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Rock 'n roll aint subversive

 
  

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The Monkey
14:07 / 24.01.02
Lyra,
'twas I that mentioned the "invented youth culture" bit. I chose to leave things open vis-a-vis interpreting that formation as being an invention of the Establishment or otherwise.
Anyway, I'm not sure their is such a monolithic superstructure as "the Establishment."
I mean "the rebellion of youth" is as much a commericial, economic subsystem of european-derived culture as "maintaining the status quo." Think cross-culturally and historically. In most of the world cultures and through most of time, adolescence hasn't been associated with rebellion.
Shit, a lot of folks don't even have an construct of adolescence. You're a child, then you're a grown-up. For women the demarcation line was menstruation, for men it was usually a comparable, artificially induced blood-letting--first hunt/kill, circumcision, subincision [ouch!], etc.

From here on out, speculation ensues:

Adolescence as an idea calcified only with the invention of secondary and university schooling, back in the day when someone decided that maybe people other than monks should learn to read good. The institution of the university was established itself as a sort of hot-house for intellectual innovation shielded from the wrath of organized religion, a proving ground for ideas, from which those concepts that facilitated the governing paradigm of that particular nation could be transplanted and encouraged to grow. Rather, the whole endeavour kind of blew up like the untended contents of the refridgerator, with all sorts of pro- and anti-"Establishment" ideas flowing forth.

The funny thing is, the teachers were the intellectual innovators: only a tiny fraction of the student youth fabricated new ideas, and most simply adhered to an intellectual dogma they picked up. It's the old caveat of the difference between Freud and the Freudians, Marx and Marxists, Socrates and that bloody groupie Plato: the teacher poses the rhetorical question, the student accepts the question as an answer. Verrryyy shilly.

To this day, adolescent rebels are largely individuals adhering to a set of preconceptions and social-address rules invented by somebody else, typically in middle-age. And that's not getting into the drives to simultaneously differentiate and inter-tie oneself with the peer group....
 
 
The Monkey
14:09 / 24.01.02
Yes, we are all individuals!
 
 
The Planet of Sound
15:45 / 24.01.02
I'm not.
 
 
Mystery Gypt
17:46 / 24.01.02
i still think lyra should give an example of something, from any time or any culture, that is an example of "subversion."

there is a big difference between revolution and subversion. Marx's work led to revolutions the world over.

so what does subversion mean? where does it come from, what does it affect?

(or would you suggest, in a conspiritologist endgame that needs no response, that the very concept of "subversion" was created by "them," like how in 1984 the book of resistance to big brother was in fact written by big brother?)
 
 
The Monkey
20:20 / 24.01.02
My dark masters--all seventy-three different groups that shadowy-ly govern the planet-- don't like to hear that kind of talk, Mystery Gypt.
Oddly enough, though, the Unspeakable Horrors From Beyond Space and Time asked me to blow you a kiss. [smack]
 
 
The Monkey
20:22 / 24.01.02
And remember that the Elders of Zion are holding a Latke Jamboree and Bingo Night at the foot of the Sphinx, at 7:00pm Cairo time.
Be there, or be the first against the wall!
 
 
Ganesh
20:30 / 24.01.02
Bring bread.
 
 
No star here laces
06:31 / 25.01.02
I gots da fishes.
 
 
Fist Fun
06:44 / 25.01.02
quote:Drummond's theory is a nice idea, and it's one I've heard dredged up many times by people who want their taste in music and their politics to be able to fit together neatly with no contradictions or complications. Sadly, it doesn't really hold water.

True. Is it it really so sad, though?
 
  

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