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Poetrial

 
  

Page: 1(2)34

 
 
deja_vroom
00:21 / 10.04.02
"(...)what poetry should be - a conduit into a person's soul".

Mmm. right. Only that poetry is not *only* that, and about that. And when it's about *that*, It. Is. Well. Done.
Not every piece of poetry dwells on considerations or musings on one's own personality or feelings. If not because of anything else, just because that would be dead boring.

All true poetry expresses a person's innermost feelings as *direct* (...) as possible.

No. That's what you tell your psychiatrist so he can give you the right pills.


It should be raw and free. If you are not expressing the secrets of your soul, then you are not a poet.

What will you do then Billy, when your audience refuses to listen to you whining - oops, your innermost secret feelings?
 
 
muse
02:01 / 10.04.02
Poetry is hard work. There is not one piece I have written that I do not want to revise even further every time I look at it. There is nothing raw about poetry, though one's motivation to write can be. However, there's nothing elite about it. Poetry is a craft for everyman, all you need is the perspective and the desire.
 
 
Billy Corgan
20:23 / 25.06.02
There's been a lot of ridiculous talk about some people thinking I'm not a brilliant poet. I challenge all of you to critique my work, and try to prove that I am anything less than a great poet.

I propose that you start with this poem, which I am very proud of:





'WITHERING FREAKS'

mirthful tears of speculation
to coif away when in the spring
I would have adored him even so
to return a foppish dandy
soused on half-baked applejack
une homme innocent est mort
la femme enceinte avec son est seule
withering in pain
NOT living
AND not beautiful
and NOT flowering
LETHAL
where they see beauty
I see splendor
they see intelligence
I see genius
they see unique
I see special
they see the branch
I see the tree
they see the sky
I see space
they see the stream
I see the river
they see the kitten
I see the tiger
they see the wind
I see the storm
they see perfection
I saw it first
so violate me, dark serpents of sorrow
show me a new hell tomorrow
they are labeled
for society dislikes them
people wish they weren't there
just because they're different
this is not the way it should be
for no one is truly "weird" or a "freak"
that is just a label put on them
by prejudiced people
some people taunt them
in order to hurt their feelings
yet they are a person
like everyone else
some may not believe it
but it's true
so next time you see one
don't shun them
just smile and great them
you'll make their day
I promise you that
mark my words
 
 
Captain Zoom
20:31 / 25.06.02
"some people taunt them
in order to hurt their feelings
yet they are a person
like everyone else "

Maybe you ought to keep this in mind when critiquing others' poetry.

Zoom.
 
 
Billy Corgan
20:41 / 25.06.02
Oh please. I didn't ask for a Sunday school sermon, Zoom. I asked for an intellectual critique.
 
 
Saint Keggers
05:03 / 26.06.02
You haunted me,
again,
tonight.
You taunted me
within the mists
of dream and vision
Devouring into the quicksand of your eyes.
Licking flames through my dreams
to churn within
the fire of you
Haunted within mists
of curses and screams
Within smiles and glances
entwined visions and intentions
lost to the night.
You haunted me,
and still,
I
let
you.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:43 / 26.06.02
You haunted me,
again,
tonight.
You taunted me
within the mists
of dream and vision
Devouring into the quicksand of your eyes.
Licking flames through my dreams
to churn within
the fire of you
Haunted within mists
of curses and screams
Within smiles and glances
entwined visions and intentions
lost to the night.
You haunted me,
and still,
I
let
you.


Given that this poem is in total about 60 words long, it succeeds in being astonishingly repetitious.

The structure breaks down into three sections:

1) Statement - earlier tonight, you haunted me.

2)How you haunted me explained in greater detail.

3) The punchline - not only did you haunt me, but I let you.

2) further subdivides into:

a) the location of the haunting - "within the mists
of dream and vision", where some taunting also went on (this early rhyme is the last; in general, if rhyme is to be used, it should be used consistently - the rhyme or rhythm giving out halfway through is usually but not always a sign of poor editing).

b) some more detail on the nature of the haunting - "Devouring into the quicksand of your eyes.
Licking flames through my dreams
to churn within
the fire of you" (another "dream" and another "within" here)

c) A reminder of where this has all taken place. In a dream, in the night.

"Haunted within mists
of curses and screams
Within smiles and glances
entwined visions and intentions
lost to the night." (yet another "within", and some more mist, but bonus points for the para rhyme of "visions and intentions" and the variant "screams". Note also that the number of "x and y"s here reaches 4 - that's 20% of the entire poem. Dream and vision, curses and screams, smiles and glances, visions and intentions - this bespeaks a lack of confidence that a single word has the strength to carry, and gives one the impression of flicking through a metaphysical Yellow Pages)

So, basically, the poem, although very short, seems about twice as long as it needs to be, since it could just be:

"You haunted me tonight (although "tonight" with a perfect always reminds me of the Cutting Crew Classic "I Just Died in Your Arms Tonight" - tonight is generally present or proleptic).

