the more his mental and physical health suffered, as did his personal hygiene. Shawn was diagnosed with depression and schizoid personality disorder, the symptoms of which include lack of desire for social relationships and a limited range of emotions in social settings."

-which of course sets up a far more complex scenario than a simple Everquest Suicide.
 
 
Fist Fun
15:01 / 03.05.02
I think the immersive qualities of some gaming systems are great. Rather than being a drug like dependency they could be a viable, valid alternative to work, nuclear family, two weeks holiday a year existence. A virtual reality.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
15:08 / 03.05.02
But not, alas, a viable reality.

We approach the Pleasure Machine, boys and girls, whose most recent incarnation was the Matrix. Is it 'real'? And does it matter?
 
 
cusm
15:35 / 03.05.02
Will it eventually kill you due to neglect of your primary physical needs? If the Pleasure Box came with a lifetime subscription for food and medical treatement optimized to keep the body running for the next 70 years, does it matter? The subconscious does not know the difference between a dream memory and a living one. Reality is reality if you experience it.

But all the same, I think I'd like the option of leaving it if I wanted.

As for drugs, magick, and other persuits that render gaming obsolete, I'll have to admidt I largely still do it for the social activity of it (my group has been together for a LONG time...) with the games being about creating a story rather than slaying orcs. It fulfills the creative outlet of writing fiction, only you get to be a part of it
 
 
Fist Fun
18:24 / 03.05.02
Why isn't it viable? I think virtual reality is a natural evolutionary step.
What is so wrong with constructing a new reality that corresponds to human needs? I agree that human beings have external needs which need to be looked after, but once we can assure food, shelter, etc we look to the internal. I don't think internal human needs do need a physical reality. Love, power, play... so many things that could be enjoyed and enhanced in a virtual environment.
...and when our dependence on the physical drops to an absolute minimum that changes the whole dynamics of consumption. We wouldn't need to work to earn leisure time. Imagine the amount of human energy that would unlock. We could have a philosopher society based on technology rather than slavery.
 
 
The Monkey
18:43 / 03.05.02
Because, as we all know, drug users and magic dabblers *never* engage in wish-fulfilment fantasies and activities.

Gaming creates an alternative social paradigm that is accessible even to people who are social misfits "in real life." Even if the players are milk-smelled poor-hygiene fatbeards engaged in a round of tits-treasure-and-death, it's still a form of social engagement that generates collective meaning and solidarity, even if that meaning is not valid by intellectualized standards of value.
 
 
Mr Tricks
21:50 / 03.05.02
I'd prefer an Orgasmatron myself
 
 
Molly Shortcake
16:49 / 06.05.02
Quote:

"The idea is to make the player forget hir own needs for hours at a time."

Sounds just like my job.

Really good games create new psychological needs. Example: Protecting Yorda in ICO; like a baby or a invalid. Killing all the monsters in Silent Hill 2 - as if ones house was infested by huge disgusting insects.
 
  
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