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Underground > Radio & Music >

soundz like...best of british

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19:56 / 07.11.01

quote:Originally posted by Flyboy:
Yes. Wanna make something of it?

(Listening to Belle and Sebastian doesn't mean you can't start some shit. Grrr!)

I suppose you're going to call them 'twee'. And then recommend Elliott Smith with a straight face.

easy, tiger! i'm a lover not a fighter. i have no problem with twee, either... sorry...i need to keep my mouth shut...butwhat's your problem with elliott smith? huh?

[ 07-11-2001: Message edited by: lolita nation ]

autopilot disengaged

09:07 / 08.11.01

cut + pasted across from the US of A thread for greater clarity: this is kind of what i meant, for this thread:

yeah: i wanna know the movers! the shakers!

who is presently pushing the envelope, at the very periphery of the industry? whether it means lo-fi nonstrementalism, or computer age chaos - breeding previously incompatible strains of music with unpredictable effects?

meanwhile, who are the big artists leading the assorted mainstream bandwagons? why are they so big? what trends/demographics are they profiting from - and what are they creating?

imagine this is the fashion biz - which to a greater or lesser extent it is - who are the people making the most impact this 'season'? and what, or who, are yr tips for the future?

uh: i'm not expecting any one person to answer all these questions... it's personal opinion, and 'sides, should be ongoing.

Locust No longer

19:32 / 08.11.01

Let's see:
AMM
Eddie Prevost
Keith Rowe
Evan Parker
Derek Bailey
Paul Rutherford

Graeme McMillan

23:25 / 08.11.01

quote:Originally posted by autopilot disengaged:
meanwhile, who are the big artists leading the assorted mainstream bandwagons?

Robbie Williams. Radiohead. Damon Albarn in both his Blur and Gorillaz suits.

Godbless'emall.

Pin

08:23 / 09.11.01

Erm... I like Belle and Sebastian, though I don't think I'm helping the cause any...

No star here laces

10:50 / 09.11.01

quote:Originally posted by autopilot disengaged:
meanwhile, who are the big artists leading the assorted mainstream bandwagons? why are they so big? what trends/demographics are they profiting from - and what are they creating?

Well the leaders of the UK garage bandwagon in the mainstream eye are definitely So Solid Crew and Mis-Teeq.

The other big mainstream things with the kids would be nu metal and hip hop (and of course the perennial indie).

UK hip hop hasn't made much impression on most teenagers, except for the really savvy ones. But the people making all the running just now in terms of recorded material are the incredibly prolific Rodney P, Skinnyman and the Mud Family. On the production side, Mark B and Skitz have made the biggest producer-led albums (as opposed to Roots Manuva, which is MC-led) and are also the ones doing the most gigging.

I wouldn't know anything about guitar stuff.

22:12 / 11.11.01

Is this just me? I have real trouble telling any radioheads osngs apart, and it's sapping my love for them. They're all slow and full of T(h)om York(e) going oooouuuuuuyuuuh and crazyfacing, and I can't really love that.

are starsailor english? I like their new sonmg. I like gorillaz, and blur, which follows on pretty logically, and reef and menswear.

--m

Ronald Thomas Clontle

00:26 / 12.11.01

quote:Originally posted by mike_bro:
Is this just me? I have real trouble telling any radioheads osngs apart,

weird. for me, one of the things I love about Kid Amnesiac is that every song has its own conceptual/musical premise, and yet they all sound like they come from the same place.

05:41 / 12.11.01

I swear, if you were to play five radiohead songs in a row, completely different ones, I would not be able to tell you how many songs I just heard. I mean, I love Karma Police, and I know that they make brilliant music, but not all of it works on me.

I suppose it's lucky for them I'm the exception.

The Natural Way

05:41 / 12.11.01

God, auto, I didn't realise yr tates would be so....ummmmm...pop.

My vote would go to the delightful Boards of Canada, for keeping that romantic, pastoral vibe going.... so green and pleasant.....

Even though they're Scottish.

And Schnieder TM for sounding all futuristic and glitchy, but also pretty and melodic: genuinely new and special.

