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BOOK PERSONALS: Ulysses

 
  

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Persephone
22:10 / 09.04.02
Fez-wearing captain and minor princess of darkness seeking seaworthy folk to embark upon reading odyssey...

That's Rothkoid & me, that is. "Book personals" is an idea that was mooted in the "Ways to Talk" thread, the idea being that people can advertise for reading partners & agree between themselves when to start & then go. Discussions to be held in public forum, and joiners welcome.

The book: Ulysses, by James Joyce

The edition: I guess it's catch-as-catch-can, though I've got is a Vintage Giant paperback, based on "the complete and unabridged text, as corrected and entirely reset in 1961." I remember Tempus saying that this is the most recent reliable setting, and the one to avoid is the more recent Gabler edition. Mine also has the page numbers from the first 1934 American edition as marginalia; I do not know if that is important.

The date: May 1st ...to Bloomsday!

I think there were a few people who said they'd give Ulys a go, so please stand and be counted. The last time I tried to read this book, I got my butt kicked and good; but I'm coming back and this time I'm bringing friends... grrr, we're taking you down, Joyce!

There were some good notes in an earlier thread that I will dig up & post here, for starters. Also since this is a slightly different thing than book club, there may be process queries & these are welcome for discussion in this thread.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
23:12 / 09.04.02
this is my favorite book. i've read it very closely in the past and i was rereading chapters of it just the other week.

there's tons and tons of guidbooks and all that, and i'm sure those will start being listed here by everyone, but i would highly highly recommend the book JOYCE FOR BEGINNERS published by icon press in the uk and renamed i think INTRODUCING JOYCE in the US; by david norris and carl flint. it's one of those cartoony, simple explanation type things, and they did a wonderful job. anyone who's frightened of the book (and really, you needn't be) will be made to feel much better if you read this helpful little volume.

it's also wonderful to have a copy of Ulysseus *Annotated which is footnotes on everyline. you don't want to get bogged down by it, but whenever something strikes your fancy or you're curious about what something means, it is an unbelievably helpful tool that increases your joyce-confidence rating a thousandfold.

i wouldn't recommend anyone reading it without access to the basic correspondance structure that joyce published for it -- ie, which chapter is which section of the odyssey, etc. those are fairly easy to come by (they appear in both books above) but we could post it up here when the time comes for easy reference.

for anyone who's been afraid of the book or thought it was just intellectual nonsense, this would be a great time to give it a shot! in one of the "great literature" threads a few months back i tried to make some convincing arguments about why this book is so awesome and readable outside stuffy academic circles... wonder where that thread's gotten to..?
 
 
Trijhaos
23:21 / 09.04.02

The James Joyce Portal is also a good resource to use along with the books Mystery Gypt recommended.
 
 
Persephone
02:22 / 10.04.02
How the present Ulysses readathon got started, plus lots of great info & tips here.
 
 
wembley can change in 28 days
04:19 / 10.04.02
Well, my classes will have stopped sucking the blood out of my head by then, and I've never read it, so sure, I'll give it a go.

It might take me a long time - because I have this (possibly stupid) idea that I should read it aloud.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
06:11 / 10.04.02
reading it aloud is a GREAT idea, it's much more fun that way, especially if you try it with a dublin accent. when people complained to joyce that finnegans wake was absurdly imepenetrable, joyce would tell them that if they read it aloud, ANYone could understand it.
 
 
Baz Auckland
06:39 / 10.04.02
Will start May 3rd or 4th!
 
 
Ariadne
07:47 / 10.04.02
I'm a bit daunted by this. But I'll give it a go.
 
 
gozer the destructor
08:22 / 10.04.02
YES, I started reading it last year and just lost momentum so YES, definitely, May 1st...it's a date.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
09:22 / 10.04.02
Raaaa.

Which is plums clapping tiny hands in glee.

*love* Ulysses and also find it hard to explain why.

I've got a Penguin Classics ed. which I'll be sticking with, but let me know if people are using other editions and i'll try and borrow one.

