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pointless remakes

 
  

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hanabius yamamura
20:28 / 02.02.02
bit of a newbie at this ... so apologies if this has already been discussed ...

i was sitting reading a film mag recently when i read that the dread engine of hollywood was going to 'remake' RING ... a particularly good film from japan that has absolutely nothing wrong with it and definitely does not 'need' remade .
no doubt they intend to give it a 'happy' ending and find some cameo for the omnipresent robin williams in it .. ( sorry robin ).

just wondered if anyone had any tales of woe re decent films murdered in the remake process or any rumours of future 'horrors' of the hollywood happy ending?

 
 
Ganesh
20:51 / 02.02.02
Well, the relatively recent remake of 'The Vanishing' was a bit pish, with the gimpy tacked-on ending which more-or-less invalidated (or at least sucked all the horror out of) the entire film.

Wasn't there a remake of Hitchcock's 'Rear Window' starring Christopher Reeve (hmm, wonder why he got that role...)? Didn't see it so can't really judge - but the premise stank.
 
 
gentleman loser
09:02 / 03.02.02
Rollerball, to be relased soon, which now stars teen doofus heartthrob Chris Klein. I know it's not a popular film, but it's still one of my favorite dystopian 70's SciFi films (before Star Wars killed that genre). Guess what? No multinational corporate / bread and circuses commentary in this version (I'm shocked) and I'd expect the usual tacked on Hollywood happy ending where the hero lays a big wet one on the female object.

Roll credits!

James Caan's Jonathan E would have twisted that Klein punk's head clean off.

Good idea for a topic, BTW.

[ 03-02-2002: Message edited by: gentleman loser ]
 
 
Ganesh
09:06 / 03.02.02
'Planet of the Apes'. Perhaps the most pointless remake ever...
 
 
Bear
09:12 / 03.02.02
Yeah someone mentioned the Ring before, looks like their going to turn into a nice teen horror

Talking of remakes right now on C4 (UK) the orignal version on Vannila Sky has just started - if anyone is awake - or cares
 
 
Warrington Minge
09:14 / 03.02.02
Have to add Psycho 98 to the list. Only hitchcock can remake Hitchcock. Even before he started making it everyone told Gus Van zant that it was a bad idea. He even said at one point that a lot of people were put off the original psycho because it was in Black and white. How sad is that coming from a film maker of van Zant's standing.

I never saw the remake of Rear window. wasn't that a specially made for TV thing. How can you beat the original. That all in one set alone from the original should have put most people off. How can you make that better?
 
 
Warrington Minge
09:17 / 03.02.02
originally posted by vampbear

quote: Talking of remakes right now on C4 (UK) the orignal version on Vannila Sky has just started - if anyone is awake - or cares

Cheers mate

I was watching some crappy Sherlyn Fenn thriller on the beeb. I am now back on the four.

Good Job
 
 
moriarty
09:23 / 03.02.02
quote:Originally posted by gentleman loser:
Rollerball.


For some reason, this remake burns me up even more than most. I think it might be because although many remakes might screw up because they change parts of the movie, or just mess up through sheer incompentance, this "remake" of Rollerball seems to have absolutely nothing to do with the original. The original Rollerball is even more relevant for today, and a remake examining the dark side of current x-treme sports/reality tv/passive consumer culture would make for great viewing. Instead we're going to get a string of cool action sequences with the Rollerball tag slapped on.

And the worst part is, everyone one of my friends is going to think it's the coolest thing on Earth. Give me Gymkata any day.

Oh, and I know it's quite a bit off-topic, but aren't most remakes "pointless?" Can anyone name a remake that is the equal to the original?

[ 03-02-2002: Message edited by: moriarty ]
 
 
hanabius yamamura
09:34 / 03.02.02
another pointless remake ... you could say any rocky film

ps cheers gentleman loser

[ 03-02-2002: Message edited by: hana_bi ]
 
 
hanabius yamamura
09:42 / 03.02.02
re remakes as good as the original ...

i always liked the mel gibson film PAYBACK ... a remake of point blank i think.
nicely shot with a kind of blue/black tinge ... and as someone mentioned on another thread - no good guys .

ALSO ...THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN is on a par with ( although not as good as )THE SEVEN SAMURAI .

[ 03-02-2002: Message edited by: hana_bi ]
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
09:47 / 03.02.02
quote:Originally posted by Ganesh v4.2:
Wasn't there a remake of Hitchcock's 'Rear Window' starring Christopher Reeve (hmm, wonder why he got that role...)? Didn't see it so can't really judge - but the premise stank.
Oh yes, there was. And I saw it. And it fucking sucked. It was really quite distressing to watch Chris wheel his way through the flick - it had C5 written all over it...

Dammit! Has anyone taped that original Vanilla Sky flick?

And as for remakes? Well, I thought when they remade the Ben-Hur chariot race in Star Wars: Episode I, that was just ripping the piss...
 
 
moriarty
09:47 / 03.02.02
quote:Originally posted by hana_bi:
i always liked the mel gibson film PAYBACK ... a remake of point blank i think.
nicely shot with a kind of blue/black tinge ... and as someone mentioned on another thread - no good guys.