Regrettable Juvenilia

05:41 / 12.11.01

quote:Originally posted by yunrunce:
God, auto, I didn't realise yr tates would be so....ummmmm...pop.

Indeed. He didn't even mention Coldwater Suplex.

The Natural Way

10:55 / 12.11.01

Point taken.

But, c'mon, Asian Dub Foundation? The Prodigy? Underworld? Chemicals? I just expected autopilot to have slightly more beardy taste.....not that I've confused hir with a fatbeard or anything.

Actually, thinking about it, these guys aren't really pop anymore - they're not really anything. Have to agree with pretty much everything Ty said.

Regrettable Juvenilia

11:09 / 12.11.01

Except Ty didn't lump ADF into "these guys", and I can't see why you have, either. Those other three you mention are hugely popular artists making music which simultaneosly attracts dance, pop and indie fans - music which, if isn't instrumental, may as well be since the vocals are a sonic effect rather than a means of communicating a message. Music that's almost entirely hedonistic in purpose (I'm not saying these are in themselves bad things). ADF are something quite different - and I hardly see them as part of the "usual suspects" brigade.

The Natural Way

11:26 / 12.11.01

I lumped ADF in there cause their sound is equally pop and equally accessible - maybe not as popular as the other's, maybe a lot more political, but just as likely to appear on the bill for some indie dance festival at which one of the others is headlining. Their sound is as mid nineties as the rest and, and this is where I agree with Ty, just as irrelevant.

[ 12-11-2001: Message edited by: yunrunce ]

Regrettable Juvenilia

11:32 / 12.11.01

ADF have *never* been "hugely popular". They're currently out of the public eye more or less completely because it's been a while since the last album.

(Edit because I think I misunderstood what you were saying. To answer the other part of your post - the popularity or otherwise of the Chem Bros, Prodigy and Underworld will be demonstrated when their new records materialise.)

I'd put them in the other group autopilot suggested - they are, as far as I'm concerned, "pushing the envelope... breeding previously incompatible strains of music with unpredictable effects". They're also one of the tiny handful of British bands who have something to say - even more unusual is the fact that you can dance to what they're saying...

[ 12-11-2001: Message edited by: Flyboy ]

The Natural Way

11:40 / 12.11.01

How are they "pushing the envelope"? By fusing sitar samples, rock guitars and dance beats with a bit of singing/rapping? This just isn't new, Fly.

But the world is quaking in the wake of more aircraft-as-bombs style terrorism, so I'll have to go.

But, remember, I love you and want to sex you.

[ 12-11-2001: Message edited by: yunrunce ]

No star here laces

12:56 / 12.11.01

I'm going to get back on my soapbox now as I've just spotted this:

...breeding previously incompatible strains of music with unpredictable effects...

Originally posted by autopilot as a definition of who is "pushing the envelope".

This is, I have to say, a hopelessly white, middle-class, intellectual liberal viewpoint, and one that is predicated on the assumption that all pop music is essentially just 'pop', a facile ever-changing confection.

To equate mutation and blending with progress, or even artistic ability, is hopelessly reductive. This is swallowing the need of the media and the record companies to always sell you something new, and it is swallowing it wholesale.

New does not equal worthwhile. And even if it did, blending is not the only way to get something new.

Underground scenes are communities of musicians and music-lovers and produce music to move members of that community. The audiences are as important as the performers because their tastes shape the output of the musicians. This is the mechanism by which the 'purist' sound is refined and polished until it takes on a whole new form.

The tedious studio-bound 'blending' of novelty-obsessed 'sonic experimentalists' doesn't push any envelopes (except possibly fat brown ones filled with cash).

I'm going to take this one to the head shop (ooooh, get her...)

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:17 / 12.11.01

Well, you have a point, but coming from the person who said this:

quote:Originally posted by Tyrone Mushylaces:
Um folks, the original question wasn't:

"please drudge up the same stale old list of your personal favourite musicians"

It was in fact:

"which british musicians are important today"

Now, UK garage clearly doesn't "rock". You may not like it much. BUT it is currently defining:

1) A new rhythmic aesthetic that is neither 4/4 nor breakbeat

2) A new and uniquely british style of mcing that has finally combined the attitude and patois of dancehall, the rhythm of jungle mcing, r&b singing styles and the lyrical content of hip hop

3) A strongly teenage, working class and counter-cultural aesthetic

If this isn't a significant thing to be happening in UK music I'll eat my furry kangol.

