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Scandalous ideas for tomorrow's barbelith

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11:06 / 10.02.02

1) Not everyone should be able to sign up to the board....
- is it in our best interests to have thousands of people on the site? Or would that make conversation very difficutl?

SUGGESTION: Barbelith Citizenship tests like you require for Swiss or American citizenship. This could consist of:

i) A brief cursory IQ test which can only be taken ONCE per e-mail address. A score of 100-120 required for entry.
ii) A barbelith test - 50% required, including questions like "Who wrote 'No Logo'?"
iii) An extended time between starting to READ the site and being able to post upon it.

2) Inviting experts.

Some exceptions to the above rule. When the relaunch happens, open up the board to recognised experts in their fields. Start off with Douglas Rushkoff and Grant Morrison and see what happens from there.

3) Shut down the webzine temporarily until we can incorporate it into the rest of the site more effectively...

THOUGHTS?!

11:14 / 10.02.02

love the idea of "guest speakers" and think the site as a whole would benefit --

Interested by the quiz side but less keen about its threat to inclusiveness-- up till now levels of participation have been entirely self selected and i would hate to see that changed by enforcement

could we get the old barbelith running alongside the new ?

11:15 / 10.02.02

As for the webzine - isn't it already effectively shut down, especially since no new articles have been added in what seems like ages?

11:16 / 10.02.02

Well yes maybe, but I don't really see the point...

Anyway - these are like way -out suggestions rather than actual things to do.

Although I am getting a certain evil pleasure from IQ testing...

Regrettable Juvenilia

11:29 / 10.02.02

Thought for the day:

quote: So the modern Tong cannot be elitist--but there's no reason it can't be choosy. Many non-authoritarian organizations have foundered on the dubious principle of open membership, which frequently leads to a preponderance of assholes, yahoos, spoilers, whining neurotics, & police agents. If a Tong is organized around a special interest (especially an illegal or risky or marginal interest) it certainly has the right to compose itself according to the "affinity group" principle.

- Hakim Bey

Though personally, I'm not really in favour of testing, but I do think that we could do with a proper FAQ (one was once devised, dunno if anyone still has a copy) that people had to read before joining, in order to prevent further "what's wrong with being sexy?" incidents.

13:11 / 10.02.02

By Tom Coates: quote:Although I am getting a certain evil pleasure from IQ testing... p

I don`t think that would be helpful. There are trolls with a high IQ level, as well as there are engaging, comitted, and FUN people whose scores wouldn`t match their actual contributions to the board in a non intellectual level.

I`m saynig this more out of fear that, like me, non-English speakers may be handicapped in a cold IQ test. Actually this sort of test makes me think more of chimps being tested for space programs than this sort of libertarian, free-spirited discussion board.

Don't know... just felt all 1984-ey.
And would like to say that, honestly, the person who I was when I arrived here has changed a lot, thanks to this board.

(One look at my first post will prove it - I hope

). I have had misconceptions and prejudices analized and refuted, I have become more tolerant and open to others' people viwpoints (except Flyboy`s

. That`s no small benefit.

So, yeah, I was a stupid troll when I first came here, and thanks to some ass kicking I surely deserved I started learning a little bit more about being in other peoples` shoes, and I hope to be improving.

If Barbelith starts with this sort of testing, this sort of questionnaires or FAQs, it probably would help sanitizing the board to a certain extent, but would also prevent wonderful changes to happen in certain people`s minds, in what concerns sexual and political issues - just to start.
Again, I think that it`s no small benefit.

The Sinister Haiku Bureau

13:29 / 10.02.02

As far as the testing goes: how would we prevent cheating? Don't most IQ tests require a) only one person doing it b) a time limit c) no pencils, paper, calculators or net access? And for the barbelith quiz, the help/research issue also applies. I reckon anybody, given enough time and resources could get full marks on both tests, thereby rendering them more or less meaningless. And that's ignoring the whole 'is-this-elitist' issue, which, to be honest I'm somewhat uneasy about...

But the guest posters thing would be pretty cool...and the faq thing.

autopilot disengaged

13:45 / 10.02.02

if Barbelith resorts to IQ testing...

i'm leaving.

13:51 / 10.02.02

IQ tests dont necessarily tell you anything, really. they certainly dont dictate whether a person is able to put together a logical, reasonable, and coherent point, nor if they are able to manage being a productive member

13:54 / 10.02.02

What M de J said pretty much. IQ tests just smack of 'getting into a decent school'. ("I say, our daughter's trying for Barbelith don't you know. It's a simply soopah institution, it's where all the best posters post.")

It's just not our style, IMHO.

Matthew Fluxington

14:04 / 10.02.02

I think 'guest speakers' is a brilliant idea, and I can help get some if you like - I know that it wouldn't be hard for me to persuade some professors from NYU and the New School to lecture about a good range of topics. For example, maybe in the music forum I could get a former professor of mine who is an expert on free jazz to come in and moderate a featured guest thread on that topic. Or another professor whom I know who is an anthropologist, and has been studying the historical links between Chris Ware's work and ephemera from the late 19th/early 20th century. Or another professor whom I know who is an expert on Chinese foriegn policy.

