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All this Harry Potter is p*ssing me off

 
  

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Jimmy Turncoat
07:32 / 06.11.01
What's Alan Moore doing on all the posters for the Harry Potter film?
 
 
Wize Dragon
08:08 / 06.11.01
(Wet Heads)
I still think that people are not rubbing their brain cells together hard enough to even start to engage this thread with the level of understanding. Comments like Grumpy Bunny, and Its no different from other films, offer no philisophical or intellectual debate.
Here is a reason for my disgust and contempt for the Harry Potter film: The film has cost lots of money to make and is no running around theatre to theatre taking money off of people, in exchange for what?
The film if analysed through marketing is not a cinematic rendering of an adaptation of a well written and clever childs book, but more a glorified advert for the range of merchandise that is following. Its a piece of promotion.
I dislike the idea that Britain has gone mental over our great culture being made into a film, when in fact I doubt that many British companies are going to make lots of money. I hate the Disneyesque way that British culture is being exploited and reduced to a meaningless pool of drivvle.
There are plenty of worthy artists and philosophers who are left in the dark due to the rabid marketting machine, picking up dumbed down texts that are made solely to make money. I don't agree with this, I am shocked that this is getting worse as we enter the 21st Century, supposedly a time of information, not ignorance.
A Harry Potter coin comment earlier, that no-one appeared to pick up on (shame), is symbolic (everyone understand symbol systems) Harry Potter = cash.
Right lets see what this will provoke, and again, spend a little time engaging both side of your brtain before writing.
PEACE
 
 
QUINT
08:38 / 06.11.01
Okay, Bunny, lets look at a few things, shall we?

quote:The film has cost lots of money to make and is no running around theatre to theatre taking money off of people, in exchange for what?Exactly what the books produced in many readers. Uncomplicated joy. We can argue about whether that's a good thing later, if you like.

quote:The film if analysed through marketing is not a cinematic rendering of an adaptation of a well written and clever childs book, but more a glorified advert for the range of merchandise that is following. A fatuous thing to say. The qualitative judgement preceeds the analysis - you decide to look at the film in terms of marketing and discover that it markets things. You stun me with your intellectual rigour and perception.

quote:I dislike the idea that Britain has gone mental over our great culture being made into a film, when in fact I doubt that many British companies are going to make lots of money.Whereas I am delighted to see that we are still capable of enthusiasm. Usually we rip people apart for success. And this has been happening to Rowling - there was a filthy article in one of the tabloids the other day. Probably ad hominem if she cares to pursue it. And why will no British companies make money? Because our moneyfolk do not care to invest in film. The City has fortunes to spend; if they wanted to give the UK industry the kind of money Hollywood gets, they could. They choose not to, so screw them.

quote:I hate the Disneyesque way that British culture is being exploited and reduced to a meaningless pool of drivvle.I take it you have solved the long-argued question of what constitutes culture then. Thank God someone has. Do tell.

quote:I am shocked that this is getting worse as we enter the 21st Century, supposedly a time of information, not ignorance.Information is not knowledge. Nor is knowledge wisdom or capability or intellectual integrity.

quote:Right lets see what this will provoke, and again, spend a little time engaging both side of your brtain before writing.Physician, heal thyself. Earlier description annotated: Grumpy moron shouting bunny.

And please stop putting 'peace' at the end of your idiot ranting. It's like some ghastly new age televangelist demanding death to abortionists and then invoking Jesus.
 
 
Wize Dragon
08:38 / 06.11.01
(The heat is on)
Whilst you may see Uncomplicated Joy is in this text, I challenge this and suppose that it is merely distraction. A break in the rather annoying and tedious reality inwhich we can find ourselves. Much like a Soap Opera and a Lifestyle magazine.

To clarify my earlier comment, I point out that the movie in my mind is advertising. Much like syndicated cartoons such as He Man and the Power Rangers. I think Mr Lucas would have to agree that alot of his fortune has been derived from the merchandise of the Star Wars franchise. His change in film style also indicates this marketing over film appraoch to cinema. (Jah Jah Binks)


The way inwhich the British economy does not engage in the finacial backing of indigenous cinema merely points out the amount of American money being used to aquire media. I would like to see a policy to match that of France, with regards to cinema and media in general in this country. Their cultural texts are remade in the US rather than hijacked.

