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Comics this week

  
  

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Regrettable Juvenilia
18:59 / 14.12.01
No, I have a sassy blue-skinned redhead to do that for me.

In the special land I go to that's inside my head. La la la la la...
 
 
Captain Zoom
19:18 / 14.12.01
Um, if I coudl just chime in about the whole bags 'n' boards thing. I keep all my new stock in them. I have lots of little kids that come in and immediately grab the closest shiny-covered funny book. I'd rather they didn't have a chance to tear or dirty the covers or the interiors of the comics. Not to mention the fact that a bag and board will generally discourage the people who come into the store and precede to read and entire issue while standing by the rack. I hate to sound trite, but I'm not running a library. And even a bag and board doesn't deter some people. Really gets on my tits. I keep all my comics at home in bags and boards. I'm not a speculator. I long ago got past the "I'll be able to retire on this stuff in 50 years line of thought:. I would, however, like for these comics to be well-preserved enough that one day I'll be able to give them to my son, or my grandkids, and say "This is something that really means a lot to me. I hope you enjoy it too."

Course then the little buggers will probably go and sell them 'cause they're in such good condition.

Yesterday I had a lady buy a comic for her kid, and she gave the bag and board back to me because she knew the kid was going to tear the shit out of it. I don't bag my stuff to remove the choice of whether or not you want a bag. I do it so that my product remains in a saleable fashion until it's left my store. After that, I don't give a fuck what happens to it.

Hm. Reading that back it sounds almost rant-esque, which it wasn't meant to.

Zoom.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
19:26 / 14.12.01
That's pretty reasonable, as a shopkeeper, that makes some sense...

but don't you think it makes people less likely to purchase a comic if they can't look through it first?

But then again, I think of all the comics I decide NOT to buy because I look through them and realize how bad they are in the shop...

Congratulations for getting kids in the shop... I never ever see kids in comic shops.
 
 
Captain Zoom
19:47 / 14.12.01
Flux (heehee, special ointment), yer right. It's a thin line to tread. I do want people to look at the stuff first. I'd be pissed if I picked up, say, the new Amazing Spider-Man, with it's J.Scott Campbell cover, only to find John Romita art inside. However, if someone wants to look inside the comic, I'd prefer they asked. Like it or not, comics are something that people, or some people, collect, and for that reason I have to have them in the best shape possible to sell them. I dunno. It's tough. At one point I had decided to set up an area with a coffee table and a couch in the store and just leave copies of comics sitting on the table for people to leaf through. Both space constraints and the question of whether or not I wanted people hanging about reading comics all afternoon nixed that idea (for the time being), so I'm stuck now with comics in bags.

Plus think of all the comic bag makers who'd be out of work if we didn't use them. Think of them, before you casually cast aside their hard labour. Think of them before you crumple that comic that their simple, yet care-filled, product could have saved. Do you not cry for the comic-bag maker?

Zoom.
 
 
Sharkgrin
20:56 / 14.12.01
Flux, I never said aberrant heroes were the only variety. You did. I actually said I followed classic super hero stories also.
All I said was that some titles carrying anitheroes were good reads (which I follow among other genres (which I also stated)), and that they contributed a lot to the expansion of comics.
Gritty, grimy, male power-trips? You are correct on all accounts, not that they did not contribute alot to the media. It's exactly want I want and I admit it ain't for everyone, as I'm sure your taste are not for everyone. By the way, Vertigo has a bigger cap on that than Wizard (Preacher, Hrellblazer, Sandman, Lucuifer, Transmet, ad nauseum).
Gunny, you are right, the anti-hero genre is dated and it's been awhile since it helped the industry expand. My examples are 5-6 years out of whack.

[ 15-12-2001: Message edited by: Sharkgrin ]
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
22:22 / 14.12.01
Sharkgrin, I will make this really easy for you by stating this as simply as possible:

My argument is that there is a LOT more to comics than superheroes (any kind of superheroes!) and other pulp genres (horror, crime noir, fantasy, westerns). I have a hard time agreeing with any argument that those sorts of comics are doing anything to progress the industry or the medium, though I think that some creators efforts in subverting those genres is interesting and valuable.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
22:33 / 14.12.01
I'd be pissed if I picked up, say, the new Amazing Spider-Man, with it's J.Scott Campbell cover, only to find John Romita art inside.

not me! I can't believe how great JRJR is these days...he's come a long way since the 80s, going from drab hack to vaguely interesting to now being really dynamic and interesting, with great storytelling chops. His art in Spider-Man and Hulk really impresses me, and the only reason that I don't buy them is that I really have zero interest in Hulk or Spider-Man. At all. Whatsoever.

