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Scandalous ideas for tomorrow's barbelith

 
  

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Persephone
11:54 / 11.02.02
But ah, Haus, I was lampooning the earnest response of the concerned grammarian whose heart bleeds to see people abused for using language correctly enough!

Well no, I wasn't. You got me.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
12:29 / 11.02.02
I had a lampoon once, but it got sick and the vet put it down.

In the fatal sense, you understand.

I can still see its little face staring up at me from the medical blender...

Ah, happy days.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
12:57 / 11.02.02
I like the sound of these new policies. One more.

New members, before they are allowed to post on the board, should be set an assignment by one of the Supercollective Clique (members who've notched up a total of 1,000 posts and live in London. And who even remember when Louisemichel posted here, ferchristsakes. I'm talking old skool, l33t, DUDE.

The assignments would range from explorations of the works of the great Greek philosophers, through discussions on the place of mtf pornography in the Catholic church, to the lyrics of Mark E. Smith. They would then be posted on-site for all members to vote on whether the new member gets posting status or not.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
13:05 / 11.02.02
But he's a girl!
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
13:13 / 11.02.02
Re: r, u, &c: Can I still say "tho'" when I'm posting directly to the board (rather than doing a cut'n'paste from a WP package where I can throw myself upon the mercy of the spellchecker)? It's either tho', thru, and coz, or thouhguh, thruoghug and becuos- no, baecuas- no, beacuauasea- oh, fukkit.
 
 
Sax
13:39 / 11.02.02
Has the font on Barbelith just changed, or is it me?
 
 
Tom Coates
14:41 / 11.02.02
I believe you have changed and the font on barbelith has remained the same. But who is to say that the font and I did not change in parallel and that you remained the same. Each is equally plausible.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
14:51 / 11.02.02
I suppose it's also possible that everything Sax remembers has been altered, and the rest of the world remains the same.

Sax - if you find that your keys are in the other pocket or you're half an inch taller than you were or anything, do let us know.
 
 
Not Here Still
16:28 / 11.02.02
Originally posted by Sax:

And there will be a lifetime ban for people who misuse apostrophes.

One of your best idea's yet.
 
 
w1rebaby
20:35 / 11.02.02
I assumed (i) and (ii) were jokes.

(iii), which is theoretically enforceable and people were taking seriously, is a bad idea. Someone comes here, reads a thread, thinks "wow! what an interesting community of people! I really feel I could learn from debate here!", tries to post... and can't. Quickly they switch to thinking "what a bunch of cliquey wankers".

Boards just aren't sticky unless they're instantly interactive. Nobody should rate themselves so highly that they think people need a certain amount of time and reflection to properly appreciate their thoughts.

[ 11-02-2002: Message edited by: w1rebaby ]
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
20:40 / 11.02.02
quote:Originally posted by w1rebaby:
Nobody should rate themselves so highly that they think people need a certain amount of time and reflection to properly appreciate their thoughts.


It's not about "rating oneself highly" - it's about *wanting* the site to be a place where people take time to reflect on something before replying. Jesus, you make it sound like it's a bad thing to strive for...

Anyway, I don't rate myself all that highly, but I certainly think there are plenty of people who post stuff here that demands time and reflection to appreciate it (seriously, don't you?). More people taking the time to do so can only improve the quality of debate here.
 
 
w1rebaby
20:46 / 11.02.02
Sometimes, yes, some of the Head Shop stuff takes a lot of re-reading. On the other hand, there are areas (particularly in, say, Switchboard) where someone could very well appreciate the whole argument very quickly.

Besides, what about new threads? With one or two posts? Why should you have to wait before replying to those?

The worst that can happen if there's no waiting period is that someone dives in, makes a dumb point or one someone else has made, and gets ignored. That doesn't harm anyone.
 
 
lentil
09:05 / 12.02.02
Speaking as someone who started posting soon after registering (although I had been aware of and occasionally read Barbelith) I am of the opinion that an enforced wait before posting could very well be a good thing, to allow a new member the time to get the rhythms of communication on the board, the history leading up to current discussions and relationships as much as content. I reckon my 'debut' posts would have been different if i'd done that.........but it's not something i feel strongly about.
recent suggestions are excellent. could we introduce a jane austen element and have prospective posters fussed over by an older member in a neurotic matriarch role before entering 'society'?
 