I was asleep, and dreaming, and you were there.

So, you haunted me, and I let you. (a weak punchline, by the way. What were the alternatives? How do you not let somebody haunt/taunt you within mists of curses and screams? How is it preventable?)"

Of course, that would be very prosaic, but what is actually being lost? Mainly, nouns.

Take:

"Devouring into the quicksand of your eyes.
Licking flames through my dreams
to churn within
the fire of you"

THe capital "D" suggests that this is the beginning of a sentence; alternatively (and we cannot tell because your punctuatiopn and capitalisation are inconsistent; these things are there for a reason) the mists of dream and vision are devouring into the quicksand of your eyes, which is an incomprehensibly tangled image. Assuming otherwise, presumably the subject of "devouring" is "you". Except that would mean "you" were devouring into the quicksand of his or her own eyes, which seems a bit pointless. So perhaps "me" is doing the devouring, or possibly "you" are taunting me, who is devouring, into the quicksand. Although the last one is clumsy and "devouring" seems utterly unnecessary, at least it makes sense of the fairly simple problem that one does not devour *into* things. By definition, if you devour something, there is nothing left to go "into" relative to. Also, at this point, our hero is apparently eating quicksand, for no immediately discernable reason. And that's just one line. "Sounding poetic" and "writing poetry" are two very different things.

It is possible that something can be salvaged fromt his poem. It would require brutal editing, close reading, and, perhaps most importantly, serious thought about what you are trying to say and what the reader will read - not necessarily the same thing. Not to mention *why* the author should write or the reader should read.

This, along with Zoom's attempt at critique above, are highly acute highlights of the dangers of writing poetry without reading it.
 
 
Captain Zoom
14:34 / 26.06.02
Okeedokee. Though intellectual from me is apparently not possible.

"I see splendor
they see intelligence
I see genius
they see unique
I see special
they see the branch
I see the tree
they see the sky
I see space
they see the stream
I see the river
they see the kitten
I see the tiger
they see the wind
I see the storm
they see perfection
I saw it first "

Repetitive, repetitive, repetitive. don't assume that your audience is a bunch of idiots. Everyone gets the point the first couple of time. The rest is just redundant.

The use of capital letters is cheating. If you want to emphasize something, it should come across in the tone of the poem and not have to be pointed out with big, flashy letters. Once again, don't assume that your audience won't understand what you're getting at.

"coif : a close-fitting cap: as a : a hoodlike cap worn under a veil by nuns b : a protective usually metal skullcap formerly worn under a hood of mail c : a white cap formerly worn by English lawyers and especially by serjeants-at-law; also : the order or rank of a serjeant-at-law"
I do not understand your use of this word. What does "coif away" mean?

The whole thing really is cliche. In general, I can't call that a bad thing. Cliches are cliches for a reason. They are universal and they work. But the trick is to find new ways of saying old things. Especially in poetry, as it's one of the oldest written forms of creation. I think you fall back on old standards far too much. Par example:

"they are labeled
for society dislikes them
people wish they weren't there
just because they're different "

"so next time you see one
don't shun them
just smile and great them
you'll make their day"

(And if I were as petty as you, I'd point out that you misspelled "greet")

Zoom.

p.s. Let me just add a disclaimer. I fully do not expect Mr. Corgan to respond to this with anything more than his juvenille sarcasm and supposedly biting wit. But in the interests of trying to further this thread, which I think could be a really useful one, I've played along. Don't feed the trolls, I know.
 
 
Captain Zoom
14:37 / 26.06.02
This, along with Zoom's attempt at critique above, are highly acute highlights of the dangers of writing poetry without reading it.

What is that supposed to mean? Are you keeping track of my reading habits now, Haus?

Zoom.
 
 
The Apple-Picker
14:37 / 26.06.02
Billy Corgan wrote: There's been a lot of ridiculous talk about some people thinking I'm not a brilliant poet. I challenge all of you to critique my work, and try to prove that I am anything less than a great poet.

Sadly, I fear Billy will forever feel secure with his self-proclaimed status as a great poet. Because he who picks up the gauntlet Billy has thrown down surely is doomed. No man can emerge unscathed from this, this thing! This horror of horrors! [All melodrama herein inspired by Billy.]

*sigh* I will point out a few things. I do not have the stamina to give this piece a full critique.


'WITHERING FREAKS'

mirthful tears of speculation
to coif away when in the spring
--I'm asking this in all seriousness. Do you have a dictionary? Anyway, you obviously have access to the internet. Please check out "coif" at Webster Online, because this makes no sense.