Culture, yes I do think I have a angle on it. Wouldn't it be made up of historical reference, mythology and folklore. I think I could take much time in describing the rich and vivid texture of Albions culture, but thats not really necessary, is it?

Wisdom in relation to information.
Now this is where I am confused to the earlier statement. I thought that information, becomes knowledge and knowledge results in wisdom. Its all a case of activated information. Without information to ones senses, one would be in the dark or oblivious to the world around. Oh hold on thats what some of the shaved monkeys want us shaved monkeys to be.

It can be seen that it is rather excessive to be railing on at the Harry Potter movie, but for me it has become the last straw on the donkeys back, with regard to Moral Hipocrisy and materialism. It could be used as a key text with which to unravel the (to my mind) perverse media economy, that hides behind the welfare of our children, much like McDonalds.

As for the personal insults, I am amused. Humour banishes negativity, thus PEACE is used to let others know that I do not wish people harm, but obviously I am not allowed to continue this practice, passed onto me by a Mayan mystery school I trained with or the my fellow Hip Hop fans, who through the lessons of Afrika Bambaata, attempt to tame agression in the male psyche.

PEACE (or is that an ironic staement)

[ 06-11-2001: Message edited by: Wize Dragon ]
 
 
QUINT
08:38 / 06.11.01
quote:Whilst you may see Uncomplicated Joy is in this text, I challenge this and suppose that it is merely distraction.Challenge away. Then go ask a nine-year-old, who may well be willing to explain it to you.

quote:I point out that the movie in my mind is advertising.In your mind, indeed. You've already decided, then you go look at the film. Thank you, "outraged" of North London. quote:I think Mr Lucas would have to agree that alot of his fortune has been derived from the merchandise of the Star Wars franchise.ROTFL quote:The way in which the British economy does not engage in the finacial backing of indigenous cinema merely points out the amount of American money being used to aquire media.News for ya, sparky: lots of that 'American money' is European. Lots of French money in US film. Lots of Middle Eastern money. But here in the UK where we have a tonne of cash, we choose not to invest in film. It's not because we can't match the Yank Banks, Bunny, it's because we don't want to be in a messy, nasty area like filmmaking. quote:Culture, yes I do think I have a angle on it. Wouldn't it be made up of historical reference, mythology and folklore. I think I could take much time in describing the rich and vivid texture of Albions culture, but thats not really necessary, is it?Please, don't. So there's none of that in Harry Potter, then? And if you pinch folklore, that's somehow not the same as lifting more recent references? But what in all Heckdom is 'Albion'? Some neo-Arthurian Romantic construct in your noggin?

quote:It can be seen that it is rather excessive to be railing on at the Harry Potter movie, but for me it has become the last straw on the donkeys back, with regard to Moral Hipocrisy and materialism. Whereas I'd take your response as a prime example of intellectual monstro-analysis sucking the vital juice from the Lifeworld. And do please explain a little more about this moral hypocrisy.

quote:Humour banishes negativity, thus PEACE is used to let others know that I do not wish people harm, but obviously I am not allowed to continue this practiceYou may not wish harm, but I think you may inflict it. Your desire to tame the male psyche has merely transfered violence to your analytical knife with which you probe the innards of culture. But do as you please. I can't control your actions or disallow them. Keep on writing 'peace' if that's what you want to do. I'll try not to shudder when I read it.
 
 
The Natural Way
10:44 / 06.11.01
Yeah, all that "peace" and "Albion" business is really starting to make me cringe.
 
 
reidcourchie
10:56 / 06.11.01
Wize can I assume by your comments that you boycott all mainstream media?

And I was quite serious about what you think I should read/watch. Instead of making vague suggestions about poets and culture, give us some solid examples of artists that have managed to avoid this vicious capitalist trap.

Whilst I find it amazing that you are able to critique a film you haven't seen of a book you haven't read on cultural terms I am even more impressed at your ability to see into the minds of children. I on the other hand cannot but I do know the sense of wonder I had watching the Star Wars films on the cinema (all of which were heavily merchandised, this isn't a new trick) and that the Return of the Jedi was very influential in me learning to read.

