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Watchmen

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Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

02:30 / 19.02.03

Greatest comic of all time?

Not really.

It's very good and an important step forward for comics as a form of literature, but there have been other books since that are as good if not better. The ending is total shite, and the characters aren't quite as deep as they appear at first sight.

That being said, it is required super-hero comics reading, and in many ways, it very well could be the best super-hero comic done.

matsya

03:02 / 19.02.03

Spoiler alert:

Re-read it recently, and while I still think it's pretty good, there's one thing that shits me to tears about this comic, and that's Alan's little trick where he imposes the narrative from one subplot over the pictorial depiction of action from another, and the schtick is that the narrative statement is ambiguous enough for it to apply to both situations at once. In some parts of the comic it happens every panel for two pages, and at times Moore is reaching so hard to find something for a character to say that would also describe the action in the panel that it ends up being an exercise in punning. An example is the sequence where silk spectre and night owl get mugged, intercut with the press conference where Dr. Manhattan is falsely revealed as having given everyone cancer.

It's a clever enough trick, and a nice device, but it's used far, far too much.

m.

bjacques

07:02 / 19.02.03

I couldn't find it on that site, but ages ago somebody told me that in the 1950s, DC or some other house tried to start a line of pirate comics, but they didn't catch on. In Watchmen, they are (were) not only wildly successful, but got the unwelcome attention that horror comics got in our history. Tales of the Black Freighter's extremes of rum, sodomy and the lash would be the equivalent of all the gore and mutilation in Tales of the Crypt.

The Rumrunner, a nightclub that appears mostly in reflection, with the forwards and backwards "R" forming a skull, can be a reminder of the cultural penetration of pirate comics (maybe the club owner read them as a kid) but it's also the name of a real club that was owned by Duran Duran front man Simon Le Bon.

The 's

The Falcon

12:59 / 19.02.03

I noticed that last time I read it, too, matsya.

It makes it a little forced on occasions, yup.

Still, Rorschach...

abstractgeek

13:03 / 19.02.03

I think the 2 covers were originally to distinguish the trades as being sold through direct sales shops (the skyline cover) and regular bookstores (the happy face) dc also did this with the trade version of the dark knight retrns all back in the 80s. ii think they dumped the smiley cover entirely for a while, i only remember seeing the skyline for tmany years even in bookstores, but recently the smiley face has appeared again in bookstores with a slightly redesigned back cover. Personally i like the smiley cover more, but since i got my trade in a comic shop ive got the skyline until i decide to purchase another (which i may just do since my watchmen trade is easily the most loaned out of my trades and is starting to show it wear)

abstractgeek

13:03 / 19.02.03

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

04:14 / 20.02.03

The comic was "Piracy" by EC, and it was started before Tales from the Crypt died, but ends up being thought of as one of the New Trend titles because it only lasted about 6 issues.

It hasn't held up over the years like the other ECs have because it went through the code and was heavily censored.

The Natural Way

12:03 / 20.02.03

I like it when the "endings shite" with no explanation as to why....

I think you might be missing the point of the book, but at the mo' I've no idea how deep yr analysis probes. Flick the switch.

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

04:25 / 21.02.03

Because in a lot of ways, it was the ending of War of the Worlds...rather than the main characters resolving the problems, the ending just sort of happened and they happened to be there when it did.

I don't want to get into spoilers, but even now, I read the ending and wonder if the story got out of control and Moore really did the metaphysical equivalent of "They all got hit by a bus".

perceval

04:40 / 21.02.03

Moore had mentioned that Gilliam changed the ending for the planned movie, and thought Terry had come up with a better one. Anyone know what that ending was?

E

yawn - thing's buddy

07:35 / 21.02.03

I always thought the Invisibles was yer Gnostic Watchmen.

Similar ending:

Mason builds a hallucination for us all to share (‘Can we all come and live?’ asks Mob; Borscht and Burgers for sale in Watchmen) - Both stories are utopian dreams which rely on the application of capatilism, technology, and ‘self-improvement’ in order to bring about the required change.

Both have characters who go missing right at the start. Their absence kick-starts the narrative and unfolds their ‘complex structure(s)’ - (On one level, The Invisibles is the unfolded map of John A Dreams universal experience: Watchmen, similarly, is flip book of the Comedian’s entrails)

Both have central characters plagued with self-doubt concerning the morality of their behaviour (king mob and nite-owl)

Rorshach’s in both titles.

Ha ha

Or maybe they’re just both comics and all comics are the same.

Yeah?

PatrickMM

14:50 / 21.02.03

I don't want to get into spoilers, but even now, I read the ending and wonder if the story got out of control and Moore really did the metaphysical equivalent of "They all got hit by a bus".

I've got to disagree. Throughout the narrative you can see hints dropped about the ending that is to come, like the missing writer, etc. But also, the ending serves as the conflict between Rorshach's more violent, save people by any means neccessary approach, and Dan's more passive good hero approach to saving people. Veidt chooses the Rorshach way because he feels that sometimes people have to get hurt to be saved. I think the ending is perfect and not a cop out at all, if only because of the panel of old Bernard attempting to save young Bernard as the blast comes, which is as beautiful as anything in the book.

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