I would have adored him even so
to return a foppish dandy
soused on half-baked applejack
--Half-baked applejack? I don't really understand what this means. Applejack is apple-brandy, right? What about apple brandy is half-baked. The sound of those words together is neat, has a cool kind of rhythm, but don't sacrifice sense for sound.

une homme innocent est mort
la femme enceinte avec son est seule
--Is this a quote? An allusion to some other text? Because unless it is, I see no reason for a different language.

withering in pain
NOT living
AND not beautiful
and NOT flowering
LETHAL
--I've already mentioned how I don't condone neglecting punctuation. And these sentence fragments are another reason why I don't condone that neglect. Sometimes punctuation aids a writer in seeing where the grammar is just a big mess. But, of course, punctuation is also abused. Also, the capitization seems completely arbitrary. This just doesn't make sense.

where they see beauty
I see splendor
they see intelligence
I see genius
they see unique
I see special
they see the branch
I see the tree
they see the sky
I see space
they see the stream
I see the river
they see the kitten
I see the tiger
they see the wind
I see the storm
they see perfection
I saw it first
--Here again, punctuation might have helped. After "splendor" you absolutely needed a full-stop. If not, then you needed parallel construction with "where I..." at the beginning of each item. This listlike construction is pretty dull, too. Not to say it doesn't still have a place in poetry, but that here it's just boring and predictable.

so violate me, dark serpents of sorrow
show me a new hell tomorrow
they are labeled
for society dislikes them
people wish they weren't there
just because they're different
this is not the way it should be
for no one is truly "weird" or a "freak"
that is just a label put on them
by prejudiced people
some people taunt them
in order to hurt their feelings
yet they are a person
like everyone else
some may not believe it
but it's true
so next time you see one
don't shun them
just smile and great them
you'll make their day
I promise you that
mark my words


What are you trying to communicate here? I don't see any continuity. We have in the spring, mirthful tears hairstyling away. And the hope that a drunken man, maybe the same innocent dead who left his wife, pregnant with their son, alone. Maybe that wife is withering in pain. To make any sense from this, one has to make big leaps for connections. And then the whole second half seems totally unrelated to the first. Whereas disjointed as the two parts are, at least one can make those leaps for connection. The only thing that unites the two parts is the title "Withering Freaks."

The tone changes often and is jarring.

Geez, there are so many things to sort out here. And as I wrote before I began, this is a feat for which I do not have the stamina. So I'm going to ask:

Billy, why haven't you read the books I suggested? Here are some others if you need more, um, guidance:
Understanding Poetry, Brooks and Warren
How Does a Poem Mean?, John Ciardi
Sound and Sense, Laurence Perrine

If what you meant by sending us all to school, Professor Billy, was forcing me to reexamine my poetry textbooks and collections in a vain attempt to see where you went wrong, you have succeeded!
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:46 / 26.06.02
Umm...Zoom. He's taking the piss. His poem was a parody a) of Billy Corgan's preoccupations and b) of your verse. It's jejune and sophomoric, but it doesn't exactly invite a critical response. If you are going to do it, though, perhaps something a little more creative and productive than just picking out the odd bit and scoring points, then scampering for the moral high ground. Grown-up juice, my boy, always the grown-up juice.

Billy - it's "quaff", not "coif".
Ya baldy-heided numpty.
 
 
Captain Zoom
14:59 / 26.06.02
Gosh! Billy's taking the piss? I never woulda guessed. Sorry Haus, that not only does my poetry, but also my criticism not hold up to your lofty standards. Thanks for playing though. Any interest in this thread is good, even if it's from an arrogant git like you.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:15 / 26.06.02
Not arrogant necessarily, just perhaps more versed (if you'll excuse the pun). As for keeping track of your reading habits...it's pretty simple. Could you name the last four books of poetry you read, and the timeframe in which you did so?
 
 
Captain Zoom
16:03 / 26.06.02
H.P. Lovecraft's "Fungi From Yuggoth"
Donne "Selected Works"
Blake "Songs of Innocence & Songs of Experience"


Those're the last 3 I remember, all within the last three months.

Haus, I don't see anything encouraging in your criticism, that's all. I thought the point of the Creation was to encourage one another in our efforts, rather than discourage. Both yours and Billy's attitudes here are that you're better than anyone who's posting here, which you have to admit you're not.

And please do define "grown-up" for me. I'm kind of getting sick of you telling me to do it.
 
 
Billy Corgan
16:16 / 26.06.02
Oh, dry your eyes, Captain. Save your sorrow for your poetry! I knew that you all would not be able to understand "Withering Freaks", as it is in a league of its own, I'm breaking new ground in poetry. My new approach is complicated, it is like the poetic equivalent of prog rock. Only those who understand the intricacies of the soul can even hope to scratch its surface - book smart college kids like The Apple Picker and Haus need not even try to grasp it, much less people like Captain Zoom. This is no joke - I am reinventing the art of language in my image.

