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Wu-Tang

 
  

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tSuibhne
15:37 / 12.12.01
quote:Originally posted by Flux = Rad:
It's like electric Miles Davis times 20, or a more organic live version of Squarepusher's jazzy records, like Music Is Rotted One Note... It sounds like music from the future, and it was recorded in 1974. Check it out, it's usually on mid-price...


Ok, not trying to highjack this thread, but, Flux, on the 29th a band called Lake Trout is playing at the Knitting Factory. Go see them, I got a feeling you'll like.

Of course, that assumes that you haven't heard of them. Which you might have, since they're from Baltimore.

I'd tell you what they sound like, but I haven't seen them for awhile, so I don't really know anymore. Their sound is constantly mutating. Started out chill acid jazz then they scrapped that and started doing the drum and bass being played by live instruments thing. Then they got into post-rock groups. Last I saw them this whole mess had taken on an evil bent and was getting pretty sick.

Prone to really cool group improvisation (they're against soloing). Always very funky. I highly suggest you give 'em a listen.

You can get info (and may be some old, out of date sound clips) at LakeTrout.com or you can check out more up to date sound clips in shn format at Binary Cortex
 
 
Seth
16:09 / 12.12.01
Yeah, that was my point, Flyboy. Every MC who graces Ironman is wicked, but it was released nearly six years ago.

One of my mates reckons Ghostface wrote all his verses on that album, anyway.
 
 
tracypanzer
12:13 / 13.12.01
Just read a piece in 'Time Out New York' about the Wu's new album. Good article, talks some about how they wanted ODB to do a track from prison over the phone, but then he got sent upstate and lost his phone privileges so they got Flavor Flav to do it instead. RZA wants to make movies now, which I guess isn't all that big a surprise.

Has anyone seen the James Toback film 'Black & White'? It's pretty uneven, but the stuff w/ the Wu Tang Clan and that Power guy is fucking fascinating.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
12:45 / 13.12.01
I Am: I've heard a lot of nice things about Lake Trout here and there (I seem to remember a nice review in the Wire recently), but I've never actually heard them. I know I'll be in the city on the 29th, and I don't really have any plans for that day as of yet, so I think I may go see that show...thanks.
 
 
tSuibhne
17:41 / 13.12.01
Let me know what you think if you see them Flux.
 
 
autopilot disengaged
09:33 / 14.12.01
hmmmm.

i kind of fell out of love with the Wu-Tang a while ago - quite a while ago - seemed they got to a point where they were buying into their own myth to the exclusion of everything else. last thing i bought was the 'GhostDog' soundtrack, which was, admittedly, excellent.

...dammit. sudden urge to catch up.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
09:33 / 14.12.01
Autopilot: you should at very least get Supreme Clientele if you haven't already. That record is seriously brilliant.
 
 
rizla mission
10:41 / 14.12.01
quote:Originally posted by autopilot disengaged:

i kind of fell out of love with the Wu-Tang a while ago - quite a while ago - seemed they got to a point where they were buying into their own myth to the exclusion of everything else.


Now I'd kinda consider that a good thing - I'd far rather hear them rapping about being invincible ninja superheroes at the end of the world than 'keeping it real'.. I really enjoy their myth - listening to the Wu-Tang go on about how great they are is so much more fun than listening to most other rappers going on about how great they are..
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:49 / 14.12.01
Okay, I bought Bulletproof Wallets yesterday, and something very weird is going on with the tracklisting (more so even than with Liquid Swords). Basically, there are two versions of the album in the shops: they have identical covers, but the tracklisting on the back is different: one starts with just 'Intro' and ends with 'Street Chemistry', the other doesn't have 'Street Chemistry' listed and starts with 'The Sun' (which isn't listed on the first version). The rest of the tracks are all the same but in different orders.

Anyway, I bought the one that starts with 'The Sun', because I've heard that track and it's great - has Slick Rick on it. But when I get it home and put it on, I discover that the CD itself is in fact the other version. Aaaarrggghh!
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
13:12 / 14.12.01
Flyboy... at the moment I can't help you with the proper tracklist, but I do have the one that ends with Street Chemistry in the tracklist.

