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Queer heroes

 
  

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grant
13:03 / 18.04.02
i'm sure there was a thread on this previously, but I can't find it.

looking up the Great Lakes Avengers, I came across this site:
http://www.gayleague.com/gay/characters

As you might guess from the address, it's a database of gay, lesbian, bi and transgendered superheroes - with a special section of heroes who were gay for a while, then got retconned for straightness.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
16:43 / 18.04.02
do i need to read annotations again or did they make up all the stuff about watchman hooded justice?

OK i just read that danny the street is a tranny WTF is this?
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
16:47 / 18.04.02
Did you not read Doom Patrol, Elijah?

Much was made of the fact that Danny was a transvestite, ie, all of the shops on the street were "macho" (army navy shops, athletic supplies), but femme'd up and made camp.

Mmm. I should email the person who put that together and remind them that Kate/Coagula from Rachel Pollack's Doom Patrol was a transexual...
 
 
moriarty
16:58 / 18.04.02
The Gay league is great, but what I really love about this thread is this...

"looking up the Great Lakes Avengers"

Grant, you're welcome in my treehouse anytime.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
17:01 / 18.04.02
ahhh
see, im missing issues, only danny the street i have is a bit around the flex appearences
ok, but what about the guy from watchmen?
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
17:03 / 18.04.02
also, how do they have fanny and not jolly rodger?
 
 
sleazenation
17:23 / 18.04.02
Danny the street is also a bit of a pun on prominent British transvestite Danny La Rue (street= la rue- geddit?)
 
 
grant
17:30 / 18.04.02
The Hooded Justice thing is straight from the book - there were widespread rumors about him and one of the other heroes, and one of the women (Silk Spectre, probably) comes out and says their "relationship" was just staged to make him look good.
 
 
The Monkey
19:05 / 18.04.02
There was a homosexual male character from a Star Trek comic book on there (aptly named after Mishima). And the book tanked two issues later.

I like to think scifi geeks are a little more open-minded. Oh well.
 
 
Ganesh
22:19 / 19.04.02
Danny La Rue was actually a female impersonator - a drag act. I don't think he was actually a transvestite...
 
 
klint
02:42 / 20.04.02
Elijah, read the texts at the end of the issues again.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
09:25 / 20.04.02
Have we actually had the discussion in the Head Shop of when drag becomes transvestite and the other way round?
 
 
Ganesh
09:51 / 20.04.02
Not that particular angle, Loz. Don't think so, anyway.
 
 
Cat Chant
12:43 / 20.04.02
John Constantine is of uncertain orientation? John "I'm a bloke me, I fancy girls" Constantine? Have I been reading the wrong issues?

More info, please.

Howcum Shade isn't listed as of uncertain orientation?
 
 
Sax
14:21 / 20.04.02
Maybe they got the idea from that pic of JC on his profile where he looks as though he's about to be snogged by Richard the Lionheart...

And "Attractive Lad"?
 
 
Sax
14:24 / 20.04.02
"...the Great Lakes Avengers renamed themselves the Lightning Rods..."

Heh. It's all there when you look for it.
 
 
Sax
14:35 / 20.04.02
And why no Apollo or Midnighter?
 
 
Tamayyurt
15:06 / 20.04.02
"Attractive Lad" I like this!
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
19:51 / 20.04.02
and why the horrid backround, i thought those types were supposed to be good with design...
 
 
Utopia
00:06 / 21.04.02
ouch! and where are the sex investigators from Preacher? ignored for quotes like "I take it oop the shitter"?, or is it just a lack of current comic knowledge?
 
 
Trijhaos
00:09 / 21.04.02
Some of those characters of uncertain orientation seem more like a fanboy's wishful thinking than anything else. Marrow? So she liked watching someone sleep, since when does that make someone gay?
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
10:06 / 21.04.02
And Karma? Must admit, i never made that much of an effort to keep up with her story but based on this web-page the idea seems to be that she's gay because she lives with two lesbians.
 
 
Jack Fear
13:32 / 21.04.02
John Constantine is of uncertain orientation? John "I'm a bloke me, I fancy girls" Constantine? Have I been reading the wrong issues?

John Constantine who, in one of those interminable interior-monologue captions (in an Ennis issue, I think) was reflecting on his luck in relationships and lamenting that "girlfriends, the occasional boyfriend" all eventually got fed up with the weirdness in his life...

John Constantine who can't seem to hold on to a girlfriend...

John Constantine who, of all people, knows the value of keeping an open mind...

Oh, and there are all kinds of theories about the exact nature of the friendship between John and Chas...

Smiling as I type this: Deva, anyone would've spotted this stuff, Deva, I was sure it would've been you.
 