...I find your vitriol a little hypocriti-col.

13:30 / 12.11.01

Yeah, with all due respect, fuck this 'keep the musical blood pure' noise.

autopilot disengaged

15:20 / 12.11.01

...in which Auto-P2001 defends his honour...

quoteriginally posted by yunrunce:
God, auto, I didn't realise yr tates would be so....ummmmm...pop.

heh. well, essentially i've always felt like a pop kid. but my definition of that might just as well be post-rock or indie hip-hop as spacenik r&b.

quote:But, c'mon, Asian Dub Foundation? The Prodigy? Underworld? Chemicals? I just expected autopilot to have slightly more beardy taste.....not that I've confused hir with a fatbeard or anything.

...i think you'll get a much better pic of what i listen to by checking the other 'best of...' threads - one thing this little exercise has made me realise is how much of the music i'm into right now doesn't come from the US/UK. of the bands you list i absolutely stand by ADF as having, just, massive potential... the chemicals, underworld & co i admit were more down to sentimentality than anything. couldn't quite turn on people who gave me 'born slippy' etc.

and Ty: that sounds really interesting, and i'm happy to have my concepts questioned and mind widened - 'specially if it gets me new musick. see you over at the headshop.

that said, i don't think rejecting stylistic fusion in entirity is in any way less of a pointless generalization.

The Natural Way

10:39 / 13.11.01

Yeah, I dug Underworld like billy o in 95, but, my taste being the fickle thing it is, now I say, "wha!ha!ha!t? 'Here comes Christ on crutches?!?!' What's the deal here, Underworld, you bunch of prannies?!?"

Or something like that.

Well, I guess we'll all have to just agree to disagree about the whole ADF thing. Just don't see how they're innovators myself, but they do seem like very nice chaps, so.....

Ty, you know it's all just music - "experimental" doesn't equal "crap". In fact, "experimental" doesn't really equal "experimental". These things aren't their pigeonholes. For fuck's sake, you get all upset when someone cusses disco and then start slagging off music even more diverse, even harder to pin down, and, therefore, even harder to reduce/deconstruct.

14:59 / 14.11.01

the bands that have been mentioned in this thread are all pretty much samey, white boy bands that are not without merit but are always loved and big upped by nme.
the editor of the nme once worked at the daily mail which is a right wing paper, and his sexist musical tendancies show through the bands he chooses to write about.
my friend is in a band and happens to be female, and has been told by the nme that people don't listen to bands anymore.
every week however the strokes and starsailor are hyped.
i've got nothing against the bands that have been listed in this thread, but i wish that there was a little more diversity in these lists.
i get angry when i realise that us bands which are pioneering the nu grrl sound such as sleater kinney, le tigre, the haggard, bitch and animal and the hissyfits are totally ignored in the nme pages.
there aren't many music papers left in the uk, and nme needs to embrace grrl music as well as the white-boy kind, or the music scene is gonna end up even more boring than it is now.
i try not to take it personally when i on't see female musicians in nme (even rolling stone and spin have covered le tigre!), but i can't help it.
i find many bands who are successful in the uk right now are turgid and dull. travis, coldplay and the stereophonics do not play with any passion whatsoever, and that bothers me. uk garage is becoming increasingly male dominated. my chum who is a female garage deejay is feeling pushed out of her circle in london.
um, this is depressing me and i am going around in circles.
this is my first ever post here so please be gentle with me...hello everyone, i'm suds.

Regrettable Juvenilia

15:12 / 14.11.01

Hello, suds. I quite agree. But we did mention Electrelane! And Le Tigre are getting big props in the USA thread. And their own.

(It does seem like the UK music press is *particularly* bad for paying attention to people who don't have cocks in rock...)

But anyway, you sound like you have the right idea. About everything. Welcome!

