BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


The Seven Ages of Comic Buying

 
  

Page: (1)2

 
 
Sax
21:04 / 03.09.01
For some reason, I'm starting to feel dubious about buying comics again. Whether this is an age thing (I'm now 31) or a quality issue (I haven't really found anything to replace The Invisibles, which for a long time was the only comic I was buying, but got me back into them after a long absence) I'm not sure.

Here's how I chart an "average" comic-buying life:

7-11 - unabashed comic buying - graduation from "kids" comics such as Whizzer and Chips and Buster which were generally bought by parents to American superhero comics purchased from the local newsagent.

11-14 - Immersion in superhero mythos, still okay to be seen reading Spiderman and the Justice League of America at school. Drawing pictures of superheroes on the back of your exercise books in class. Slowly become aware that other boys are reading football magazines like Shoot, and that girls don’t read comics at all.

15-16 - Fully aware that girls and comics don’t mix. Qv the young Dan Pussey: "Why can’t there be more girls like Matter-Eater Lass?" Skulking around outside newsagents to buy the X-Men, hoping that you don’t get served by the teenage Saturday girl behind the counter. Buying comics more of an ordeal than buying condoms.

17-18 - Discovery of specialist comic shops, usually tied in with going to college/university. Joyful purchasing of armfuls of direct sales comics, plus indie titles you’ve never heard of before. Watchmen and Dark Knight Returns put comics in the spotlight.

Early 20s - It’s acceptable to read comics again, albeit in a slightly "ironic" fashion as far as everyone else is concerned. Knowingly read "adult themes" into flimsy magazines full of blokes in tights and women with unfeasible figures.

Late 20s - It’s still okay to buy comics, although try to aim for Love & Rockets and "gritty" superhero series. Tuck the latest Spiderman inside a copy of Hate or Eightball. Parents come to visit and see a copy of Invisibles lying around on the coffee table. "Are you still reading this stuff?" asks incredulous Dad. You try to explain the inherent coolness of it all and fail miserably.

30s - Beginning to feel a bit weird in comic shops again. Hang around outside until the coast is clear before ducking in. Pray the bloke in the beard and Metallica T-shirt isn’t going to enter into a conversation with you about the latest issue of Spawn. Weakly try to justify buying comics to friends. Brandish latest issue of Authority and say: "These two characters are gay, you know," in bid to prove comics are now adult and socially aware. Move comics off coffee table when parents come to visit.

So, what happens next?
 
 
Jamieon
21:12 / 03.09.01
Thing is, I'm 25, and I've never felt "weird" in a comic shop. Comics are just as entertaining as any other media/form. Maybe it's because I just don't associate comics with dorkdom: none of my comic reading friends are dorks - all get sex, have a life, look good, some of them ARE girls, etc. To be honest, though, I don't think I'd be embarassed about the comics I like anyway. If I like it, I like it: so what?

Hmmm, I just don't get the embarassment thing.

But, if you were buying Superman..? well, in that case, I'd be prepared to revise my opinion.
 
 
CameronStewart
11:19 / 04.09.01
Yeah, I agree with Runt - I've never once felt embarrassed or ashamed reading comics. Comics are fucking cool.

And I've never experienced anyone looking down their nose at me for my interest in comics, either. I used to get the occasional twinge of awkwardness telling certain people that I draw comics for a living, but instead of tut-tuts and heads shaking in quiet pity, everyone thinks it's fascinating. Women think it's sexy.

The problem lies within thee....

[ 04-09-2001: Message edited by: CameronStewart ]
 
 
sleazenation
11:28 / 04.09.01
never been ashamed of comics-- very occasionally by the places i have to go to buy comics but not by comics themselves.
 
 
Sax
11:33 / 04.09.01
Quite likely, Cameron. I grew up in an environment where I had no comic-reading friends, and while my family were tolerant, comics weren't considered to have any value, although literature generally was. I think I was always vaguely made to feel that they were a waste of money as well.

Everyone else is lucky, I suppose, to grow up without this stigma. I remember more than once being called "a puff" for reading comics at my high school. Although, having said that, many years laterl, an old boy of my school threatened to beat up a friend of mine visiting from out of town who he saw reading the Guardian in a pub, and levelled the same insult at him, so there you go.

Ee, I 'ad it tough when I were a lad.
 
 
deletia
11:46 / 04.09.01
quote:Originally posted by CameronStewart:
Women think it's sexy.
[ 04-09-2001: Message edited by: CameronStewart ]


Yeah. After all, were Warren Ellis and co. not hard-drinking sexmonsters dancing with all the good-looking girls at discos?

