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Dark Rumblings

 
  

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Jamieon
15:14 / 18.09.01
From Comics Continuum:

quote: DARK KNIGHT STRIKES AGAIN UPDATE

DC Comics has provided a fuller description of The Dark Knight Strikes Again, the upcoming sequel by Frank Miller and Lynn Varley.

Here's how DC describes the book:

"It's been three years since the events of The Dark Knight Returns, and everything is just fine. Perfect, in fact. At least on the surface. What the world at large doesn't know is that it's a total sham. A perfectly choreographed, pretty little world where everything that's ugly, or even potentially disturbing, is all nicely wrapped up with neat little ribbons and swept under the carpet.

"Only he knows better. He's watched it fester to near-breaking point, and it's time for the only free man left who can effect any real change to bring it all down around their ears, once and for all. It's not gonna be pretty. But at least it'll be honest.

"The Dark Knight returns once again - trimmer, more streamlined, and with a vitality that hasn't been seen since the first years of his war on crime. Together with his army of Bat-soldiers, including Carrie Kelley - formerly Robin, and now the new Catgirl - the Dark Knight wages a new war on a diseased world that's become completely lost. But to fight this war successfully, he must first return to being the World's Greatest Detective and discover what has become of his former allies who were once the World's Greatest Heroes.

"The Dark Knight Strikes Again features surprising appearances by such DC icons as Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Arrow, Martian Manhunter, the Atom, the Question, and more. But are they still the World's Greatest Heroes?"

Said editor Bob Schreck: "I have had the extreme pleasure and honor of knowing and working with Frank and Lynn for several years now. From Sin City to Martha Washington to The Big Guy & Rusty the Boy Robot, each project is approached with a wide-eyed enthusiasm that's as infectious as it is exhilarating. This return to Batman is no exception. They are pouring their hearts and souls onto each and every page and it shows! Together, once again, they are turning the world on its ear, and challenging everything we take for granted with these enduring characters that we 'think' we know so well. From concept, to art style, to coloring and packaging, this book benefits from the 15 years of experience these two comic book mavericks have under their belts since they first made headlines with The Dark Knight Returns. Buckle up, folks!"

Each issue of the three-issue mini-series will be 80 pages. The first issue arrives in stores on Dec. 5.


Lovely christmas prezzie.
 
 
CameronStewart
23:54 / 18.09.01
Eeehhh.....

I ain't convinced.
 
 
DaveBCooper
07:18 / 19.09.01
I'm wary about it, too (didn't someone point out that the last time a creator returned to one of their seminal works, we got Jar-Jar Binks ?), but I think that I'd rather see so-so Miller than a lot of other stuff...

DBC
 
 
Warewullf
07:18 / 19.09.01
Plus it's like, what, £8 per issue?
I'd rather wait for the trade and take a chnace on that.
 
 
Jamieon
07:18 / 19.09.01
I don't expect another Dark Knight, I just expect to be entertained. I don't think that's a particularly tall order. Perhaps your demanding too much from Miller.

And, whatever, the artwork will be nice.

But, as I said, I'm sure this'll be a fun yarn, nevertheless.

And don't you think your naysaying is a little.....predictable?
 
 
DaveBCooper
11:05 / 19.09.01
Predictable ?
Is Cameron on record as not being interested in Frank Miller's work ?

DBC
 
 
Jamieon
12:17 / 19.09.01
I just mean, there are soooo bound to be naysayers. Probably more naysayers than peeps getting excited. I choose to get excited (whilst keeping my expectations checked at a reasonable level), 'cause it's more fun.
 
 
moriarty
13:01 / 19.09.01
I guess I shouldn't base my excitement for a project based on the artist's motivation, but I can't help feeling underwhelmed myself.

Miller has gone on and on about going in new directions and restarting different genres. He's gone on record saying that he's disappointed when his contemporaries are given hard fought freedoms and squander them on corporate characters. He's said repeatedly that comic artists, even if they get their start on characters they didn't make, should, given the chance, break free and stop fucking an older artist's corpse. Also he's denounced what he calls "Nostalgia with a nose ring."

And for the most part he's kept to it. But I guess a 1 million dollar+ paycheck will change anyone's mind.
 