All you general comment on the commercial aspects of film can be equally applied to any other mainstream film, all kids films are very heavily merchandised. I'm not saying this is right (though god knows I do like some of the merchandising) why focus on Harry Potter?

And as for personal insults if you adopted less of preachy attitude and actually substantiated some of your arguments perhaps they might happen less.

I won't tell you not to put peace at the end of each post but I do think it makes you look like a wanker.
 
 
rizla mission
13:18 / 06.11.01
quote:Originally posted by Jimmy Turncoat:
What's Alan Moore doing on all the posters for the Harry Potter film?


That's what occured to me in the cinema the other day.

"Look!," I said to my companion, "Alan Moore!"
"Who the hell is Alan Moore?" my companion responded, and I looked at the ground in disgust.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
13:41 / 06.11.01
It's not Alan Moore. That's Rasputin that is. I thought he was dead....
 
 
Bear
13:54 / 06.11.01
I just choked on my Harry Potter Lego, lucky the office medic had a Harry Potter medical kit.....

Poor Harry wonder what he thinks about all this malarky
 
 
John Adlin
16:50 / 06.11.01
Well this seems to be a real hornest nest.
I for one am looking forward to the film.
At least it won't have Jar Jar Binks in it.


CONFLICT (but only verbal mind expanding arguments mind)

[ 06-11-2001: Message edited by: Kamakazie Returns ]
 
 
Saint Keggers
01:12 / 07.11.01
Just to let you all know The next book will be titled Happy Harry Potter and Gungan Gloom.

Reidcourchie; you're making sense again! We'll 'ave none of that 'ere! (he types in his best Dick Van Dyke accent)


PIECE!
 
 
Cat Chant
06:47 / 07.11.01
I wrote an article on the books, which is here (on the Barbelith webzine.)

Intellectual enough forya? It mentions Derrida and everything...

Having said which, I spent an enjoyable 3 hours playing the Harry Potter board game (slash version) last weekend and am looking forward to the film, though the 50-foot poster by Gauda Prime spaceport is taking it a bit far (My friend Dave: "But children shouldn't be so big! It's unnatural!"). Will be cryptofascist tosh, but so are most things.
 
 
Wize Dragon
08:46 / 07.11.01
Well,
It seems that I should not have a go at the merchandising of this film, for it rocks the boat. There is no need to give a list of films that employ more cerebal concepts and ideas, and have less merchandise invested.

It appears that some people have little to no real interest in the economic and political side of Film, but some of us do. Defend the little Wizard and his reading age of 9 material, defend the faddish way inwhich we consume the most cliched elements of our sanitised culture.

If one is not interested in the nasty industry of film-making then why bother posting on this message board, whats all the heat about?

Albion for those who would like to know, was the one of the original names fro Britain, prior to the dominant use of Britain. Albion transltes to 'White Cliffs'

Harry Potter's cultural viewpoint is a bastardised representation of repressive and murderous propoganda from the Inquisition. Wizards and Broom sticks. Is it still necessary to adopt such ignorant symbols and archetypes and continue their proliforation.

Harry Potter is singled out in this thread due to the excessive campaign of hype and sales. It will come to represent all that is wrong with the british Film Industry and movies for toys/lunchboxes etc. Have you not thought what pressure it will put parents who have limited resources for CHristmas presents, to achieve their childs satisfactory Potter saturation.

Come to think of it has anyone thopught for a moment how these toys are being made, the cheap labour, the enviromental issues of plastic etc. Not to single Harry Potter out, but this film will result in the largest merchandise campaign ever.
Think of it this way, if you like the books, isn't it a pity that they will become somewhat cheapened by the faddish nature of hype. 4years time, who is Harry Potter?

As for the comment about my angry ego, well without fuel for thought , there would be no line of investigation, no questioning, no demonstration. If my words embaress me then they embaress me. What need is there to keep with the stylish and cool elite within this site?

Too engage a discussion or arguement on a personal note denounces the true reason for debate, and expresses an acute self consciousness. One could ask, 'whats the matter?'

I am disappointed that self styled counter culture, subversive expressionists can be so defensive over our consumerist society. I thought that The Invisbles would have fed the mentality to question and distrupt the norm. I hope I am wrong.

