BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Magnetic Creativity Stimulation

 
  

Page: (1)2

 
 
The Sinister Haiku Bureau
10:05 / 17.04.02
From the BBC News Science Department:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1932000/1932709.stm

Australian scientists say they have created a "thinking cap" that will stimulate creative powers.
The invention raises the possibility of being able to unlock one's inner genius by reawakening dormant parts of the brain.

It is based on the idea that we all have the sorts of extraordinary abilities usually associated with savants.

According to scientists at the Centre for the Mind in Sydney, these hidden talents can be stimulated using magnetism.

The news has been given a cautious welcome by experts in the UK.

Professor Allan Snyder and colleague Elaine Mulcahy say tests on 17 volunteers show their device can improve drawing skills within 15 minutes.

They intend to submit their work for publication in a scientific journal.


Fascinating stuff. Do you think this is true? Any other sources of info on it kicking around- like how big an improvement it makes or more details of how it works, or how it's differnt from audio or visual brainwave entrainment (apart from being magnetic, obviously).
 
 
gozer the destructor
10:17 / 17.04.02
Theoretically i suppose it could be true but it smells a bit of quackery.
 
 
Utopia
12:30 / 17.04.02
no no gozer. everything is real. let's ask this scientician:

"Well--"

see, he says it's real. don't be such a cynic.
 
 
gozer the destructor
13:48 / 17.04.02
ho ho ho...
 
 
The Sinister Haiku Bureau
14:51 / 17.04.02
Well, I was a tad cynical too, but it is the BBC reporting it. They're not exactly in the habit of publishing articles on people who claim that their special rat only diet will cure cancer, or people who build time machines in their basements, and only need $10,000 from the American public to prevent Richard Nixon from killing off all the dinosaurs. Although the fact that it hasn't been published yet does make me a little suspicious. If it is true, then it's pretty damn cool, and I thought I'd enquire as to if anybody had any more detail.
 
 
grant
15:49 / 17.04.02
Here. Check Mordant's entry from 19 Mar and follow the link.

There's a lot of room for bullshit (evidenced by MC's prior postings) but the science is pretty clearly there.

Here's some science on it. Excerpt:
Welcome to transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS), one of the hottest research tools in neuroscience. Since its invention 15 years ago, TMS has become a relatively simple, noninvasive, and usually painless way to electrically stimulate specific brain regions. It's power tantalizes investigators who want to unravel how the human mind works. More recently, TMS has also grabbed the attention of physicians and psychologists, who predict that it has the potential to treat conditions ranging from epilepsy to stuttering to depression.
and
The original coils used by Baker were doughnut-shaped and could only deliver a single stimulation per experiment. Many investigators now work with a figure-eight coil because the magnetic field generated by its two circles focuses on smaller regions of the brain than the simpler coil does. TMS devices today create magnetic fields with strengths up to 2 Tesla, about 40,000 times the Earth's natural magnetic field.

By the 1990s, technology had advanced to the point where repetitive TMS, or rTMS, also became available to most researchers. In rTMS, scientists deliver repeated magnetic pulses at frequencies up to 50 times a second (50 hertz). As a result, the targeted brain region receives a barrage of brief electric stimulations.

and
"What TMS allows you to do is transiently inactivate an area and evaluate the behavioral consequences," says Leornardo G. Cohen of the National Institute of Neurological Diseases and Stroke (NINDS) in Bethesda, Md. "Nothing else can do that in humans."

Those consequences depend on where scientists direct the magnetic pulse. For example, we can use TMS to prevent people from seeing a visual stimulus or make it hard for them to speak, says Wassermann, who, like Cohen, conducts TMS studies at NINDS.


I'm still waiting for my function generator, too.
 
 
cusm
18:03 / 17.04.02
I've heard of studies using magnets to stimulate parts of the brain to trigger the same sort of experiences people report as alien abductions. Its certainly got a basis in possibility, though I'd wonder about just how much success they actually have with it.
 
 
Saint Keggers
23:59 / 17.04.02
Is this the technology behind Spike's chip?
 
 
grant
13:14 / 18.04.02
I wrote to the researchers to ask for a little clarity, and this is what I got in reply:

Subject: Re: "thinking cap" announcement





Hi Grant,

Thank you for your e-mail. We are presently
carrying out a series of
experimental trials, the first of which will
hopefully be published
in the coming months. The magnetic fields we are
currently using
target relatively localised areas of cortex and a
range of
frequencies between 0-1Hz. There are a number of
labs working in the
area of magnetic brain stimulation which would
also be a potential
source of information for you. The technique is
called "transcranial
magnetic stimulation' or TMS (or rTMS ...
repetitive TMS). If you do
an internet search you will surely come up with
something!

