Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Radio & Music >

Is there something wrong with Tool?

Page: 1(2)3

Matthew Fluxington

12:13 / 30.01.02

Well, just grasping at straws here, but maybe something Tool, Pink Floyd, Radiohead, the Manics, and New Model Army all have in common is that they are the grandiose weird/ambitious bands on corporate labels, and that can cause a lot of resentment for those people who may be aware of music that does the similar things 'better' but on a non-corporate label. The money pumped into these bands is indeed a part of why they have gained such a wide audience...

13:16 / 30.01.02

quote:Originally posted by [N.O.B.O.D.Y.] -Supersónico-:

Now that's a fascist and unfair statement, and sadly, one I've heard many times. Yes, you can learn from everything; even from the horrible stuff you can learn what not to do. But you can't shut the mouth of somebody just because they haven't produced work of their own. What you always can do is avoid reading criticism of people you know you can't trust, according to your personal tastes, but not to allow them an opinion? That would be going a bit far, I think.

As I said directly after the post, there was a touch of venting in there

. I shouldn't have blended two issues. One being the tying of the validity of a persons opinions to the body of work they have produced. To tell you the truth I don't really believe this anyway. I just get tired of critics speaking about their views like they are dogma, so I make a statement as inane as their own back at them.
The other being what can be learned from individuals who are generally percieved as "evil", that is a much larger issue. (Disclaimer: I will use the general perception of "good" and "evil" for the rest of this post i.e.: Hitler=Bad,
(hah interesting side point, who would this crowd consider good? "Alternative" thinkers such as yourselves love to point the finger at who you agree is bad, but rarely can agree on who is good it seems. I will go with Gandhi, no one can argue with that. . right)
Gandhi=Good)
Under these circumstances I disagree that the only thing to be learned from evil individuals are things "not to do". Even these people spoke a touch of truth amidst their generally perceived evil. Excluding not only the nonexistence of an absolute good and evil but a personal perception of what is good and evil.
uggh . . must . s.top now. . will start. . .arguing . . with myself . . soon.

All extremists should be killed on sight.

13:17 / 30.01.02

Oh yeah, thanks to Jack. Good points.

A

12:21 / 31.01.02

A lot of people here have been theorising that the reason that some people have such an intense aversion to Tool is that Tool fall into some categories (like "prog-metal") which are "uncool". In other words, the people who strongly dislike Tool are actually shallow fools more concerned with "cred" than quality. That's a pretty freakin' patronising stance to take.

I think that a much more likely reason for anti-Toolism is that tool's music is, by any standards, incredibly angsty, downbeat and moody.

Now, i'm sure that that's exactly what some people like about them, but it doesn't make for the sort of music that folks who don't like it will only find mildly annoying.

Personally, i find Tool' music to be unbearably pompous, overblown, depressing, pretentious, and just plain awful. (note- i said personally)

It's my theory that Tool are a result of a collusion between the recording and pharmaceutical industries, with the aim of increasing Prozac sales.

12:42 / 31.01.02

Thats odd, I find them quite uplifting. Really. The Grudge on Lateralus is a great example of one of their songs concerned with positive personal growth.

12:45 / 31.01.02

Just out of curiosity, could the critics post examples of "well done" rock music.

Matthew Fluxington

09:13 / 01.02.02

quote:Originally posted by Steppin' Razer:
Just out of curiosity, could the critics post examples of "well done" rock music.

Why not just read through the archives of the music section and read what some of us have been writing for the past several months?

09:57 / 01.02.02

quote:Originally posted by Steppin' Razer:
Thats odd, I find them quite uplifting. Really. The Grudge on Lateralus is a great example of one of their songs concerned with positive personal growth.

Yeah, all of Lateralus (except for Ticks and Leeches) is pretty uplifting. Even Schism has an element of hope in it.

And 46+2 from Aenima is cool in how it transforms Angst into a chance for growth and shedding of said Angst.

Jack The Bodiless

15:11 / 01.02.02

I don't have time to post something cogent on this right now, as I'm about to go out and get horrible with some beshest mates (one of whom is the guy who took me to see Tool in Brixton last June for my birthday... whatta duuuude) - but I just wanted to thank Superfly for opening up the argument and creating a debate. Just want I want to see in the Music more often... You're a star. Pint coming your way tomorrow...

17:43 / 23.09.05

Here to resurrect this thread....

I love Tool. It's simple. Here's my reasoning: I love Maynard's voice. I love the musicianship. I love the lyrics. I even love the album artwork.