I think to claim that there is no dork element in comics fandom is patently lunatic. It may be more useful to wonder whether it is actually any larger than the dork element in many other pastimes.
 
 
Jamieon
12:00 / 04.09.01
I don't think anyone was claiming that, just that we don't feel like dorks, etc. and that groovy people like them too.
 
 
DaveBCooper
12:22 / 04.09.01
No need to feel ashamed in reading comics, I think - just another way of telling stories, right?

I've had girlfriends who haven't understood them (and one who had trouble reading them, interestingly enough), but most have been fine about it. Same with my parents.
Just sling 'em a copy of Promethea or somesuch if they think the medium makes them inherently 'for kids'. If they won't even bother to read 20-odd pages to see what you're interested in, then maybe that tells us who the fault lies with.

And whilst comic shops can be dodgy and smelly etc (recent article in the Guardian newspaper about a woman's visit to Forbidden Planet London was on this theme, and rang very true - I've been reading comics for as long as I can remember; my fondness for the medium doesn't blind me to the painful truth), they can also be perfectly okay - if I was you, Sax, I'd look for a shop you feel more comfortable with, or into mail order or whatever.

But you sound like a smart type, and heaven knows we don't need to lose any more intelligent readers from the marketplace...

DBC
 
 
moriarty
12:25 / 04.09.01
Haus, Cameron was talking about the inherent sexiness of drawing comics, not reading them. Women go for the penciller's barely contained energy coupled with their attention to detail and a strong foundation in anatomy. Inkers have that soft, steady hand, and a humble demeanor that hides their unmatched expertise.

Don't even get me started on letterers.

Shiver.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:27 / 04.09.01
I'd agree that there is nothing inherently uncool or childish or silly or geeky about the medium of comics. However if comics are perceived to be any of these things, I think the blame lies largely with the comics industry, including a certain proportion of comics readers (or worse, "collectors").
 
 
CameronStewart
12:49 / 04.09.01
>>>After all, were Warren Ellis and co. not hard-drinking sexmonsters dancing with all the good-looking girls at discos?<<<

Can't speak for Ellis, but at the risk of sounding completely and repellently narcissistic, yeah, I am. I avoid all the trappings of fanboyism, I dress fashionably and have good personal hygeine, I'm good looking and know how to dance, and at the moment I'm pleased to report that I'm spoiled for choice for beautiful girls who want to sleep with me.

Of course, you do have to take my word on all this, but it's true...

>>>I think to claim that there is no dork element in comics fandom is patently lunatic.<<<

I make no such claim - of course there is.
You just have to keep it in check.

>>>It may be more useful to wonder whether it is actually any larger than the dork element in many other pastimes.<<<

At the WizardWorld convention in Chicago a few weeks ago, the hotel was also playing host to BeatleFest - hundreds of people dressed in Sergeant Pepper outfits, playing guitars and all singing along to "Nowhere Man" in the bar. Two distinct groups of obsessives gathered in the same place.

The difference being that at least our Beatles showed up to the con...

[ 04-09-2001: Message edited by: CameronStewart ]
 
 
deletia
12:51 / 04.09.01
quote:Originally posted by moriarty:
Haus, Cameron was talking about the inherent sexiness of drawing comics, not reading them. Women go for the penciller's barely contained energy coupled with their attention to detail and a strong foundation in anatomy. Inkers have that soft, steady hand, and a humble demeanor that hides their unmatched expertise.

Don't even get me started on letterers.

Shiver.



Actually, I have just come.

Although, flyboy, is that really the fault of the industry, or of a media which steadfastly refuses to look at the groovy, grown-up bit of comics - like Borders may stock "adult" graphic novels, they tend to be shelved with all the others alphabetically - instead of the foul, milk-smelling Kevin Smith element?
 
 
z3r0
14:26 / 04.09.01
I used to read all the comic books I could get my hands on when I was a kid. But I grew up to see that either I got smarter or the stories just got dumber, because I could not get involved anymore with that stupid plots (Thanos jewels, cosmic nulificators etc) and bad drawing (talking about mainstream comics, superman, x-men and such).
What made me come back to reading it was probably Watchmen and the Vertigo line.