Good luck with your research,
Warm regards
Elaine

--
Dr. Elaine Mulcahy
Post-doctoral research fellow
http://www.centreforthemind.com

CENTRE FOR THE MIND
A joint venture
Australian National University
University of Sydney


She's, like, my new crush. She's dreaaamy.
 
 
grant
13:15 / 18.04.02
It's also interesting that they're using very low Hz (below 1) on the brain - the stuff I've been looking into is all in the 6-12 Hz range, close to the ambient frequencies of the brain itself.
 
 
Tamayyurt
15:33 / 18.04.02
She must be using the thinking-cap herself cause not only did she reply but she made it into a poem.
 
 
The Monkey
16:16 / 18.04.02
None of the links explain how it works on the brain, though. I'd presume it somehow impacts synaptic function, the use of a charge and osmotic gradient to generate the synaptic firing.

Though I've heard of TMS in a neurosci class as a sub for ECT, this thinking cap business makes me raise an eyebrow. Stimulating brain regions is one thing, but there's no consensus on what "creativity' is within the neurologic context. Also, I think I'd want a lot more rounds of testing to perceive long-term effects. After all, the brain is not merely a set of walled-off regions dealing with specific functions. The "areas" that have been mapped are all inconnected, and the major ganglia form a series of matted and criss-crossing. If TMS disrupts brain function within a 3-dimensional area of the brain, what happens if a ganglion (bundle of axons) happens to cross through that region? Will it be disrupts, and in that case, what are the ramifications?
 
 
grant
17:16 / 18.04.02
They're probably asking some of the same questions.

On the definition of creativity, though, I think they're pretty clearly hoping to recreate the same "brain weather" that is observed in autistic savants - thus recreating that kind of creativity.

I'm really eager to read them once they publish with details of their experiments.
 
 
grant
13:08 / 30.04.02
Here's a little bit of clarity as to how TMS works (in its inhibitory, rather than excitory, mode) (uh, meaning when in slows down neurons rather than speeding them up):

The Lancet
Volume 352, Number 9131 12 September 1998
Decreased neuronal inhibition in cerebral cortex in obsessive-compulsive disorder on transcranial magnetic stimulation

Benjamin D Greenberg, Ulf Ziemann, Ann Harmon, Dennis L Murphy, Eric M Wassermann


Transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS), initially developed as a non-invasive probe of brain motor physiology, has been applied to research of neuropsychiatric illness. TMS can assess the degree of neuronal inhibition in the cerebral cortex. Cortical motor-output cells are activated with powerful magnetic pulses produced by an electromagnetic coil placed on the scalp. The subsequent motor-evoked potentials (MEPs) are decreased when subthreshold TMS pulses precede by 2­5 ms stimuli above the threshold. This phenomenon of intracortical inhibition is thought to be due to activation of inhibitory interneurons by the subthreshold pulse. One study found that intracortical inhibition was defective in patients with Tourette's syndrome,2 which suggests an influence on the intrusive motor phenomena characterising that illness. Because obsessive-compulsive disorder and Tourette's syndrome seem to be related by clinical phenomena and heritability, we used TMS to test for intracortical inhibitory abnormalities in patients with obsessive-compulsive disorder.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
National Institute of Mental Health (B D Greenberg), and National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke, Bethesda 20892, MD, USA


I have no idea *what* an "interneuron" is. Sounds like a neuron between other neurons, as opposed to ones that make muscles twitch or tell the difference between hot and cold.

Here's another article excerpt (italics mine, and I apologize if the science lingo is a bit thick):

The Lancet
Volume 353, Number 9171 26 June 1999
Low-frequency repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation improves intractable epilepsy

Frithjof Tergau, Ute Naumann, Walter Paulus, Bernhard J Steinhoff


Repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation (rTMS) induces lasting effects on cortical excitability. In particular, long trains of low-frequency rTMS are described to reduce cortical excitability.1 Epilepsy is associated with TMS-assessed cortical hyperexcitability.2 We sought to find out whether patients with epilepsy benefit from low-frequency rTMS treatment on the following grounds: animal experiments have shown that low-frequency repetitive electrical stimulation blocked the development of seizures in rats;3 and 0·3 Hz rTMS in complex-partial epilepsy of mesiobasal limbic onset has led to a decrease in epileptic spike frequency....

...Low-frequency rTMS may temporarily improve intractable epilepsy. Long-term depression as a phenomenon of synaptic plasticity, which can be induced by long-term low-frequency repetitive electric stimulation, may be part of the underlying physiology.3 The reduction of seizures was of similar range as seen under intermittent repetitive vagus nerve stimulation.5


"Synaptic plasticity" refers to the ability of neurons to take on different tasks or alter their behavior.

