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Responsibilities of a Fiction Suit

 
  

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Goodness Gracious Meme
11:42 / 22.06.01
quote:Originally posted by Lee:
It's not easy to take back insults on-line because it is an arena where neither side has motive to back down or temper their opinion. This could be a blessing or a curse. You can't kiss and make up, you can't give someone flowers, you can only deepen whatever rifts are caused.


It isn't easy, true, as you say above, and arguments around here *have* become pointless shouting matches sometimes.

But, it's wrong to say that it doesn't happen because you can't 'kiss and make up'. If you can piss someone off, make them angry via this medium, you can therefore also calm them down, placate, if you want to.

There have been plenty of occasions when a hot-tempered tone, adopted to usefully move a discussion on, or not adopted at all and rather the result of expressing deeply felt anger/passion, have become obstructive. Or, just as IRL, people are pushing a point forcefully and then say stuff they didn't mean, often in terms of getting overly personal.

At which point people have apologised, offered 'bunches of flowers'/'olive branches' and moved on. Not always, but it does happen.

Making the 'let's play nice' argument based on not being able to repair the damage is doing a disservice to people's social skills and intelligence.
 
 
deletia
11:46 / 22.06.01
quote:Originally posted by Jackie Hates You Stupid Bastards:


Talking about the dominant ideology is just a way of obscuring the basically antagonistic social relations that characterise capitalism.


Now, you see? Jackie has responded in an explosive fashion to an apparently outdated piece of terminology. Does this make his opposition less valid and productive? It does not.

It will, however, allow everyone to have a good old chortle as he leads his army, "Probable anarchists against a wide range of arguably bad stuff" banners waving in the wind, into withering machine gun fire.

The counterculture. Got to love it.
 
 
QUINT
11:51 / 22.06.01
Or it will come around to your house and shave your cat, tattoo your snake and wear its loud and furry trousers in a built-up area?

No, thank you, pointy mans.
 
 
deletia
12:19 / 22.06.01
Oh, fuck off, comedy suit boy.
 
 
QUINT
12:51 / 22.06.01
Which is precisely how the world sees you, silly deletion. Loud and pointy and furry, wave your banner and smash my shop.

Do you wonder why they scowl in their muffins?

You make me sad and bumpy. But that's okay. I love you anyways.
 
 
Rialto
12:58 / 22.06.01
When I was a child:

I thought like a child.

I spoke like a child.

I posted like a child.

Now I have become Time Please, I have put away childish things.

This is not a joke. But you, Wally Llama, are. Not a very funny one at that. Or the idiot savant you clearly want to be taken for.

There is no aphorism that states that wisdom will come out of the mouths of drippy fuckwits.

[ 22-06-2001: Message edited by: Time Please ]
 
 
QUINT
14:17 / 22.06.01
Responsibilities of a fiction suit? Remember?

Jackie posts as angry persons. I posts as irritating lexicographical error wrapped in goodwill.

Both is positions. Both has advantages and disadvantages.

I am not a joke, I am a game.

Maybe I will tire. Maybe I will not. But certes, the more pointy people are furry, the more I will vaticise my output.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
15:50 / 22.06.01
Well, I like him.

It's not about playing nice when you don't feel like it. It's about showing, at he very least, a modicum of respect to someone who simply may not know as much about the subject as you. And ignorance of your ignorance is an excuse.

In addition. There's a lot of very well-read bastards on this board. And occasionally they can mistake disagreement for ignorance. Ie, 'you hold a differing opinion? Why, you obviously haven't read...' And sometimes this is true. And sometimes this is not.

For what it's worth, the Underground would be a colder place without people like Jackie to jam red hot throbbing erections into the marmite of the foolish. I just don't think it should be a career - more an infrequent primal scream. IMBlatantlyHypocriticalO.
 
 
ynh
20:50 / 22.06.01
This has become a rampant discussion that bears little resemblence to any actual posting. I applauded the post that generated this thread, and still do. Show me a more participatory Switchboard thread, anyone? Not to mention the fact that hir posts are rarely so volatile.

Jack, because I love you, I'll respond directly. None of us are required to respect any opinion, even if someone's "ignorance of [hir] ignorance is an excuse." The only valid reason offered for playing nice is cultivating respect from others. Most of the antagonistic folks already have that, so they have no motivation. And most of the time somebody's willing to coddle and nurture the ignorant.

The situation you mention occurs, but it's often in response to wilfull ignorance: suits posting the same ill-informed opinion over and over despite quoting, links, well-reasoned arguments, &c. The well read folks get frustrated, too.

Finally, it's not a career, really. As above, Jackie's posts rarely approach "ratlicking toadies" like that. So your requirement is fulfilled.