To clear one thing up - I did mean to write "coif" and not "quaff". It's the new slang. Also, if you've never had half-baked apple jacks, they you've never lived. All you have to do is put the contents of one box of Apple Jacks in a casserole dish and bake it for one half hour. It's quite a delicacy around the Corgan estate.

To my naysayers, I remind you all that William Wordsworth once wrote that all "good poetry is the spontaneous overflow of powerful feelings." Think about it.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:50 / 26.06.02
I'm not suggesting that I'm "better" than anyone. Merely suggesting that, if you invite criticism, there's no point in crying and wetting yourself when people are not universally and uncritically approving of your work. Personally, I was raised by a very able English academic and was trained to study and criticise poetry in three or four languages. Now, I'm a lot dumber now than I used to be, but it does mean I have a certain familiarity with poetry. I am not going to encourage somebody to write bad poetry. It seems largely pointless. I am going to suggest where I think a poem could be improved, and where I think it works.

And, for that matter, if it is an unsalvagable shitbath, that might also be a part of a learning process.

Now, to my point. You have read three books of poetry in the last three months (well, two and a pamphlet, unless by "Songs of Innocence and Experience" you mean a collected Blake). One of those is from this century, and that is by a writer of horror novels and, from my exposure to his poetry, self-conscious archaist. See where I'm going?

I've written a comic. And drawn it.

Oh? what's it like?

Fantastic. Look!

Uh....it seems a bit primitive.

The fuck are you talking about?

Well...I mean....what sort of comics do you read? Who were you emulating?

Oh, I like the Kirby stuff.

But this is nothing like Kirby. It's just a series of crude line drawings and some rude words in speech bubbles.

Yes. I'm using a modern style. Good, isn't it?

Have you read any modern comics?

Why should I? I write them.

Innocence is all well and good, but there is also a case for experience.

As for "growing up" - stop being led around by the nose, goddammit. Billy has nothing invested in the poetry he is turning out and is writing it only to mock you, not least by parodying your style and sentiments, so your "critique" blunders slap-bang into his purpose. Meanwhile, Apple-Picker is apparently in cahoots with BC, and by validating your viewpoint is inciting you to continue to let him make a fool of you by eliciting clearly passionate attempts attempts on your part to criticise his "work" (and who is being destructive in *that* critique?). It's just embarrassing.
 
 
Captain Zoom
17:27 / 26.06.02
Haus, as usual you have excellent points couched in an acerbic, sometime annoying, attitude. Fine, all points taken, I don't really know why I got back into this poetry thing at all. However, please don't accuse me of being led around by the nose without knowing anything whatsoever about me.
 
 
deja_vroom
18:13 / 26.06.02
Re: Billy Corgan - I'm confused. Sometimes I think he's just taking royal piss: - My new approach is complicated, it is like the poetic equivalent of prog rock. - Fuck me baby Jesus, you gotta love this line. But what if it was written seriously, in all earnestness?
 
 
deja_vroom
18:38 / 26.06.02
And really wanting to hear everybody's thoughts on this one:

Ballad For A Chair

The respectable citizen
Enthusiast of milky-skinned little boys
Sat down on the Chair
And his Brain became Flowers.
And his Brain violoncelled.



---
That's it.
 
 
Jack Fear
19:01 / 26.06.02
...or, A Paedo Rides the Lightning, one presumes.

And "violoncelled"? That's never a verb... Related to "violoncello," perhaps? A clever way of avoiding trademark infringement--his brain became "'cello", instead of the almost-homophonic "Jell-O"?
 
 
deja_vroom
19:17 / 26.06.02
I know there's not such a verb. Read it again knowing that I know there's not such a verb and see how the feeling changes
Believe it or not, when I wrote it, I mentally "felt" (how can someone explain this sort of feeling?) that to violoncel meant "To fall on the floor like a violoncello; To produce, by falling, the same sound that a violoncel makes when falling". It's supposed to sound, read, and feel a little bit alien, so you're not completely sure of which ground you're treading. And I'm 60% sure it's really about a paedo on the electrical chair, but who am I to judge?
 
 
Jack Fear
19:40 / 26.06.02
"To ride the lightning" is US prison slang for "to be executed by electric chair," for those playing at home. The chair itself is usually refered to, by death row guards, as "Ol' Sparky."

Okay. Useful criticism right here:

Familiarity breeds contempt: when I read poem, I want to see words put together in ways I've never seen before. Clichés are death: fairly or unfairly, they mark you as a lazy writer—and they are staggeringly ineffective at getting your message across (see below).

"Respectable citizen" is just such a cliché, one of those inseparable adjective-noun pairs: has there ever been a citizen who wasn't respectable? Ditto "little boys": as opposed to what? Relatively oversized boys?

