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Sonic Youth - Murray Street

 
  

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Matthew Fluxington
00:03 / 20.06.02
Congratulations. You bought Goo, the most mediocre and dull proper album that Sonic Youth have ever produced.

Do yrself a favor, and buy/borrow/dl one of the best SY lps - Sister, Daydream Nation, Washing Machine, Evol, Murray Street - or, alternatively, private message yr mailing address to me and I will send you a cd or two of SY's best moments.
 
 
rizla mission
10:23 / 21.06.02
Hey, come off it, Goo is gorgeous!

I really think you'd be more into their early stuff though, Locust. It's a little more .. farout. Check out Confusion is Sex, Bad Moon Rising and Evol.. they will rock you.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
09:59 / 25.06.02
Well.

Set List:

Kotton Krown
Bull in the Heather
Eric's Trip
The Empty Page
Rain on Tin
Plastic Sun
Kissability
Radical Adults Lick Godhead Style
Karenology
Candle
Drunken Butterfly
Sympathy for the Strawberry
--
Disconnection Notice
Kool Thing
--
Making The Nature Scene


We got Candle for for the first time in forever or something. Very.Happy.

I can't even think of anything to type now.
I'll try and compose myself and come back later.

Suffice to say it was the best gig I've ever been to.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
11:58 / 25.06.02
Candle.


Candle.


Oh wow.


I will now pray every day that they keep Kotton Krown and Candle in the setlist for the NYC show.

Suedehead, you've got to tell us more!


edited to say:

Oh my god! They played "Skip Tracer" at the previous two shows... They are trying to drive me insane with jealousy by playing every sentimental favorite I have, aren't they?

God bless them for bringing back a Washing Machine song, and for choosing that one in specific.
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
02:05 / 27.06.02
I just thought I'd take a moment out to point out the fact that there's been no discussion of this album since it actually came out. I think that's funny, for some stupid reason...

I liked it, but I thought it kinda fell short by SY standards. Which is not to say it's bad by any means. My SY expectations just tend to be rather high, knowing what they're capable of. It reminded me of their really early stuff, filled w/waves of noise (the end of "Karen Revisited" is particularly nice). Only now, their noise tends to be more melodic, and it doesn't split my skull open quite as much as it used to.
 
 
rizla mission
09:38 / 27.06.02
Opening with Kotten Krown .. ending with Nature Scene.. I'm sooooo jealous!!

Murray Street really seems to have gathered a odd range of reactions from fans.. cruising some message boards, some seem to take Flux's view that it's their best work for ages, some think it's boring & complacent, some think it's too mainstream and others think it's too longwinded and farout.. I still hold it's another great "mature" Sonic Youth album, but unlike NYC Ghosts & Flowers it doesn't do anything to try and move their sound forward. But then, you could point to the jazz-madness in Radical Adults.. and the fade-out on Karen and take the opposite view completely. Maybe that's part of what I like about SY - whatever they're doing, it's never easy to sum it up in one sentence/opinion..

The fact it got rave reviews in Careless Talk.. and The Wire and lukewarm reviews in NME and Q should tell you all you need to know though, really..
 
 
Baz Auckland
10:15 / 27.06.02
Tuesday night's show was incredible. I only knew about 5 of the songs, but it has to be the first time in a while that I've lost track of time during a show. I must download the albums I'm missing on my return to Canada and high speed internet.

And they opened with Candle.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
10:58 / 27.06.02
I really like the new album. It's actually grown on me a lot (and I liked it before) and I had it on repeat for days. Maybe weeks, actually. It's a very warm album - actually reminds me a little of the greatful dead. The thing with SY is that they are so varied, and every album really is a different thing. However, I like most of what they've done - I have a soft spot for Goo, but then I love Washing Machine - and all the early stuff. It's just insane to think of all the stuff they've done.

