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Underground > Comic Books >

COMIC BOOK CLUB: Watchmen and beyond

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18:56 / 22.03.04

Birdie - why start cerebus with going home? Surely the first volume or High society are far better places to start...

18:59 / 22.03.04

Going Home? Even I didn't read half of that! Not many people will be able to stomach the Gellhorn-bashing. If we go for Cerebus at all, I'd go for High Society or Jaka's Story. Hell, even Women would do, but any further along and it's pretty hard for anyone who isn't already a fan not to be turned off straight away.
Is EFF really that good? I still think Watchmen has enough meat on it to pick over. There's only one superhero in it, and even he's not much of a hero.
I think NXM has been ground into dust too recently here for us to be able to step back from it enough for an outsider-friendly discussion. You want joycore? How about Sugar Buzz?
Sausage
Wausage
Sausage
Wausage
Sausage
Wausage
Sausage
Wausage
Sausage
Wausage
...Nausage.

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

19:01 / 22.03.04

I guess I voted for Going Home just to avoid the sense that "Oh yeah, he was good, as opposed to he is good. Going Home is also probably just his most narratively audacious and beautiful book.

But, yes. Essential Fantastic Four!

Yotsuba & Benjamin!

19:09 / 22.03.04

I'd so much rather chew over something that's not dependent on the tarot or memes or all the other validly interesting but occasionally preponderous (is that a word?) topics that all too frequently constitute most of the comics discussion around here. I think that Mole Men and giant planet swallowing purple folks are just as interesting, even if they don't necessarily represent branches on the Quaballic tree of life. Or anything that starts with a Q, actually. (Especially Qlippoth).

Not to mention the fact that Stan and Jack's FF was really the root of all comics being produced today, whether highbrow or low. FF begat Spider-Man and Spider-Man begat every nebbish comics autobiography ever written.

FUN.

Matthew Fluxington

19:34 / 22.03.04

I have almost no interest in Persepolis' subject matter. I can't justify the expense. I'm sure that it's nice; I'd definitely read it if I had a lot of time to kill and it was for free.

19:45 / 22.03.04

Persepolis is very good, but I concur with the expense issue. I do recall that Going Home gave me my first Cerebus laugh in years.

20:11 / 22.03.04

How much is Persepolis in the States? Surely no more than your average OGN book?

I appreciate not wanting to pay for a comic you are not really interested in, but isn't part of the point of this thread is to get readers, both traditional comic fans and comics new-comers alike to try new stuff and discuss their reactions to it - you might even be pleasently surprized.

BTW how available are GNs in libraries accross the states at the moment? In the UK you can get most things either off the shelf, through interlibrary loan or ordered through the library. This could well be a a way to get round having to buy comics...

Matthew Fluxington

20:26 / 22.03.04

I really don't have the budget right now to be dropping over $10 on something that I really have low expectations for. It'd be different if it was something new that I thought I'd have a lot of fun with. I fully expect Persepolis to sit on my bookshelf next to about five or six other trade paperbacks that I really can't bring myself to finish because I didn't have the interest.

How about something really fun?

20:45 / 22.03.04

Fun? What's could be more fun than attempting to claim Michael Jackson is the leader of Muslims in America or sneaking iron maiden posters into Iran?

But yeah, I'm up for fun comics - sugar buzz is a good recomendation, I've also recently enjoyed Peanutbutter and Jeremy's best book ever and reread Squee and JTHM with much fun.

Matthew Fluxington

20:59 / 22.03.04

What's Sugar Buzz all about? I haven't heard about it.

21:10 / 22.03.04

Its a sort of rediscovery of pure joy and fun in comics, influenced by hana barbara cartoons, done by a pair of British colaborators, Ian Carney and Woodrow Pheonix and published through Slave Labour. Here's a sugarbuzz review,

21:46 / 22.03.04

Unfortunately the collection is now OP. A spin off "Where's it at, Sugar Kat?" should be available in your local shop.

"Kids! Don't hypnotise lions! Why? Just Don't!"

21:48 / 22.03.04

I feel a fun comics thread coming on. What about Bizarro Comics? They am stoopid. btw the reference I made earlier about Watchmen is that in issue 2 there is a cabinet labelled "King Mob Mask" with a gorilla head in it..

14:20 / 23.03.04

Persepolis is hardly that interesting, I'm not even sure I can give it a second read. I need an excuse to David Boring a close read so that would be a good choice.

16:47 / 23.03.04

But, barring that, my vote is with Essential Fantastic Four. This board needs more FUN.

I'm down with EFF for sure. I've been intending to order a copy for a while anyway.