This thread started as a glibbish reaction to econmic-politics in the media. The constant overt and covert advertising jangling round my brain.
We are subjected to 400+ advertisments a day, and have little time or info to know what these meme's are doing to us, our personalities and decision making. If the Harry Potter campaign doesn't appear to be one of these pollutants, then what is?

PEACE, LOVE, UNITY & HAVING FUN
 
 
Wize Dragon
08:49 / 07.11.01
Thats not Alan Moore it's WIZARD.
 
 
reidcourchie
08:49 / 07.11.01
Lets destroy Christmas.

Cuz' that would be like really subversive wouldn't it.

[ 07-11-2001: Message edited by: reidcourchie ]
 
 
QUINT
08:49 / 07.11.01
quote:It seems that I should not have a go at the merchandising of this film, for it rocks the boat.Ooooh, pack up the car, kids we're a goin' on a guilt trip...

I don't agree with you, so I'm either censoring you or I'm a reactionary, is that it?

quote:There is no need to give a list of films that employ more cerebal concepts and ideas, and have less merchandise invested.This would, indeed, be totally irrelevant. We're making progress.

quote:It appears that some people have little to no real interest in the economic and political side of Film, but some of us do.That's just it. It's a 'side'. Not the whole thing. And you keep on with this prejudgement about what is and what is not an appropriate way to discuss the film. Take a leaf from Deva's book, and be prepared to notice multiple (and relative) readings.

quoteefend the little Wizard and his reading age of 9 materialI shall. Kids' stuff is amongst the hardest and best creative endevours.

quote:defend the faddish way inwhich we consume the most cliched elements of our sanitised culture.Nope. But nor will I lose my sense of perspective. And you persist with your conviction that you know what constitutes culture, what is 'good' or 'high' culture and what is not. Who died and made you a moral absolute?

quote:If one is not interested in the nasty industry of film-making then why bother posting on this message board, whats all the heat about?If all you're interested in is destroying the myth, why do you restrict yourself to easy targets? Why not go after a few of your own closely-held illusions? Do you think a world exclusively composed of 'high' culture, your approved and liberated myths would be any fun? Take a look at Soviet-era approved writing and tell me again...

quote:Albion for those who would like to know, was the one of the original names fro Britain, prior to the dominant use of Britain. Albion transltes to 'White Cliffs'References, please. And what does it mean in this context? Are you using it as an alternative to 'Britain' to signify a departure from 'British' culture, or a notional pre-British ethos, or does it mean something entirely different which you might wish to explain?

quote:Harry Potter's cultural viewpoint is a bastardised representation of repressive and murderous propoganda from the Inquisition. Wizards and Broom sticks. Is it still necessary to adopt such ignorant symbols and archetypes and continue their proliforation.You wouldn't by any chance be a Wiccan? You know that the Christian Right loathes and fears the Potter books, yes?

quote:this film will result in the largest merchandise campaign ever.Until the next fad. And since the work is not complete, we don't know exactly what the ethos of the Potter books will be. They're becomig darker and more interesting as they go along. Wouldn't it be funny if they got more like us than the opposition (whoever the hell that is)?

quote:Think of it this way, if you like the books, isn't it a pity that they will become somewhat cheapened by the faddish nature of hype.Will they? How?

quote:4years time, who is Harry Potter?Oh, yeah, like 'Who is Frodo?' and 'Who is Winnie the Pooh?' you mean? Riiiight.

quote:I am disappointed that self styled counter culture, subversive expressionists can be so defensive over our consumerist society.Polar politics is drivel. Think, think, think. That was what the Invisibles was all about. We are them. They are us. Remember? What was particularly sick about 'The Matrix'? All those people Neo kills are real people. Even the Agents use human bodies...every time he shoots, one of us dies...King Mob knew. Neo never cared.

The products of consumer culture you so despise are not inherently evil, nor can we disown the consumer cultre of which we are a part. Even if it falls, it will still be part of us. As soon as we deny that, we'll put something equally godawful in its place.

quote:I thought that The Invisbles would have fed the mentality to question and distrupt the norm.You see your own reflection in the Invisibles. Try to stretch yourself a little more.

quote:If the Harry Potter campaign doesn't appear to be one of these pollutants, then what is?The campaign is not the film. The hype is not the artefact. The intent is not the effect.

Think outside the box.
 
