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Watchmen

 
  

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Locust No longer
18:00 / 21.12.01
Yeah, for Christ-mess I got this really cool hardcover version of the Watchmen that comes all black in a tough black slip case. It has a cool little imprint of the smiley face logo on the front and has about 50 pages of additional things like a script and character studies in the back. My girlfriend works for a comics mailorder and got it for relatively cheap. Bragging aside, I have to say this is one of the best comic books I have ever read. I read it a while ago and am still blown away by it. Thoughts?
 
 
troy
15:26 / 22.12.01
I remember being blown away by Watchmen when it first came out in the 80's.

I was also blown away by V for Vendetta and Miracleman (along with many other non-Moore works, of course). I highly recommend both of 'em to you (though good luck finding Miracleman these days).
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
16:27 / 25.12.01
watchmen?????

what the fuck's that?

Don't you mean, The Watcher? As in Tales of the....
 
 
Hush
17:30 / 25.12.01
(I am unusually insensitive to sarcasm so if the above was that. Sorry)

You have something to look forward to.

The Watchmen was a twelve issue DC mini now available as trade paperback. It feature all original superheroes in a very well worked "who is going to kill the superheroes and take over the world?" mystery.

It features, among a fine cast the archetypal masked vigilante who is as hard and cunning as fuck and as fucked up as can be; the wonderful Rorshach (I'm not locked in here with you, you're locked in with me).

Make reading this a new years resolution

(And for the namedrop kids:- (Moore, Gibson at their best- really)
 
 
The Knowledge +1
09:10 / 26.12.01
Yeah Watchmen rules. That story told back and for of the big blue guy who can see the entirety of time is heart-breaking, I love it, and it preceeded Grant Morrison's similar type of tale in Invisibles vol 1 iss 12 (Best Man Fall) by a good fifteen years.

Alan Moore = Grant Morrison?
 
 
johnny_4_president
09:10 / 26.12.01
watchmen's gonna be one of those comics that's gonna be taught in public high schools in our lifetime. what kills me is the way watchmen's alternate earth history is so well put together. manhatten winning the 'nam for the USA, dick nixon being president, the balance of world power tilting over afghanistan. by the way, anybody wanna draw any parallels between watchmen's chatastrophic alien arrival in NYC and our world's WTC disaster in NYC?
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
09:10 / 26.12.01
the parallels are too close for comfort as recent film developments of Watchmen were put on hold as a result of this snchronicity.

Issue 4 of Watchmen. (or chapter 4, trade fans) is as suggested above, pretty fuckin mighty.

The covers rocked. The lettering droid ruled.
The colourist wobot never gets a mention and how about the smiley face with the blood splatter being a fore-warning for the dangers of over-indulging in dance drugs.

I mean, after 13 years of smoking/popping/sniffing while dancing, I actually look like that bloody smiley.

ps. thank fuck the knot-top thing never caught on.
 
 
Rev. Wright
11:36 / 26.12.01
'Who Watches the...'
I think the most impressive angle that the series and graphic hold is its multi-layered format. Not only does it represent a comic book story of superheroes, but each episode has a lyrical link, there is additional material presented as articles/extracts from within the world, a seperate/parellel pirate comic appears, whose creative team exist within the narrative. I can't recall any other comic book or media text that goes to such great length to explore reality and themes.
Maybe this is why Terry Gilliam rrealised that it can't be adapted out of the pages. It is an archetypal form that has yet to be toppled, except maybe by the letters pages in Cerebus, but thats another thread.

[ 26-12-2001: Message edited by: William Wright ]
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
15:22 / 26.12.01
John Newsinger in 'The Dredd Phenomenon: Comics and Contemporary Society' claims quote:
Although the literary and artistic qualities of the Watchmen are to be admired, there is a sense in which Moore has been too clever for his own good. The comic falls between two stools. Its view of the world as a place where ordinary people are the pawns of the powerful is compromised by its concern with showing the problems and difficulties that the powerful themselves experience. From this point of view, it does not function as a critique of the superhero ethos, but seems to celebrate it. Moore's technical skill overwhelms his politics, turning his own creation against him. He has, to some extent, acknowledged this himself, although as part of a more general critique of adventure comics...


I disagree with practically every opinion the author bothers to make in this book and he doesn't even bother to write anything about 'the Dredd phenomenon' beyond "Dredd, been going for 20 years, makes fascism cool, wasn't the film rubbish?", but what does everyone think about the above statement?
 
 
Hush
15:54 / 26.12.01
I do have a problem with my enjoyment of Alan Moore and this addresses it.

quote: there is a sense in which Moore has been too clever for his own good.