Most of these studies seem to focus on the inhibitory aspects rather than the excitory aspects of the magnetic fields - that is, they're using low Hz fields rather than higher Hz fields (apparently). I suppose an overexcited brain is more likely to go into seizures.
 
 
grant
20:58 / 07.05.02
Because I rock:

Made it into Erowid.
 
 
Caleigh
09:56 / 22.02.03
there was an article in an old (1950's or so) scientific american magazine which talked about inducing more than that. it was about research into inducing audio information into someones head from a distance using electromagnetic radiation. i wish i had the issue and article # handy, but you can do a search in good periodicals library.
all you kids with university library cards get cracking!!!
 
 
Enamon
19:13 / 27.02.03
I've been doing some research on this stuff a while back. Hmm I don't know why I stopped but... anyway, from what I recall, you can use rTMS (repetetive transcranial magnetic stimulation) to create a temporary "virtual lesion" on the brain. In other words, you knock out brain power in one region of the brain and thus the brain focuses more effort on another part. That was one of the explanations for autistics who possess various incredible mental abilities. In a nutshell - their brains are unbalanced.

I just remembered where I've read this. I think it was in an issue of Discover magazine a while back. Let me see if I can find the link...

Hmm I'm still looking but here's a Discover article directly concerning those Australian scientists (Centre for the Mind):

http://www.discover.com/feb_02/featsavant.html
 
 
Quantum
08:27 / 28.02.03
"I've heard of studies using magnets to stimulate parts of the brain to trigger the same sort of experiences people report as alien abductions."
That was called a Koren helmet, and people had religious experiences of varying kinds- Angels, Aliens, Demons, being one with God, etc.- depending on their culture and beliefs. People in the study said he was a demon, or a saint, or in the pay of the aliens- they couldn't believe a scientific device could cause such spiritual experiences.
There's a good site
here
 
 
Lionheart
17:49 / 28.02.03
Wasn't this on an episode of the Tick?
 
 
captain yossarian
17:16 / 13.05.03
sounds like some scientology-crap...
 
 
grant
15:00 / 02.09.03
Here's an interesting Singularity Watch article (more of a blurb, really) that mentions Persinger and home TMS kits available via mail-order.

The links within the article aren't THAT fresh, but it's only a quarterly magazine (or biannual, I forget).
 
 
grant
13:46 / 26.09.03
See also this thread, from Sept. 2003.
 
 
rhedking
11:49 / 28.09.03
is the conclusion that savants are not neccessarly "smarter" than anyone else, it's just that they perceive the world in the different way correct? that is they breakdown the world in a more concrete way, as oppose to a more symbolic/concept-based way.it seems that is would take more effort (for the lack of a better word) to keep the image of man or car or horse in your head than understanding the basic idea of each and going from there.

i of course realize this is simplistic...it just kinda struck me.
 
 
Rage
12:42 / 28.09.03
L. Ron Hubbard is definitely behind this. Sounds like a major scam. If we wanted to do magick through material we'd use tarot cards.
 
 
grant
19:35 / 29.09.03
Well, the "smartness" of savants is really a measure of difference -- of creativity, moreso than intelligence.

It does seem Hubbard-esque, except I don't think Scientology was as geared towards expanding mental capacity as they were towards the ultimate end of "success" (whatever that is). Well, that and most of their technology was/is hooey.
 
 
grant
20:00 / 11.05.05
TMS back in the news as a depression treatment.

It's at UT Southwestern (that's University of Texas).

There's a passel of links at the lower right side of that page to other stories about the therapy being used at other universities.
 
 
astrojax69
00:27 / 12.05.05
hey wow, this thread started way back, before i found 'lith and before i started working at the centre for the mind, the crux of the original post...

we have done lots of studies since then and have found that tms turns off part of the brain and this appears to disinhibit the areas of the brain that allow access to savant-like skills. skills like proof reading, drawing and perhaps numerosity, perfect pitch and accent-free language acquisition.

some papers on this are at our site here.

the 'thinking cap' is an analogy but one we are working steadily towards making a reality, tying in tms with eeg and fmri. no quackery about it!

(nice tms article, grant!)
 
 
delta
10:34 / 12.05.05
Hmmm, if I remember rightly isn't autistic savantism generally caused by eleveated levels of testosterone in brain chemistry, damaging neural pathways at an early age, and leading to a healing in of 'short circuits'? Which is why savants generally have both loss and gain of function? The former often involving an incapability to fathom context in conversation?