If there's something unique and significant about the respectability of the citizen or the littleness of the boys—something crucial to the poem's meaning—then find some other way to say it, because the phrase "little boy" is essentially transparent: it reads simply as "boy." And if you just mean "boy," why don't you just write "boy"? Make every word count.

Again, "Sat down on the Chair": well, I wasn't expecting him to sit up on the chair...

Eliminate unnecessary words: they slow things down, and make your lines flabby.
 
 
deja_vroom
21:54 / 26.06.02
About the "Sat down..." bit and the "little boys" bit: Blame the first on bad English, the latter on poor translating skills. These pieces got mangled in the process.
As for "respectable citizen", you're right. It was like that in the original already, and it's horrendous. Have to work on that one.
Actually, there's not much point in do this, right? With language skills getting in the way and all...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:41 / 27.06.02
I rather liked violoncel as a verb, although it gave me an idea of sinews drawing tight across a bridge rather than the sound of a violoncello being dropped. Which also ties in to the idea of electrocution, as does the other image I got (sort of) of a sudden burst of discordant noise, as of a violin being struck.

As for "little boys" - I think Jack's right and wrong. Cavafy was a lover of milky-skinned boys; you do need some expression that this was wrong boylove. But does milky-skinned do that, with the ideas of weaning contained in "milk"? Maybe soft-skinned or milk-toothed - something which denotes extreme youth without actually saying "bite-sized and nonceable".

Jade, Zoom - Corgan is somebody on Barbelith's spare fiction suit designed almost specifically to take the piss out of you. Whether you choose to believe that or not is up to you. I will say no more.
 
 
Cloudhands
11:43 / 27.06.02
though reading poetry helps writing it, overdoing it hinders creative potential. I've often liked poems written by poets who are largely unfamiliar with the academic study of poetry have preserved an 'innocence' that at least the academic study of poetry destroys.
 
 
deja_vroom
11:48 / 27.06.02
as does the other image I got (sort of) of a sudden burst of discordant noise, as of a violin being struck

Exactly.
 
 
Cloudhands
16:57 / 27.06.02
the park
the interlude before people return to the shops and offices
people appear and disappear amidst the shadows of the trees
a tall man in a suit walks past, his hair blowing in the wind
a man stops to sit on a bench for the time it takes to complete a telephone call
children run under the sprinklers on the flower bed till a gardener shouts at them
a woman walks and smiles and looks from side to side at the trees, the daisies,
a statue of a man, no-one knows his name
she is an exception
most people hold only their destination in their mind's eye

I remember the afternoon we slept in the park after dancing all night
it was ours then, the sunshine and the green grass
I lie down and close my eyes. The click of heels on the gravel path
then I open them, look up at the blue sky
there is something grey about the blue sky
when I was a child my mother took me to the park after we had been shopping
I picked a single daisy
that day we slept in the park all afternoon, it was different
we were with the sunshine, the people were the background

I see a friend of mine riding a bicycle
I shout his name
He turns but does not see me, stares blankly through me then cycles away
I stand up and walk in his direction winding my way in between bushes and trees
I look into the distance, shielding my eyes with my hand
he has gone
I return to where I was sat, and write this, looking up intermittently for him cycling,
and now, here he is again, riding through the sprinklers,
and this time he sees me.
 
 
Billy Corgan
17:16 / 28.06.02
I would like some feedback on this, my latest epic:

EROTTON

I lapse into my dainty walk
I tip toe around the ball park
please, whisper my name
I hear you say 'nothing'
that is my name now
when I cry,
I feel the rain
from the heavens
washing o'er my
pale skin
hairless
erotic
orgasmic
place your mind in my
bucket of dreams
ball-gag in mouth
I silent scream
touch me
grease me
penetrate me
love me
forever
 
 
Jack Fear
17:24 / 28.06.02
Don't make me post that picture of the dead horse again, "Billy."
 
 
deja_vroom
15:41 / 23.08.02
The Sax Player(revised)

Harriet's head floats above the saxofone - it's one more note in the alluvium.
The sax player doesn't notice her.
The sax player shakes the colors off like a soaked dog.
Slits of ripped smoke in the sky the band.
The band undertakes an arch.
The band falls and it's captured by the doors And windows of sleep.
The fingers rip
The forever-blue of the sky.

Blue splinters.
Fall like tired parakeets and are left behind.
The dancers ripen and are reaped.
They are sold by dozens in misty streets.
The dancers are in a hurry.
What they don't have is weight,
Hence they don't suffer the action of gravity.
They know that somewhere in this immense country
There's a train crossing the plains,
And their hopes travel with it.

The dancers shake like coins,
The dancers are happy coins in someone's pocket.
They're fifty-cent ghosts of the Savoy, of Minton's.

With a swing of the hips
Towers collapse,
Serpents are crushed under heels.
The country's purpose is to grow.
The marquees smile in the middle of democracy,
State of glory all over the nation!