 
Tom Coates
09:05 / 12.02.02
I think we have now built in a 24 hour period between registration and first post. I've taken the cue for this from Metafilter, which requires you to have posted two or three replies and waited 24 hours before you can start a thread.

The effect has been to stop people who are attempting to spam a site they're not familiar with and casual trouble-makers, who are impatient for immediate gratification.

My basic principle for Barbelith at the moment is that we don't actually need many more people to keep the community going at a reasonable rate - nor in fact would a rapid influx of dozens of new people actually contribute substantially to the feel of the board. Which is one of the reasons I'm very keen on the one-month moritorium on new members that will be imposed when the board gets its head upgraded.

I think the essence of what barbelith is about should re-emerge during this period, and I think it's only right that regular posters should help define this feeling.

I was of course joking about the IQ tests, although it is worth thinking about what would happen if this place got suddenly over-whelmingly popular. The new site architecture will be considerably less server-impactful than the Infopop software and so bandwidth isn't going to be AS big a deal. But having said that it's always still going to be an issue.

More importantly, is there going to be an optimum size for the community? I personally don't like Slashdot because I think the community is too big. Even Metafilter is too large for my tastes - there are too many people for people to be able to actually get to know one another and inter-relate.

So in fact it might be a good time (and over the next month) to start thinking about what number of posters we want to be able to house here, what should be the optimal size of the community and how we should handle new memberships after a while. A lot of unpopular, but practical ideas leap to mind - including making membership invitation only for new people (whether organised centrally or through the mutual invitation of a certain number of people on the board). I'm sure these ideas will be offensive to many, but I'm just trying to think ahead.

Finally, I *am* thinking about inviting some people to join the board - some of whom I know, some of whom I don't - because I think they are especially good at what they do or because I think they would get off on some of the discussion here. I think it would be interesting to drop Naomi Klein in here as a member, and Douglas Rushkoff and see whether they played on their 'celebrity' or whether they could exist here AS celebrities without getting special treatment abuse. Even if it was for a relatively short period of time....
 
 
Trijhaos
09:05 / 12.02.02
Instead of making membership invitation only, what if an exisiting board member "sponsors" a new member? Sort of the way a lot of other groups work. The "sponsor" could petition for the new person's membership or something to that affect.
 
 
Sax
09:05 / 12.02.02
quote:Originally posted by Nick:
Sax - if you find that your keys are in the other pocket or you're half an inch taller than you were or anything, do let us know.


Strangely, my keys are half an inch longer and I now "dress" on the other side... maybe something strange is happening.

quote:Originally posted by w1rebaby:
Boards just aren't sticky unless they're instantly interactive.


My board is only sticky when I read Ariadne's posts.

Ah. I see what you mean, now.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
09:05 / 12.02.02
I think it's important that IF celebrity-figures are invited to the board, that they're called something else and then "unveiled" or something at some time in the future. A suit called "DouglasRushkoff" probably would get treated the same as someone who signs up as "GrantMorrison" - not exactly taken that seriously...
 
 
Sax
09:05 / 12.02.02
When Grant Morrison did post here briefly, Tom did establish in a post that he was the real deal and not just some twat.
 
 
A
12:06 / 12.02.02
...just pre-empting anyone cracking a gag like "but the real deal IS just some twat"...

carry on.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
12:23 / 12.02.02
That's what I mean: have Tom flag the person as The Real Deal at some point - either at the outset, or later on.

If you could get Alan Moore posting as "Fatbeard", though, that would be utterly genius.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:24 / 12.02.02
God, if we are going to have Naomi Klein round for tea in The Switchboard, give me plenty of notice so I can spring clean the place first, eh?
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
15:19 / 12.02.02
And now he's making hair jokes. Maybe I will have to kill him. Fuckwit.

I have a beautiful idea. A Barbelith 'TWART' cap. This would involve someone nominating a poster as a complete and utter 'TWART'. A group of moderators could then investigate this person's posts and determine whether he deserved the 'honour'. If so, they would email Tom, who could force a ficsuit name change for a week to... you guessed it... 'TWART'. Thus displaying to everyone the fact that he he had been diagnosed to have behaved in an offensive/insensitive/ignorant 'TWART'-like manner, and possibly forcing a rethink on the part of our hapless friend.