 
Bear
08:49 / 07.11.01
Lets leave lil Harry alone..it'll probably get more kids interested in magick - and thats gotta be a good thing, right?

If people enjoy it what's the problem, the merchandising is nothing new, I was a happy bear when I got my Skeletor figure never did have alot of the Star wars ones though although my cousin did...awww precious memories
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:02 / 07.11.01
Just to give a slightly different spin on things: Wize Dragon, I actually share your annoyance with the hype that's surrounding the release of the first Harry Potter film. Equally, I find it more than a little frustrating when so many otherwise intelligent people around my age seem to think that reading these books is somehow de rigeur - I really wish they'd read Philip Pullman's Dark Materials trilogy instead, for example (and I wish the slightly older kids were too), which is another supposed children's fantasy that's thrillingly written, and actually presents all sorts of strange and wonderful ideas in an accessible way. The main reason I won't be going to see the film, and I doubt I'll be reading the books anytime soon either, is that there are simply too many other things to see/read first.

However, you don't seem to be able to break these things down. Your argument seems to be Potter hype = bad, therefore Potter film = bad, therefore Potter books = bad. In fact, these are three related but ultimately distinct arguments. And I doubt many people really disagree with the first one. We could discuss the latter two anytime, but I suggest that before we do so, you (and I) would have to see the film, and/or read the book first. Deva's article for the zine, which ought to suggest that we're not all the unquestioning Rowling acolytes you take us for, is based on such knowledge.

But if it your main beef is with the hype and the merchandising and the commercial element of the film-making and distribution process... well, I think you'd be better not limiting your argument to this single film/franchise. This is even more true if you're taking issue with passive consumerism, franchises, or evencapitalism in general, as some of your comments suggest. I find it a bit odd that you've chosen Harry Potter as the touchstone and launchpad for a whole host of arguments that includes subject matter that would probably fit in better in The Switchboard forum (it's a bit quiet over there these days), or even the Head Shop. You'll find that many people agree with you on the issues that you feel the Harry Potter phenomenon is symptomatic of (for example, I don't agree by any means with a lot of what Passionate Nature of Newts is saying - but it would take things hopelessly off-topic if I took hir up on it here).

P.S. Your apparent belief that the failure of enough people to agree with you in this thread indicates that you've "rocked the boat" on this board in a way unlike no-one before you - it's just ridiculous. Read some past threads, for Christ's sake.
 
 
mondo a-go-go
10:17 / 07.11.01
quote:Originally posted by Wize Dragon:
PEACE, LOVE, UNITY & HAVING FUN


what, like all the fans of harry potter who gather together? uniting to share a love of something that they find fun? peacefully, at that.
 
 
Shortfatdyke
10:57 / 07.11.01
a couple of observations, from one who hasn't read a word of harry potter (tho the grandson of a woman at work very nearly played him in the film - about as close as i've got):

1. seen in the press reports that UK teaching union ATL are warning teachers not to let the sproglets get too involved in potter/'sinister' occult stuff. sprogs are fascinated by magic/the occult anyway, it's certainly not a bad thing but this makes me glad i work for a 'hard' teachers union (!).

2. i am being taken to the english language preview of potter when i go to berlin in a couple of weeks. i am trying to keep an open mind on it, tho i doubt it'll be as good as 'the worst witch' (!!).
 
 
moriarty
11:59 / 07.11.01
quote:Originally posted by Flyboy:
The main reason I won't be going to see the film, and I doubt I'll be reading the books anytime soon either, is that there are simply too many other things to see/read first.


"I'd love to, really, but I've got a pile of books I want to read up to my eyeballs. Tell, you what. We'll trade off. Harry Potter for War and Peace... No?"

So, I work at this bookstore. Harry Potter books are easily, obviously, the top selling books of all time in the store. Goblet of Fire, in four hours, sold more copies than any other bestseller (Harry excepted) had sold in two years. Astounding.

I haven't read them. I'm the only one at work who hasn't. I don't really care about the movie, either. Same goes for the Lord of the Rings. Where's my damn Conan movie? So I don't have much of an informed opinion on the material, though I do usually go a long way in explaining to parents why Harry is the antichrist.

