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Rave on

  
  

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Jamieon
13:57 / 09.07.01
Just wondering how many people here actually go raving/clubbing (Alright, "raving" is a pretty outmoded term here in the UK, but, as far as I'm aware, Americans still use it [I think], and there are loads of Americans on this board).

And, when I say "club", I mean "dance club" - you know, the sort of place where everyone loads themselves up on drugs, makes for the podium and loses themself in a massive, heaving dancefuck.

I've been to indie clubs, but they never seem to reach the same heights of hedonism, excess and all out lostitness....

People always seem to want to talk and stuff.

I only ask, not to be "superior" or condescending or to provoke debate about what kind of clubs are better, but because club/rave culture has defined popular music and half the countries recreation time for the past 10 years; and I'm kind of shocked that, whilst being very musically savvy, most people on Barbelith give me the impression it's passed them by.

Am I just wrong?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:11 / 09.07.01
It's a very interesting question.

The impression I get is that there are quite a few people here who do go clubbing, and like it a lot when they do, but still don't do it very often. Why is that, I wonder? And then there's a smaller group who go all the time, but I guess feel that they don't have that many people to talk to about it here...

I definitely feel slightly envious of the American rave scene (and this may extend to Australia and the 'doof' culture as well) - but I suspect I may just be romanticising a slightly alien culture, again.
 
 
ynh
17:33 / 14.07.01
I think I'm just getting old. I spent the early nineties raving my ass off. Then I went back to college. And now I live in a place where 75% of the acts I want to see come through and I spend my money going to see them. I've gotten very fond of sitting on the grass at folk festivals or amping up my hedonism at Ostrich Farm parties or Beltane celebrations.

Not too many folks I know use rave anymore, like it's tainted or the scene is dead. The unifying elements are mostly gone on the East Coast, having frangmented back into Goth, Club, Drug, &c. scenes, with not much good feeling between them (though they seem to be the same goddamn kinds of people.)
 
 
uncle retrospective
20:27 / 14.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Jamieon:
I'm kind of shocked that, whilst being very musically savvy, most people on Barbelith give me the impression it's passed them by.

Am I just wrong?

Maybe it's a kind of snobbery but from what I can see the kind of people in the Comic/SF area tend to come from (on the music side) indie/metal sort of background.
Dance music was always just laughed at in the groups I hung round with, it was just considered crap, tosser music with no soul (man).

I was wrong.

I only got into the clubbing thing around christmas, I just decided tere was a lot of fun out there I wasn't having. So out with the Shoe gazing in with the techno.
I don't regret a thing (apart from learning the the Fear really is).

There just is nothing better than what your calling "dancefuck" for a night out.
 
 
mondo a-go-go
16:48 / 15.07.01
bollocks. some of us here regularly make it to mass in brixton, which never seems to have a regular club night, so you never know what you're gonna get. except messy...

i love clubbing. i'll dance to anything, pretty much. i don't much like the posiness you get at some clubs, and i detest places where people are more concerned with how they look than anything else. unfortunately, the clubs with the most interesting/eclectic playlists are usually the ones that attract the poseurs...

which is why we always go to mass instead...
 
 
Red Cross Iodized Salt
01:26 / 16.07.01
I spent an awful lot of time dancing to house and techno in dingy nightclubs (and the occasional warehouse and field) in my late teens / early twenties. I started to get into the hardcore stuff that was coming out of the UK in 90 / 91 through a friends older brother, but only truly became obsessed with electronic music and clubbing when I picked up a copy of Aphex Twin's 'didgeridoo' a year or so later and then saw Andy Weatherall and Billy Nasty DJing over the space of two weekends (I suppose I should admit that little white pills might also have been a factor).

As a result of having formative years like these, I don't really consider a venue that doesn't play dance music (by which I primarily mean house, techno or electro - but also garage, disco, hip-hop or drum+bass) to be a ‘proper’ club. In my mind it's more like a bar that's open extra late and has a better jukebox. These days, however, I just feel too damn old to go out and loose it on the dancefloor as regularly as I used to – so a late opening bar with good music is often exactly what I want out of an evening.