In the same storey where I work there is this huge comic shop, full of imported comics, tps and european albums, and I go there to kill time once in a while, but it almost never buy anything, is still 80% crap, with all that golden, holographic covers... :P
You guys are lucky cos you can get more diversity and interesting comics at cheaper prices...
 
 
deletia
15:32 / 04.09.01
OK, I am going to resist any comment on the fact that "good personal hygeine" is meant to be a selling point, when it is generally considered entry level, which may in itself say something about the wacky world of comics. I'm not even going to mutter "'girls'? Oy gevalt". Because I am realising over time that there really is no point. Besides, maybe they actually are too young to vote. Who knows?

Besides, thinking of Thanos' jewels has made me come again.

Big, heavy, pendulous....jewels...

[ 04-09-2001: Message edited by: The Haus of Willow ]
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
15:44 / 04.09.01
quote:Originally posted by The Haus of Willow:
Although, flyboy, is that really the fault of the industry, or of a media which steadfastly refuses to look at the groovy, grown-up bit of comics - like Borders may stock "adult" graphic novels, they tend to be shelved with all the others alphabetically - instead of the foul, milk-smelling Kevin Smith element?


The Guardian says: Chris Ware is a genius!

Hip fashion mags say: Daniel Clowes is cool!

Wizard says: oooh! Elektra's arse!
 
 
deletia
15:47 / 04.09.01
Ah. Right. Not a bad point. I'm afraid I've never really read Wizard. But the Guardian also says "Forbidden Planet is full of scary milk-stinking boys!"...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
15:52 / 04.09.01
I've never read Wizard either - I get put off by the covers, which tend to feature, um, Elektra's arse.

That particular piece in the Guide wasn't very good, but then those features in the Guide seldom are. I thought it was quite ironic that it was illustrated by Jonathan Wosname...

Although why the woman writing it didn't just get a copy from a sodding bookshop is beyond me. Or go to Gosh, at the very least.
 
 
Not Here Still
16:31 / 04.09.01
Jonathan Williams. Lives round the corner from me, apparently.

The piece in the Guide was just another one of those bits of lazy, Daily-Mail style journalism where someone goes with an idea and looks for evidence to support it rather than the facts, if you ask me.

Speaking about the seven ages of comic buying, I only really came into comics (ahem) at the fourth 'age' - my early 20s - at University, after discovering that these books I thought were all about Superman beating Zorgan the Magnificent could actually be quite good.

I took the usual, Neil Gaiman is actually alright isn't he? - In fact he's like literature! - Is there anyone else like him -Ooh, Alan Moore's good too, and this guy, and this one - Oh shit, I've just spent £50 on comics? route.

Having said that, I am aware of the spoddy reputation. I'm also aware that I'm a lot spoddier when it comes to music, and talking about obscure Detroit techno, Northern Soul or dub reggae can be just as 'geeky' to most people.

So what? To paraphrase another book - about Richard Feynman, someone else people think you're a dweeb for being interested in - What do I care what other people think? Fuck 'em

[ 04-09-2001: Message edited by: JB again ]
 
 
sleazenation
16:47 / 04.09.01
The artist illustrating the recent Guardian article was Jonathan EDWARDS who contributed some strips to deadline to the anthology its dark in london and who did the comic Aunt Connie and the plague of beards.

The journalism may not have been as well researched as it might have been but the mysterious 'dolly' at least steped into the bleak forbidden planet. As long as Forbidden Planet continues to occupy its high profile location on new oxford street it will continue to occupy a similar pre-eminent position in the mind of the public and the Guardian hacks that pass it daily to get tothe Toni&Guy Salon located next door...
 
 
CameronStewart
17:01 / 04.09.01
>>>Besides, maybe they actually are too young to vote.<<<

And what the fuck is that supposed to mean?
 
 
bio k9
17:26 / 04.09.01
quote:Originally posted by The Haus of Willow:

...the foul, milk-smelling Kevin Smith element?


I always imagined Kevin Smith would smell of Doritos and Mountain Dew.
 
 
moriarty
17:27 / 04.09.01
Actually, he smells pretty good, despite the cigarettes.
 
 
Not Here Still
17:52 / 04.09.01
originally posted by Sleazenation:

The artist illustrating the recent Guardian article was Jonathan EDWARDS who contributed some strips to deadline to the anthology its dark in london and who did the comic Aunt Connie and the plague of beards.

Fuckery, you're right. I have managed to make myself look like an absolute tit. Ah well. Humble apologies and all that shit. Call me a wanker all you like.