I really wish they'd have him draw something really interesting... I'd be curious to see how he'd handle a non-superhero, non-scifi, non-horror, non-crime comic.

Both space constraints and the question of whether or not I wanted people hanging about reading comics all afternoon nixed that idea (for the time being), so I'm stuck now with comics in bags.

I don't know, I think the lounge idea is something that should really be worked on... maybe you can start serving coffee and food or something... I guess it depends on what sort of folks yr place attracts. The kind of shop I dream of would barely carry any superhero comics, focus mainly on comics friendly to girls and adults, plus have a lot of zines, magazines, and odd books and stuff. It'd be set up like a lounge, and would constantly be playing very cool music. and it would look like it was decorated by art students.

Plus think of all the comic bag makers who'd be out of work if we didn't use them. Think of them, before you casually cast aside their hard labour. Think of them before you crumple that comic that their simple, yet care-filled, product could have saved. Do you not cry for the comic-bag maker?

I'm not about to shed tears for large plastic manufacturers just yet.

I keep all my good comics on a bookshelf. I haven't had my comics wrapped in plastic since I was 13.

The comics I like the most are mostly in terrible shape from having been read and borrowed many times over. Most of my old Grant Doom Patrols are missing their covers. I'm not really bothered by it. When a comic shop wants to wrap my purchases up, they are just offering to give me something to throw away. It's not necessary.

[ 15-12-2001: Message edited by: Flux = Special Ointment ]
 
 
Mr Tricks
22:48 / 14.12.01
Well... I'm with Zoom,

I've lent MANY an issue of SANDMAN or the INvisibles to many friends... having them in a bag & board, tends to inspire an inhanced sence of care with handling them. Most of the time thay come back bagged & boarded, othertimes they don't. Still, they tend to survive that much longer, especially after my DOG knockes over a pile of them with muddy exuberance.

I don't plan of selling them when I'm 50, but I do plan of rereading them several times between now & then and would prefer to have them in as good condition as possible for those occasions.

Simple preferance really...

Some folks prefer Vinyle over CD's... other's don't. Some pride themselves on their 8track collection as well!
 
 
Sharkgrin
07:02 / 15.12.01
Flux, just make it easier on yourself and:
1 - learn how to read.
2 - Don't change arguments when your're wrong

You said on 12 Dec 01, 4:25, that I said they were the ONLY thing worthwhile.

I never said that word. You did. I said I followed that genre as well as other genres.
 
 
sleazenation
07:02 / 15.12.01
I find the best approach to comic retailing (from a customer point) of view is putting one copy of an issue out open and ready to be read and leave the rest bagged - if people care about bagging an boarding they'll pick up bagged copies, if they don't they'll pick up the first one to hand, and meanwhile the unbagged issue lets people try before they buy.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
13:38 / 15.12.01
quote:Originally posted by Sharkgrin:

You said on 12 Dec 01, 4:25, that I said they were the ONLY thing worthwhile.

I never said that word. You did. I said I followed that genre as well as other genres.

You implied several times throughout this thread that there was a wide range of variety in the medium, all the way from Batman to the Hulk to John Constantine. I read between the lines.
 
 
Captain Zoom
14:34 / 15.12.01
Flux - sorry, didn't mean to come across dissing JRJR. I too am enjoying his work. But I have had a couple of people who picked ASM and expected to see the same art inside as is on the cover.

Your dream shop sounds a lot like mine. I'd love for this place to sort of morph into less of a comic store and more a cultural hang-out. I'm going to start carrying books from AK Press in the near future, hopefully, and there's always interesting music playing. The coffee and food thing has been suggested to me, but the downside is that there's all sorts of regulation about serving food to the public. I'd have to have health inspections and permits etc.
The decoration thing is something that I've mulled over. I've a friend that suggested I decorate it with well-known comic paraphernalia (starman's rod, prof. x's chair), but I'm not sure. The store's called The Magic Mirror, so I'm kind of hoping for the mirror theme to be prevalent.