Oh and Zen / Flyboy - I wouldn't be too envious of the current US rave scene if I were you. While it sounds like it was really interesting a couple of years back, these days it consists largely of 17 year olds in unfeasibly large pants waving glowsticks and taking way too many drugs. I went to one event last year and about 50% of the crowd there were too fucked up to stand, let alone dance. Just lying in groups on the floor giving each other massages and sticking bottles of Vicks in their faces. Worst of all, Pauls Oakenfold and Van Dyk are worshipped as gods – while Derricks May and Carter are virtually unheard of.
 
 
the Fool
04:34 / 16.07.01
quote:Originally posted by De La Zenith is dead:
I definitely feel slightly envious of the American rave scene (and this may extend to Australia and the 'doof' culture as well) - but I suspect I may just be romanticising a slightly alien culture, again.

For someone who has done the whole Australian rave thing, quite thoroughly, I can say that it pinacled about 2-3 years ago, and has gone downhill since. Melbourne raves used to be better than europe, I did personal research on the subject and found a Melbourne rave rocked harder that Berlin, Rome, Amsterdam and (what I thought would be mecca) London (or so I thought at the time).

Then I got back from Europe, and it had all changed. The 'scene' had almost tripled. Parties, became festivals. The music became much more 'genre' defined. Instead of a good rocking techno party, You had 'bush doofs' that only played psytrance (the boring UK version not the truly weird home grown variety), Warehouse parties that only played minimal techno or the harder end of tech-house, and clubs that catered to one particular genre only (house, nu-NRG, progressive trance [gak!] etc.). The special vibe on Melbourne raves slowly vanished, replaced by increasingly commercial large scale events with 'big name' international acts. Its just clubbing in a big empty shed, no vibe just lots of drugs.

A fragment is all that remains of Melbourne's once amazing underground party scene. That fragment is Freakazoid - Oasis of beauty, temple of joy, home of freedom. If you love your house, there isn't anywhere better to be.

Except maybe Earthcore (the ultimate in outdoor raves) but I haven't been to one of those in nearly 3 years, so I can't vouch for their quality anymore. They used to be one of the best parties on the planet...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
07:38 / 16.07.01
This all just seems to confirm my pet theory that if you ask about any rave scene, someone will tell you "it's gone downhill since a couple of years ago"...

Oh, and Monkey on a skateboard, isn't this -

quote:17 year olds in unfeasibly large pants waving glowsticks and taking way too many drugs.

- the very essence of club/rave culture?
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
12:47 / 16.07.01
no. club/rave culture is all about inter genre rivalry/pretentious genre spotting/intense snobbery.

and slowly we all totter out of the woodwork, zimmers at the ready.. Killah? Basic?

there are people around here who will obsess about dance music of various forms, and shaking their bits around to them...

and who've been hugely affected by 'rave' culture in the way you've described it (and if I was being pedantic, it's more like like 13/14 years if you're strictly talking acidhouse/techno... but who cares?)

Used to do the free party thing a lot and I still really love the whole thing of heading off into middle of nowhere with mates and soundsystem, dancing the night away and watching the sun come up...

Think the fact that people do this stuff for the love is just fantastic… so much work and money goes into providing a temporary free space for dancing and play, just bring yourself and enjoy…

but unfortunately the acid techno/trance stuff that seems to be a dominate these things bores me senseless…

disco free parties! yeahhh!

And think it’s particularly heroic doing it somewhere where the weather’s a constant lottery.

Don’t like the way that certain genres are really club-based….often ones I really like, sadly…

love to dance, as most people around here will be sick of hearing... don't do it nearly often enough, due to money/friends not being inclined etc but having a bit of resurgence...also having been to a few really good clubs recently, where the music and the people are really up for madness....

IMHO you can get that 'headfuck' atmosphere of totally losing it to pretty much any kind of music if the people/music/atmosphere and your own headstate etc gel, but the conditions around dance stuff (the people/drugs associated with/musical mood etc) are designed to produce this, especially if you're talking disco/house/techno/trance/drum 'n bass ...