He does still live round the corner from me, though - as does a Jonathon Williams

Did he write Aunt Connie and the Plague of Beards himself? I know he did one with a guy from near me called Richard Holland, and I really want to see that, though I'm not sure how widespread the publishing was.

I'd really like to see more of his comics work, as well...
 
 
deletia
06:23 / 05.09.01
quote:Originally posted by CameronStewart:
>>>Besides, maybe they actually are too young to vote.<<<

And what the fuck is that supposed to mean?



It means, Cameron, that calling women "beeeee-oooootiful girls" strips them of the dialogues of empowerment and maturity with which an adult might wish to credit those grown-up enough to make decisions about who they want to make love to. Which is especially dodgy because these "beautiful girls" have ben pulled into the conversation purely in terms of how much they want to sleep with you, so to create them as constructs of sexual desire while simultaneously refusing to credit them with womanhood is...well, pretty ideologically dodgy.

'Zat simple.
 
 
sleazenation
06:42 / 05.09.01
Sorry if i came accross a bit pedantic there JB almost did a Dr. Dougie haus-er on you
 
 
Sax
08:20 / 05.09.01
quote:Originally posted by runt:
I don't think anyone was claiming that, just that we don't feel like dorks, etc. and that groovy people like them too.


I would argue that by contributing to a bulletin board about comics we - and yes, I do count myself in all this - are of the more dorky element, as groovy as we all undoubtedly are (hey, I'm wearing Calvin Klein undies).

And before anyone says it, I do know that this is a bulletin board about an awful lot of things other than comics, but most people came here via the Invisibles and there have been a lot of threads about X-Men and the Fantastic Four recently.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:20 / 05.09.01
"I imagined some girl and I talking about the new Lord Of The Rings movie," Melcher said. "Then I could say, 'Oh, I have the trailer on my laptop back in my hotel room if you want to see it. I was also thinking it'd be really cool if I was up against some girl in a trivia contest, and it came down to us battling it out neck-and-neck... I could definitely see things getting heated in a situation like that."

Harr-harr.
 
 
deletia
10:31 / 05.09.01
I think the question here is not so much "Are you a dork/a stud" (although I feel an "are you hot or not" thread coming on") or indeed "Are comics fans in general dorks/studs", just because the answer, yes, some comics fans are a bit geeky but then others aren't so it's sort of yes and no and thern there are gradations of geekiness beyond that so, you know, on the whole it depends, is pretty much a gimme.

It's more about how your attitude to comics, and the dorkness/geekiness of them, has changed with age. So, to atone for dragging this thread offtopic, here are my "ages of comic buying".

4-7 or thereabouts. Kids' comics - Whizzer and Chips, the Beano, such stuff, much of it inherited from my father (along with the odd Frank Hampton Eagle). Utterly unselfconscious.

7-11 (approx) Started reading the denatured, 80s Eagle, dropped fairly quickly, although Doomlord fucking kicked ass, and 2000AD. First real introduction to superheroes through the A4-sized, cheap'n'nasty Secret Wars issues. Beginnings of a truly monster crush on Nightcrawler. Note that at this stage all these are purchases made in a common-or-garden newsagent, along with occasional American imports on the newsstands for about 50p a shot. Happy times...

12-14 or so. Started reading Claremont/Davies Excalibur, although absence of comic shops in home town made consumption sporadic. See crush on Nightcrawler above. Also (I think this is about the right timescale) read Watchmen, V for Vendetta...started to appreciate Alan Moore (he knows the score). I suppose Transformers straddled these periods as well...memory...hazy....again, newstand stuff.

(CRISIS fits somewhere around here, I guess - read the first 20 or so issues)

14-19 Bit of a dormant period. Read Deadline and 2000AD, occasionally picked up interesting-looking stuff. Never really had enough focus to do the comic-book geek thing. I liked the compactness of American comics, and the pretty colours, but the quality seemed low and I was never sufficiently focussed to go big - dabbled in manga, odd issues of comics &c, but never passionately. Certainly wouldn't read comics in school, except Deadline.