This new album is definitely a sucess for me. It's poppy for a start, a really nice summery feel (The Empty Page, Rain on tin specifically) but then it's undeniably SY (Karen revisted, Radical Adults - when they played this live, the end of the track - I actually thought they were going to explode. It was so intense and it just kept getting moreso.... it was unbelievable. It seemed so insane, and now this album track has even more intensity to me, I thought it would never end - and yet it had to - and yet it carried on, and yet surely then nothing could continue to exist? or something. sorry. a bit "far out" I know. But true.) and Sympathy for the Strawberry is another song that really really grows on me (a lot of Kim's songs do) and is esspcially good when listened to late at night.

In all, it's just another great addition to the Sonic Youth repitoire. oh, and it's got a great cover too. I wish they'd slow down though, and give me a chance to catch up.

And, live, somehow, they're even better. The end of Karenology (which seems to be what they're calling Karen Revisted now) seems transformed in to an almost underwater scene, or floating around... and yet it's so amazing. You just get the feeling of driftin around aimlessly... and it's fantastic that they can emote such feeling with their music. Radical Adults just feels like it's going to pop your head. Candle, as ever is a classic. And Thurston really knoew how to tease the crowd with this one, I was sweating with anticipation, and he finally... finally said they were going to play Candle, everyone could suddenly let go and go crazy. Such relief and jubilation. Kotton Krown I was overjoyed with, Bull in the Heather took on a whole new life to me. And Thurston's gangly joking prescence is always good (to a rowdy audience member "hey, keep it in your pants, buddy!") and a perfect balance to Kim's intense moodiness (although I did laugh when Thurston was going up to her and almost kneeling with guitar solo wankery, and she just kicked him away to the crotch). Bless.

The only downside to it now, is that I didn't go to both London shows.
 
 
suds
16:15 / 27.06.02
here is my two pence:
i like the album a lot, and right away too, which is weird because s/y albums usually have to grow on me. i preferred the other version of 'plastic sun' with its britney spears references.
 
 
faintwhitelights
19:39 / 29.06.02
I got murray street a week ago.. i know i know. one of those before it was out things. but hey. the store had it. dave knew i was worthy. and it is so. but i thoroughly enjoy murray street. it feels different to me, more so than anything else they've done... and i know each record sounds different. but for a change.. the band feeeeeels different. and it's not just because jim o'rourke rocking the computer. i guess i'm horrible at describing such things.. but hey i know what i mean.

a few friends of mine are heading down to new orleans to see sonic youth perform. at tipitinas uptown no less! and the ever fun jonny stratosphere from hip musical acts such as 'man... or astro-man? clone project:alpha', 'the man made brain', and 'jonny and the shamen', might be tailing along as well!

I've never seen sonic youth before, i hear when they came to tampa with pearl jam they were sub-par but wasnt that right after all their gear was stolen? shit, if all my hot rodded stuff got jacked, i'd have trouble performing with new gear as well.. so however the performance goes, i'll just be glad to have finally gotten to see a band i've been listening to since i was a wee fifth grader. [or big fat fifth grader]. something like 9 years later... hah.


by the way... silver sessions? anyone? whats better than sonic youth going to war with a metal band in the studio next to them?
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
06:54 / 30.06.02
and it's not just because jim o'rourke rocking the computer. i guess i'm horrible at describing such things.. but hey i know what i mean.

Just for the matter of being accurate, O'Rourke doesn't do any computer stuff on Murray Street, though he did on NYC Ghosts + Flowers. O'Rourke mainly plays bass and guitar, alternating when Kim Gordon switches between the two.

I've never seen sonic youth before, i hear when they came to tampa with pearl jam they were sub-par but wasnt that right after all their gear was stolen?