Are you not a little worried that in mimicing what is (no-doubt about it) brain damage (all be it with a fancy name and some perks) by temporarily shutting down neural pathways by bombardment, that you'll cause permanent short-circuiting which will =reduce= overall function?

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to pick up perfect mandarin chinese in 3 years flat, but well, the whole prospect of the method detailed above makes the surface of my brain itch. And not in a good way.
 
 
charrellz
11:59 / 12.05.05
I recently cut out a newspaper ad requesting volunteers for a rTMS study on depression at UTD (University of Texas at Dallas). I was going to scan it and post it because I was excited, but I accidentally left it in my pocket when I did laundry...

I told my brother (who attends UTD) about the study, and after explaing TMS to him, he responded "they do some strange shit at my school."


Deltathrives: I think the idea is that this method allows the neural pathways to be temporarily shutdown without damaging them. Autism (atleast going by what you said, I don't know all that much myself) is chemically induced brain damage resulting in pathways being permanently closed. A small difference, but a very important one.
 
 
astrojax69
01:28 / 18.05.05
deltathrives, this thread has more on autism and aspergers.

savantism is extremely rare and is not necessarily related to autism. there are some remarkable cases of 'acquired savantism' reported and several 'savants' are not autistic but exhibit many traits of autism.

yes, autism is basically protracted infancy, predominantly associated with males, and is an inability to react socially with the environment. there is often other brain impairments associated with autistics that results in learning impairments beyond the socialisation.

tms as used in our research gives rise to non-permanent brain lesions, inhibiting part of the brain and seeimingly disinhibiting other parts of the brain. this, we maintain, mimics the biology underpinning savantism (not nec autism)
 
 
LykeX
16:15 / 23.05.05
Just a little information regarding interneurons. I'm quoting from Neuroanatomy 2nd edition, by Crossman and Neary:

Nerve cells that carry information from peripheral receptors to the CNS are referred to as afferent neurones. Efferent neurones carry impulses away from the CNS. The vast majority of neurones, however, reside entirely within the CNS and are usually called interneurones.

There's a really nice picture in the book, but I haven't been able to find one as good. This will have to do.
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
17:40 / 26.05.05
While trying to pay rent in NYC, I volunteered for various studies at Columbia University, and some of them were rTMS studies. So, I've had it done. The specific studies had to do with trying to influence my reaction times when remembering things or associating things. Like, they'd show me a bunch of letters, and then nothing, and then one letter, and I was supposed to hit a button if the letter was in the first bunch. Then a different study where I tried to associate different adjectives with "my best friend" (again studying how long it took me to push the buttons.) When I asked if it was supposed to slow down or speed up my reactions, I was told that the scientists didn't know what to expect (could just have been trying not to bias me.) My thoughts:

1. It makes your scalp jump where they do it. Uncomfortable.

2. In no discernable way did it ever appear to affect my reaction time. (maybe I was a control, but if the dude was telling me the truth they had some real tests and some control tests both being performed on me.)

3. It seemed very, very, very imprecise. Unless they're doing it very differently in these other places I really don't believe they could do anything like stimulating one neuron or whatever. They had trouble lining up the magnet hat on my head to within something like 1/2 to 1 inches. So I'd say they wouldn't be able to direct the current at anything more precise than a 1/2 cubic inch area.

4. I have subsequently felt no desires to assassinate anyone or to worship L Ron, although maybe I only do it when I'm asleep and then don't remember.

Just my impressions.
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
17:41 / 26.05.05
Oh yeah, this was late summer 2004.
 
 
astrojax69
22:51 / 29.05.05
pants, did you ever see the results of the study?

as for seeming to make no difference to your reaction times, did you get feedback on what they were during the test?

our centre's work on drawing skills had people draw a common object, say a dog or cat, pre, then during and then post tms. participants all reported that they didn't seem to be doing anything different each time (they were not shown their previous drawings) but the qualitative nature of their style, in a significant number of cases, improved. but it didn't 'feel' to them like it had, so it was nonconscious.

could this be the case for your exeprience?

tms can be used to stimulate or inhibit the brain's function, so the results of the study will depend on the intent and the kind of magnetic stimulation. our centre works to inhibit one part of the brain to induce skills in (disinhibit) another part.


btw, the latest [june?] edition of scientific america *mind* has an interesting article on tms, including a good overview of our work. unfortunately, you have to subscribe to get it online, no free browsing! (and i don't think we will be allowed to post it on our site, either, but will let you know if we do...
 
 
grant
18:43 / 31.05.05
Ooo! I get that at work. I'll have to see if I can snag that issue when it comes out.
 
  

Page: (1)2

 
  
Add Your Reply