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I Fucking Hate 'Friends'

 
  

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Shortfatdyke
23:58 / 25.01.02
is this general barbelith consensus, or should i go into detail? feel free to vent if you hate the series as much as i do.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
00:09 / 26.01.02
I'm pretty indifferent about that show, but I can totally understand why people would hate it, and likewise why so many people really like it. It's got its fair share of funny bits, which is waaaaaaay ahead of most network sitcoms currently on the air...
 
 
Shortfatdyke
00:14 / 26.01.02
it's just that apart from the 'cutesiness' of it, i've yet to see a non-white person anywhere, the gay references seem to be all 'look at the freaks' and it's fatphobic to boot.

don't mind me. i can't sleep and am feeling grumpy.....
 
 
Mazarine
01:21 / 26.01.02
quote:Originally posted by shortfatdyke:
i've yet to see a non-white person anywhere


oh, you forget Rachel's stereotypically smouldering Latin lover who spoke virtually no English but was fab in the sack.

Nah, it's not just you. The characters- especially the female ones- are really paper dolls of people. I'm sure five, ten years from now, we'll all look back on it with the same horror with which we currently look back on "Full House."
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
01:51 / 26.01.02
i've yet to see a non-white person anywhere, the gay references seem to be all 'look at the freaks' and it's fatphobic to boot.

Oh, that's all very true, but it's also true of a great majority of American tv. It seems a bit unfair to single out that one show, bearing that in mind.

Last night I saw the new
Nerve.com tv show on HBO, and it bothered me for some very similar ways ... For those of you not familiar with Nerve and too lazy to check up the link, it's a website/magazine which is created for the yuppie demographic, it sells itself as 'smut for intellectuals', which obviously is a laughable concept in and of itself.

So, in all the versions of the magazine, it's meant to be for sexy sensualist young people who are smart and openminded. But if you look closely, it's really about skinny, sexy, trendy urban hipsters, and how THEY are sexy, and what THEIR sexual desires are. The magazine plays a lot of lip service to homosexuality and bisexuality, but so long as they are sexy, skinny, trendy urban hipsters. Same goes for blacks, latinos, asians...you name it.

The tv version exaggerates all of the problems....the only time you ever see black people is when they are at a party in full yuppie gear, or when a muscular black man is fucking a small white woman, with a lingering shot of his grinding ass. The only time you see asians is at an office meeting (they show the entire Nerve staff -- all of them skinny attractive yuppie types) and a hot writhing asian girl.

You only see overweight people on random street shots, mostly looking incredulously at the antics of Nerve-approved exhibitionists. The only lesbians that you see are 20 year old lipstick lesbians.

On and on... it just irks me so much. I just hate the way it sells itself in theory as a celebration of sexuality, but then goes on to eliminate such a huge number of different people from the equation...in a way it feels like it seeks to deny other people sexuality if they don't meet their qualifications for what hot sex should look, act, feel, and think like...

It's not too much different from a lot of things in pop culture, but in this, it seems like its being honest with *itself*, like they actually think they are something more than just smut designed specifically for pretentious yuppies...


ah, anyway, sorry to throw in this tangent. I guess we're both coming from similar places in terms of why these things bother us...
 
 
Molly Shortcake
03:38 / 26.01.02
quote:i've yet to see a non-white person anywhere,

So what? The NAACP is still upset there are no black friends. Mabey they could throw in a Ethopian jew, an Armenian and a Mongolian. I can see it now: 'UN Friends'.

quote:the gay references seem to be all 'look at the freaks' and it's fatphobic to boot.

...cuz yuppies never act this way....

If it's homosexual overtones, fatties and ethnic diversity you want from television - you'd best start watching the WWF.

[ 26-01-2002: Message edited by: Ice Honkey ]
 
 
Shortfatdyke
05:02 / 26.01.02
flux - been checking out the link. nerve looks like it's going to piss me off nearly as much as friends! i pick on that show in particular because it is so incredibly popular in the uk, a person is seen as unorthodox if they don't have a friends coffee mug, stack of videos, and squeal with delight when the theme tune comes on.

ice - friends is set in manhatten. i've been to manhatten! - and it wasn't full of skinny, rich, white, beautiful people. if the 'friends' are all the above, it's still inexplicable that street scenes show no one who is different from them. surely what that means is the writers are telling us how they'd like manhatten to be?

and a recent episode showed ross - such a nice guy - dancing with children standing on his toes at a wedding. he turns round to see (gasp) - a fat girl asking to dance with him! to stand on his toes! cue screams of laughter and disgust.....
 