I do find it happens a lot less with indie stuff but then indie isn't generally about hedonism ( or maybe cause indie kids just can't dance ) (ducks to avoid brickbats) . although again, this could be to do with my own headstate nowadays, as I have had some manic nights out at indie things…

BarbeRave anyone? (which I know would never get off the ground cause people would spend months arguing about which club was ‘acceptable’ . *sigh*.)

[ 16-07-2001: Message edited by: Lick my plums, bitch. ]
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
13:04 / 16.07.01
quote:Originally posted by better the Fool you know:
Except maybe Earthcore (the ultimate in outdoor raves) but I haven't been to one of those in nearly 3 years, so I can't vouch for their quality anymore. They used to be one of the best parties on the planet...
Someone I know played a set at one of those last year, in Melbourne - she seemed fairly ambivalent about it, though said she did have a good time.

I don't know how I feel about clubbing. Self-conscious, me. I've been a couple of times, and have really enjoyed it on occasion - but I really have to be in the right mood. Or off my head, which finances prohibit, mostly.

Oh, and my complete lack of dancin' ability probably has something to do with it, too...
 
 
deletia
13:35 / 16.07.01
As one who was a founder member of Shoom, I find the whole thing far too commercial these days. Then again, when I saw the Sex Pistols at the 100 Club I delivered a similar assessment. Plus ca change....
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:35 / 16.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Rothkoid:
Or off my head, which finances prohibit, mostly.

<evil pusherman>If you don't go clubbing much, then presumably you won't have a very high tolerance for E. In which case: £5, cheeky half, sorted. Bish bash bosh.</evil pusherman>

Course, not saying you'd want to do that, or that all the cool kids are, or anything... Just pointing out that economically, getting mashed is actually a lot better value for money than getting drunk.
 
 
ephemerat
14:07 / 16.07.01
The Flyboy speaks truth - chemicals are much more economical. Join us Rothkoid. Give in to the dark side. We accept you - one of us; we accept you - one of us.</PEER PRESSURE>

I've done the whole illegal raves, warehouse parties, squat parties, dance-off-your-tits thang and still go dance-clubbing when the opportunity presents itself (roughly once a month). However, my usual destinations are restricted to the indie/metal scene. Basically I crave social interaction and slurred (preferably flirtatious) conversation. And I've found that night after night of dancing under strobe lights in chemical bliss can begin to seem a little shallow and anaemic after a while.

Oh hang on, I still take E at Indie clubs and dance to ...Trail of Dead, the Pixies, Queens of the Stone Age or even Nick Cave or The Cure. It's Cosmetic Pharmacology, dude.
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
14:42 / 16.07.01
Fly's got a point, Rothkoid.

If your mighty constitution makes alcholic intoxication prohibitive, (and, assuming you're not a hardened drug fiend and therefore reasonably susceptible) a sneaky half (cost about £2.50 round these parts, cityboys) should do the trick for an entire nights' entertainment.

Ecstasy: the choice of a (dole scum) generation. I like it.

[Extra peer pressure]g'wan.....people who take pills are cool. all of us. much cooler than drinkers. always.

Except when we're drinking, of course...

[ 17-07-2001: Message edited by: Lick my plums, bitch. ]
 
 
Not Here Still
17:00 / 16.07.01
And if we're taking pills and drinking, watch our eyeballs roll into the back of our heads.

I think the reason haven't sat here and talked about going to Voodoo, or Atomic Jam, or Bugegd Out, is the same reason that I haven't really talked about going out to indie clubs - what do you say?

clubbing is actually a very personal experience and it's very often difficult to put into words without sounding like an idiot - especially if drugs are involved. The whole point about going clubbing for me was not having to use words to communicate - but that look you give someone when the bass kicks in, or the records mix just right, and so on.

The reason I haven't talked about techno artists like Derrick May, Juan Atkins, Ritchie Hawtin and all that is that a; it hasn't occurred to me before and b; how much can you say about music which is mainly instrumental?

Having said that, I've just started a thread about jazz...