But most of all, I love the fact that their main message is to think for yourself and question authority. I know... other bands have said as much. That's true. The difference between those bands and Tool is that Tool isn't trying to capitalize on the teenaged behavior of rebelling. Unlike, say, Slipknot (a band that I have mixed feelings over), Tool does not sing about being ignored or misunderstood. They do not see about adolescent alienation and isolation. Since I never really went through that phase (my parents are artists, so it's not like my desire to express myself was ignored), that phase of xenophobia and confusion never happened for me, I find that kind of lyric to ring hollow. I can see through it. So with Tool, their lyrics of emotional and spiritual growth gives me something to strive for. Here's an example from the title track to Lateralus (personally, my favorite song by Tool):
We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been
and from the same song:
to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human.
It's not so much about killing gangstas, slapping ho's, or fucking bitches. It's not about big balls or big love affairs. It's about being the best the human race can be. Sure, it's utopian, but then, Maynard will throw this lyric in (from Stinkfist):
Finger deep within the borderline.
Show me that you love me and that we belong together.
This is an example of Maynard knowing the metal landscape. He chooses to talk about something... gross like sticking your fist up another person's anus. But this disgusting image really reveals Maynard's genius, because it's a metaphor for penetrating another level of a relationship, or even further, it's the metaphor for penetrating a whole new spiritual stage of life, of emotional intercourse.
It's his lyrics that make me love Tool. And the fact that they write some good music.

03:03 / 26.09.05

Some of my friends are huge fans of Tool, constantly talking about them, and trying to get me to listen by pointing out how their songs are all about evolution of consciousness and all that good Invisibles kind of stuff. And I've read some of the lyrics, and you certainly could read that into the lyrics, but I just can't enjoy their stuff because it sounds ugly. Maybe it's shallow, but I like beautiful music, and Tool just seems nasty and dark, and that's reinforced by the song titles, and the ambience of the videos.

They remind of films like Se7en and its many imitators, nasty, gray, dark films that I just can't enjoy, even if the plot is strong, because the very act of watching it is offputting. So, Tool may have great lyrics, but it's lost in the dark, ugly instrumentals. And ultimately music is not about what it's saying, but more how it's being said.

All Acting Regiment

07:15 / 26.09.05

Well, that's fair enough Patrick, but I have to say it seems like a shame if you keep away from music that's "ugly"- by which I assume you mean bordering on atonal or excessively loud- because that seems like shutting yourself off from what could be potentially interesting music. Have you ever listened to stuff like the Velvet Underground?

In the case of Tool I would recommend listening to a few of the more mellow tracks from Lateralus- there are some that are really just meditative guitar. In fact as a whole, Lateralus is a lot less spiky and aggressive than the others, though still with a dark, energetic vibe.

rising and revolving

15:49 / 26.09.05

Patrick : I second the Lateralus commendation - start with the Parobola / Parabol pair of tracks and work from there. Lovely Invisibles tinged prog stuff.

I think, anyhow.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

16:31 / 26.09.05

I guess it depends on what you mean by "ugly"... I listen to a lot of ugly music, and I wouldn't put Tool in that category. It's abrasive, sure, aggressive, but ugly?... a lot of Lateralus I find quite beautiful.

17:34 / 26.09.05

I have listened to Velvet Underground, only 'And Nico' so far. They do have some dark, nasty stuff, like 'Heroin,' but I think it's balanced by other songs like 'Sunday Morning.' Maybe saying all 'ugly' music is bad was a bit of an overstatement, not everything's going to be Air or Sigur Ros, but I think that darker stuff works best with contrast, so you need the light to give the dark parts meaning. And in the Tool songs I've heard the contrast seems to be is it just one guitar going or the whole band. So they have quiet parts, but not that muuch change in tone. A similar band that I do like is The Mars Volta who have a bit more variation in their songs, at least on the first album.

Admittedly, I've only heard their singles and listened to Lateralus once, so maybe it just takes a few listens to 'get' their stuff. But the first listen wasn't good enough to compel me to go back for more. Though, considering how they're praised, maybe it's worth another look.

All Acting Regiment

18:24 / 26.09.05

I'd say so. There are still bits of Lateralus I'm only just getting now and I've had it for years.

Now that you've put your comment in context I can see where you're coimng from more: the idea that the shall we say "extreme"-ness of an album is cheapened if there's nothing to balance it. Fair point. Still, as others have said, checkout good old L.

01:38 / 27.09.05

With Aenima, I didn't really listen to it for years. Now, I understand it enough to the point that I get the basic subtexts. Anything else is pure conjecture. It takes a while and a lot of listens to "get" Tool. Of course, any asshole can say that about any superficially dense music, but I believe it. Most people hear the lyrics and get disgusted by its ugliness. With the case of Tool, that ugliness is its beauty. With my above example of Stinkfist, the ugly image of finger-anus-intercourse, comes (no pun intended) a beautiful idea of spiritual intercourse and emotional growth. This only comes from feeling the music and the lyrics. And of course, head banging.

Now I hear from the band formerly known as Peach that the Tool live album is almost done being mixed. Joy. (Peach, of course, being very close friends of Tool and they share one bandmate)

The only thing that would make my life better is a new Tool album, but to paraphrase my favorite Bad Religion lyric:
"No Tool song can make your life complete"

05:38 / 02.03.06

Well, you're about to get your wish, since their new album (unknown title at the moment) is out May 2nd.