 
The Monkey
05:47 / 26.01.02
SFD,

Friends makes we want to find brand new methods of using power tools on human subjects.
And I'm really fucking sick of skinny white breeders, with the occasional archetypal queer/ethnic-of-some-kind for spice, assaulting the airwaves. Somehow it's more offensive that plotlines occasionally feature "token" characters who are even more two-dimensional than the regulars....

/*mockery*/ "Hi! I'm Troy, you're sterotypical gay waiter, who has perfect abs, limp wrists, and off the job wears nothing but Prada and does little else but make 'sassy' comments to his 'girlfriends' about bubble butts and penis size."

Sorry...anyway, peave aside...
There was once an anthropology article...I dunno where published [here's looking at you, intellectual angels of the board]...entirely about depictions of income expenditure in popular television. It was pre-Friends, but bare with me...
The whole point was, all these television progs show characters operating low-end white-collar jobs, yet live in a material environment--clothes, apartment, decorations, etc., even hair and makeup--costing hundreds of thousands per annum in upkeep. Get into the realm of Aaron Spelling, and the presented-income versus expenditure/ consumption ration goes up tenfold.

Somehow this bugs even more atop everything else. Bring me the head of Aaron Spelling and I'll feel better...
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
08:20 / 26.01.02
Re; Fatphobia. I watched the two-part 'what if' episode with my jaw on the floor thinking 'How do they get away with broadcasting this shit?' and was furious after. I come across the odd episode now and again and recently saw most of the Winona Ryder episode. Not just cheap titillation for the boys watching, oh no...
 
 
Bear
08:20 / 26.01.02
You know something, I'm going to get friends cancelled, its a rip off of the Golden Girls !! dum dum dum

if you think about it the characters are more or less the same, you have Chandler = The Sarcastic Mother in GG - you have Courtney Cox who plays Dorethy you know trying to keep everyone in check, you have Joey who's the lady that always had a new guy on the go - oh yeah Lisa Kudrow she's the other GG character you know the one that was a bit dim but nice really -

anyway that probably doesnt make much sense but i have a hangover
 
 
Mazarine
12:33 / 26.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Bear:
You know something, I'm going to get friends cancelled, its a rip off of the Golden Girls !! dum dum dum


Freaky. My roommate was a huge GG fan, so I caught way more episodes than I would've normally, I hear what you're saying... wow....
 
 
videodrome
13:13 / 26.01.02
quote:Originally posted by shortfatdyke:

ice - friends is set in manhatten. i've been to manhatten! - and it wasn't full of skinny, rich, white, beautiful people. if the 'friends' are all the above, it's still inexplicable that street scenes show no one who is different from them. surely what that means is the writers are telling us how they'd like manhatten to be?


It may be set in Manhatten, but it's shot in LA, and LA is full of skinny, white, rich, beautiful people. And as far as the writers/producers telling us what they want their Manhatten to be, I think you've given way too much credit. They are actually responded to what the viewing public has told them time and time again they want to see.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
14:40 / 26.01.02
bear - you've now ruined the golden girls for me! pass me some cheesecake if you wanna be forgiven.....
 
 
Tempus
15:01 / 26.01.02
You know, not to defend Friends by any means, but I do recall that Ross' ex-wife and her lesbian lover (both pretty non-freakish, albeit skinny and white) were fairly prominent in the show, and that their wedding was something of a TV first. Now, I haven't watched TV in about three years, but I also feel the need to point out that you'll be somewhat out of luck if you're looking for ethnic diversity anywhere on TV (American, at least). Ethnic groups either have their own shows, or are "tokens" on someone else's shows if they can't field a big enough demographic on their own--Asian people, for example. So, why confine your hatred to Friends? Or, as I asked myself a while back, why watch TV at all?
 
 
troy
16:48 / 26.01.02
Yes, yes, yes! I may not find any internet allies re: my feelings for Indiana Jones movies, but I'm glad to have found allies re: Friends. I HATE it! More venting later, when I have time...
 
 
Shortfatdyke
17:14 / 26.01.02
tempus - if you read through my posts, you'll see why i singled out 'friends'. i very rarely watch tv these days but was discussing this with another barbewoman and that's why i started the thread.

troy - yes, make time and rant. i look forward to it!
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
18:07 / 26.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Loz' Sweet Exile:
Re; Fatphobia. I watched the two-part 'what if' episode with my jaw on the floor thinking 'How do they get away with broadcasting this shit?' ...