Oh yeah, does anyone else love techno but hate happy hardcore and gabba? I've still got the fear whenever I hear old DJ Sy and Lenny Dee tapes
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
17:39 / 16.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Jamieon:



I only ask, not to be "superior" or condescending or to provoke debate about what kind of clubs are better, but because club/rave culture has defined popular music and half the countries recreation time for the past 10 years; and I'm kind of shocked that, whilst being very musically savvy, most people on Barbelith give me the impression it's passed them by.

Am I just wrong?

Well, it certainly has passed me by. I've never had much of an interest in it, honestly....I know loads of people who frequented Twilo et al for the past few years. I really like private parties, I've got to my fair share of them. In fact, I've thrown and DJed a few of them myself. and those were great...just a lot of people dancing in a loft all hours of the night.

I don't think I have a good frame of reference, but wouldn't something like that be a more honest expression than going to a place which throws parties for money and is full of security?

There was a feature length article about this topic in last week's Village Voice...
 
 
Red Cross Iodized Salt
20:49 / 16.07.01
quote:Originally posted by The Flyboy:

Isn't [large pants / glowsticks / vicks] very essence of club/rave culture?

I guess it is...but do you really want to spend an entire evening in the company of this guy? Brrrrr....



Oh, and Ms. Plums - this is basic's current monkeyfictionsuit.
 
 
ynh
20:49 / 16.07.01
No way. His backpack is way too small for starters, and it's not waterproof. What's with kids today?

quote:Originally posted by The Flyboy:
This all just seems to confirm my pet theory that if you ask about any rave scene, someone will tell you "it's gone downhill since a couple of years ago"...


Of course. Nothing is as cool as it used to be. Even the toy guns with the flashing lights and cool sounds were better several years ago. My god, I still have a pair with variable vibration speeds, 8 colored lights apiece, and 7 different sounds. And it's as if they were made for twirling.

Before I even got to your post, I was thinking it was me and not the scene.

Clontle: Are you thinking of the crackdown in Louisiana? It wasn't even a rave club per se, but they're being prosecuted via crackhouse laws because people were found to be on drugs and distributing on the premises. Bastards. It depends on where you are, whether the cops/security are "looking the other way."

Lick My Plums, Bitch: With the "you can do this with any [music]" idea, you reminded me of a guy in the Southwest US that was incorporating elements of the Catholic Mass into raves... everything sort of built up to a remixed extended liturgy (in latin.) According to eyewitness repots, the feeling of community (from singing along, together) was exactly what the kids were looking for. Insert just a little structure and you're there, apparently.

[ 16-07-2001: Message edited by: [Your Name Here] ]
 
 
Red Cross Iodized Salt
20:53 / 16.07.01
Fastest edit in the west...
 
 
ynh
20:56 / 16.07.01
East
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
09:09 / 17.07.01
Clontle: Are you thinking of the crackdown in Louisiana? It wasn't even a rave club per se, but they're being prosecuted via crackhouse laws because people were found to be on drugs and distributing on the premises. Bastards. It depends on where you are, whether the cops/security are "looking the other way."

Um, no...I was referring to this article,, not this one. I was talking about the security at any given nightclub in NYC, not anything as specific as what happened in Lousiana.

[ 17-07-2001: Message edited by: Clontle ]
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
09:13 / 17.07.01
that was v. speedy, boy. can you expand/more detail on this?

UK bods, fly, I@m thinking you might nkow this, who was that vicar who was doing rave sermons? chris something?

and monkeyboy: truly I am dim, shoulda spotted you a mile off. thought you'd pop up

and I quite like the rucksack, personally.

oh and as you know loads more than me about this, where is good for a rave scene in your opinion? I still really have yet to experience (for sustained periods anyway_ the novetly of outdoor parties somewhere with a decent climate.

typically british to perservere with them despite our shit summers. that Blitz spirit, i guess?

[ 17-07-2001: Message edited by: Lick my plums, bitch. ]
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:13 / 17.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Lick my plums, bitch.:
UK bods, fly, I@m thinking you might nkow this, who was that vicar who was doing rave sermons? chris something?

Chris Brain, the Sheffield Rave Vicar. He used to be in a Christian rock band with my parents, for what it's worth (answer: nowt). I'd find a link if it wasn't the wee small hours.
 