If people have access to uni libraries, there are soem good concordances to U. as well as a fab 'beginners guide' which provides enough of the structure to get you going.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
09:29 / 10.04.02
I might well do this too (this isn't really that 'personal'-ly any more, is it? If you see what I mean... lots of people here!)
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
10:01 / 10.04.02
Plums: The Penguin edition should be fine. In fact, most big-name versions are probably OK, as they seem to take after reasonable copies - IIRC, it's only the lambasted "Reader's Edition" that's been collectively shat upon from a great height. I think the OUP version is pretty cheap, too - though if you splurge, Penguin does another version, a whiz-band-lots-of-paginations number that's an extra tenner. Which I may not get, but still, it's nice to know it's there.

The schema that's been mentioned before is contained in the introduction (I think) to the Penguin editions, is probably in the others, too. If not, the Joyce Portal is - as mentioned - indispensible.

But still. I must get a copy. Mine's at home, so it'll be a pristine book experience. Third time 'round, and I still feel like I know bugger all about the book, though... so... avast!

(NB: I tried to get Tom in on this as he's only read about 30 pages of it, according to his weblog. But no joy yet... wuss!)
 
 
Ariadne
10:44 / 10.04.02
So - are we starting to read this now, with a view to having lots to say by May 1, or planning to start reading on May 1?
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
12:01 / 10.04.02
Either/or, I think. This is going to be a "post-as-you-read" thing, I think, so it shouldn't matter. It'll probably be like previous book-club threads- though I don't really know how much "spoilers" could be applied to Ulysses... it's not exactly like giving away the end of Psycho, for example...
 
 
Persephone
12:11 / 10.04.02
Rothkoid please correct if wrong, we were thinking about *starting* reading on May Day? I was planning to spend the next two or so weeks basically girding my loins --getting a useable concordance, surfing through the Portal, and generally mapping out my reading plan. Plus this will give time for people to procure their editions. We're doing post-as-you-read, right, and we're aiming to finish by Bloomsday? So I'm thinking that perhaps a rough syllabus might be in order... but I would think it would be okay for people to get started sooner, if the spirit moves?
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
12:41 / 10.04.02
Yeah - there should be no pressure to read anything before May 1st - but if people feel like having something ponied up for comment on that date, they might like to read a bit more beforehand. It won't make much difference, I think.

As for syllabus... could be a good idea?
 
 
grant
15:34 / 10.04.02
I'll try to join in, having skipped the last couple chapters when I read it in a "Modern Novel" class.

Mystery Gypt:
reading it aloud is a GREAT idea, it's much more fun that way, especially if you try it with a dublin accent. when people complained to joyce that finnegans wake was absurdly imepenetrable, joyce would tell them that if they read it aloud, ANYone could understand it.



Think they'll come out with a "Books on Tape" version?
 
 
Mystery Gypt
18:35 / 10.04.02
because there's so goddamn much going on in the book, the thread discussion might become pure noise if people just start posting about whatever occurs to them throughout the book. i'd strongly recommend going chapter by chapter, maybe a chapter each week or two? there's a couple chapters -- like the 1st two or 3 -- we could knock off all together. but we should try to all stay focussed on the same parts together, or else we'll lose the sort of community, reading together magic we could have. do it up a bit like the old invisibles annotating days, i say!
 
 
wembley can change in 28 days
20:30 / 10.04.02
Think they'll come out with a "Books on Tape" version?

I'm toying with the idea of recording myself reading it aloud. So what if I'm not a man.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
20:55 / 10.04.02
a fairly renowned stage actress whose name escapes me once did a recording of the last chapter, molly's monologue, so i guess that's available if you look around. very nicely done, though a bit melodramatic.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
21:21 / 10.04.02
more on the audio topic --

here's an audio cd of the whole book, abridged; they also have it on tape. not read by joyce, but for decerability and sound quality, that's not a bad thing.

but behold! for on this tape, Joyce himself reads selections of U and Finnegans. the whole of the ulysseus part is only 4 minutes long, however. i found the finnegans part on napster a while ago, and here it is as a real audio and .au file. sounds like most of the tape is filler anyway, an actor reading poems from Chamber Music. still, if anyone can find the ulysseus bit and let us know...
 