Ah, that must be when they have Monica up in a huge fat suit, right? That pisses me off too. Yes, and this morbidly obese girl is now all of 87 lbs... yeah. Surely that wasn't from anorexia/bulimia, right?

The NYC of Friends bears no relation to reality at all whatsoever. If they said the show took place in LA, or even San Francisco, I think it would be easier to swallow. But nowhere in NYC is anything like the world on that show... and note that they don't even interact with the city, its people, its history...
 
 
DaveBCooper
22:41 / 26.01.02
Colour cynical old me amused to find this thread nestling close to a thread praising Eastenders. Reality takes a holiday equally in that show, after all.

Sorry to spoil things, but there HAVE been non-white characters in the show. Ross's oriental girlfriend Julie, his workmate Rhonda (whose breasts, she proudly told us, aren't real), and I'm sure there are others, so I think that the allegation that there aren't "any non-white people anywhere" is a bit of an exaggeration, surely ?

There may not be accurate representation, sure, but there isn't in a large number of shows (X-Files, Buffy, whatever). I'm not saying that's a good thing - quite the reverse - but I think it'd be better to have a go at the show for other reasons...

DBC
 
 
Persephone
23:25 / 26.01.02
Funnily enough, the few episodes of Friends that I watched were the Julie ones... I amused myself with pretending that the reason they would never accept her in their circle was because she was Asian.

And oy gevalt, this idea that LA is "whiter" than NY? Or do you mean *besides* all the Latinos and blacks and Asians? Believe me, LA doesn't look like LA on TV.
 
 
Tempus
23:28 / 26.01.02
quote:Originally posted by shortfatdyke:
tempus - if you read through my posts, you'll see why i singled out 'friends'.


Didn't mean to seem to ignore you--I just can't pass up a chance to plead with people not to watch TV. It may well be pathological.

[ 27-01-2002: Message edited by: Tempus ]
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
23:49 / 26.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Tempus:


Didn't mean to seem to ignore you--I just can't pass up a chance to plead with people not to watch TV. It may well be pathological.


It's more likely irrational and ignorant.

It always aggravates me when people who would otherwise be intelligent are quick to write off the entirety of television as worthless, and that all entertainment on it, past, present, and future is mindless crap - this is not true.

It's a broad, sweeping generalization about a communication medium and an artform that has just as many good and bad things going for it as anything else. It is unfair to write off all of the good content for the negative effects of the bad, and the culture which has been created in its aftermath.

Do you also think that comics are only for juvenile deliquints? Do you think that rock, hip hop, and jazz are all noise and racket?
Would you be so quick to write off the bulk of literature for the massive quantities of crap books out there? Do you ignore all films in reaction to all of the bad ones made? Surely you have no problems with the internet, in spite of the infinite sea of garbage on the web...

sigh.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
05:13 / 27.01.02
actually, i really don't have much access to tv since i moved (live with a mother and sprog - sprog seems to be totally in charge). this has been good - in that i've lost interest in watching crap for the sake of it, and the blare of the tv on next door all day in fact now grates on my nerves, but i have also noticed all the programmes i would really have liked to have seen and can't.
 
 
rizla mission
11:52 / 27.01.02
I massively dislike friends for all the reasons outlined above. Plus my traditional kneejerk hatred of everything that's bland & popular (you can mock stuff that's bland & not popular, and you can enjoy stuff that's popular and not bland - but both is unbearable).

Adding to my annoyance, the one or two episodes of this damn show I've seen had one or two decent gags showhorned into them at regular intervals - almost like they must have whole rooms full of gag writers working overtime to come up with pages of original one-liners which are then screened, sanitised and then 2 or 3 of them are then inserted strategically into each episode, allowing the producers maximum screentime for minimum joke-writing time whilst still officially maintaining 'funny' status - JOKES SHOULD BE TREATED WITH MORE RESPECT DAMN IT!
 
 
rizla mission
11:56 / 27.01.02
And the characters & performances are so non-existent they could surely cut back on costs by using ply-wood planks with pictures from fashion shoots pinned to them..
 
 
Fist Fun
12:00 / 27.01.02
Agree with all the points above, but I think it is the nature of the medium. It is well written though. Quite funny.
 
 
Tempus
19:28 / 27.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Flux = Makes Wack Irrelevant:

It always aggravates me when people who would otherwise be intelligent are quick to write off the entirety of television as worthless, and that all entertainment on it, past, present, and future is mindless crap - this is not true.


Well, I didn't say THAT, but I can see how I might have implied it.