 
Red Cross Iodized Salt
09:13 / 17.07.01
I too would love to find good outdoor events, preferably organized by people doing it for love of the music, but I have no idea where there might be a really good free party scene anymore. I heard great things about Australian raves from friends that lived there over the last couple of years - but the Fool seems to have that covered.

After the Criminal Justice Act came in in the UK, a lot of the big soundsystems moved to the continent. Spiral Tribe were based in France for a while, and put on some amazing parties there (I only made it to one, but some mates from Luxembourg followed them around for a summer). That was a few years ago though, and I have no idea what they're up to now - maybe somewhere in Eastern Europe?

I expect there are still big free party scenes in Israel and parts of South East Asia - although the parties are most likely still Goa trance or hard acid techno oriented, neither of which I'd fall over myself to listen to for an entire evening.

I've been on the East-coast of the US for two years, but bar two experiences (neither of which I particularly enjoyed - see my previous comments) I really don't know too much about the rave scene. A lot of US ravers appear to be pretty anti-club, and (certainly in Boston) a lot of the clubs don't seem too interested in playing music that caters to anything but the drinking crowd. It could be that I'm just going to the wrong clubs, but I've yet to find any outside of New York that regularly play quality house and techno. This alone leads me to believe that there has to be some decent non-commercial events somewhere out there.

[ 17-07-2001: Message edited by: Monkey onna skateboard ]
 
 
Not Here Still
17:15 / 17.07.01
Seeing as this has turned into an American rave discussion as much as anything, what are Hardkiss up to nowadays? I've hgot Delusions of Grandeur and I've seen the Sunburn site, but that's it.

Any news?
 
 
Cherry Bomb
18:44 / 17.07.01
OK, I kid you not, last weekend I spied several uniformed police officers carrying blue glowsticks that matched their uniforms. No matter what they were doing with them, you know when you see that that rave culture and fashion as you knew it is definitely over.
 
 
ynh
20:17 / 17.07.01
What I was thinking when the only reason my friend wasn't spirited off to jail was cause they caught someone else with a brick of hash. Last Chicago rave, and that wasn't last weekend, it was several years past.
 
 
No star here laces
21:51 / 17.07.01
re: free party scenes...

People tell me good things about Brazil (like there weren't enough reasons to want to go there already) and if anyone else has heard DJs Marky and Patife play that incredible brazilian drum 'n bass then you will also know that the music will be good. And they'll be packed with lots of unfeasibly good looking brazilian people. I'm somehow guessing there won't be many drugs in evidence except for chang though.

Also loads of my mates are planning trips to Portugal on the back of that country's (alleged) decision to legalise all drugs - some of them are planning to take out soundsystems etc. and I reckon the scene there could really kick off (and Lisbon has always had good clubs - remember USOL "The end of the earth is upon us, pretty soon it'll all turn to dust...")
 
 
Jamieon
10:27 / 18.07.01
Great! Barbelith's full of rave scum. I hate rave scum. And I hate drugs.

I just wanted to know who the pricks were so I could get together with the others and talk 'Korn'.

Anyway.....

quote: Oh yeah, does anyone else love techno but hate happy hardcore and gabba? I've still got the fear whenever I hear old DJ Sy and Lenny Dee tapes

Of course! I remember when people used to turn their nose up if you said you liked Techno, mistaking it for Happy/Gabba. Lenny Dee? My mate's brother and his girlfriend used to make "tunes" for his label, and they were pretty good pals. My mate (Joe) used to think of Lenny as his little God, and was flabbergasted when he actually got to meet him. It sounded great: they got to talk tunes that went "FUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!" all night.

Lucky him.

Gabba was weird 'cause, unless you lived in Scotland, nobody actually liked it (myself included). Gabba clubs would have a hardcore group of ravers that would turn up, religiously, every night..... And they were invariably freaks. And they all knew each other. If you lived down south and you went to a Gabba club in Brighton, and, the next week, one in London, you were bound to bump into someone you knew. Or, at least, that's what I was told.

Joe would sit by the stereo at parties, waiting till everyone was too inebriated to care about the music, and, suddenly, the pretty 4/4 beats of the 'Spooky' album would be replaced by a machine gun and the cry

"FUUUUUCKIN HOSTILE!"