However, I think the "IQ" testing is a very corrupt move, and I think it would reflect upon this community very poorly.

14:24 / 10.02.02

guests - yeah! good one.

testing? this has to be a wind up. as it is, i have serious 'i am not learned enough to be here' issues. i'm not stupid but i reckon i'd fail the kind of test(s) suggested. oiks can bring something to barbelith too, you know.....

14:30 / 10.02.02

Everybody seems hung up on the IQ tests and seems to have forgotten the third option which was a period of time between reading and posting. Of course, don't people already do that? I know when I first found this place I lurked for awhile instead of jumping right in and possibly making an ass of myself.

14:58 / 10.02.02

Tom's just teasin', folks!

15:01 / 10.02.02

well i was hoping so! my lack of education is an easy button to push.....

should i be putting some smilies here?

15:51 / 10.02.02

Taking this seriously -

i) A brief cursory IQ test which can only be taken ONCE per e-mail address. A score of 100-120 required for entry.

ii) A barbelith test - 50% required, including questions like "Who wrote 'No Logo'?"

iii) An extended time between starting to READ the site and being able to post upon it.

(iii) is what I'm most comfortable with here, but as has been pointed out, this often happens anyway...

(i) is Very dodgy, if you aks me - but (ii) worries me even more.

Surely that idea means we are setting a very definite limit on the kind of people we want here - but knowing who wrote the latest cool political book does not necessarily make you a 'worthwhile' poster.

And where do we stop, start, and who defines the questions?

Don't like that idea at all, sorry.

Also, doesn't this idea:

When the relaunch happens, open up the board to recognised experts in their fields. Start off with Douglas Rushkoff and Grant Morrison and see what happens from there.

go against this question:

is it in our best interests to have thousands of people on the site?

Because bringing in experts, or celebrities, is going to increase traffic to the site, taking the Underground Overground, as it were...

3) Shut down the webzine temporarily until we can incorporate it into the rest of the site more effectively...

Well I read it - when it's updated, that is. I'd like to see more happen on it, though I haven't written for it. Perhaps I should, if it doesn't die...

[ 10-02-2002: Message edited by: Not Me Again ]

16:20 / 10.02.02

Think about it. Are there really 1520 members on this board? Sure 1520 have registered, but most of them posted 1 message, and then disappeared. There's a relatively small number of people who consistantly post on the board, I've noticed. I like the idea of getting guest speakers here. Let's say just for example Grant Morrison agrees to host a thread and 150 new members register to interact with
their "favoritest" writer. How many of those people will then stay and post after he's left? Maybe a handful.

I've just had a few minutes to think and if guest hosts are added, please add an IQ test. I shudder to think about a thread filled with fanboys.

[ 10-02-2002: Message edited by: Trijhaos ]

autopilot disengaged

16:30 / 10.02.02

could a mail maybe go out to all the suit addresses explaining what's happening and informing the user that, if they don't confirm within a month, their suit will be scythed?

ps: feeling stoopid and melodramatic, if the IQ thing was a joke, but stand by what i said if it's not.

17:01 / 10.02.02

I'm also in the iii) sounds best, i) and ii) I don't like camp.

I'd love to see the webzine take off so I'd rather see more people encouraged to write than to shut it down.

I'm lukewarm on the experts idea but I'd be interested to see how it flies.

18:20 / 10.02.02

(i) I don't like at all. IQ tests measure a certain type of linear, mathematical thinking. the ESL issue is another thing, as well as the fact that the structure of IQ tests assumes a certain body of knowledge that is largely constrained to a Westernized education system.

(ii) I like even less. There are a lot of things on this board I know nothing about, particularly in the realms of "subaltern" knowledge that circulate as a result of the "Invisibles" connection of the board. I don't know who wrote "No Logo," nor have I read it. This doesn't mean I'm a troll or have nothing to contribute.
And the things I do know--history, archaeology, anthropology, chemistry, religion--provide both questions and answers within the thread that perhaps someone else wouldn't. And the same goes for everyone else's experiences.

I mean, how would you decide to assemble this test? What would go on it? Is it fair to demand knowledge of specific regions of thought, and more importantly, will it create the kind of intellectual environment that you want?
Trust me, you don't want a mass of dittoheads. If I wanted a mass of dittoheads, I'd go to the Spartacist Society on campus instead of posting here.

this is a bit far-fetched, but is there any feasibility to some sort of "debuting" for new members...a trial period, an open interview...seems like these might resolve some the issues of testing, examining not just general knowledge but also communication skills, wit, etc.

[ 10-02-2002: Message edited by: [infinite spectral monkeys] ]

18:22 / 10.02.02

or even a document more like a college application than an IQ test...
you know, essay-type questions...still no ideas about actual subject matter for the former, though.

The Damned Yankee

20:13 / 10.02.02

So if we aren't going with testing, are we keeping the monkey?

Er, I meant lemur...