<evil glee>
 
 
Ethan Hawke
18:08 / 12.02.02
That's an excellent idea, Jack, and could even extend to other honorifics like "Know-it-all," "Snugglebunch," and "Captain Obvious."
 
 
Rage
12:22 / 14.02.02
I think that everyone should have to prove that they're psychic here. Tom should change everyones password, and they should have to use their Invisibility and High Level ESP Skills to figure it out. Or they can just do the password hacking thing, which would show their extreme dedication to the Cyber Revolution that makes up the US in USA.

I also think that the 100-120 IQ range is much too low, and should be changed to 120-200.

Another idea is that in order to register, you must come with with 10 new synonyms for the word "sheep", and send in either A. an MP3 of your band B. a piece of your artwork C. a piece of your writing. The song, picture, or story will be judged by a panal of 11 barbelith regulars on a scale of 1-10. An average above 6.5 constitues registration acceptance.

I also like the idea of being required to engage in a mock debate with Jack Fear or Haus or Ganesh or whoever, arguing the side of the issue that is choosen for them. If the user provides rational arguements that are upper mediumly to extremely fucking thought provoking, uses the word "meme" at least twice, and makes a reference to The Invisibles and The Illuminatus Trilogy at least once (which must be ironically and cynically related to the issue being debated while supporting their side of the argumet)... they get to register.

On a more serious note, why don't we email Douglas Rushkoff and tell him to come over here? I talked to him for a few minutes through email. He usually responds to the people who email him. I think he'd feel quite at home here.
 
 
Rev. Jesse
17:15 / 14.02.02
I'd like to see a better search function. I recently tried to search for postings by member 52 on the Magick and I was disappointed that I was unable to further limit my searches by date or resorting them so I see the newest (or the oldest) posts 1st, or by the age the thread, not the age of the post, or by referecing the number of times the member posted in a thread.

Better search functality.

Oh and how about being able to personalize the dates we see so that those of us who are more used to the MM/DD/YY format can more easily navigate the forum. Pretty minor, yeah, but why the hell not?

I also LOVE the idea of an IQ test.

-Jesse

[ 14-02-2002: Message edited by: Rev. Jesse ]
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:21 / 14.02.02
I like the idea of "celebs" here existing as "normal people", even if only for the experimental value.
I LOVE the "twart" idea, although I think there should be various titles bestowed on suits IN ADDITION to their name, so everyone else can remember who they are. Maybe five or six different titles- "twart", "captain incomprehensible", "pisshead" and "warning-possible lizard" for example.
(Only half-joking.)
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
21:31 / 14.02.02
Oh, oh, oh, I want the lizard hat. MEMEMEME!

Oh, okay, be like that, mammal scum.

I'm not sure I want anonymous celebs here...potential for embarrassment is HUGE. I mea imagine:

"I think Giddens' work has really dropped off since he became the lackey of Tony Blair's running dog 51st state, don't you?"

"Er..."

"Oh, God, you're him, aren't you? Look, it was hyperbole, it was just an example, I mean, you probably, er..."

etc.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:29 / 15.02.02
Indeed - and surely one of the arguments for inviting "celebrities" (for want of a better term) is that it might encourage people to raise the level of debate a little. Hopefully people would feel compelled to go into a little more thoughtful detail about why they didn't like No Logo or the latest issue of New X-Men if they suspect the author may be reading...
 
 
Mr Ed
10:51 / 15.02.02
quote:Originally posted by autopilot disengaged:
if Barbelith resorts to IQ testing...

i'm leaving.


Yup. I like 'lith because it's knowing enough NOT to be Pseuds corner, not everyone here reads the Guardian, and there isn't that much 'sneering-I'm-so-much-smarter-than-THAT-numpty-ness'.

Also not really a fan of Naomi Klein. Read No Logo, checked some facts, agreed with a fair few points, forgot about it.

Stick the board on the top of the Nav, it's why people come here, turn the Zine into something more like a blog, with big features and few people doing the editorial (like the countless other webzines), build an easy-to-load-up-gifs-and-stuff format into another section so people can do Tarot cards and the like.