I think anyone who's not a shut-in can have an opinion on the phenomenon, though. I will say this, it's even more obvious to someone who sees it almost every day that this book is promoting reading to a huge extent. I mean, more than you could believe. I can't tell you how many kids who have never read before are now not only reading the Potter, but once they've read their copies into oblivion, move onto something different. Redwall, The Hobbit, Lemony Snicket's books, etc. And from there into even odder material.

Factor in that many adults read the series, and you have something which children and parents can share. The only bad thing I can see about the whole of it is that for all the kids who move onto something new, there's an equal number who aren't satisfied with anything that isn't specifically Harry. Shame.

So, yeah, Harry=good. I still won't read the fuckers though. Goddamn antichrist.
 
 
QUINT
12:03 / 07.11.01
quote:Flyboy writes: I really wish they'd read Philip Pullman's Dark Materials trilogy insteadLiked it, although not nearly as much. It's very dark, and it's got a lot of heavyweight Christian cogitation, which irks me. It's finally quite depressing and oddly 'realistic'.

It's also quite overtly a 'coming of age' series, which I disliked as a child and still find annoying. But as you say, very good stuff.
 
 
tSuibhne
13:18 / 07.11.01
quote:Originally posted by moriarty:
this book is promoting reading to a huge extent. I mean, more than you could believe. I can't tell you how many kids who have never read before are now not only reading the Potter, but once they've read their copies into oblivion, move onto something different. Redwall, The Hobbit, Lemony Snicket's books, etc. And from there into even odder material.


I've got to second this. I know two kids who're obsessed with Potter. My cousin and a friend's kid.

My mom and aunt are now taking great pleasure and pulling out all their old dusty fantasy books, from when they were younger, and feeding them to my cousin, who appears to be eating them up like they were pixie sticks. He's already gone through all the Harry books, Lord of the Rings, and is currently working on the Dragons of Pern, thanks to my mom. Personally, I'm thinking of throwing the kid more sci-fi stuff. May be the Ender books or some Philip K. Dick. Also giving serious thought to throwing him Lord of Light.

As for my friend's kid? Well, he never had a chance. His mom (my friend) is a member of the sci-fi/fantasy group in Portland. The kids gone through all the Potter books, Lord of the Rings, and last I heard is working on Wizard of EarthSea. I'm sure by now he's done that and has moved onto some other classic fantasy novel.

Will this turn that generation into a bunch of sci-fi/fantasy freaks? Nope. Has sci-fi/fantasy just gotten a great boost in it's ranks? Yeah.
 
 
deja_vroom
13:31 / 07.11.01
quote:By reidcourchie: and that the Return of the Jedi was very influential in me learning to read.


Anyway, you're a strong person, I bet you'll overcome that.
 
 
Chuckling Duck
14:18 / 07.11.01
quote:Originally posted by I Am:
...I'm thinking of throwing the kid more sci-fi stuff. Maybe the Ender books or some Philip K. Dick. Also giving serious thought to throwing him Lord of Light.


Ender's Game is popular with pre-teen and teen boys, as is Seventh Son, also by Card. I'd give him Adams before Dick or Zelazny, though. The humor of Hitchhiker and the rest sugarcoats some marvelously subversive material.
 
 
Chuckling Duck
14:46 / 07.11.01
quote:Originally posted by Wize Dragon:
We are subjected to 400+ advertisments a day, and have little time or info to know what these meme's are doing to us, our personalities and decision making. If the Harry Potter campaign doesn't appear to be one of these pollutants, then what is?


From a memetic viewpoint, Potter publicity and other marketing hype might actually be good for kids’ critical facilities. If a kid gets sucked in by a massive ad campaign for Stinkimon III: the Fleecing, sees the movie and realizes that it sucks, that kid has learned a valuable lesson in judgement with relatively few bad consequences. Exposure to a wide variety of memes seems to build an immunity against identity-consuming memes like fundamentalist religions, rabid nationalism and selling Amway. Marketing contains the seeds of its own defeat in the increasingly skeptical minds of its audience.
 
 
Hush
15:50 / 07.11.01
Youngest daughter is now having Harry Potter as a bedtime story. At five she loves it. And I enjoy reading it, it reads aloud good, some books do, some books don't. 'The Hobbit' doesn't for instance. There is a kind of snobbery about children's literature that meant that for year's Roal Dahl was derided and now mainstream 7-12 year old school fodder. It was derided in the way that we are hearing now :- ''badly written' - 'weak dialogue' 'unbelievable situations' .