20:30 / 10.02.02

did I mention I'm a monkey from the South?
[by way of Russia, but, as Kipling would say, that's another story...]
...you're doubly in for it, Damned Yankee.
//putting down the mint julep, getting off rocking chair on the porch and getting my shotgun...//

To clarify my idea: this is a sincere discussion about developing some sort of vetting process for potential members.
I simply wish to raise the question of what traits do we really want to select against?.

09:17 / 11.02.02

So you're asking about traits we don't want to see in new members? The only trait I can think of being against is the one that causes people to use 'u' instead of "you", 'r' instead of "are", and so on. It doesn't make any sense to do that. The only thing it does it make the person doing it seem like a moronic hairless ape with the typing skills of a blind dyslexic zebra. Of course, I really haven't seen anybody do that on this board, which I'm thankful for.

I think instead of tests and the like, new users could be given a trial run, where they have limited posting privilages until they hit a certain number of posts or the like. They used to do that on an old bbs I used to go to before I even knew what the internet was.

09:41 / 11.02.02

Aw. I wish I could take the piss once a year and get away with it. I know I tend to write grumpy sober things, but I did NAME this thread 'scandalous' ideas....

09:47 / 11.02.02

face it tom, you're just not outragous enough... now if you were molesting the amish...

[ 11-02-2002: Message edited by: sleazenation ]

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

09:51 / 11.02.02

quote:Originally posted by Tom Coates:
Aw. I wish I could take the piss once a year and get away with it.

Uh, I thought it was pretty obvious too. Do I win a prize? I think you just got everyone all riled up... you big fascist, you.

09:56 / 11.02.02

Everybody was getting all riled up about it so I was just playing along because..I...I just want to belong. *sniff*

Jack The Bodiless

09:56 / 11.02.02

<ruffles Trijaos' hair> Ahhh... you cheeky monkey, you.

The best way to discourage square bananas on the board, with the constant posting on rubbish/spamming/etc is the waiting time between registration and the ability to post. It's a great idea, IMRabidlyFascisticO - allows people to check the board out, decide whether to stay, decide how they want to present themselves, etc... should also deter the foolish ones who, on a bored evening, create four or five additional suits and immediately start fluffing the board (heh)... meaning Ganesh will have no further outlet for his other personalities other than petty crime and the like...

And I think your name on the new board should be PretzalCoatal. So there.

Haus about we all give each other a big lovely huggle?

09:56 / 11.02.02

quote:Originally posted by Trijhaos:
Of course, I really haven't seen anybody do that on this board, which I'm thankful for.

"For which I am thankful".

You. Fucking. PRIMATE.

Huggles!

[ 11-02-2002: Message edited by: The Haus of Deletia ]

The Damned Yankee

10:01 / 11.02.02

Actually, Monkey, I was referring to Knowledge (Tom called him Barbelith's monkey, and you took exception and stated that he was actually a lemur... remember?).

But hey, as long as alcohol and guns are involved . . .

(Sets aside his MGD and draws twin 9mm Berettas.)

Cool.

10:11 / 11.02.02

I think Tom's suggestions are great. We should also force people to post photographs of themselves to see if they are basically attractive enough to be allowed fully-fledged membership. And existing members who don't measure up must be forced to lose weight, have haircuts, shave, and buy lots and lots of designer gear.

And every new member must send their 10 most valuable/cherished comic books to Tom, who will ritually burn them and piss on the ashes in a live webcast.

And everyone has to be forced to sit, A Clockwork Orange-style, through every single episode of Benny Hill and all the Carry On movies until they are so desensitised to slightly off-colour but harmless gags that they don't erupt into cascading fury if called "love" or some other perceived-to-be-derogatory term by another poster.

And people will be fined every time they refer to journalists and the media as "fascist liars who just make up every single thing in the newspapers and television to earn money for their right-wing paymasters who control the news and force people not quite as clever as me into doing and thinking what they are told to."

And there will be a lifetime ban for people who misuse apostrophes.

10:24 / 11.02.02

All great ideas Sax, which I think I shall implement immediately.

11:39 / 11.02.02

quote:Originally posted by Trijhaos:
which I'm thankful for.

quote:Originally posted by Haus:
"For which I'm thankful."

"It was John Dryden who first promulgated the doctrine that a preposition may not be used at the end of a sentence, probably on the basis of a specious analogy to Latin. Grammarians in the 18th century refined the doctrine, and the rule has since become one of the most venerated maxims of schoolroom grammar. But sentences ending with prepositions can be found in the works of most of the great writers since the Renaissance. English syntax does allow for the final placement of the preposition, as in We have much to be thankful for or I asked her which course she had signed up for. Efforts to rewrite such sentences to place the preposition elsewhere can have stilted and even comical results, as Winston Churchill demonstrated when he objected to the doctrine by saying 'This is the sort of English up with which I cannot put.' "

How's that for a scandalous idea?

Haus about we all give each other a big lovely huggle?

11:47 / 11.02.02

Yes, Persephone. I was lampooning the idea of the grammatical troll in order to reflect the arbitrary nature of a line drawn at a particular level of formality and everythig to one side of it being declared not fit for Barbelith.

With hilarious consequences.

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