[ 26-06-2001: Message edited by: [Your Name Here] ]
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
06:53 / 23.06.01
What you say is true, my blank-named friend. I would mention that I did use the word 'occasionally' with my second point, which was really more an addendum than anything else. However, I am Captain Hyperbole, and it's nice for my talents to be recognised in a public forum.

Got to take issue with the whole 'only reason to show respect is to garner it from others' angle. That implies a level of cynicism that I can't really relate to. Personally, I show others respect because they're worthy of it, not because I want it reciprocated. And it's true that some people cuntify themselves by being numpty bastards in this board, and there's no way I'd advocate any kind of 'dumbing down of the revolution'.

But there's a level of arrogance - entirely justified - that comes hand in glove with knowledge of a subject. And the way transactions of status go, especially here, is that when you're confronted by someone who is clearly ignorant of certain key aspects of the subject under discussion, the first and most natural response is . I just saying that's not necessarily a response that should be acted on arbitrarily, but that any response to such a situation should be based in the context of the post, the history, the subject... and before anyone brings up the likelihood of anyone having the time to analyse their feelings and reactions before every post, I'd add that this is something we do on a daily basis when communicating with others, and it's done almost without conscious thought in a lot of cases.

But look, I'm not actually talking about Jackie here - I want to make that clear too. It may be hir thread, but it seems to have kind of moved on to talking about the subject in general, rather than one suit in particular. Personally, Jacks is one of the people here I learn the most from, which is why I don't often post in response to hir stuff - I'm sitting at the desk with steepled fingers, murmuring "Eeeeenteresteeeeeng..."
 
 
Jackie Susann
02:15 / 24.06.01
quote: So what are you doing it for? This is a serious question. What is your experiment set up to find out.

Well darl, I'm interested in exploring the idea that all modes of rhetoric are basically violent. I didn't want to explore it theoretically, so I put the idea in practice by trying to respond at all times with as much hostility as possible. There were a number of problems with that approach; mostly, I just couldn't sustain the hostility and kept posting things that were kind of, well, nice. I'm really, really sorry to anyone who was offended by anything I said, but I still think it had value as an experiment, at least for me personally. I was more or less satisfied that the rhetoric of "reason" used against me was no less exclusionary than my "irrational hostility" was supposed to be. Or to put it another way, as fond as I am of all of you, we're all complete pricks when it comes down to it.

My current plan is to rename my fiction suit at the same time every month and with it, attempt a new rhetorical mode. I'm sure smart, hip kids like you can work out what the current one is. I'm interested in which kinds of rhetoric will be most effective as debating techniques, but also the different ways people will interact with different suits. And hopefully, those interactions will just keep getting nicer and nicer until we are so damn friendly we all just explode.
 
 
Disco is My Class War
05:25 / 24.06.01
Or, to be more precise, it's all about Art. Hostility as Art. Niceness as Art.

Can I see a 'Jackie Loves All You Stupid Bastards', please? Drunk 1am in the pub Jackie, with muscles and a flannie.
 
 
Ganesh
07:51 / 24.06.01
What's a 'flannie'?
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
08:42 / 24.06.01
Interesting idea, Jackie. I'm curious about what will happen. Thinking about it in the aftermath of Garfinkel and his chums, I wonder whether you won't cause irritation in all of your incarnations, simply because your cues will be 'wrong' - either changed too far from last time, or obviously derived from a persona described in your name - so that, like someone who won't make eye contact, say 'uh huh' occasionally, or otherwise confirm engagement, you will seem eithr disconnected or insincere.
 
 
deletia
12:23 / 24.06.01
quote:Originally posted by Jackie Loves Everyone:


Or to put it another way, as fond as I am of all of you, we're all complete pricks when it comes down to it.


And that is your damascene, fire from heaven, Zarathustra coming down from the mountain revelation.

God's sake man. I could have told you that.
 
 
ynh
17:49 / 24.06.01
Nick, read hir last porn post. I dunno if it works for everyone, but... Well whatever, I'm unlikely to be bothered either way. I'm actually with Rosa for the alchemical marriage.

Of course, with time we'll see a polysemic, moody, real entity emerge... note Jackie Loves Everyone psiing on the ratlicking toadies in the Switchboard.

What about name changing? Or just having a pain in the ass suit title?

And can we finally get a Haus of Pain? I believe that's your resonsibility.

[ 24-06-2001: Message edited by: [Your Name Here] ]
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
08:55 / 25.06.01
Uh...I think Visible Names change when you update them, so old posts by a given suit will always have the new name.

Um. Why is the Haus of Pain my responsibility? Isn't that Tannhauser-who-is-gone-and-arisen-as-a-new-person?
 
 
ynh
20:38 / 25.06.01
Oh, it's not, Nick. I was referring to that wandering property with the spooky noises and glowing windows; thanks.

[ 27-06-2001: Message edited by: [You're Not Helping] ]
 
 
sammyboy
16:38 / 03.06.12
Wow 11 years old ...
 
  

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