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Abortive Politics: a sub-thread

 
 
YNH
18:24 / 25.04.02
Regarding Copywrite:

Assuming that for some reason, an individual owns hir genetic sequence, Nick (in the abortion thread, with the fancy technology) posits that said ownership bears meaningfully on embryos which contain at least half of that sequence.

The discussion itself is in the embryonic stage, and none of the participants have explored whether an embryo necessarily owns its own unique sequence or the gamete donors mutually own the sequence until an untedetermined amount of time has passed. It becomes, in effect, the same old question: when does the embryo have rights?

US Law curently allows certain genetic traits and even entire sequences (in the form of stem-cells and frozen embryos) to be owned by parties not involved genetically with the new sequences. What does that mean, then, for an individual with some frozen siblings that never made it out of the fridge? Do I own my sequence only as expressed over a particular and specific period of time, or not at all?

In either case, the case for ownership of one's own genes seems, in the present context, shakey; and by extension so does that avenue for granting rights to embryos.

Regarding Contract:

In an effort to broaden the discussion, I suggested that contract law might be more applicable to the question of parantal rights. Invariably (here esp.) the question of "fathers' rights" to a developing embryo enters the discussion in response to a woman's bodily sovereignty. Rather than discussing what happens after conception, perhaps all should be decided based on what happens beforehand. Unless contractually stated by both parties "We intend to conceive, and further to allow the embryo to develop from zygote to adulthood," then "fathers' rights" should by a non-issue.

Nick notes that such a situation, depending on the legal or moral definitions involved, may necessarily include a third party.

...which brings us around to hir original point: that an artificial womb may supercede the abortion debate by providing a safe alternative to terminating embryonic development.

At which point it might be pointed out that The above questions of Copywrite and/or Contract might become either increasingly relevant (the right to determine whether ones own sequences are passed on) or completely irrelevant (the rights of our third party.)

Given that Capital always needs new blood or territory, the artificial womb in the hands of a state or corporate entity which has exclusive decision making power over reproduction seems, to put it mildly, icky. Haus succintly notes that supply might outstrip demand for adoptees, while Nick suggests that a systemic social overhaul might eliminate such concerns. All I have to add is that a "solution to abortion" only contributes to overpopulation and provides a steady stream of workers and consumers; an artificial baby boom.

If Capital is allowed to extend its reach into the womb, its only a few steps to science fiction from there. A dream for State Capitalist or Coporate Consumer societies, a totalitarian nightmare for individuals.

Any thoughts?
 
 
SMS
19:52 / 25.04.02
Unless contractually stated by both parties "We intend to conceive, and further to allow the embryo to develop from zygote to adulthood," then "fathers' rights" should by a non-issue.

A father legally has obligations to the child after its birth until its adulthood. Presumably, birth is the point at which the father may practically contribute to the well-being of the child. This is the case even he never had any intention of having a child, and had used birth control. It seems inconsisent to claim that he should have no rights without a contract.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:03 / 25.04.02
Just to clarify:

"Copywrite" is a verb describing the act of producing copy text, usually for advertisements or marketing material.

"Copyright" is the legal systems whereby people are entitled to benefit from the use of things they have created or invented.

I think it's possible that both of these might be useful or functional metaphors in this discussion (as a copywriter creates something but generally has little control over how it is ultimately presented to the world), so it's not just pedantry, this once - it may be worthwhile to keep the meanings straight.
 
 
YNH
00:34 / 26.04.02
Actually, I make those kinds of mistakes (though in this case I should offer thanks for expanding possible meanings) all the time, but unfortunately we can no longer alter our own posts without some tape.

SMS: I'm not too concerned about consistency within our current legal framework... but thanks for clearing up the point about "fathers' rights" while an embryo is still in utero.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
09:23 / 26.04.02
YNH:

All I have to add is that a "solution to abortion" only contributes to overpopulation and provides a steady stream of workers and consumers; an artificial baby boom.

If Capital is allowed to extend its reach into the womb, its only a few steps to science fiction from there. A dream for State Capitalist or Coporate Consumer societies, a totalitarian nightmare for individuals.


I can't help but feel that you're casting a familiar nightmare in your own ideological terms here. An artificial baby-boom could, as Haus pointed out, overload the liberal democratic capitalist state's coping mechanisms. That could lead either to the revelation that such a state is far less caring-and-sharing than it wishes to appear (and perhaps, at long last, to the formation of a genuine, conscious proletariat...) or to the state being forced to reformulate itself more positively.

But your hinted Brave New World-ish nightmare is hardly uniquely capitalist, as far as I can see. Nightmares with their feet in Marxism have demanded an increase in childbirth, too.

I'm going to have to formulate an actual 'what I think' about this, which means ar root figuring out exactly where I stand on abortion and why...that's not going to be easy...
 
 
YNH
17:35 / 26.04.02
That last bit - "all I have to add" - really was irresponsible scare-mongering now that I think about it.

The proposed and presumably involuntary extraction of the embryo seems unethical on many counts: as stated above, a state seizure of the reproduction of labor power; an invasion of privacy; and a revocation of the right to choose. It is at the very least unnecessary (unless we decide abortion is flat out wrong); and at worst a violation of the body and what some consider essential freedoms.

There's also that tricky answer I suggested in the other thread: Why not Clamp male tubes (easier, more efficient, less invasive) until such time as an individual desires to reproduce. That could probably begin to solve some "social ills" all by itself. This should be part and parcel of the dialogue.
 
  
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