19-25 Got into a relationship with one of the coolest human beings ever, whose previous boyfriend had sold her an absolute shitload of comics on a kind of pawnshop arrangement. And thus was I undone...read the back issues of the Sandman, Shade, which compelled me to acknowledge the divinity of Peter Milligan, and the Invisibles. Got vaguely talking to comics geeks on the interwebnet, became intrigued by the sheer vastness of the continuity, looked at recommended stuff like Luther Arkwright, other Vertigo things, stuff by writers from 2000AD and Deadline - the above, Smith, Dorkin...also started to reindulge long-running love of superheroes, having the good fortune to be around at about the right time for the Ellis Excalibur, DV8 and Stormwatch and the Morrison JLA. Relaised fairly quickly, thankfully before bankruptcy set in, that most American comics were utter shit, but still occasionally dragged along by affection for characters when writers leave a title. Comic consumptin tailing off now, partly because there are too many books I want to read, but I still have a recognisable "habit".

But one thing that did get me when I got back into comics was that, although some of the product was very cool, the environments were not. The only real comics shop in my university town was a classic of the genre - dark and musty and ugly. And the only people I ever looked at in that shop and thought, "hey, I'd like to know that person better" were people I was there with.

Same experience in London, basically. Although comics and their adherents may not be entirely dorky, they are certainly not (for me) aspirational, and I don't feel any desire for a sense of community - the only conversations I ever have about comics really are with the people who talk about them here. Maybe it's just London, or just particular shops (Gosh!, which I rarely get a chance to go to, is held up as something of a holy grail), but I am becoming acutely conscious of how...wrong comics shops feel, and how odd the structures of "fandom" seem to be. And who the hell arranges product according to publisher, and then according to title? Madness, I say...
 
 
mondo a-go-go
12:16 / 05.09.01
time to inject some femininity into this debate.

you're all talking bollocks of course. i happen to know that you all smell of milk. unlike me, who smells of lilies and rosepetals and chocolate sauce.
 
 
DaveBCooper
14:24 / 05.09.01
That's simply not the case.
I smell of... well, pheremones aren't noticed by the conscious mind, are they ? In that case, I don't smell.
But you'll find me oddly alluring... well, that's what the advert said, and I paid £30 for what looks like a small vial of urine.
The adverts in the back of Viz wouldn't lie to me, would they ?

DBC
 
 
deletia
06:54 / 06.09.01
(Part 2)

But then, is the scent of milk, metaphorical or literal, any less strong in specialist record shops, or specialist bookshops, or whatever? Is our original poster singling out comics fandom as increasingly embarrassing unfairly, due to received media?

Or is it something to do with dilution? To take Cameron's Beatles example, the conventioneers at both conventions were scary obsessives. However, there are a lot of stages along the Beatles-liking continuum, whereas you very rarely hear someone say "yeah, I have The Dark Knight Returns, but none of the other stuff". Or do you? Maybe I hang out in the wrong crowd. Are there utterly casual comics owners of the "I have the Best Of and Sergeant Pepper" variety, or is it sufficiently difficult to get into the form (specialist shops, specialist press, small "footprint" in the mainstream, and mainstream display space often filled by people with limited knowledge of comics themselves) that there is no point in doing it unless you get a little bit obsessive?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:29 / 06.09.01
Well, yeah. I don't own everything Grant Morrison's ever done, and he's probably my favourite comics writer... I can't sustain a books habit and a music habit as well without making some sacrifices, so I don't own Dark Knight Returns, I rarely if ever get my comics on the day they come out, I sometimes go weeks without buying any, I don't strike up a friendly geek conversation with my local dealer, I don't keep my comics in individually sealed mylar bags.

Then again, I also try to avoid saying I liked bands "before they were big"...
 
 
deletia
08:40 / 06.09.01
...which I did, incidentally. Everything.

I wonder if there is a kind of Geek-Q thing out there. Like, knwoing who Aquaman is is probably OK, because he;s fairly iconic, fairly kitsch, int he Superfriends and has been written by Grant Morrison. But knowing who Tempest is? Or that Power Girl has turned out to be an Atlantean?

And Fly, give us the benefit of your experience - are music shops for the hardcore as bad as comic shops?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:43 / 06.09.01
Honestly: not quite. Gosh!, it has to be said, is a lot more pleasant and well-lit and inviting than many record stores. But no record store has ever reached the levels of iniquity to be found in your average Forbidden Planet. And Forbidden Planet is to comics (in the UK at least) what HMV is to music and Borders is to books, in terms of visibility - think about that and things get kinda scary...
 
 
deletia
08:45 / 06.09.01
Actually, that is pretty horrible to contemplate.

But why is it so nasty? Is it because the patrons will tolerate it, or because the patrons demand it?
 
  

Page: (1)2

 
  
Add Your Reply