Nope, they toured with Pearl Jam about a year and a half after that happened. Though I have nothing against Pearl Jam, I am highly suspicious of what any Pearl Jam fan might have to say about a Sonic Youth set, particularly one that is immediately before a Pearl Jam show. I've seen SY about 9 times now, I've seen them play a lot of different kinds of sets. I can assure you, given what the band is currently playing, you will have an incredible experience if you see them on this tour.

by the way... silver sessions? anyone? whats better than sonic youth going to war with a metal band in the studio next to them?

I'm not sure what you mean. This is the story of the Silver Sessions. I'm not too crazy about that record, it's more of a curiosity than anything else.
 
 
rizla mission
14:53 / 30.06.02
That link makes the Silver sessions sound awesome. Is it just (just?!) a MetalMachineMusic type thing? Not that there's anything wrong with that of course..
 
 
tSuibhne
18:15 / 01.07.02
Oh my, I need to hear this Silver Session thing. Sounds amazing.

Oh, and picked up Murray Street, yummy. Need to pick up tickets to the 930 club gig here in DC soon.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
02:59 / 11.07.02
All I can say is that I'm stunned that this woman is a published critic, but I'm not at all shocked that she's being published by the likes of the Village Voice.
 
 
Ethan Hawke
12:41 / 11.07.02
Well, um...she does have a few points. I too found NYCG&F incredibly boring and almost unlistenable, especially when Thurston tries to make a like a *crazy* [snaps fingers] beatnik poet, man. It's really embarrassing. Which leads me to the next thing she's right about: The lyrics - thruston's lyrics have been sucking for some time now. I can't really put my finger on why, though, as they never were all that wonderful to begin with. They've certainly become more cringe-worthy. I think it's because he's been trying to be more "poetic" and is less half-ass and cryptic (incidentally, the same thing can be said for Stipe). When lyricists like Thurston, whose strengths stemmed from the opacity and free-play of the meaning of his lyrics suddenly think that they're poets, and want to be understood ( I think the voices in SY albums are much more out in front in the mix than they used to be, starting with "Psychic Hearts") then there's trouble.
Kim's songs have been getting worse and worse since Sister. The last album that had any good KIm songs was Experimental, Jet Set Trash and NO Star." She's just locked into one ranty groove now.
Lee, as always, still manages that pose of hipster cool.
Sonic Youth has become "Sonic Youth": we know what to expect from them now, and their sound is no longer as exciting as it was. When someone tells me there's a new Sonic Youth LP out, I can pretty much guess what its going to sound like. It would be frankly amazing if they could surprise their audience now while still remaining true to themselves. Granted, Jim Orourkes' bass does add to the new record's sound.
However, overall, you're right about this particular review. It breaks all the rules of good writing (as well as good music criticism): looking up dictionary definitions, etrapolating maco-trends from personal experience, and most importantly, making me mad that someone a few years younger than me could have a review of a major artist in the village voice.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
13:02 / 11.07.02
See, I like Thurston's lyrics. I don't think that they are any better or worse now than they ever were, though the lyrics on Sister are a bit better than average for him. One thing that is very important to remember about Sonic Youth's songwriting process is that the lyrics/vocals are the very last thing written for the songs, they are almost an afterthought. I don't think the band cares too much about lyrics.

I don't think NYC G+F is embarassing at all, and I think it's a very listenable record. "Free City Rhymes" is probably one of the finest songs the band ever recorded, I think. I think it makes no sense to claim that Sonic Youth doesn't change enough, and when they do make a lot of noticeable changes like on NYC G+F, turn around and want them to go back to recording Sister Part II.

I can't agree with your assessment that there haven't been any good Kim songs since Experimental Jet Set - "Becuz" "Little Trouble Girl" and "Washing Machine" were big highlights of the Washing Machine record, "French Tickler" and "The Ineffable Me" were probably the two best songs on 1000 Leaves, "Herrineringen" from SYR2 is wonderful, "Nevermind" was the catchiest song on NYC G+F, and "Sympathy For The Strawberry" is one of the best songs on the new album. I don't think there's anything wrong with Kim.