I'm just gonna say that I enjoy a lot of super-hero comics and a lot on non-super-hero comics. There's room for them all, though there's a lot of super-hero comics that really could be used to line a bird cage and not be missed. My question is what exactly is meant by "advancing the medium"? Are we talking financially? Critically? There are some really great super-hero comics out there that can do as much for the comic industry in any way that Jimmy Corrigan or David Boring could do. I get really annoyed when a newspaper reviews a bunch of comics and they're all from independant publishers and never is there a mention of Sandman or Invisibles, mainly because they were put out my a mainstream (if that word can be applied to comics) publisher. I don't know if mine's the unpopular opinion, but I think Invisibles is head and shoulders above David Boring the same way the David Boring is head and shoulders above,say, Gen 13. But the trend seems to be that if a comic is published by one of the big three, it's not worth reviewing or giving accolades outside the industry. In the same vein, I honestly think that Alan Moore's Supreme is one of the best comics ever written, super-hero or non-super-hero. Just because the super-hero is intended to be completely unrealistic doesn't mean that it can't have the same impact on a reader as a more artistic or realistic comic. The validity of a story should be based on the writing rather than the genre, don't you think?

Ah, whatever. What's coming out next week?

Zoom.
 
 
Captain Zoom
17:47 / 15.12.01
Soooo, according the Diamond website, the following ultra-ginchy titles are going to be on our shelves next week:

Establishment #4
Outlaw Nation #16
Aria: The Soul Market #6 - the conclusion, I can hardly wait
New X-Men #120 - isn't this the least amount of time we've had to wait between issues of a Grant Morrison series. what's it been? Three weeks.
Didn't see any other cool stuff, but then it's only a little list, innit?

Zoom.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
19:18 / 15.12.01
yes...NXM and Eightball in the same week. Merry Christmas, I guess.

I would go against the comics paraphrenalia decor. My ideas are more along the lines of hip yuppie restaurant.

I would not agree with Invisibles being better than David Boring, but I don't think that either are Morrison or Clowes' best work. They are analogous in both being extremely ambitious and a bit too jam-packed, but in the end, Boring wins out because it is more cohesive, has more fleshed out characters (all of the Invisibles characters are ciphers if you ask me), and is drawn much, much, much better than any given Invisibles story. The number one weakness of Invisibles is that it is drawn by soooo many people, and most of those illustrators are pretty dull.
 
 
RadJose
04:45 / 16.12.01
while i was workin' at the comic shop i worked at (does that sound redundent?) and during the cource of my 2 1/2yrs there it went form comic shop to cutural hangout to just a comic shop and the last time i was in there it seemed to gettin' the cutural hang out-ness back... i hate to sound pretentious, but i was a big part in gettin' it to be a hang out, always havin' local bands hang posters in the window for shows, and when one bands sees that others do too and take note, spread the word and our window became a local becon for what goin' on in town that weekend, i also talked the owner into carrying more indie comics (via the folks at Coldcut) for if indie people would come for the window and hand flyers then they'd see all the different types of comics there too... then he asked if we should carry candy, so he found a lot of different odd candies, started carrying messed up things like bobble head devils and stuff and after the Wildstorm Jones soda deal he started carrying all sorts of soda and stuff it was funny, people would come by to try this wierd new thing they heard about and would usually end up gettin' it knowin' they wouldn't get it any where else... and i was a nice as pie to everyone, while not always the most knowledgeable on the lil things, i could BS a good game, that and i knew a bunch of people that'd come by to see me and would buy something outta pity... yeah i did wonders then we started losing money cuz we put too much hope on all the pokemon shite... lost money and i had to be let go, the new guy is gettin' it all geared up w/ music and stuff it's totally rad again! and carry anime and manga, fastest ways to get girls into the shop, it's like MAGIC!
 
 
bio k9
05:36 / 16.12.01
Are you sure this thread is about Comics this week?