From what I heard, they toned it down quite a bit to suit Gibson, which is too bad. And, never having seen it, I was not aware it was a remake of Point Blank. I know it's presumptuous of me, but I find it hard to believe Gibson, or, well, anybody, could equal the grandeur of Lee Fucking Marvin.

[ 03-02-2002: Message edited by: moriarty to include the word "Fucking" in "Lee Fucking Marvin"]

[ 03-02-2002: Message edited by: moriarty ]
 
 
The Strobe
09:47 / 03.02.02
I bitch about this in every possible thread.

Insomnia.

You know, Swedish, Stellan Skarsgard, cop goes to Norway, goes nuts because he can't sleep in permanent light, kills fellow cop and gets blackmailed? Brilliant movie? Well odd? 1997? No reason to be remade?

Enter Christopher "Memento/Following" Nolan, Al Pacino, Robin Williams as the bad guy, Maura Tierney and her fabulous ass, and most worryingly... subsituting ALASKA for Norway.

Oh dear. I do not look forward to this.

How pointless???

Very.
 
 
videodrome
09:47 / 03.02.02
There will be spoilers in here, so stop now....


Didn't like Insomnia so much to begin with. As much as I hate pointless remakes, I'm a little curious to see if Nolan can do something good with Williams.

Have to reiterate The Vanishing as just awful. And Sluizer did it! Someone said that only Hitchcock can remake Hitchcock, but even he didn't do his own movie as well the second time. Why did anyone think The Vanishing would work?
(Gotta bitch, though. Just watched the original again and the shot of the killer with the shovel completely robs the ending of its power...a shame.)

And I further the thread with Ransom a shite remake of the wonderful High And Low. And on the subject of Kurosawa remakes...Last Man Standing.
 
 
Margin Walker
09:47 / 03.02.02
Hollywood has a bad habit of re-making French films that weren't half-way decent in the first place. "Three Men & a Baby", "Nine Months", "The Birdcage", "Just Visiting", "Mrs. Doubtfire". And that crap's just off the top of my head....
 
 
Molly Shortcake
09:47 / 03.02.02
quote:Can anyone name a remake that is the equal to the original?

Terminator 2, Not a sequal. One of those oh-so-clever postmodern remakes.
Never occured to me until I watched them back to back one day.

Some people argue the same point with Alien / Aliens and the Scream trilogy. Undecided myself.
 
 
videodrome
09:47 / 03.02.02
Equal to the original? How about better. Evil Dead II - an 'oh so clever postmodern remake' but still better than the first.

Even if the second Alien film is an arguable remake, it's still far inferior to the original.
 
 
Molly Shortcake
09:47 / 03.02.02
T2 leads you to belive that it's a continuation in the storyline. Evil Dead 2 chucks continunity out the window, takes what works from the first and builds on it.
 
 
Molly Shortcake
09:47 / 03.02.02
Blade 2...

Oh shit it isn't even out yet.
 
 
Molly Shortcake
09:47 / 03.02.02
12 Monkeys is an interesting Hollywood remake of Vertigo fused with some French film (who's name escapes me).

Sliding Doors, another piss poor HW version of a pomo art film.

Point of No Return. Why oh why? What was wrong with just releasing Nikita?
 
 
Molly Shortcake
09:47 / 03.02.02
...then there's filmakers who are acused of recycling the same films over and over... David Lynch is most obvious.

Cronenbergs eXistenZe is a vastly inferior version of Videodrome.
 
 
Analogues On
10:42 / 03.02.02
quote: 12 Monkeys is an interesting Hollywood remake of Vertigo fused with some French film (who's name escapes me).

That would be La Jetee

.... although I always thought of 12 Monkeys as more of a “re-imagining” than a remake, fusing various sources (Vertigo, La Jetee, Terminator, The Dead Zone, Brazil) to create a film that appears to be both homage and original.
 
 
Rev. Wright
12:31 / 03.02.02
EVIL DEAD 2 better than the EVIL DEAD, NO WAY. and I'm prepared to fight till the death on that one.

Existenze is not necessarily a direct remake of Videodrome. Videodrome is directly involved with the hypnotic, naye narcotic effect of television, and mans ability to self-prophesise its own demise.
Existenze is in the same theme, but looks more into the bio-mechanical link between man and machine, interesting alluding to Lynch's theme of indentity (who are you?)
and who is in control of it?

Why remake Nikita (le Femme Nikita) huh?
Why remake Priscilla Queen of the Dessert?
Why remake many great european/world cinema in Hollywood, beats the fuck out of me.

Yojimbo - Fist Full of Dollars - Last Man Standing

Seven samurai - Magnificent Seven - Battle Beyond the Stars.

Hidden Fortress - Star Wars

Kurosawa is a lord.

Remaking The Vanishing was a crime

THE MOVIE POLICE ARE WATCHING

(no really I am as mad in real life)
 
 
Molly Shortcake
13:43 / 03.02.02
Have to agree RRL.