This review aside, Murray Street is certainly the best-reviewed and best-liked album the band has produced since Daydream Nation, and I'm certainly on the "Murray Street rules" side of the road. I think every song on the record is fantastic, I especially can't see how anyone can't hear greatness in "Karen Revisited" or "The Empty Page". I find it sort of offensive that the simple fact of having a large and beloved discography stands in the way of a lot of people's enjoyment of this and other records - I see the same thing happen with each new GBV release. Murray Street stands head and shoulders above virtually every other indie-ish rock-ish record released this year, but their lack of novelty colors the way most people listen to the album. It's just not fair.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
22:06 / 11.07.02
Lee Ranaldo explains "Kool Thing Merzbow", performed last night in Hamburg, via Sonic Youth.com's concert archives:

Lee explains "Kool Thing Merzbow":
the second version---cm'on did noone at the gig notice:?---devolved into white noise just before the 'rap' section was to begin. gtrs were immediately leaned on amps and band left stage to huge pulsing din, which remained for 20 minutes or so, while audience screamed, then was confused---loud insane roar going while crew stalked stage tearing down mikes, etc til only the amp sound remained---big droning huzz--audience hooting screams still/blending in w bass loops. wow. incredible. using the 'head' of the song as a launching pad into something completely OTHER. was one of my proudest moments in the band. ---LR


This sounds like something designed to make Rizla jump up and down with glee...
 
 
rizla mission
15:29 / 12.07.02
Yeah, that sounds great .. a bit like what Mogwai do, I suppose..

Regarding SY lyrics, I actually take the point about Thurston's being a little half-arsed every now and then .. not bad as such, but for a band who've been so groudbreaking in the past, the words to "Empty Page", "Disconnection Notice", "Sunday", "Junkie's Promise" and so on are nothing to write home about. I love it when he does his poetry and crazy word association stuff though - "Radical Adults..", "Small Flowers Crack Concrete", most of Psychic Hearts etc., and hopefully I'm not being to fanatical in saying that his lyrics throughout the '80s were almost always fantastic..

..and in my opinion Kim's lyrics have always rocked and probably always will, but there does seem to be a certain portion of SY fans who absolutely hate them..
 
 
suds
15:31 / 12.07.02
whoever said that thurstons crazy beatnik ways were embarrassing on new york city ghosts and flowers, i saw a book of poetry and one of thurstons poems was in it. and it was so lame and rip off beatnik that i wanted to cry. i forget what it was called. it really sucked.
 
 
Ethan Hawke
17:49 / 16.07.02
The Village Voice has printed a bunch of irate letters in response to the review Flux cites above.
 
 
suds
11:28 / 17.07.02
it seems that the response is all about how a young female shouldn't have been deemed worthy to review a sonic youth album, of course not! it should have been an old grizzly white man! according to vv readers.

example:
"Hey, where did you find Amy Phillips? I haven't read such vapid prose since I stole my sister's Seventeen magazine for the bra ads. So Amy's been into Sonic Youth since 1995, huh? Ever since she started high school? Wow, what a history she and Sonic Youth share."

how i hate fucking indie oldies.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
11:34 / 17.07.02
This is not about Amy Phillips being a young girl. It has to do with her being a profoundly awful writer, and a deeply unprofessional journalist.
 
 
Jack Fear
12:26 / 17.07.02
Balls.

Shrieking about a bad review is rampant fanboyism at its most odious. Get some fucking perspective.

A review, by definition, is not "journalism" as such: it is an opinion piece. One woman's opinion, in this case.

And isn't everyone entitled to an opinion?
 
 
Jack Fear
12:28 / 17.07.02
Or is she only entitled to an opinion if she's been into der Yoof for as long as you have, maaaaaan?
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
12:32 / 17.07.02
But are we are all entitled to get paid for our opinion to be printed in the Village Voice? - you'd expect them to have some standards; rather than printing dross where a girl whines about how a band should break up for fear of them not existing primarily to remind her of a bygone era of her youth.
 
 
suds
12:41 / 17.07.02
flux, i wasn't saying her review was good or bad; but i was saying that the sexism shown in the critisims of her review were shocking. i'm standing by that.
 