I find his cleverest work plain 'clever-clever' while his best work is suffused with a genuine naivity and sense of fun. Great art transcends it's own artifice and subdues the creator in the creation. Moore burst into the baroque too often. The whole pirates thing in Watchmen is an example of this.


quote:
The comic falls between two stools. Its view of the world as a place where ordinary people are the pawns of the powerful is compromised by its concern with showing the problems and difficulties that the powerful themselves experience


I actually liked the duality of this. Rorshach in prison is a paradigm of the superhuman trapped in the human condition.

quote: From this point of view, it does not function as a critique of the superhero ethos, but seems to celebrate it. Moore's technical skill overwhelms his politics, turning his own creation against him.

Moores politics are always an irritant to me, while his story telling was (is? yes! see Top 10) beautiful, if mannered. When he tries to subvert comics it grates, cause he writes great comics. In the Watchmen the failure of ideology is masked by the greatness of the story. Alan Moore: much less modern than he imagines and much better for it.

Read this. (even the pirates are good for the first ten reads)
 
 
Professor Silly
20:24 / 26.12.01
First of all, I admit that I consider The Watchmen the greatest comic maxi-series of all time. It works on so many different levels that I enjoy it each and every time I read it.

quote: Its view of the world as a place where ordinary people are the pawns of the powerful is compromised by its concern with showing the problems and difficulties that the powerful themselves experience.

...what in the bloody hell is that supposed to mean?!? A superhuman still qualifies as a human, with all of the feelings and doubts a regular person has. The only exception in this case may be Dr. Manhatten, who operates from a very evolved perspective.

Seems to me the writer of this Dredd things likes to use words to seem more intelligent than he really is.

Don't forget the prose sections at the end of each chapter! Some try to skip them, since they don't have the pretty word balloons!!!

All Hail Discordia!!!!!
 
 
The Damned Yankee
00:52 / 27.12.01
I think that the writer is a pretentious pseudy little fuck who needs to have his head pulled out of his ass. There, that just about covers it . . .
 
 
Jack Fear
02:05 / 27.12.01
Here's a question: when and why did people start adding a "The" to the title?

I've only noticed this in the last few years, and it drives me fucking crazy every time I see it.
 
 
Sax
05:38 / 27.12.01
I agree with what The Jack Fear said.
 
 
rizla mission
05:38 / 27.12.01
Probably not terribly cool to say it at the moment, what with all this 'post-ironic, back to basics, fun superhero' malarky, but;

Watchmen - best comic ever.

I must have read it all the way through 3 or 4 times now and it has more emotional impact every time.

And so many smart-arse subtexts you could spend a decade trying to decode them all. Which I consider a good thing.

If it wasn't a comic it would be an absolute god send for English teachers the world over..
 
 
Spatula Clarke
05:38 / 27.12.01
I remember reading an interview with Gilliam where he explained this.

I think it was something to do with the studio that Gilliam was going to direct the movie for; they thought it... ahem... made more sense to call the film 'The Watchmen' as they didn't believe audiences would understand the title 'Watchmen' - "Eh? Why's it called Watchmen if they're called The Minutemen?". They were going to make 'The Watchmen' a group title for the characters within the film.

Pricks.
 
 
A
05:38 / 27.12.01
quote:Originally posted by Jawbone:
(It feature all original superheroes in a very well worked "who is going to kill the superheroes and take over the world?" mystery.


The superheroes in Watchmen weren't entirely original. Moore originally proposed the series with the characters that DC had just aquired from Charlton (I think) comics. DC wanted to Introduce those characters to the "DC universe", so Moore changed them a bit.

I'm not sure of all of them, but Rorschach is The Question, Nite-Owl is Blue Beetle, Doctor Manhattan is Captain Atom and think that Silk Spectre is Phantom Lady. Does anyone know any more about this?

I just read Watchmen for the first time about a week ago and I loved it. It wasn't dissapointing in the slightest, and I'd been looking forward to reading it for years.
 
 
Sax
05:38 / 27.12.01
All of that is correct, as I remember it. Moore picked the Charlton heroes as DC had just acquired them, but obviously what he planned to do with Watchmen would have left most of them dead/retired/nuts, so he made up his own.
 
 
A
05:38 / 27.12.01
Partly answering my own question here, but i've done a little research and apparently Ozymandias is Thunderbolt, the Comedian is the Peacemaker and Silk Spectre is Nightshade (not Phantom Lady, as i said above), not that i'd recognise any of these original characters if i found them lodged sideways in my anus.
 
 
DaveBCooper
05:38 / 27.12.01
I agree with various other people on this : Watchmen is a magnificent piece of work, and may well be the greatest comic story of all time. So far.

I was lucky enough to read it at the time, and the month’s gap between issues was hard to bear – in fact, I think issue 12 was about a month later than it should have been, and I honestly don’t think that I’ve ever been as keen to read a comic before or since. And I’ve been reading comics for quite a while.