 
Jamieon
13:30 / 19.09.01
You know, for some reason, I so rarely subscribe to the notion that writers/artists/etc whose work I respect and enjoy are "only in it for the money"...

I'm just not that cynical. I respect your right to be, but I'm not. I think it has something to do with objectifying other people and all that - as though they were so unsophisticated that they have one overiding emotion/goal informing their actions. And so what if money's involved? Morrison's on record going on about how he uses his comics to pay the rent and make some cash, but it doesn't stop him writing good stories, does it? It doesn't stop him enjoying and caring about the characters/stories he writes. Why should it stop Miller?

And, as you say, Miller hasn't written a mainstream supeercomic for some time: why shouldn't he go back to it after all these years? He'd probably have some fun with it - like sinking his feet into a nice hot bath.

[ 19-09-2001: Message edited by: runt ]
 
 
moriarty
13:43 / 19.09.01
Point taken. I'm just relating how I am personally disappointed. It could be a fun, creative, heartfelt work of genius, and I could really enjoy it, despite my feelings. Only time will tell. And of course Miller has every right to make some cash, revisit old stomping grounds and remind people who haven't seen him in some time that he's still out there.

It was just that up unitl now he pretty much practiced what he preached, and was a good example of an artist who could make it on his own terms, terms he himself made public.

Hey, my roommate is excited, so it's probably just me. I would rather he was making a Western, though. Now that would be something to look forward to.
 
 
CameronStewart
14:51 / 19.09.01
"The ability to see things as they truly are is often labelled 'cynicism' by those that do not possess it." - Wilde (?)

I'm with Moriarty for all the points he mentions above about Miller's previous statements about artistic integrity - AND I'm further bothered by the fact that this seems completely motivated by money on both Miller's and DC's respective parts. There is absolutely NO good reason why there should be a sequel to The Dark Knight Returns - DKR was The End. As Alan Moore points out in his introduction, all great legends must come to an end, and at the conclusion of DKR Batman is dead*. To bring him back for an encore now is crass, pointless, and completely trivializes the previous story. Death only has significance when it's permanent.

Plus that Catgirl costume is really stupid.

*Yes, I know Bruce Wayne is still alive, before anyone starts...

[ 19-09-2001: Message edited by: CameronStewart ]
 
 
Doctor Sax
15:08 / 19.09.01
Given that Frank Miller is supposed to be writing the screenplay to Batman: Year One the movie right now, maybe he's churning out as many Bat-products as possible. I'm sure a lucrative movie deal for Dark Knight Returns, Dark Knight Comes Back, and Oh, Look, It's The Dark Knight would sit very well in his arse pocket.
 
 
CameronStewart
15:16 / 19.09.01
>>>Oh, Look, It's The Dark Knight<<<

Ba-ha-hah!

Best laugh of the week.
 
 
Jamieon
16:00 / 19.09.01
Oh fuck it, you're right: Miller's only doing this for the money. He couldn't give a shit. Actually he hates Batman....thinks he's a prick....

No other reason for it as far as you can see, but, then again, you're not Frank Miller are you?

Stop being so precious, Cameron: it may be fun. You may like it. Then you can put it down, mull over the wonderful integrity of DKR and the death of heroes and mythic narratives, and forget it ever happened......
 
 
sleazenation
22:01 / 19.09.01
face it Runt- miller has been a ghost of his former self, haunting his previous achievements for the past 10 years.

He is just churning out the same ol'stuff there is no passion there anymore.
 
 
Jamieon
22:17 / 19.09.01
God...

I'm not some massive Miller fan: I couldn't give two shits about Sin City, blah....
All I'm saying is you might enjoy his new stuff. It might be fun to retread that old ground. Face what? The fact I might not. Jeez, I think I'll cope.....

And, whatever, it WILL look good.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
00:01 / 03.10.01
just

face

it.

fuck it - I'm excited too. The truth being:

whenever I open a book by this dude, I see some kinda pictorial narrative used to rather thrilling effect.

I love this chap's word/picture control.

Sgood.

Now go watch yourselves buy this title.

and put it in a mylar when yer dun.
 
 
CameronStewart
00:10 / 03.10.01
>>And, whatever, it WILL look good.<<

Have you seen the same preview images I have?