To clarify what songs are what, go to OHHLA and try matching up the lyrics...
 
 
tracypanzer
13:50 / 14.12.01
This is off-topic but I always thought that a Saturday monrning cartoon featuring the Wu-Tang clan as little kids would be really cool. Call the show the Wu-Tang Gang. Have Ghostface Killah's mom driving them around Shao Lin in a van, fighting crimes.
 
 
autopilot disengaged
21:07 / 14.12.01
quoteriginally posted by rizla year zero:
Now I'd kinda consider that a good thing - I'd far rather hear them rapping about being invincible ninja superheroes at the end of the world than 'keeping it real'..


it wasn't that, riz. it was when i opened up - uh, i think it was 'ironman', and found about half the packaging dedicated to selling me their wu-wear gear.

yuk. can i get a "don't believe the hype"?

oh - and ancaphalo(mumble, mumble) - that is one seriously fantastic idea.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
13:42 / 15.12.01
quote:


it wasn't that, riz. it was when i opened up - uh, i think it was 'ironman', and found about half the packaging dedicated to selling me their wu-wear gear.

yuk. can i get a "don't believe the hype"?


I don't think that's a good example of a point that I really do think you have... that's just them selling their wares, and it may not be 100% tasteful, but I don't think it's them letting success go to their heads. A lot of bands hype their t-shirts and website and back catalog in their packaging... It's a bit crass, but it's no big deal.
 
 
moriarty
00:38 / 17.12.01
Free Ol' Dirty!
 
 
Cop Killer
04:40 / 17.12.01
quote:Originally posted by encephalonaut:
This is off-topic but I always thought that a Saturday monrning cartoon featuring the Wu-Tang clan as little kids would be really cool. Call the show the Wu-Tang Gang. Have Ghostface Killah's mom driving them around Shao Lin in a van, fighting crimes.


Me and my friend Paul were talking about how we're upset that Method Man and Redman do not have their own cartoon as of yet (we also feel that they should have had a movie deal at least five years ago). It would be like Kid 'n' Play's old cartoon, but, y'know, good.
 
 
crogdad
14:17 / 19.12.01
I have nothing to add to the convo, but I am very excited about picking up Iron Flag. I do need to mention that Bulletproof Wallets has really grown on me after a few listens during a long road trip I just took. It's a much smaller album than Supreme Clientele, but I knew that it had to be going in. It's just so rare to strike that kind of gold twice in a row. I also have to comment on RZA's Digital Bullet. This is an album that I shelved for a few months after the first two listens. The last couple of times through, though, I realized that a couple of the elements that I first considered sloppy and flawed are purposeful somewhat compelling. Still, you have to like RZA an awful lot to like the album.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:58 / 21.12.01
Presenting the Apollo and Midnighter of rap:



No question, Bulletproof Wallets isn't as good as Supreme Clientele, there just isn't as much stuff *there*, but it has grown on me... There are some instant tracks there that have that production that makes you go 'cor!': 'Theodore', 'The Forest', 'The Hilton'... I would put 'Flowers' here but the production on the CD is different (ie, inferior) to one I've heard on MP3 and in a club... weird. Still, Method Man verse on that is great "ain't shit, holdin my dick, smokin a clip, thanks for askin, mashin the latest fashions" - woo!

Others have grown on me though: 'Walking Through Darkness', 'The Juks', 'Strawberry' (I laugh nervously and guilty at the "slurpin and burpin" bit). 'Maxine' especially has really grown on me... as an opening track it's actually really good. You've got that great soul/funk sound that seems to be coming back in a big way in hip-hop right now, your classic Ghost and Rae storytelling stuff at the start (somehow they manage to be great storytellers and also utterly confusing, but you have to love the Al Green reference), and then it builds into this big anthemic chorus that you just want to pogo up and down and point yer finger in a silly pointy way and shout along to: "ALL, ALL, ALL IN TOGETHER NOW..."

Still think 'The Sun' should have been on it... and we don't need shit like 'Jealousy'.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
14:14 / 21.12.01
"The Apollo and Midnighter of rap..." ha!

Anyway, I'm dying to know what you think of Iron Flag, Flyboy.

I'm really in love with it, the only weak song is "Chrome Wheels", which from top to bottom is a Bobby Digital tune slapped into the sequence of a Wu LP.

One thing I really appreciate about Iron Flag is how the lesser-known Wu MCs like Masta Killa, Inspectah Deck, and U-God are really put in the spotlight this time around...Deck is on 10 out of 12 songs, for christ's sake! I think some of the best performances on the LP come from U-God, who is improving rapidly on every record. I'm not sure why the guy can't seem to get together a solo hit for himself...He's always great on the funkier party-type tracks, I think he's on the verge of something really great on his own.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:34 / 21.12.01
I've only heard about half of Iron Flag properly: I do like what I've heard, especially the title track, 'One Of These Days, 'Babies' and *especially* 'Rules'. I'm kind of obsessed with 'Rules' at the moment: I love the way Ghost kicks it off with the first real response in hip-hop to 9/11, and it's a really interesting one... he criticeses Dubya and by implication the way the war is being run, and yet there's the whole "I have no beef with whoever you are, just don't fuck with my city" sentiment... I love the fact that he's basically offering whoever was responsible (and it's one man, he thinks) outside for a one-on-one fight... A much better way to settle things, really. Osama and Ghost throwing down.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
14:45 / 21.12.01
For those interested in knowing what the lyrics we're talking about are, this is Ghostface's verse from "Rules", as transcribed by me (OHHLA doesn't have this song up yet):