Sorry for resurrecting this thread, but, it seems like it's very easy to bring back up threads up to 4 years old on this board, something I'm not used to from more active forums. But I guess that's a good thing, right ?

14:52 / 02.03.06

That is awesome, awesome news.

15:31 / 02.03.06

I am making my passing-a-hard-stool face right now in celebration.

Look at my forehead! Look at the veins!

00:01 / 04.03.06

It's just come in that the name of the new album is '10,000 days' as the art has now been completed and released to the printers for printing, so inevitably the track titles will leak soon as well...

01:30 / 04.03.06

Fear;

I think that if Maynard met you he'd really like you. Of course he would. But it might then be beholden on Maynard, in that situation, to do what he could to lead you forward, into the light, where Maynard and the rest of Tool presumably reside, currently, at least if there's a tattoo parlour there. And I think you're afraid.

I don't understand your antipathy towards Tool, either. They are not called Tool for the reason that everyone thinks they are. It's for a different reason, probably - Personally anyway, I've never heard a band whose makes me want to take hard, street and intravenous drugs to anything like the same extent.

Some people say that they'd rather re-examine America post 9/11 through the lens, eyes, whatever, of a hideous piss-stained leather sock puppet, than listen to Tool. But suely the experience is essentially the same?

Here's a poem I wrote in honour of Tool.

'Tool, Tool,
You might think I'm uncool
Or even a fool
Or, conceivably, a stool

But, fuck you guys!
I'm my own person.'

03:02 / 04.03.06

From Wikipedia:

"Tool has recently finished recording and mastering their fourth full-length studio album titled 10,000 Days. The new album title announce was posted on the official Tool website on March 3, 2006, however, the same day, this announce was removed from the website with no apparent reason. Considering the events preceding the release of Lateralus, during which the band promoted the false title Systema Encéphale, 10,000 Days is likely to be false as well, and is not necessarily a final title. Similar to prior to the release of Lateralus, there have been many rumors about the newest release, including potential stylistic changes, possible titles and a slew of release dates. Since the members of Tool avoid press and rarely grant interviews, there was little evidence to support any of these claims."

04:24 / 04.03.06

Well, what the wikipedia article doesn't state (i'm beginning to hate wikipedia now...) is that it is still posted internally on toolarmy, the "exclusive" forum you get access to if you pay Tool money. So it may be something to do with wanting those members to have access to it first since they paid 100 dollars for privileges such as this.

I could also be completely wrong and it could be a hoax. At least it seems more realistic than the previously rumored names 'Aldaraia', 'Teleincision', 'Tool' and 'Elephteria'

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

06:55 / 04.03.06

To be honest, I'm not too bothered about what they call it. It could be called "Stoatie's A Wanker" and I'd still buy it.

uncle retrospective

08:34 / 04.03.06

I still haven;t gotten into Lateralus so I'm hoping that the new CD is less prog and more rock. Either way I'll have to see if it's been leaked yet.

A

03:14 / 05.03.06

I recently read an old interview with Maynard from Tool (from the early 90's, I believe) where he bemoaned the fact that the "wrong" kind of people listened to his music, and expressed his wish that meathead jock types would leave them alone and listen to Alice In Chains instead. An interesting insight into the mind of a modern poet, to be sure.

All Acting Regiment

06:22 / 05.03.06

Link to it?

18:40 / 05.03.06

I think that everyone, meathead-jock-type-identified or otherwise, would be well advised to take Maynard's advice there.

(I should probably say, however, that my opinions here are almost entirely based on Tool's publicity shots, and that I have never in fact heard a note of their oeuvre.)

04:26 / 06.03.06

I recently read an old interview with Maynard from Tool (from the early 90's, I believe) where he bemoaned the fact that the "wrong" kind of people listened to his music, and expressed his wish that meathead jock types would leave them alone and listen to Alice In Chains instead.
Because Alice in Chains have a musclebound jock lead singer and they sing about chicks and beer!

05:29 / 06.03.06

had

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

09:13 / 06.03.06

he bemoaned the fact that the "wrong" kind of people listened to his music

I think that's a fairly shit attitude myself. Doesn't put me off the band, though- a lot of artists and musicians are similarly arrogant. It'd be nice if they weren't, but who can tell if their work would suffer as a result?

Baobab Branches and Plastic

09:55 / 06.03.06

Ha:

From wiki: Maynard from tool
Sang for Alice in Chains at a 2005 benefit concert in Seattle, replacing the deceased Layne Staley. He sang the songs "Them Bones", "Man in the Box", and "Rooster".

13:21 / 06.03.06

It was an amazing performance. I had the bootleg somewhere. Maynard doesn't quite compare to Layne Staley's mournful and shredding vocals.

Jack The Bodiless

10:18 / 08.03.06

Mmmm... given that Keenan was a mate of both the late Staley and Jerry Cantrell, it's conceivable that he was taking the piss...

Page: 1(2)3