Count Adam’ Part 2s quite right : the original outline used the Charlton comic heroes (Question, Blue Beetle et al – the characters recently seen in Bob Layton’s L.A.W. miniseries for DC), but the story was that DC weren’t so keen to have the characters used in a way that would have made them – ahem – hard to use after the series was over. So new characters were developed. Don’t have my copy to hand right now, but the hardback lists the details … maybe Locustscrushthorax could remind us.

And the hardback edition was, IIRC, a limited edition item done by Graphitti Designs at around the same time as the TPB came out from DC. It’s a good-looking item, and the format should ensure the book survives the re-reads the story invites, and so richly deserves. Interestingly, the DC edition of the TPB I have features a window shattering, with a view of buildings beyond, and a blood-stained smiley badge falling, and it’s by Dave Gibbons. However, I seem to recall that the Titan edition at the time (and maybe still being sold ?) had a close-up on the blood-stain of the badge, which I believe that I heard Dave say was done not by him, but by John Higgins. Anyone know if that was the case ? I can see why it might be, as it was essentially a colour painting…

DBC

[ 27-12-2001: Message edited by: DaveBCooper ]
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
12:21 / 27.12.01
Some folks might notice that in a odd sort of homage to Moore's Nite Owl/Blue Beetle, Keith Giffen had the 'real' Blue Beetle in the Justice League get chubby too...

Of course, it was used mainly for comedic effect...
 
 
Big Talk
17:01 / 28.12.01
I really like the essay on lateral readings of Watchmen

here

meta-reading of comix- sorta like how the Invisibles can be read + makes sense outside the order in which it was published.

also brings to mind alan moore's fractal concepts (of murder) in from hell. is there anything as dense as watchmen? positively joycean.
 
 
Margin Walker
00:54 / 03.09.02
Seeing as the 1 year anniversary of the Sep't 11th attacks is almost here, I'm reading this again. For anyone who's interested, there's also an annotation of Watchmen here: http://www.stahl.bau.tu-bs.de/~hildeb/watchmen/.

BTW, is there a reason that Watchmen has 2 different covers? Personally I prefer the newer cover (the close-up of the Comedian's bloody Smiley-Face badge) to the origional (the image of the broken window overlooking the city's skyline).
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
00:59 / 03.09.02
I thought it was clunky.
 
 
bio k9
01:04 / 03.09.02
I used to have a 1st printing of the trade and it had the yellow cover.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
01:07 / 03.09.02
I'm pretty sure that the broken window cover was the first US edition and the close-up badge cover was the first UK one.

Also remember somebody here saying that the badge cover wasn't done by Gibbons.
 
 
Justin Brief
13:31 / 03.09.02
The unproduced script by Batman's Sam Hamm is here:

http://scifiscripts.name2host.com/scripts/wtchmn.txt
 
 
Funktion
05:37 / 13.02.03
I must say that like many of you I consider Watchmen to be the standard that all comic books should be measured by as it was absolutely brilliant.

I also want to mention that Ive read a good part of that script and I feel it was atrocious and thankfully WON'T be made...

If anyone writes a Watchmen script it should obviously be Alan Moore...
 
 
The Photographer in Blowup
10:32 / 13.02.03
Seeing as the 1 year anniversary of the Sep't 11th attacks is almost here, I'm reading this again.

I'll never forget the day i first read Watchmen, because it was the day the World Trade Center was attacked.

Sad way of remembering such a great graphic novel.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
11:49 / 13.02.03
Watchy is a very good, nay excellent comic book. Agreed.

That it should be some kind of yardstick for other comics to measures their cocks against is a silly thing to even consider.

'Yeah Slaughterhouse 5 is good but compared to Moby Dick it's just mince.'
 
 
Funktion
03:32 / 18.02.03
Yeah Slaughterhouse 5 is good but compared to Moby Dick it's just mince.'


If your point is any "measuring stick" is arbitrary, then right on, sure,
I did say "I consider" to make sure you didnt think I was making an objective claim...

bTw Moby Dick is overrated...

oh and thats MY opinion
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
07:38 / 18.02.03
och aye funtion.

I've not read the Dick so it remain's unrated by me.

But I'd have to say I reckons yer idea of Moore writing his own Watchy film script is a bit skew whiff n all.

I mean, the guys comic scripts are unorthodox as it is. It’s probably too late for him to adapt his overflowing scripting style and it just wouldnae work for him in films.
 
 
Sunny
21:05 / 18.02.03
watchmen is pretty great, but people really need to stop giving it impossible expectations with the "the greatest comic of all time" and the art is alright you know just alright not great(my opinion obviously). fucked up that wizard had to spoil the fucking main part of it in their special villains issue for me and other people. hate me, I didn't like top ten 1-7.
 
 
Funktion
01:53 / 19.02.03
eh whatever gets you through the night right ?

Meth Man,
Sorry I dont read that magazine Wizards so yo tengo no idea what youre talking about...............
 
 
Sunny
02:02 / 19.02.03
verdad, no es importante, nevermind.
 
  

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