who the fuck knocked our buildings down?
who's the man behind the World Trade massacre? step up now
where the four planes at?
(somewhat unintelligable line)
fly that shit over my hood and get blown to bits
no disrespect, that's where I rest my head
I understand you've gotta rest yours too, nigga, my people's dead
America: together we stand, divided we fall
Mr. Bush, sit down, I'm in charge of the war


anyway, I'm agreeing with your assessment of the verse...I'd like to point out that Ghostface seems fairly respectful of both Bush and 'the man behind the World Trade massacre' ---he doesn't even jump on Osama bin Laden, which is interesting, it seems like he's skeptical of assuming the lead suspect is neccessarily the man who did it..
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:48 / 21.12.01
He's certainly equivocal...

Incidentally, I'm currently listening to 'The Whole World' by Outkast. It really grows on you, after initially making you think "what the fuck?". 'Funkin Around' is good too, just for the silly mockney Andre 3000 intro...
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
14:51 / 21.12.01
oh, and Flyboy: I implore you in particular to pick up the Jay-Z unplugged album. You will love it. It is a LOT of fun. Trust me.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
14:53 / 21.12.01
I think that "The Whole World" sounds a bit like it belongs on Parklife by Blur... which I can't imagine saying about anything else in the history of hip hop.

Those three new Outkast songs are brilliant...It was almost cruel of them to give us those songs to make us wait another year or so for another full LP...I want more of that, now!
 
 
rizla mission
15:01 / 21.12.01
Outkast? sounding like park life?

is that the best thing ever or the worst thing ever .. I .. can't decide..

they could do a mean cover version.
 
 
not nervous
22:21 / 22.12.01
quote:Originally posted by Flux = 'Coltrane':
I implore you in particular to pick up the Jay-Z unplugged album. You will love it. It is a LOT of fun. Trust me.



Yeah! in "the takeover" when the band start playing new york state of mind! oooohhh!

have you heard "ether" on illmatic? it's pretty amazing: What's sad is i love you cuz you're my brouther, you traded your soul for riches/ my child i've watched you grow up to be famous so i smile like a proud dad watching his only son that made it/ you seem to be only concerned with dissin women/ were you abused as a child, scared to smile, they called you ugly?/ my life is harsh hug me, don't reject me/ or make records to disrespect me/ blatant or indirectly

whew!
 
 
No star here laces
22:26 / 23.12.01
Mmmm. Way behind schedule, I picked up Iron Flag, and Wallets a couple of days ago, and haven't had time to get really intimate with 'em yet, but a few thoughts...

Production-wise, both these records are really interesting for picking up on the synthesiser/dance music influence on current hip hop in a really interesting way.

The primary reference point for the modern sound is that kind of 80s electro/early 90s techno hoover noise, and the acid-y tweak sound. These are very overtly synthetic noises and combine on a lot of records with a much stiffer beat and groove. RZA has bypassed this by still referencing dance music, but using early house as a start point instead. Both these records feature cowbells and the sort of stuttered 808 snare rhythm that a lot of early chicago house featured. He also uses that Todd Edwards/UK Garage chopped up melody trick subtly on a couple of tracks.

Now these are stylistic quirks that I've always loved from that era of music, so I like it. dunno if anyone else picked up on this? I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that RZA's engineer is DJ Choco, who is a house producer. Most other hip hop producers are referencing ecstasy culture through the bits of dance music that sound most salient to them - i.e. the synth noises, whereas RZA has an insider who knows his history to help him out, hence the difference...

I have to say that neither of these records are, to me, anywhere near these artists' best work. Iron Flag is a supremely competent album. It is full of good production, with some interesting quirks, and solid mcing. It just isn't exciting. On first listen it didn't make me want to jump up and check the name of the track that was playing (unlike the Timbaland and Magoo record, where I did this on practically every tune).