And some books are just peurile crap ('The Homefarm twins', 'The babysitter club')

The film is not the book, but the film is hardly ever the book. One of the remarkable things about 'A Clockwork Orange' was it was a good film and a good book; but still not the same. I won't say more about the film coz I haven't seen it. And if I didn't have kids I wouldn't bother seeing it , but I am going to see it, and it's bound to be better than Disney Pap, and maybe as much fun as Shreck.

And fuck the hype. I know that shit is there to entrap stupid people, so I ignore it. I certainly wouldn't let it form my opinion either for or against. If you are irritated by it, it's because you've noticed it. Tune it out.

And if you've got kids recognize that Disney is there to help the young 'uns understand that evil people wish to exploit them. It's a hard battle but worthwhile.

So I'm for Harry Potter, But sympathize with those who hate the hype. Enjoy if you can, read aloud to small people given the chance, ignore it if you can't.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
15:51 / 07.11.01
quote:Originally posted by Wize Dragon:
It can be seen that it is rather excessive to be railing on at the Harry Potter movie, but for me it has become the last straw on the donkeys back, with regard to Moral Hipocrisy and materialism.


OK, I may have more to say when I've finished reading the rest of this thread, but please explain to me the moral hypocrisy (sorry, Moral Hipocrisy [sic]) in Harry Potter. Your bone of contention seems to be a rather pathetic retread of the 'it can't be good because it's populist' argument, never a good idea. If we were talking about a movie adaptation of No Logo and were talking about no logo sweats or cola I'd see your point, but I don't see the relevence in THIS debate.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
16:14 / 07.11.01
quote:Originally posted by Wize Dragon:
Well,
It seems that I should not have a go at the merchandising of this film, for it rocks the boat.

The typical opening phrase of someone who realises they are loosing the argument and are feeling a bit sore about it.

quote:
Harry Potter's cultural viewpoint is a bastardised representation of repressive and murderous propoganda from the Inquisition. Wizards and Broom sticks. Is it still necessary to adopt such ignorant symbols and archetypes and continue their proliforation.


What, so you want Harry Potter using broomsticks in their proper context then.
'"Now girls," Said Professor Sillyname sternly, "When you have smeared the potion on to the end of the broomsticks start rubbing them slowly against your vaginas. Boys, have you masturbated over your sigils yet? Draco Malfoy, show me your hands!"'

quote:
Harry Potter is singled out in this thread due to the excessive campaign of hype and sales. It will come to represent all that is wrong with the british Film Industry and movies for toys/lunchboxes etc. Have you not thought what pressure it will put parents who have limited resources for CHristmas presents, to achieve their childs satisfactory Potter saturation.


So you are working on the 'too much merchandise= crap film' angle then. Would it change your mind if I said that J.K. Rowling refused any and all merchandising when she had sole control over Harry Potter and that she deplores the merchandising for this film, all of which is under Warner Bros. control in the fine print of the contract?

quote:
Come to think of it has anyone thopught for a moment how these toys are being made, the cheap labour, the enviromental issues of plastic etc. Not to single Harry Potter out, but this film will result in the largest merchandise campaign ever.


Oh really? Bigger than Trek? Bigger than Star Wars? Bigger than the Spice Girls? I think if you compared Harry Potter is nowhere near them.

quote:
Think of it this way, if you like the books, isn't it a pity that they will become somewhat cheapened by the faddish nature of hype. 4 years time, who is Harry Potter?


And this is relevent to the argument how? If I like the books (which I do) what does it matter what other people think in four years time? And if I'm currently just into the 'fad' of Harry potter then in four years (or six months) time I'll be in to something else so won't care anyway. And not all fads blow over. Some stay to become part of a countries culture. Harry Potter has been around for around four years already.

quote:
As for the comment about my angry ego, well without fuel for thought , there would be no line of investigation, no questioning, no demonstration. If my words embaress me then they embaress me. What need is there to keep with the stylish and cool elite within this site?


Bwahahahahaha! Sorry.

quote:
Too engage a discussion or arguement on a personal note denounces the true reason for debate, and expresses an acute self consciousness. One could ask, 'whats the matter?'