 
Persephone
21:49 / 10.04.02
It sounds like a syllabus might be in order, from what Myst says? I'll take a crack at it, see how people like it.

Where is Tempus, also ardent about Joyce... did he get lost in the move?

Myst, can you highlight particular chapters that you think lend themselves particularly to reading aloud? I think it would be so excellent to record ourselves reading bits, and to post those bits; and you know how great wembley's going to sound. Rothkoid or another web-fu master, is this technically feasible?
 
 
Nelson Evergreen
22:57 / 10.04.02
I've never read it from start to finish (every now and then I'll fling it open at random and read for an hour, which works just fine somehow) and I'm never going to, but I'll still be following this thread with a spring in my head.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
10:31 / 11.04.02
The read-aloud bits would be possible, methinks. The person in question would need a copy of RealProducer - I think it encodes smaller than MP3 - and a mic. That's it. And patience, depending on how much they've read/are wishing to upload. PM me if there's any takers.
 
 
Ethan Hawke
11:44 / 11.04.02
Definitely break it up into chapters to discuss, since a lot of them are pretty much self-contained units anyway.

I'm unlikely to participate in a full re-reading of Ulysses, but there are some chapters (particularly the Nightown (forget the Odyssy equiv.) one, as I rushed through that when I first read it).
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
12:11 / 11.04.02
Great fucking idea. I've got the Penguin "student's" edition (think it's the same as the other Penguin but with wider margins and line numbers). Never got past the first 100 or so pages- it's the old Iain Sinclair problem- A book gets tricky, so you put it down. When you pick it up again, however, you wanna re-read what made you love the bits you read in the first place again. Then you put it down again. And the whole sorry process begins anew. (I've read the first 100 pages of "Ulysses" FUCK knows how many times, and never got any further.)
If I know you guys are there with me, it may give me the initiative to finally crack this bastard.
 
 
Baz Auckland
18:02 / 11.04.02
I agree with Todd; maybe have a different thread going for each section, so no matter how far you've gotten, you can still discuss the book so far...
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
18:24 / 11.04.02
I think the only problem with that'd be that it's going to monopolise the forum if that happens...
 
 
Mystery Gypt
19:16 / 11.04.02
surely monopolizing the forum in order to do a collaborative project that lots of people are behind is a GOOD thing, no? especially if it is finite, ie only for the duration of the reading / discussion. i personallyl ike this kind of constructive / communal use of the forum much better than the usual listiing of favorite books, which can become repetitive at a point.

*

my favorite chapter for reading outloud is chapter 11, the Sirens chapter, which if you remember from the odyssey is about supernatural women singing songs so beautiful they lead sailors to their death. the chapter starts with a list of phrases and onomatopoetic sounds, suggesting an orchestra tuning up, then they all find their way into the description of the concert room. it's a treat.

*

what goals are we setting for the sylabus? if you'll allow me to just spit out a little suggestion... there's 18 chapters in all, some of which demand fuller attention than others. going week by week, we can definately do
week one: chapters 1-3 -- this is part one of the book, about stephen dedelus, its comparatively straightforward, and it is only about 40 pages. get used to the rhythms of the book, get used to reading with an annotation in hand, and get a full section out of the way. you read 5 pages a day, if you like, and still get it done under a week.

week two:chapter 4-6 are also about 40 pages together, with a lot more of what we might call "plot complications" coming in.

week three: starts to bring us into much more fanciful narrative strategies, as this chapter is written like newspaper colulmns. wonder if we ought to slow down here, get just this one chapter out of the way and play catch up on the rest?