 
Jack Fear
12:41 / 17.07.02
Silly girls and their whining.
 
 
suds
12:43 / 17.07.02
for an example, see above.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
12:44 / 17.07.02
I think that even in opinion pieces, there is such a thing as journalistic integrity and professionalism. Phillips throws all of it out the window. Her review was not about the music, it was about herself - it was selfabsorbed, ignorant crap. My problem with the review isn't that she didn't like the album, but in her attitude, her arrogance, that she barely discussed the record at all. I have high standards for music writing, and I think that this is amazingly subpar, and I strongly feel it is not worthy of being printed by any publication, small or large. I would barely tolerate this sort of writing if it were on a message board.

I'm just about the same age as her, by the way. I think she's a year or two younger than I am. This is not about her age, or her gender. It's about her being a talentless hack.
 
 
suds
12:49 / 17.07.02
no flux, i see what you're saying.
but i have a problem with the sexist criiques (*not* yours) which are up at the village voice site.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
12:49 / 17.07.02
Suds, I just re-read the letters - where are you detecting sexism against Phillips? I don't see it - her intelligence, her taste, her writing skill, her professionalism, her youth - those are all (rightly) called into question, but no one says anything about her gender being part of the reason why her writing is so odious. Would you mind backing up your case?
 
 
Jack Fear
12:58 / 17.07.02
I have high standards for music writing...

You must be horribly disappointed on a reguylar basis.

...and I think that this is amazingly subpar, and I strongly feel it is not worthy of being printed by any publication, small or large. I would barely tolerate this sort of writing if it were on a message board.

Oh rrrrrrrrrreally.

My problem with [Phillips is] her attitude, her arrogance...

Oh rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreally.
 
 
suds
12:59 / 17.07.02
i left an example further up this thread!!!

"Hey, where did you find Amy Phillips? I haven't read such vapid prose since I stole my sister's Seventeen magazine for the bra ads. So Amy's been into Sonic Youth since 1995, huh? Ever since she started high school? Wow, what a history she and Sonic Youth share. I can see why she's upset—seven years later and she realizes they're old and not cool anymore."

"Maybe when she stops having what is apparently an early-twenties life crisis she can review albums more objectively."

"Is it my imagination or is Amy Phillips's review a rewrite of a Gina Arnold review from four years ago? Phillips's review shares the same general tone of a woman wronged by her youthful enthusiasms."

flux, please let it be known that her review didn't piss me off or please me. it was a review. you know? thats how i saw it. i just really think that a lot of the critisim i have read about the article online and at the village voice is all about how shes female and young and i think thats fucked up.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
13:01 / 17.07.02
You must be horribly disappointed on a regular basis.

Definitely. It's depressing.

It's gotten to the point where the only critics that I enjoy and respect are people who write music blogs. The folks who don't get paid seem to be the most professional, for some reason...
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
13:04 / 17.07.02
I see hostility in those critiques, but no value judgements about her gender. Sorry. Just referring to her as a 'woman' or 'she' doesn't implicate sexism, I'm sorry. They make assumptions about her personality, but do not put her down for the simple fact of being a female. It's pretty clear that Phillips has some personality problems - whether or not they have to do with her gender is irrelevant, and I think those writers understand that.

flux, please let it be known that her review didn't piss me off or please me. it was a review. you know? thats how i saw it.

I don't think it's a review. A review discusses the content of what is being reviewed - this was a diary entry about her not getting the band anymore. I know you grew up on crap Brit music journalism, but there is a difference between what this is and a proper music review. This is sub-NME garbage, and it shouldn't be tolerated.
 
  

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