Miller's sense of narrative is strong, but his actual drawings (at least recently) are some of the most god-awful things put to paper. Women in particular - forget Liefeld, forget Balent, Miller draws the ugliest goddamn women in comics.

[ 03-10-2001: Message edited by: CameronStewart ]
 
 
moriarty
03:15 / 03.10.01
Balent? Are you mad?

Besides, it's not as if every great artist draws people's faces beautifully (cough...Kirby...cough).

The thing that irks me about the preview pics is that godawful technicolour bunk. Lynn, please, save the Photoshop filters for another project.
 
 
deletia
07:36 / 03.10.01
"300" was fucking awful, too.

Ahem.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
10:11 / 03.10.01
Oh. I rather liked it. Too fucking expensive, though... good job I stole it.

RE: the above... think I'll wait for the trade. No offence, but a comic's got to be really fucking impressive to justify those prices.
 
 
CameronStewart
11:53 / 03.10.01
>>>Besides, it's not as if every great artist draws people's faces beautifully (cough...Kirby...cough).<<<

It's not just the faces that Miller draws ugly - his women are grotesquely disproportionate and misshapen, with hips that join to the armpits and huge weightless breasts.

"Oh, but it's just his style..."

So fucking what? It's still an ugly style.
 
 
deja_vroom
15:53 / 03.10.01
hey folks, where can I check the preview images? Ta.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
23:21 / 03.10.01
quote:Originally posted by CameronStewart:
>>And, whatever, it WILL look good.<<

Have you seen the same preview images I have?

Miller's sense of narrative is strong, but his actual drawings (at least recently) are some of the most god-awful things put to paper. Women in particular - forget Liefeld, forget Balent, Miller draws the ugliest goddamn women in comics.

[ 03-10-2001: Message edited by: CameronStewart ]


Did anyone see the preview images on Newsarama? They looked awful. The colouring was terrible. It looked like a disco.

I never thought a sequel was... well, needed anyway. Especially if you're gonna do it in a silly cat costume with humung-O-feet.
 
 
Traz
00:35 / 04.10.01
Jade, Cinescape has a few panels.
 
 
deja_vroom
10:11 / 04.10.01
ok, I have to say this. It's awful. It's one of the ugliest comics pages I've ever seen.
Looks like photoshop vomited.
Not buying it. No no no.

[ 04-10-2001: Message edited by: Jade Emperor ]
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
05:35 / 16.09.04
Read this the other day. God it's appalling on all levels. Now, the story might have been passable if it had been produced a few years after the original DKR, but in the fifteen or so years between we've had 'Kingdom Come' for the 'superheroes getting older and fighting themselves' angle, and 'Earth 2' or 'Our Worlds at War' for the Braniac scheme plan. Now, it could be argued that those were books for comic geeks, but then it doesn't seem as though 'DKR2' has had the crossover appeal of it's predecessors, so it's the same.

And so much of it just sucks. Rather than Clark working for the Government because he either believes or has got hoodwinked in to believing their ideals are his own, he's been blackmailed into working for them by Lex Luthor and Brainiac. Green Lantern has been using the ring for so long that he's able to create a family for himself that don't have any features at all, which must make sex with his 'wife' exciting. And on and on... Oh, and what about that ridiculous Dick Grayson subplot?

And where is that art? Frank Millar doesn't believe in backgrounds any more? Every panel looks like a rough sketch to be properly drawn later, sent on to the inker and colourist by accident. If there is a DK3 then, at this rate of decrease of input from Frank it'll have a one page of text giving you an idea what the story is about and then three issues of blank pages so you can draw your own.
 
 
Simplist
22:41 / 16.09.04
I actually paid good money for the first issue. Most of my comic geek friends had their negative critiques practically pre-written, but I wanted to like it, I really did. But for all the obvious reasons I didn't buy issue two, or even flip through it in the store IIRC. Just a month or so ago I found a copy of the hardcover in the library and checked it out because hey, why not? Good god it was awful. Could a work of narrative fiction this scattered and nonsensical and generally poor even get published in any other medium? Could it get published even in this medium if it was by anyone but Miller? No on both counts, I think...
 