The sax player sleeps in the autumn.
We know that he sleeps as we know of a garden That's just there.
In the spring he wakes up melliferous,
And drags Ganesha in a dance.
(How bellows the sax player!)
And the dance spreads as an old, sandy wave
In a photography of a beach,
Well-behaved inside the compact picture.
And each obstacle
Dances uncontrollably,
And each obstacle laughs and is demolished.

The notes are nervous, electric wolfpacks
They take the highways all of a sudden!
It´s the signal for the old ballrooms
To start vomiting ghosts in a convulsion like a shriek.
We can't even know for sure
Where the dance ends and where the tracheotomy begins.

The sax player is not responsible for his acts.
He is the conduit man, he's just a subway map.
The sax player has sub-levels and access routes.
He is the between-the-three-and-the-four,
The piston, or a row of them,
Or a wheel, or a collision,
Or maybe just the possibility, for now.
The sax player inhabits the Air Pump.
He is a rip in the tissue,
An hemorrhage vibrating in the Universe's trachea.

230802
 
 
The Apple-Picker
17:07 / 23.08.02
Jade, for now I'm just going to do quick pass over this. I'll come back to it if I have anything else to add, or time in which to add it.

The Sax Player

Harriet's head floats above the saxofone - it's one more key in the alluvium.
--I'm not sure about elsewhere, but in the U.S., the word is spelled saxophone.
The sax player doesn't notice her.
The sax player shakes the colors off like a soaked dog.
--I really like this image.
Slits of ripped smoke in the sky the band. --This sentence doesn't make grammatical sense.

The band undertakes an arch.
The band falls and it's captured by the doors and windows of sleep.
The fingers rip
The forever-blue of the sky.
--Typo? No need for the capitalization on this line.

Blue splinters. --As a sentence fragment, this does nothing to enhance the piece. Drop the period. It also is very choppy on it's own line. You might want to think about "Blue splinters fall / like tired parakeets / and are left behind." Or maybe "Blue splinters fall like tired parakeets / and are left behind." I'm not really sure. I don't claim to be an expert on line breaks, but as you have it, it's not working.
Fall like tired parakeets and are left behind.
The dancers ripen and are reaped.
They are sold by dozens in misty streets.
The dancers are in a hurry.
What they don't have is weight,
Hence they don't suffer the action of gravity.
--Again, I'd make the H here lowercase. Caps on each new line don't make sense in this piece, at least, not to me. I do like hearing explanations though! (I won't repeat this suggestion for this piece; I mean the same thing every time it crops up.)
They know that somewhere in this immense country
There's a train crossing the plains,
--"there is a train..." flows better to me, instead of the contraction.
And with it travel their hopes. --word order seems a little forced here. Instead maybe: "There is a train crossing the plains, / and their hopes travel with it." Do you want me to draw attention to the passive voice here with "there is a train"? You could write this more effectively, I think.

The dancers shake like coins,
The dancers are happy coins
--The second line in this stanza, I would altogether drop. The repetition of "the dancers" here is not as strong as the repetition earlier in this piece.
In the pockets of a beggar touched by wine. --"touched by wine" is weak. You can better communicate that this man has been drinking.
They're 50-cents ghosts of the Savoy, of Minton's. --"50-cent"--not plural. Also, I suggest spelling out fifty.
Towers collapse with a swing of the hips --need a full-stop.
Serpents are crushed under heels. --passive voice. I'm not saying that passive voice is always bad, just that it's often not so good.
The country's purpose is to grow.
The marquees smile in the middle of democracy,
--maybe a colon here, instead of a comma.
State of glory all over the nation!

The sax player sleeps in the Autumn.
--seasons are typically not capitalized
We know that he sleeps as we know of a garden that's just there.
In the Spring he wakes up, melliferous,
--No such word as “melliferous” as far as I have seen. Millefioris? Is that what you mean? And if you’re manipulating the spelling for the word “ferrous,” then you need another ‘r,’ but don’t. The manipulation does *not* work in this context.
And drags Ganesha in a dance.
(How bellows the sax player!)
And the dance spreads as an ancient wave
In a photography of a beach,
Well-behaved inside the compact picture.
And each obstacle
Dances uncontrollably,
And each obstacle laughs and is demolished.
The notes are electrical wolfpacks, nervous
They take the highways all of a sudden!
The ghosts at the Savoy bounce in the walls as if receiving shocks.
It´s the signal for the old ballrooms
To start vomiting ghosts in a convulsion like a shriek.
We can't even know for sure
Where the dance ends and where the tracheotomy begins.
--Jade, this entire stanza is incredibly pompous in tone and it becomes very ugly at the end. The diction, the sound—very ugly. If that was your intention, well, bravo. But this needs some serious work, far more work than the rest of your piece, if it wasn’t.