First, about the store. I think having a couch and a food bar is an ok idea depending on what type of store you're running. Food just ain't gonna fly if you're worried about the condition of the new comics. When people eat they leave their fingerprints all over everything. Even muffins (mmm...muffins) are greasy. You bag the regular issues but do you bag all trades as well? Food and collectables don't mix. And the couch may lead to friends (or just annoying customers) hanging around your store shoting the shit. Nothing scares away new/ potential comic customers like a D&D inspired sausage fest.

The shop I usually go to bags all of the trades but not the regular issues. He also keeps shit like Orgin, Heros and ASM #36 behind the counter so he can dish them out to customers one at a time (last week I watched him tell a customer that ASM 36 was $10 but if they just wanted to read it they should come back in a couple of weeks when the second printing (does Marvel still do that?) came out. "No, I want this one. Can I get two?" Sure you can, buddy). I know the guy fairly well and I don't feel wierd opening things that aren't factory sealed when I'm in his store. But, last summer, on my way to the ocean, I stopped at a shop in Portland and all of their new issues were bagged with signs that read "please ask before opening bagged comics." <Mr. Pink>Fuck all that.</Mr. Pink> I bought an issue of Rubber Blanket I'd been looking for and looked at the covers of a whole bunch of Oni press stuff. The Oni stuff looked good but at 26 I'm not going to walk across the store to ask permission everytime I want to check something out. It cost them sales.
 
 
bio k9
06:08 / 16.12.01
I wonder why people would give the cold war, raging, self-destructive loners, like the Hulk or Wolverine, so much praise? The maturing Batman (the Frank Miller/Tim Burton-translation consumed all his titles)? The alcoholic, girl-troubled, self-loathing Thing? Godzilla? the Sandman (consorts with devils, creates nightmares, drives folk insane, as required by the job)?
Because its more than a soundbite or a 'cliche'. It's variety and a whole range of writing to choose from within the medium of comics.

I would argue that the "raging, self-destructive loners" are popular with adolesents rather than adults. Same with the girl-troubled, self-loathing Thing (is he really an alcoholic now?). Throw Spidey in there too. These stories have their place. They are meant for young boys. And they should be.

It also told parents, "Whoa, this stuff maybe just for adults. What happened to the old days of corny bank robberies and smiling, photogenic radioactive teenagers?"

My folks didn't say that. Hell, most adults that haven't read comics before woln't read Maus, never mind Batman, because its comics.

But hey, if the Hulk, Hellblazer, and Batman's new clothes did'nt take morality into question (people getting explicitly killed/tortured to death/going insane), and didn't move the medium forward, then I guess we are probably meant to disagree.

The Hulk is just treading the same ground as Godzilla and Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde but in purple short pants. The problem isn't whether or not superhero comics can deal with mature themes, the problem is they fail to do it in a mature manner. And not everone wants to read about people who solve their problems with their fists.
 
 
Sharkgrin
12:01 / 16.12.01
K9, you got me, you got me, you got me. I relented 3 posts ago to Gun Runce on this topic.
IMHO, they broke ground on many adult issues that other genre wouldn't touch 5-6 years ago.
My issue with Flux was something different: over something I saw as a misquote and he saw as an implication.
My first post stated that I thought Lucifer was a new great spin on the Anti-hero. I failed to elaborate on this and I paid the price in arguments over wording.
I explicitly mentioned Sandman, Hellblazer, and Lucifer. I know I stated these as anti-hero examples. I don't think these fall into the solve-problems-by-beating-people-up stories. I stated earlier that they act abberant values and, I meant to imply, incur horrifying social and emotional costs. But, opinions vary, I assume.
Why I think Lucifer is bringing something fresh under the gauze of another grim male power fantasy:
1 - Beneath the uber-controlling, punked out spirit of the title character, it addresses free-will/destiny/determination: fairly fierce topics of that separate common religons and modern spirituality.
2 - SPOILER
Can a human beings live a happily life of free will without belief and faith in a higher power? Will the no-God/gods-here policy force Lucifer to kick everybody out of Paradise? Will anybody want to play Lucifer's little reindeer games after he trys to scare 'faith' out of them?
3 - The maddening, fierce reaction of the Angels (God's ervants) vs. God's gentle patience.
The title illuminates questions of spirituality and free-will like few things I've read in comics.
TTFN, Shark.
 
  

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