 
The Falcon
00:43 / 17.09.04
I thought it was t3h awesome. The Grayson bit is strange though; is it all 'See, the Batman is not gay' or what?

Mind you, traces of homophobia in Miller's work hardly surprises.
 
 
D Terminator XXXIII
19:15 / 18.09.04
It has been a while since I read the first two installments, but what I thought then was that it was underappreciated.

It apparently still is.

I might hunt down the third one and give a more thorough stance of why this comic is greeat, and why you all are wrong, h8terz!
 
 
_Boboss
08:22 / 19.09.04
you can tell a lot about the general worth of a human being from their response to this comic.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:03 / 20.09.04
Don't be so hard on yourself.
 
 
Benny the Ball
17:53 / 20.09.04
Whispers I quite liked it...

But I hadn't bought a comic for something like five years before this, so was just happy to have something to look at...
 
 
This Sunday
00:50 / 22.09.04
Is it me, or is this ongoing thing about homophobia in Miller's work getting tiring? Has Miller ever supported anything vaguely homophobic or anti-gay? Or is it, because a character says something, it must be the author's opinion? Does this mean he'd like his boyfriend to burn his bullet-hole decorated corpse someday? Orgasm at a piano in front of well-dressed audience? Eat a woman's hand while she watches?
Seriously, if there's a real, Miller himself, backing for this sort of thing, than I'll shut up, sit down, and... mumble under my breath about how I'm right anyway - but, there doesn't seem to be.
Are we to assume Millar hits NYC like a fratboy from hell? Moore guts prostitutes for religious purposes? Morrison does acid on a mesa and talks about bats keeping insects from taking over the world? Ellis likes transhumanist ideas, just because some pink annoying cloud of smart dust hypes a Canadian technofetishist?
Yeah, okeh, there's some cross-over, but still...

To cull this back to what I really wanted to post on: Dammit, I loved this book! Issue one really didn't sell me, but I got the other two for ridiculously cheap in NY, sometime later, and it was so fun! Big, loud, silly... and every time something important is brought up (Political scandal! Child abuse! The change in the world Bats brought on!) it is instantly brushed aside for a big flashy splashpage! Flash's bunny ears, 'children pull on your tights!', the S-shield over ass, the inane popstar newscoverage and commentary... how is this not cool?
But, but, this was already done, with superheroes fighting government, right? Like four times!
And superheroes haven't been beating up muggers and some poor idjit hitting a bong, over and over again? How come there's a limit on how many times one thing happens, but not another?
I even liked the Robin bits at the end. I was probably the only one, but yeah, I liked it. It was funny, poignant, and I mean... if Batman can run with the gods with no powers, nothing other than his brain, his determination, and his shitloads of cash, why can't we all? Aside from the cash, which I don't think Bats absolutely needs, anyway. Like Dane says, in the Invisibles 'I can think of loads better ways to get cash'. And then we get Robin, Dick, who tried to run with the gods and fell behind. He gets modified and enhanced (and let's not turn this into a U-Man-style, is he critiquing/insulting body mod types) and he still can't hack it. Batman demands the best out of everyone, and it's not entirely about doing as he says, either. If someone disobeyed but did better (Robin/Catgirl/Carry/Batmanima to Batman's Batmanimus), I think he'd be proud, rather than ticked. Well, ticked at himself, but that's because it's all his game, his war, his agenda, his duty to save.
The Robin thing was funny, tragic, and involved beheading, so was I sold on it. Batman doesn't want worshipers, he wants a world of equals, and Grayson just couldn't cut it.
And I loved the art! The shapes, the colors, the big loud nonsense of it all! Flash's stupid black running shorts, and Wonder Woman's warrior side coming out in the costume, Superman's continued evolution of shapes and presentation throughout the whole, the bit with The Atom early on... the cover to the third book is the best Batman image I can cull to mind. Purest Batman, I mean.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
08:17 / 22.09.04
Miller did an anti-Clause 28 strip (the Clause, later Section, was legislation to stop promotion of homosexuality in schools as I remember) called "RoboHomophobe" in the late 1980s, for what it's worth.

But he fucked Batman truly up the ass in DK2 so I guess it all evens out in the long run.
 
  

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