 
Ganesh
13:46 / 21.04.02
I'm pretty sure that John Constantine, in his earliest (and perhaps most 'true') incarnation was supposed to be sexually ambiguous. I remember one of his contacts in particular, a Quentin Crisp style 'stately homo' of the old school called Raymonde, who owned an antique/junk shop, 'Serendipity'. Don't have the relevant issues to hand but I'm certain there were at least subtle intimations that there'd been some sort of 'rough trade' relationship between the two in the past.

Subsequent writers may have 'butched him up' but Constantine was always homo-friendly; it's a question of just how friendly...
 
 
Ganesh
13:47 / 21.04.02
Oh yeah, and the earring in the right ear likely had more significance in 1980s Britain than it does now, but it was at least a 'soft signifier'.
 
 
Mr Tricks
22:28 / 30.04.02
On JC...

haven't recient issue brought the topic of his Sexuality quite to the fore-front?

Group sex, S&M clubs... at the very least he's got an open mind... even shares a kiss with his current nemisis.
 
 
Ganesh
07:07 / 01.05.02
Yeah, but much 'straighter' than his previous incarnation; plenty of leggy females hanging around to prove he's still 'all man'...
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
10:38 / 01.05.02
Re Hooded Justice, I thought the point about him was that violence was his thing? Hence the scene with the Comedian...
 
 
Mr Tricks
19:30 / 01.05.02
"Yeah, but much 'straighter' than his previous incarnation; plenty of leggy females hanging around to prove he's still 'all man'..."

Yes, I agree, Too bad to, as I imagine there's some great story potential in such a charactor using "gender bias" to his advantage or to exploit it in another...
...Some Homophobic demon?

Yikes, maybe I should just delete that comment
 
 
aus
03:00 / 11.12.02
*dig dig dig* Ah, here it is!
______________________________________

Comic book to feature first gay lead
December 11 2002

Marvel Comics in the United States is set to debut a comic book that features the first gay title character, a news report said.

The Rawhide Kid is a revival of a Marvel comic book title that the company began publishing in the 1950s, CNN reported. The original character was not gay, but his new incarnation, which is set to debut in February, is to reveal his homosexuality through euphemisms and double entendres.

For instance, in the first issue in the series, the Rawhide Kid comments on the Lone Ranger: "I think that mask and the powder blue outfit is fantastic. I can certainly see why the Indian follows him around."

The makers of the new Rawhide Kid are the original artist, John Severin, 86, and Ron Zimmerman, a writer for the Howard Stern Show, a radio talk show known for its often crass and sexual content. CNN reported that it was Zimmerman's idea to make the new Rawhide Kid gay.

New York-based Marvel had previously introduced several gay secondary characters in its comics. As Marvel spokesman Brian Reinert told CNN, the comic book company has always been interested in "stories that are relevant today".

-DPA

This story was found at: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/12/10/1039379831000.html

______________________________________

I'm not sure I trust these guys. I mean, one of Howard Stern's writers? Is this going to be a positive thing for gay people? Will it become a vehicle to perpetuate stereotypes? Will it sell? How can a gay comic hero effect how gay people are generally viewed, or how people view themselves?

There must be a hundred other questions and comments that could be made, but it's late here and I'm tired.

So, what are your thoughts?
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
03:30 / 11.12.02
Oh dear ghods this looks like a painful train wreck waiting to happen. Zimmerman's books have all beeen painful at best, and this looks insultingly stupid, and with a character that doesn't need this sort of crap.

Why can't he make up a new character to use, especially after Ostrander's excellent work on the Marvel Western books?

Euphemisms and double entendres....bad jokes and crude slurs at best.

Thankfully, they promice if we ignore it for 4 months, it will go away.
 
 
aus
06:23 / 11.12.02
I'd be willing to make a small bet that is precisely what will not happen, and that I will soon be able to find a copy of the latest The Rawhide Kid comic in my local OutLoud Department Store.
 
 
The Falcon
08:43 / 11.12.02
The villain in Azzarello's run on Hellblazer, S.W. Manor (that's Stanley Wayne) was an ex-boyfriend of John's.

Mark Millar says the first 3 issues of Rawhide Kid are, and I quote, 'fucking excellent.'
 
 
The Falcon
08:48 / 11.12.02
Oh, and apparently in the first issue of Claremont's Mekanix miniseries, of which the focal point is Kitty Pryde, Karma drops an extremely heavy hint that she is, indeed, gay.

I've already seen that sight but another couple of interesting Claremont titbits are: 1) that he intended Storm's feelings for Jean in X-Men to be at least borderline homo-erotic and 2) that Mystique, being a shapechanger, would be Rogue's father, Destiny being her mother.
 
 
some guy
11:04 / 11.12.02
Mystique, being a shapechanger, would be Rogue's father, Destiny being her mother

That was the original plan, yes. Actually, Claremont was pretty bold about their relationship in the 1980s. IIRC there's a blatant line somewhere about the fact they share a bed - possibly around the Silvestri issues.
 
  

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