There were lots of shows I liked on TV, and lots I didn't. What I mainly objected to was that zero-activity level blankness TV tended to induce, in me at least, and its addictive consumption of time I could have spent *doing* something, as compared to being broadcast to. I have several friends whose creative side is almost entirely quashed because they watch hours of TV a day, and I find their "can't miss this" attitude kind of disturbing in light of how little their lives are improved by not missing anything.

I'm sure it's possible to have a TV, watch only the best shows, live a happy and reality-based life and only be confused when other people rail against it as a cool medium, or the like. That's great--if you can manage it, I admire you. My route was just to forego the whole shebang, even if it meant never watching Star Trek again. I've felt much more efficient ever since. You're welcome to join my little kingdom of blithe media ignorance if you'd like--I enjoy it here--but if not, then not.

No big deal.

[ 27-01-2002: Message edited by: Tempus ]
 
 
The Natural Way
07:41 / 28.01.02
I have a chum who compares Buffy to Friends. This sickens me and makes me want to kill him.

Sick.

Kill.

Mate.
 
 
DaveBCooper
07:41 / 28.01.02
You might well compare Xander to Chandler (in more ways than just the name), and the similar way that plot-threads can run through the series, but I know which of the two shows is developing as it goes along, and which is diminishing…

DBC
 
 
The Natural Way
10:00 / 28.01.02
Xander is Bruce Campbell, but less weird. And that is that.
 
 
The Natural Way
10:01 / 28.01.02
They're both modular, but, comparison wise, that's about as far as it goes.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
10:09 / 28.01.02
quote:Originally posted by Mazarine:
I'm sure five, ten years from now, we'll all look back on it with the same horror with which we currently look back on "Full House."
Mock not the works of Bob Saget!

Um. Well, I get what everyone's saying. And I too think that it's a fucking annoying program: moreso because people have a tendency to suggest that I'm Chandler fucking Bing. It's been running for far too long - though I'm sure it'll soon be usurped by Sex In The City, only because it has a higher number of costume changes per scene.
 
 
Haus about we all give each other a big lovely huggle?
10:24 / 28.01.02
I have a confession to make.

Hello, my name is Tannhauser, and....I am a Friendsoholic.

Not that I watch it anymore, God knows. But you have to take it one day at a time.

After an awkward start, the first series seemed to be well-written, the characters engaging and the central narrative - Ross the wounded king, thrown out of his perfect life, starts fixating on the girl he could never have at High School as a kind of symbol of his entire adult life having come crashing down.

Then, Season 2, when Rachel improbably reciprocates, still seems to work if memory serves. Everyone is still sweet, and nice, and a bit confused about what is meant to be going on and, if I have this right, Tom Selleck turns up and, rather than doing a gimmicky "guest star" spot, sticks around and is worked into the plot. So far so good.

But then....well, nothing ever changes. Nobody is really allowed to suffer, or learn, or grow, so they just go through ridiculous "comic" events which become more and more desperate (from the social comedy of the "first launderette date" to "Oh, by the way, I only have one leg and my dad's Bruce Willis) becasue they are the *only* things that can be allowed to change. And for me it is when the formula gets tired and old and bankrupt that the fact that they live in an ethnically cleansed neverwhere (Julie is an obstacle, not a character, and "Ross' co-worker with the fake breasts" doesn't exactly sound like Rosa Parks) becomes more and more obvious.

Compare and contrast Buffy, which to a very great extent also has a cast of pretty middle-class white kids, but a) by acknowledging it as a function of the class structure of the town and the state (Mr. Trick pointing out that Sunnydale is "not exactly a haven for the brothers") and b) still being good, and being mutable enough to keep people thinking about what the programme has rather than what it lacks it gets away with it.
 
 
e-n
12:14 / 28.01.02
when it started friends was about characters, now it's about charicatures.Each of the cast has "become" their quirks.
Take away the quirkiness and theres nothing behind them anymore.

That said I haven't watched the show in over a year.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
12:26 / 28.01.02
re: Buffy vs. Friends

Oh, I think Friends is far better than Buffy...I really strongly dislike Buffy, and I'm really baffled what the lot of you folks, who are otherwise quite intelligent and tasteful, see in it. It's fucking awful! It's an artier Saved By The Bell or Beverly Hills 90120 with vampires, for fuck's sake....

[ 28-01-2002: Message edited by: Flux = Pop Cultural Ninja ]
 
 
Mazarine
12:31 / 28.01.02
Funny, I once had a dream of being Buffy and having to kill a pack of vampires made up the saved by the bell cast.

SFD, what's a sprog?

[ 28-01-2002: Message edited by: Mazarine ]
 
  

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