(OK, none of these ideas are scandalous, how about we ban anyone who isn't a pinko-communist-nimby-student? )

Also, 'Lith is hard to get into. Why?
 
 
Tom Coates
12:28 / 15.02.02
quote:Yup. I like 'lith because it's knowing enough NOT to be Pseuds corner, not everyone here reads the Guardian, and there isn't that much 'sneering-I'm-so-much-smarter-than-THAT-numpty-ness'.

Also not really a fan of Naomi Klein. Read No Logo, checked some facts, agreed with a fair few points, forgot about it.

Stick the board on the top of the Nav, it's why people come here, turn the Zine into something more like a blog, with big features and few people doing the editorial (like the countless other webzines), build an easy-to-load-up-gifs-and-stuff format into another section so people can do Tarot cards and the like.

(OK, none of these ideas are scandalous, how about we ban anyone who isn't a pinko-communist-nimby-student? )

Also, 'Lith is hard to get into. Why?


Oooh. Loads of quesitons and suggestions.

As to the lith becoming pseuds corner. My feeling is that an appropriate form of behaviour on the board would be the treatment of someone as an individual no matter who they were.

But it's also useful to know who someone is. I'd love to have a conversation with Douglas Rushkoff here, for example, about things that related to his work and which I was interested in - and I'd like to KNOW it was him, so that I could follow up on points he'd made outside of the board in one of his books. But I'd not be interested in sitting around watching as thirty people fellated him and tried to get him to sign their copies of "Cyberia". That's not the point at all.

There are several reasons why barbelith is hard to get into at the moment.

1) The new limits on posting will stop people writing excessive crap for the first month of the board. This might even continue longer if everyone thinks it makes the board a better place to be... Or it might be turned off within two weeks if it's a complete disaster. Either way, we can't allow people to just make another suit when they want to post more... Completely misses the point of the exercise.

2) One of them is that if we are moving towards a more egalitarian software which allows voting and individuals relying on one another, then we have to make sure that people don't have multiple suits. For example - in the medium term you'll be able to put yourself up for a moderator role and then be elected for that role by other members of the board. Obviously we can't have people signing in as twenty different people and voting for themselves...

3) How big does a community have to be to work effectively? If we had four thousand members would the conversation be better or worse? Conversation may not be ideal at the moment, but at least it's a manageable size for a community of people. I'm uncomfortable about the idea that we let the world set up camp here and make the site less and less interesting.


I think you've made some really good points about the webzine - I'm going to talk to people about this in greater depth, but I think the webzine may soon sit behind the board as the less important part - with an end to eventually being incorporated within the board structure...
 
 
Spatula Clarke
12:41 / 15.02.02
I really don't think that what you're worried about would be a problem here, Nick. The place isn't exactly short of people who aren't scared of speaking their mind.

Grant M's SO: Please come and have a look at our new website and feel free to make any suggestions about how it could be improved.

Barbelith: Well, you could get rid of that fucking horrible colour scheme for a start. How the hell are you supposed to read any of the text?

Grant M's SO: <silence>
 
 
Rage
13:46 / 16.02.02
I emailed Douglas Rushkoff. He said that he was swamped with writing and email, but that he might check this place out in a couple of weeks.

Doesn't sound very promisng, but still.
 
 
Tom Coates
14:04 / 12.03.02
Any more thoughts on board improval while there's still time?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
14:13 / 12.03.02
quote:Originally posted by Tom Coates:
SUGGESTION: Barbelith Citizenship tests like you require for Swiss or American citizenship.


Would we have to make fondue?

Okay: I think it would be great if we had the "today's active topics" link on every page. Also, how about a random thread link at the top of the page? This might help to encourage people to dip into a wider range of forums (fora?). FAQs for each forum would also be a good idea, with a short selection of links/resources that newbies could refer to.

And can we please, please, please, have an ignore button?
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
14:17 / 12.03.02
Tom, I'm really confused on one thing: will we still be able to change our screen names?

If not, I'd really like to know in advance before a switch over, as to not get stuck with a "Flux = ____" that I would not want to keep...
 
  

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