And that's why we love him so.

Today he buys Dido albums, loves Nick Cave and Aimee Mann.

His brother DJ's Hip Hop under the name Blud 1, and a couple of years ago his girlfriend nearly won the DMC's.

Happy was atrocious. The result of the hardcore scene splitting into two camps: the "dark side"/ragga crowd, and the ravers that became addicted to the Chipmunk vocals and cheesy pianos. The Dark side/ragga people became junglists, and the others...... Uuurgh. I'd rather not talk about it.

[ 18-07-2001: Message edited by: Jamieon ]
 
 
Jamieon
10:44 / 18.07.01
Sorry boss.

And my name isn't "Jamieon", it's "Janieon", with an "n".

Kay?

JANIEON!

[ 18-07-2001: Message edited by: Jamieon ]
 
 
Jamieon
12:22 / 18.07.01
Don't you think I know my own name? It's the UBB's mistake, not mine.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
12:32 / 18.07.01
Eek. Handbag. Selfdelete!
 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
16:57 / 18.07.01
quote:Originally posted by The Flyboy:
Chris Brain, the Sheffield Rave Vicar. He used to be in a Christian rock band with my parents

Can't believe I missed this, you being in with the scary Christian rave overlords... you got connections, huh?

Oh and re Spiral Tribe, there are constant rumours around these parts (Brighton is a bit of a home from home for 'em) about them starting things up again...

Have huge problems with party scenes which consist of a load of (relatively) rich Westerners turning up somewhere beautiful and wrecking it, as has been the case around Goa to an extent (and speaking personally of course, bloody shitty Goa trance just adds insult to injury) ... I couldn't wait to get away from the 'party islands' in Thailand for precisely this reason... but I guess it's just another eg tricky relationship between the 'developing' world and the tourist dollar...

Was more thinking about various people's local scenes... went to parties in Israel a couple of years back which were pretty special...

oh and the Coalesce parties (london-based party crew/soundsystem) aren't musically really my thang but were/are always really great parties... great locations/themes... they pull off that 'big occasion' thing really well...

[ 18-07-2001: Message edited by: Lick my plums, bitch. ]
 
 
uncle retrospective
18:41 / 18.07.01
quote:Originally posted by Lick my plums, bitch.:

Was more thinking about various people's local scenes...

The Dublin scene is pretty crap. There's no real atmosphere in most clubs, maybe I'm just looking for some mecca human traffic kinda club.
People just aren't that frendly. I was in a club in Brixton 2 weeks ago and even though is was some of the most evil music I've heard in a club (some fucked up nasty form of hard house) everyone was really nice.
As opposed to the dublin too cool scene.

Plus the music over here tends to be muck. Loads of different stuff but the only nights I could be bothered with are the Bugged Out techno nights. Saying that I'm going to see David Holmes on Friday.

  
 
No star here laces
11:34 / 19.07.01
HAPPY HARDCORE ROOOOOLZ!

Sorry kids, but I loved this stuff. Not exclusively - at the time I was going to happy hardcore nights, I was also going to Edinburgh's temple of detroitness: Pure.

But I loved the whole stupid energy of the hardcore/gabba scene - all the dutch ravers who'd come over specially for Rezerection, and all the schemies wearing the identical same Kappa tracksuits, all the people swallowing whole wraps of base speed, and double-drop candyflipping. The way that the whole crowd would just jump up and down really fast in unison instead of dancing.

I mean of course the music was shite, but it didn't matter. All the best Happy stuff knew exactly what it was, and tipped a knowing wink towards it. Tunes like Brisk's Airhead or Hixxy and Sharkey's Toytown were great. And Q-Tex's cheesy hardcore ballads used to make me cry, and Rhythmic State's bombast would make me laugh. And then there was just the sheer insanity of the dutch stuff: "Jack the penis, jack the penis, jack jack jack the penis".

I remember "Fuckin hostile" too - especially it being played by a completely fucked sixteen year old with one arm who took over the decks at some shitty free party I was at. Gabba just guaranteed hundreds of hilarious moments in life...

Fuckin genius...
 
  

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