17:20 / 23.03.04

How about something without superheroes? Or, making a compromise, a comic without DEPRESSED superheroes? Something a bit more Joycore would be fantabulous.

I like this idea, and in particular the "Joycore" formulation, enough that I'm going to start a new thread on it...

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

17:27 / 23.03.04

If we go with a FF Essential, we should go with the second or third one. The first one is OK, but it really wasn't until Joe Sinnott started inking Kirby that the series took off, in my mind. It was almost as if the slick inking convinced Kirby that he could just unleash his creativity and almost pummel us with new concepts and ideas.

20:05 / 23.03.04

If we go with EFF (which seems to be a popular choice ATM) I think beginning at the beginning would be the best bet since this was where Lee and Kirby really brought th marvel universe into being...

A beautiful tunnel of ghosts

20:23 / 23.03.04

If you're going to choose EFF, I'd agree that a later volume would give us more to discuss. IIRC, the first 10 or so issues are the Fantastic Four fighting Doom, The Sub-Mariner and Spider-Man or any combination thereof. The important points from the early stories IMO are the origin of the FF, the reintegration of the Sub-Mariner and his relationship with Sue and the first characterisations of the team themselves - it's not much to go on.

20:33 / 23.03.04

EFF vol. 1 includes 20 issues plus the first annual which covers everything from Dr Doom to the Skrulls and the Watcher to the submariner - its even got The Thing as a pirate and Spiderman and Hulk. Seems like there's plenty there to me.

Matthew Fluxington

22:24 / 23.03.04

Solitaire Rose is right on. I think we should do Volume 3, that one is the hottest. Inhumans! Silver Surfer! Galactus! Black Panther!

That's Lee/Kirby in their prime.

Murray Hamhandler

22:35 / 23.03.04

I'd be up for that. I've been meaning to buy Essential FF Vol. 3 for a while now.

00:23 / 24.03.04

Ends up being Essential FF vol. 1, 2, or 3 - or any combination, thereof - and I'll be spending more time here, instead of doing actual useful, paying things, but it'll be worth it, as it makes an excuse to go through the Kirby/Lee goodness yet again.
Anybody know if there's a fourth volume out yet? One or two more should close off the original run (at, what, issue 108 or so?), but I don't know if they can keep the clean 20 and an annual or two, break-point the Essentials seem predicated on.
I'm not particularly gung ho about seeing the purple superstrong alternate-dimension Reed Richards reprinted, or even the Byrne era particularly, but the Lee/Kirby stuff was just... just. Nuff said and all that. Yeah, the early days are rocky and confused a bit about what this thing wants to be, but once it hits stride, it's just astounding how smoothly things can progress from fashion-designer-supercriminals kidnapping, to the Inhumans political problems and psychic psycho sibling rivalry, to a silver bald messiah of destruction, to a God in a purple hat, to cosmic-powered Doom to... Willie Lumpkin wriggling his ears. Where did he come from before FF, anyhow? I know he was reused from something, a romance or humor comic.
What's weird is, much as the mini bothered people when it came out (even when it was just a vague proposal of semi-Freudian underpinnings), the Morrison/Lee '1234' thing plays great next to those Essential volumes. It's a wee bit less understated, but just a tiny, itty bitty bit, for all that. Even at its most cornball, I think it managed to be quite - not adult, but, evenly leveled? maybe? Intelligent, I suppose, even if it sounds funny using 'intelligent' to describe a book at had the Impossible Man or anyone actually buying into Doom's 'if I make you all tiny you will be smarter' logic.
In any case, I hope this is what everybody decides to go for soon.

06:12 / 24.03.04

S'funny cos I'm in the exact opposite position to Tron in Morrocco - I picked up EFF1 cheaply a while ago when Flux last mentioned it and wasn't really all that mpressed. I'm not all that inclined to fork out money on volume 3 of a comic which I didn't particularly enjoy at vol. 1, but then again I can think of a fair few comics that didn't exactly get off to the most gripping of starts that improved radically as they progress - Cerebus and the Invisibles spring to mind immediately.

16:21 / 12.04.04

Right, seeing as how there wasn't much consensus earlier, I figure the best idea is to dedicate this thread to Essential Fantastic Four volumes 1-3, the first 60 or so issues of Jack Kirby and Stan Lee's acclaimed comic.

And to give everyone interested time to pick up one of the books how about we kick off the thread proper on a week today? Monday the 19th?

How does that strike everyone?

17:12 / 12.04.04

Sounds like a plan.

miss wonderstarr

20:09 / 16.04.04

I wonder if, at some point in the future, people will realise there is no such book as THE WATCHMEN.

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