The sax player is not responsible for his acts.
He is the conduit man, he's just a subway map.
The sax player has sub-levels and access routes.
He is the between-the-three-and-the-four,
The piston, or a row of them,
Or a wheel, or a collision,
Or maybe just the possibility, for now.
The sax player inhabits the Pneumatic Machine.
He is a rip in the tissue,
An hemorrhage vibrating in the Universe's trachea.
--“Universe’s trachea” is a very awkward phrase.

You have a really interesting way of putting ideas together sometimes. It's cool to see those experiments. But they don't always work. Happy writing and good luck to you.

I'll bet you're a better writer in your native language, though. Do you take on writing poetry in English for the challenge? I'm curious.
 
 
deja_vroom
17:54 / 23.08.02
Wow.

The thing is: this is a piece that already exists in Portuguese, I just tried to translate it to the best of my knowledge into English - hence the awkwardness of some passages(which sometimes I don't even think is inherently a bad thing).
--I'm not sure about elsewhere, but in the U.S., the word is spelled saxophone.
Thank you very much. It just slipped past me.

Slits of ripped smoke in the sky the band. -- This sentence doesn't make grammatical sense.
I know, but it's supposed to be that way. I'm still thinking through this part, to see if it has it's own value. This is more of a concretist approach to poetry writing (I don't know about literary movements in U.S., but there are some very interesting stuff being done in Brazil for some time already in the concretist movement, which would be considered "nonsense" by the canon. I don't know how to talk about this experience to you. But believe me, it's exactly as I intended it to be. POETRY=NEW.

(...)The forever-blue of the sky. --Typo? No need for the capitalization on this line. I always capitalize in the beginning of each line. It's just my thing, and it doesn't mean each new line is a new sentence. Always follow the punctuation marks. (again, a freer approach to poetry-writing. There are no rules that cannot be bent if the reason is good enough. Jose Saramago ALWAYS writes his dialogues like this:

"Then Joseph said, Mother, where did father go, He went to search for a place to sleep, Is he coming back today, Well, I don't know, Mother, why all this noise, I'm trying to sleep, and this was Marcus, who was still feeling sick, Are you better, brother,Yes, I am, Go to sleep both of you, said Mary, for she was tired...". All in a continuing line, separated by commas. It takes a while to get use to. But... you know, if the writer feels he has to write in a certain way...

Blue splinters. --As a sentence fragment, this does nothing to enhance the piece. Drop the period. It also is very choppy on it's own line. You might want to think about "Blue splinters fall / like tired parakeets / and are left behind." Or maybe "Blue splinters fall like tired parakeets / and are left behind." I'm not really sure. I don't claim to be an expert on line breaks, but as you have it, it's not working.
The line "Blue splinters" is supposed to be a splinter. What you notice as "not working" is the splinter hurting the poem's flesh. It irritates, it makes the reading process more difficult... It's a splinter.

There's a train crossing the plains, --"there is a train..." flows better to me, instead of the contraction.

You're right. I'm gonna fix this one.

And with it travel their hopes. --word order seems a little forced here. Instead maybe: "There is a train crossing the plains, / and their hopes travel with it." Do you want me to draw attention to the passive voice here with "there is a train"? You could write this more effectively, I think.

Righ again. It's poor, sort of clumsy. I'll change it according to your suggestion.

The dancers shake like coins,
The dancers are happy coins
--The second line in this stanza, I would altogether drop. The repetition of "the dancers" here is not as strong as the repetition earlier in this piece.
Aww... I', really fond of this repetition, man . I guess it's one of those things that work better in a certain language...

In the pockets of a beggar touched by wine. --"touched by wine" is weak. You can better communicate that this man has been drinking.
Yeah, this is kind of poor... I'll come to this part later and see what I can do...

They're 50-cents ghosts of the Savoy, of Minton's. --"50-cent"--not plural. Also, I suggest spelling out fifty.

Thanks!

Towers collapse with a swing of the hips --need a full-stop.
Or a comma. I'll change this one.

Serpents are crushed under heels. --passive voice. I'm not saying that passive voice is always bad, just that it's often not so good.

I'll think about this.

The country's purpose is to grow.
The marquees smile in the middle of democracy,
--maybe a colon here, instead of a comma.

Ditto.

State of glory all over the nation!
The sax player sleeps in the Autumn.
--seasons are typically not capitalized

Thanks!

We know that he sleeps as we know of a garden that's just there.
In the Spring he wakes up, melliferous,
--No such word as “melliferous” as far as I have seen.
"Melliferous" [L. mellifer; mel, mellis, honey + ferre to bear.] means "Forming or bearing honey", "Producing honey". It does exist.