i'll stop here, since i don't know if this sort of a timeline will be germaine to how you'd like to lead it, but i will point out some of the chapter that ought to be taken entirely on their own -- Chapter 12, Cyclops, can be tough going since it's fairly long and written in a deliberately overblown style "giganticism">; chapter 14 ( is very tough going, as he simulates the development of english language paragraph by paragraph, a lot of it is very alien syntax; Chapter 15 (circe -- the above mentioned nighttown section) is UNGODLY long, i think it accounts for about a third of the book itself, but it is also he part written as a play with crazy surreal nonsense breaking out all over the pay, supernatural whores fighting demons sort of bit.

then you're in the last part of the novel. chapter 16 was deliberately written to be too boring to read, and i know most people wind up skipping it for this reason. very tought going. Chapters 17 + 18 are each unique and probably the two best in the book, and therefore ought to be given their own place. 18 is the final post-chapter, the celebrated monologue of molly, its the only female voice in the book and it's really a trip.

hope some of this helps!
 
 
Persephone
02:50 / 12.04.02
OMG nevermind me, the above is awesome... will you finish it, Myst? Bloomsday is June 16th, right? So if that's our target, that gives us six weeks plus a little (though we don't have to be totally strict)... can you work the chapters into the weeks as listed below & when we start the discussion thread, the syllabus can be in the first post... how about that?

Week One, 5/1-7
Week Two, 5/8-14
Week Three, 5/15-21
Week Four, 5/22-28
Week Five, 5/29-6/4
Week Six, 6/5-11
Week Seven (coda), 6/12-16

I think I would prefer not to break up the discussion into separate threads, as I generally prefer one fat folder over lots of skinny folders. I was thinking that we'd have our syllabus & the thread would follow roughly and in order. Advantage would be that it would set the pace & keep people together. Disadvantage, I suppose, is that there'd likely be more to discuss about a given section after its week was up & it could get confusing if people backtracked too much; if we started a new thread every week, say, then anyone could stay in or go to the older threads & keep on discussing. Would be awesome if we could join all the threads after we're through for posterity.

What think you, Rothkoid and Kit-Cat? If we did separate threads, I'd say one thread per week... so by the end, seven separate threads. Too cluttery? I guess it's a choice between a cluttery forum and a cluttery thread...

Also I found this another schemata, nicely laid out.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
05:51 / 12.04.02
glad you like my suggestions... i'll try to work it all out tomorrow... i wonder honestly if six weeks is enough, but there's no gun to our heads, if we find ourselves moving too slow we can crank it down later on... who here is going to actually be in dublin to represent the barbe-group-mind on bloomsday? the barbebloom!

if you look at the magick forum, they do a lot there with threading and discussions -- like the threads about each tarot card or each rune; then there's a seperate thread indexing the whole thing. it doesn't come across as clutter -- it comes across as a through and non-confusing discussion. people will naturally go at their own pace and have new things to say about past chapters, and one incredibly long thread might hurt all of our heads after a month of this crazy book!
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
10:09 / 12.04.02
You're probably right, MG: adhering to Joyce's schemata (as linked by P) might be a good idea, as then we can examine the differences in tones - maybe have a general thread at the end to tie it all together?

That is, of course, up to the moderators, I'm thinkin'.
 
 
Trijhaos
10:09 / 12.04.02
I was poking around the James Joyce portal earlier and found something that said Stephen Dedalus from Portrait of An Artist as a Young Man is also in Ulysses. Now I've never read anything by Joyce so would reading Portrait help my understanding of Ulysses?
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
10:20 / 12.04.02
Do you know, I think I'd rather read it without a bunch of notes the first time round - surely one must be able to read it without (or was it initially published with the schemata?).
 
 
gozer the destructor
10:22 / 12.04.02
I am really looking forward to this...when is bloomsday?it's not that expensive to Ireland and it would be great to get back again...and regarding the rading plan, are we starting this from the 1st of may? also I think writting the seperate sections as seperate threads would be easier to add to at a later date, possibly incites we get through our own re-reading in times to come, obviously it's the moderators who will be doing it so it's their choice...
 
  

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