Wallets is a better record than Iron Flag, but it isn't brilliant either. Supreme Clientele will probably be the definitive Ghost album for all time, simply because he absolutely lets go - it's uninhibited rhyming. In his finest moments Ghost forgets about structure, narrative, the way ordinary people use the english language, all of that, and just rhymes. Ecstatically. The whole album is like speaking in tongues - that's its beauty. Wallets doesn't have this - he's reigned himself in a lot. And this has its own merits. i love the stories and the skewed take he has on them, but can't help but feel Raekwon's presence writ large on the record. Chef is an amazing fantasist and storyteller, and that's what this record is about. Ghost is about pure unfettered words, and although he shines through on occasion, the record felt to me like a Raekwon album with Ghostface rhyming on it, more than anything else. and I know what I'd rather have...
 
 
Seth
09:01 / 26.12.01
Yeah, I second those comments, Lyra. Both albums are solid, kinda interesting, but not great. I'm glad the Wu are still trying to be contenders, but they need just a bit more inspiration, fire and consistency. I may take them back after commiting them to mini-disc (this is one group that I really can't afford to be completist about any more).
 
 
tSuibhne
17:14 / 31.12.01
quote:Originally posted by Flux = Professional:
I Am: I've heard a lot of nice things about Lake Trout here and there (I seem to remember a nice review in the Wire recently), but I've never actually heard them. I know I'll be in the city on the 29th, and I don't really have any plans for that day as of yet, so I think I may go see that show...thanks.


Flux, did you get a chance to check them out? I meant to remind you, and forgot.

Oh, and on the subject of funky bands that don't feel a need to have a grip hold on reality. Check out the All Mighty Senators Ok, I'll stop now.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
18:24 / 31.12.01
No, sorry. I wasn't in NYC that day.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
05:13 / 14.07.03
Just picked up my first Wu-Tang disc, The W, from the cheapie shop up the road. $10, baby! Am listening now, but from what I gather so far, the calls about it being pretty sparse are right. Only up to "Careful (Click Click)", but liking much.
 
 
Seth
11:01 / 14.07.03
Proud of you, Roth. Hope you enjoy. Get Enter the Wu-Tang next!
 
 
The Falcon
15:17 / 14.07.03
I've still not picked up 'Iron Flag'.

My favourite Wu album is Rza's 'Bobby Digital in Stereo', closely followed by Ol' Dirty's 'Nigga Please'. Or 'N**** Please'.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:37 / 24.07.03
A terrible rumour has surfaced on PopBitch:

Method Man has quit Wu-Tang. and already has a track
dissing his bandmates called Verbal Darts. The Clan
have their own anti-Meth track too - "Real Niggaz".


PopBitch isn't exactly the most reliable source in the world, and I haven't seen this anywhere else, but... it's possible. It's less likely than almost any other hip-hop split or feud I could imagine, but it's possible. If true, it would be a crying shame - apart from anything else, I'd be tempted to say that the Wu-Tang Clan would be more or less through. People like Ghost and RZA could pick up a lot of the slack, but still... Imagine Iron Flag without Meth, it'd be about half as good.

Meth's still doing okay if recent track 'Uh-Huh' is anything to go by, but again, if this is true, I imagine his music is going to focus largely on making club tunes that, whilst still excellent, don't have the bite or weirdness of his work with the Clan.

God, I hope this rumour is bullshit.
 
 
diz
16:08 / 24.07.03
I picked up 'Only Built 4 Cuban Linx' a few months ago and, well, I just don't really get what's so good about it.. the beats are pretty cool, but then they almost always are on Wu-Tang records, but Raekwon and Ghostface just completely fail to get me interested in all the stuff they're rhyming about - to me they just seem dull and self-indulgent whereas GZA and MethodMan's stuff is more vital and condensed and imaginative.

I've got a feeling I'm missing the point..


i felt that way about Only Built 4 Cuban Linx for a while, too. it took a few listens to really start feeling it. it finally hit me when i went on a Wu-Tang bender on a long drive a few months ago (San Francisco to San Diego) and i listened to it while i was the only one awake in the car, right after Enter the Wu-Tang. somewhere around track 4, it just hit me just how fucking tight it was. Raekwon's delivery is so sharp it's unbelieveable, and the production is just perfect.

i can't put my finger on why, i just know that one moment i was just kind of listening, and then i was floored by it. ~shrug~
 
 
Mystery Gypt
06:13 / 25.07.03
the word i heard about meth was that he recently said he wouldn't do another wu record until the other guys got their shit together... he complained that wu hadn't had a hit since C.R.E.A.M.; he also said back in the day wu used to do things no one else had done, and now they are all trying to sound like other people.

and remember that line he had somewhere on the W where he says "i got 8 wives and they all won't listen." he's been grumpy about the rest of the crew for years.
 
  

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