Transformers the Movie is a remake of Tron. I particulary like how the exchanges between Sark and the MCP are blantantly ripped off. Galvatron and Unicron look just like em too.

[ 03-02-2002: Message edited by: Lord Rugal Ultimate ]
 
 
videodrome
14:01 / 03.02.02
Will -
The Evil Dead thing is a matter of taste. I've always been bored by the first - don't find it scary or particularly entertaining. Love the second, though.

While eXistenZ (no 'e') isn't a direct remake of Videodrome, it was his first original script since Videodrome, so the similarities are notable. And while each deals with the things you mentioned, at a deeper level both wonder how perception affects reality and how that question affects moral decisions. In that respect, I find the two films form a loose trilogy of intent with Naked Lunch.

And since this is 'pointless remakes' I can't see a reason to mention Leone's Yojimbo remake, since it's a great film and an interesting remake. Kurosawa's period pictures were often more Westerns than 'Easterns' - look at the use of music in The Hidden Fortress as a flag. Many of his samurai pictures have a big theme of isolation vs expansion, which is an analog of Western themes.

Besides, Yojimbo is based on Hammett's Red Harvest to begin with...
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
14:18 / 03.02.02
I looked through the topic and agree with most everything being said...

But one thing I thought of is that plays are re-ade constantly. The first performance almost doesn't matter as much as if the play is able to be redone in other venues with other casts. A play that is based on a specific star playing the lead may do well at the time, but quickly dies and is forgotten, while one that can be remade over and over again is called "successful."

Why are movies so different? If a script is done well enough and the people working on it have talent, why isn't a remake as good as the original? Is it because movies are so different that they can't be re-imaged and redone very well or is it that everyone involved THINKS that way?

Or...(thinking while typing) are plays just inherantly written better, therefor they can be done over and over (even as movies...)?
 
 
sleazenation
16:26 / 03.02.02
Or is it that plays are rooted in the moment and are not available for infinite replay as films are.

Plays are a different media to films.
 
 
bio k9
18:00 / 03.02.02
I always thought of 12 Monkeys as more of a re-imagining than a remake (of La Jetee).

Its been about eight years since I saw La Jetee but as I remember it was only about 15 minutes long and made up of nothing but still shots with voice over narration. 12Monkeys managed to stretch that into a couple of hours so I'd agree that its not a remake a la Van Sants Psycho.
 
 
Bear
18:05 / 03.02.02
Rothkoid I've taped the original if u want a shot btw....

um um trying to keep it on topic before the police get there, want Reservoir dogs a remake (more or less) of a Japanese movie?
 
 
moriarty
18:39 / 03.02.02
Everything you need to know about the Reservoir Dogs/City on Fire controversy.
 
 
videodrome
20:08 / 03.02.02
Also The Shining and Dune - longer does not make better.
 
 
Lee
20:23 / 03.02.02
As someone who has watched far too many Rutger Hauer films (mainly thanks to Channel Five), I would like to add Redline to the remakes of Point Blank (co-starring the equally ridiculous Marc Dacsacos) and offer my sympathies to Kurosawa, who was still alive when Yojimbo was remade as Omega Doom.

But not all remakes are this stupid. For example: Cape Fear, Gaslight, Rio Bravo/El Dorado, LA Takedown/Heat, Traffic, Ball of Fire/A Song is Born (Howard Hawks again).

Also, let us not forget the umpteen versions of Three Musketeers, Robin Hood, Hamlet, Wutherng Heights, or Farwell, My Lovely. The point being that any remake is an adaptation of a particular source material, and what difference does it make if the original is a book, a play, a TV series or another film? If a writer or director feels they can re-present a familiar story in a strange and interesting way, this should be encouraged. If they then turn out to be a talentless, braindead, ego-driven time-killer well, then, the original is in no way cheapened and perhaps even improves in standing.
 
 
Warrington Minge
20:33 / 03.02.02
Originally posted by Videodrome

quote: Also The Shining and Dune - longer does not make better.

You could also add to this by talking about the bizarre changes Kubrick made to Stephen Kings original story to make the transition to film.
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Scatman Crothers character gets killed of halfway through the film version yet he survives to the end of the book and saves the day. Also Danny's ability to shine is only touched briefly upon in the film yet it is pretty much the main subject of the book. Must have confused a few people who haven't read the book considering, like the film, it was called The Shining.
 
 
videodrome
02:47 / 04.02.02
Warrington, did you see a different film than I did? The difference is in the narrative form. King talks about shining a lot, but uses that smell of oranges thing to signify it - having a character smell something don't work so well on screen. It's a lot better to have Danny just see things. So in the film, we are told that he may see things because he shines, and then Kubrick wisely just lets it play - eveything that Danny (and we) see is because he can shine.

As for Scatman's character - I like the way Kubrick plays that. The book is too hack when it comes to that character and the ending. It works OK as a pulp ending, but Kubrick's film is far more bleak, and executing Scatman is an essential component of that.

Would be happy to discuss more, but would rather start a new thread for it rather than jacking this one...
 
 
Jackie Susann
04:24 / 04.02.02
Mullholland Drive is a great remake of Hellraiser.
 
  

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