And drags Ganesha in a dance.
(How bellows the sax player!)
And the dance spreads as an ancient wave
In a photography of a beach,
Well-behaved inside the compact picture.
And each obstacle
Dances uncontrollably,
And each obstacle laughs and is demolished.
The notes are electrical wolfpacks, nervous
They take the highways all of a sudden!
The ghosts at the Savoy bounce in the walls as if receiving shocks.
It´s the signal for the old ballrooms
To start vomiting ghosts in a convulsion like a shriek.
We can't even know for sure
Where the dance ends and where the tracheotomy begins.
--Jade, this entire stanza is incredibly pompous in tone and it becomes very ugly at the end. The diction, the sound—very ugly. If that was your intention, well, bravo. But this needs some serious work, far more work than the rest of your piece, if it wasn’t.

Re:Sound: I'll re-read it carefully and try to find synoyms or new ways to structure the phrases to make it more beautiful.
Re:Pomposity: Please ould you elaborate? I'm at a loss in this one.

The sax player is not responsible for his acts.
He is the conduit man, he's just a subway map.
The sax player has sub-levels and access routes.
He is the between-the-three-and-the-four,
The piston, or a row of them,
Or a wheel, or a collision,
Or maybe just the possibility, for now.
The sax player inhabits the Pneumatic Machine.
He is a rip in the tissue,
An hemorrhage vibrating in the Universe's trachea.
--“Universe’s trachea” is a very awkward phrase.

I'm waiting eagerly to hear your suggestion here. I *have* to talk about the Universe's trachea.

I'll bet you're a better writer in your native language, though. Do you take on writing poetry in English for the challenge? I'm curious.

No, not for the challenge. I'm not writing it in English, just trying to translate a finished piece in Portuguese into English. I guess if I can translate poetry from one language to another, I'll be able to translate pretty much *anything*. It's sort of an exercise, really.

Cheers, man, thanks for the tips, thoughts and hints. I'll sweat over this one for some more time, then make the necessary amendments.
 
 
The Apple-Picker
18:54 / 23.08.02
Hey, I'm glad some of the suggestions worked for you.

After rereading your piece, that "Blue splinters" line stuck out for me again. With your explanation, and reading it a few different ways (the best being with blue as a noun, instead of as an adjective), it works better for me now.

I am not very experimental in my writing. I tend to keep my writes pretty simple. Pretty simple and under 30 lines--short attention span.

As for "Universe's trachea," I'm still at a loss. Just with that possessive S, it sounds terrible. "...trachea of the Universe" is a tad better, but transplanted into your line, it's a little awkward because of the preposition 'in.' So many prepositions! I'm not convinced that it doesn't work that way. What do you think?
 
 
gridley
19:19 / 23.08.02
Hey, gang. I would be honored if you'd take a look at this piece and tell me what you think.

We never leave the lights on for ourselves

We pledged to seek out the oh-so proverbial god in the machine,
you and me, Susie Q
—I call all the ladies Susie Q—
me and you, kid explorers,
but we found no whispering secrets in their pried-off metal casings,
just a host of gears, wires, and bendy metal thingies
that we’ll never get back together again.
So we went looking elsewhere.
We combed the earth in rocket ships pierced through with corrugated silver studs
and we plummeted into maps of churches
bending roughly white lines on blue paper
written out before the day you were born.
We searched for the god in the sound of insects
and the god in the moon in the center of it all
and we searched for the god in the great Joseph K.
—I call only one man Joseph K.—
and throughout most of the places that were not prisons.
Betrayed by drink and incessant prattle,
we even searched for a god in the lies that children tell,
but that too came to nothing but meanness and mudpies.
So we looked for the God inside ourselves,
me in you, and you in I, I guess,
hell, who bothers drawing lines once the clothes are off and on the floor.
We sat there, atop each other, in turns and seasons,
savaging our bodies open with all the sharp knives of kitchen drawers,
and anything else at hand,
what were those? meat scissors?
And we searched,
pushing through our bellies with fingers,
like a sad man wading tentatively through a flooded basement,
filled with floating swampy mounds of paperback books,
water gone pulpy and softly thick,
in search of some lost golden ring.
And we smiled when we had failed yet again.
Smiley smiles. That sad man should have seen us. We should have seen us.
But the truth is this, that I smiled just because you did,
and though I did not understand it then
I see now that it was the same for you.
And everything went mirrored memories around us,
and I will always believe you shouted out these following words:
“We should remember this when the shoe is on the other foot… but we won’t!”
and I am trying to tell us exactly that right now, with these very words,
because after that bit it was almost already over,
and then you turned yourself into your own world.
And I turned myself into mine.
 
 
Strange Machine Vs The Virus with Shoes
21:12 / 24.08.02
The benefits of others must come before yours
So says the praxis of revolutionary reform
Be a saint
Be pure
Find the cure
For the human malaise
But they don’t want the freedom,
you can give.
They want their own and no mistake

With your head up your ass
And the world under your magnifying glass
You can’t comprehend the future, the task
The point is they don’t ask.

So quit fucking around
And find your own path
 
  

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