[ 14-11-2001: Message edited by: Flyboy ]

No star here laces

15:21 / 14.11.01

Hello suds.

Um so your point is we shouldn't have so many white boy bands and should have more white girl bands.

Okaaay. That'd be diverse, then.

21:30 / 14.11.01

tyrone, thats just what i meant. i hate boys, can't you tell? rock on.

No star here laces

10:01 / 15.11.01

Hmm, but the point being surely that there aren't that many girl bands listed in the thread cos there aren't that many girl bands.

Rather than because we're all a bunch of patriarchal twarts.

Regrettable Juvenilia

10:04 / 15.11.01

Tyrone... so by the same token, you think that when indie white boy rock dominates threads here, it's cos there aren't that many black people making music?

"There aren't that many girl bands..." - there aren't many that come to wider attention. For reasons which suds does actually mention.

10:13 / 15.11.01

tyrone, i don't think anyone here is a 'patriarchal twart'! i didn't say that at all!
flyboy is right, i have chums who are in all grrl bands who are actually really kick-ass, but they are told by the nme that they can't be featured because 'people don't listen to bands anymore'.
the next week starsailor are on the cover.
see my point?
i agree that it does seem like there are no good female bands out there. it's just because they're not getting any recognition in the music press.
and it's a sucky situation because we're missing out on good music.
personally, i don't give a fuck if the music is made my a green skinned gender mutant from mars...but press like nme bypassing bands because they are female leaves me angry as fuck.
the end.

No star here laces

10:37 / 15.11.01

Suds, don't mind me in these music threads: I don't mean anything I say and am a general hypocrite.

Having said that - y'can't really expect people to mention music that has no way of reaching their ears e.g. all these amazing girl bands who are rejected by the NME.

Plus I seriously do believe that fewer women than men are involved in making music. Probably for much the same reason that more men play computer games, read comics or become professional snooker players. Which isn't to say because they're better, but because they're more nerdy.

So it's not really fair to compare mentions of black music (which are criminally few) with mentions of music by women. The board could probably be accused of racism (how many minority members did we have at last count?).

Anyway there's no real point to this.

10:42 / 15.11.01

i didn't compare female musicians with black musicians. i think you'll find that you did.
i don't think that more boys than girls make music either. i don't think you can be inheriently 'bad' at a certain thing such as comics just because you have a cunt.
the fact is that female musicians are not being big upped as male musicians have been in the nme. not because there are less of them, just because the nme is run by a lot of fools. i'm sure we agree on that!

13:23 / 15.11.01

hurrah for suds - who's made me smile and nod in agreement in two threads within five minutes.

quote:Originally posted by Flyboy:

(It does seem like the UK music press is *particularly* bad for paying attention to people who don't have cocks in rock...)

Yeah, did you see the NME 'guitar britain' (

)feature - god that pissed me off!!

"Here's the Ten Best New Bands in Britain .. (who are all-male, have major label backing and are dumb and unimaginative enough to appeal to Oasis/Bizkit fans)!"

In fact, I was so annoyed wrote my own alternative list and sent it to them with a big 'fuck you' - see the first page of this thread.

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:29 / 15.11.01

Yeah, I saw that issue. It had a Union Jack on the cover. All ten of those bands seemed like deeply moronic jamrags.

The new issue of the NME has a big 'weed' symbol on the cover. Please, somebody stop me if I ever go to buy another copy, or find myself defending it in conversation...

15:04 / 15.11.01

This has to be the bitchiest thread I've seen in ages. Fierce.

The board could probably be accused of racism (how many minority members did we have at last count?). – Tyrone

What sort of question is that? I doubt it's possible to tell what color, race or creed one is by one's posts.

No star here laces

15:20 / 15.11.01

Because people frequently mention it.

And I'd be willing to wager a large-ish sum that I could count 'em on the fingers of one hand.

And for the record fly brought up the race thing (sort of - I mentioned it first but only jokingly).

11:04 / 16.11.01

thank-you rizla!
i'm glad we're all agreed that the nme sucks, but where else are we going to find out music news? blah, blah, blah...

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