Oh sorry, I missed the thread where it was decided that you would define how discussions on the B.U. would run.

quote:
I am disappointed that self styled counter culture, subversive expressionists can be so defensive over our consumerist society.


Someone has read 'the Invisibles' but decided to ignore the bit about how 'us' and 'them' is a myth haven't they? And show me when I declared myself to be a 'self styled counter culture, subversive expressionist' please, I don't recall.

quote:
I thought that The Invisbles would have fed the mentality to question and distrupt the norm. I hope I am wrong.


Another sign of tetchiness in the face of losing an argument. We can, if we choose, question the norm. That does not mean we have to. It does not mean we must attack anything popular. We have the freedom to choose. We have the freedom to decide that we 'fucking love Big Brother'. I love the fact Harry Potter makes kids read again, and I see no harm in the Harry Potter movie (which is not to say I agree with the merchandising, but you're using the merchandising as an excuse to attack the film, which is seperate).
 
 
Cop Killer
17:38 / 07.11.01
quote:Originally posted by Wize Dragon:
the point.
This is a film for no reason, except for making money, and before your 'liberal' views say 'Well what else do you expect?'. Know that I am tired of money making crap hitting the cinema, and selling Coca Cola to kids.
[ 04-11-2001: Message edited by: Wize Dragon ]


You know, I read this interesting article on how films are made to make money in No Shit magazine last month, apparently that's how capitalism works...
Alrite, I know you're tired of "money making crap" but, still, what the fuck did you expect? Did you think the industry's gonna go: "Oh, shit, this Wize Dragon guy on some comic book message board doesn't like the way we run business, perhaps we should change now and not let major American companies invest in us." Malarky indeed.
 
 
Cherry Bomb
19:10 / 07.11.01
I'll post more about this tommorrow but this attitude really makes me mad and I just have to get in a few cents before I cash in a $20 tomorrow.

. I have no idea how someone can slag off on something that ENCOURAGES PEOPLE TO READ!!!

AAARGH!!

I haven’t read the “Harry Potter” books and truth be told the hype – and that damn kid- annoy the fuck out of me, and I have the sneaking suspicion that “Harry Fever” is being pushed on the masses in order to distract us from the current world situation.

THAT SAID, I would just love to know how you explain to a NINE YEAR OLD that the reading of her favorite books in the world is a distraction and the continued proliferation of media commercialization on her life. How could you dare to do that?

Most people who know me tell me I read more than anyone else THEY know. I LOVE to read and my reading material varies from Mary Daley’s feminist critique of the Catholic Church to Kitty Kelley’s biography of Nancy Reagan. I’m just me and I can’t speak for everyone – but I think I would’ve probably sat down, started crying, and considered myself a serious loser if you’d told me I was wasting my time with those “Nancy Drew,” “Mary Poppins” and “Little House on the Prairie” books I loved at at that age. I think you would have ended up actually discouraging me from making my own choices in reading material – and isn’t that kind of something your looking to prevent?

Whatever. I don’t have time to put together a coherent and effective argument right now, and I too in essence wish you peace, Wize, but on behalf of nine-year-old “Harry Potter” lovers and young reading enthusiasts everywhere I say to you, “FUCK OFF!”
 
 
Cat Chant
20:58 / 07.11.01
quote:Originally posted by Lozt Cause:
'"Now girls," Said Professor Sillyname sternly, "When you have smeared the potion on to the end of the broomsticks start rubbing them slowly against your vaginas. Boys, have you masturbated over your sigils yet? Draco Malfoy, show me your hands!"'


How do you rub something *against* a vagina? Do you mean 'vulva'? Or 'inside your vaginas'?

Deva, President of the Campaign for the More Accurate Representation of and Vocabulary For The Female Genitals.
 
 
Saint Keggers
01:50 / 08.11.01
Actually, if you angle the broom just right...um...never mind..cold shower time.

hey Lozt..I loved your version...xxx fan fic forum? (however I will not be reading it to my younger cousin at bed time...or any other time.)
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
13:37 / 09.11.01
quote:Originally posted by Deva:

How do you rub something *against* a vagina? Do you mean 'vulva'? Or 'inside your vaginas'?


I was in a hurry, I was drunk... oh hang on, that's from the wrong excuse file...
 
  

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