BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


The late comics problem

 
  

Page: (1)2

 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
12:59 / 06.07.01
I've read a lot of comics news sites, and fan reactions on those sites, and I've noticed a growing resentment from the fans for late work from their favorite writers and artists... I can't help but feel that it is the fans who complain who are in the wrong and not the creators. If the fans want the quality of work, I think they should be willing to wait for it... It's probably time to drop the idea of monthly books, really. I think it would be best either in some cases like Morrison-Quitely's X-Men and other late shipping comics to ship every three or four months a full length graphic novel release and drop the monthly comic, and put more promotion on them. This would cut out the middle man, and make the comics much more accessable than they were in monthly installments. Either that, or have a weekly or biweekly schedule collected in a larger magazine format like 2000AD or Heavy Metal...

any thoughts?
 
 
Mr Tricks
17:14 / 06.07.01
Well . . . who buys comics monthly anymore anyway???

Comics is a weekely thing for me . . . each wednesday I'm in the shop picking up my fix.

the idea of larger BOOKS comming out over a longer period of time is valid. However keep in mind ONE major factor in the publishing of Periodicials.

Advertising Most of the money made from publishing (in my experience Magazines, but I figure comics are not too far off) comes from the ad pages sold in each issue. This is the main movavation to have a book appearing on the newstands regularly. You bet the ad space in X-men is going o attrack more $$$ than the ad space in Kabuki . . . or whatever else.

Still I think there should be a way to work it . . . the "fill-in" issue is almost extinct these days . ..
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
22:17 / 06.07.01
you're totally right, I was completely neglecting the advertising. silly me. I imagine they make more money from advertising than anything else, like any other periodical...

Maybe they could split the difference and have the long form comics come out quarterly, but still have advertising, meaning they wouldn't be proper trade paperbacks.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
17:19 / 07.07.01
Call me foolish, but shouldn't a monthly comic be obligated to come out, you know, monthly? If not, then they should admit they can't handle it and go bi-monthly or something, after all, what's the point of publishing the Radio Times a week after the week it has listings for? And then there was Marvel, five or six years ago where you could tell when a special issue of your X-title was coming because it would be a month late and the events that occured in it were being discussed in another issue... Does anyone else remember the fun over the Cable miniseries that was supposed to lead into generic x-crossover?

As long as comics companies pretend they're putting out monthly titles then fans have a perfect right to complain if they are even a week late.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
02:15 / 08.07.01
My feeling is that if you ship a book on a date other than when you said you would, you are taking money from a retailer's pocket.

And you caused a lot of the comics bust.

Retailers have a budget. In that budget they have fixed costs to pay for, as well as the comics themselves, and in a slumping market, they order enough that they can pay their bills, yet not so much that they have tons of product on a shelf that goes unbought.

Over the winter, comics that were being published dropped to the point where my local said that during February, if everything would have come out on time, and bought by the people who ordered it, he could have made a profit. But, late books meant that money he was counting on in that month, didn't come in. Sure, it trickled in over the next three months, but there weren't enough books to generate profit to pay for the heat bill.

The money that said local is counting on from a promised New X-Men issue doesn't come in. AND because he budgeted for those X-Men issues, instead of say, a toy line or graphic novels, he can't just make it up elsewhere...

And this is going to start becoming a VERY hot issue in the next few months when sales cool off again in October for the Winter slump.
 
 
Sandfarmer
03:50 / 08.07.01
Id rather they be good than be on time.

For example, I'm a huge Star Wars fan. I waited 16 years between Return of the Jedi and Episode One and to tell the truth, I wish George had taken another year or so if it would have meant he would have fixed the bad edits and that horrible fucking shot where the kid misses the high five. You spend years adding digital effects and you don't notice Obi-Wan's hair braid thingy is on the wrong side of his head in one shot?

I'm also a Paul Pope fan. You just can't be a Paul Pope fan and expect comics to come out on a regular basis.

As far as the retailers getting jipped, I guess that is a valid arguement that they should come out when they are solicited. However, at the shop my friend owns, they don't pay the invoices until the comic comes out so its not like they are in the hole. I know from managing a retail store myself that it sucks when product ships late but you just have to learn to expect that and not put all your eggs in one basket. This happens in every retail business. Probably less in comics shops. I honestly thing the biggest problem with most comic shops and why they go under is not the comic book industry but that a lot of shops are just ran by guys who want to run comic shops, not guys who want to run a successful business.

From my experience in retail, I would say that more often than not, if a really hot product ships late you actually get more business out of it thanks to all the customers who come in the shop looking for the late product each week. The pick up odds and ends until the thing finally comes out.

Maybe you didn't sell the 100 copies of X-Men you were waiting on but maybe the customer blew an extra $2.50 on some other comic they never read before. Then next month when the fucking X-Men finally ships, they buy it and the new comic too. You have to be in it for the long haul in retail.

[ 08-07-2001: Message edited by: Sandfarmer ]
 
 
sleazenation
03:50 / 08.07.01
I wasn't going to reply to this thread because , as Contle points out, moaning about late books is seen as being the preserve of the whining fanboy.

But I have got to say that if a publisher sets a monthly scedule they are being blatently unprofessional if they then don't keep to it - As a freelancer If I missed a deadline I would not be be comissioned by that publisher again.

Other industries a monthly schedule means monthly- Circulation figures are audited to ensure any title that claims to be monthly does indeed publish 12 issues per year. A guarenteed regular schedule also helps build confidence in advertisers that if they choose to advertise say a film in your comic that comic will come out before the film has fonished showing. It is sad to see when you pick up, say, the average DC book how few pages are actually filled by paying advertisers as opposed to non-paying house ads for other DC comics- and irregular scheduling does not help matters.

If you can't keep to a monthly schedule then don't accept the work. The quality of your work will be left intact and so will your reputation for professionalism
 
 
Ronald Thomas Clontle
11:44 / 08.07.01
quote:Originally posted by sleazenation:


If you can't keep to a monthly schedule then don't accept the work. The quality of your work will be left intact and so will your reputation for professionalism



I agree about this...there's a certain level of professionalism that should be maintained. I never remember Marvel comics being anything more than a week late up until the past few years... I'm still surprised that they've let it get this badly out of hand.

They could have easily avoided this New X-Men mess, because that last storyline before the big switchover that Lobdell was writing was cut by over 70 pages so that the New X-Men would debut in May with all of the other revamped books. If they compromised this, and let Scott have one more issue to flesh out his story, which in the way it was published/realized was AWFUL and incomprehensible, they could have had the New X-Men issues in the can quicker, and Scott maybe could have made his crappy final story a bit better.

I'm surprised that they don't do mandatory fill-in issues anymore..just to avoid possible legal problems.

Hell, they could have put out an issue in the interim like a television "clip show", just have an issue that goes through the X_Men's history an explains continuity to people. That could be helpful.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
19:07 / 08.07.01
Unfortunately the Star Wars example is utterly irrelevent, it being a film not a comic, it being 'sold' through cinemas not comic shops, and any related merchandise being an extra to a comic shops stock, not part of its regular stock, but otherwise...
 
 
the Fool
23:10 / 08.07.01
I'm prepared to wait for comics. I wait for Planetary, endlessly. But it is worth it. 100 Bullets on the other hand seems to come out like clockwork, and I'm overjoyed to get such a regular fix.

The Authority has made me wait as well. And at the moment, its not worth it. Authority had a lot of momentum behind it but waiting six months (or whatever ridiculous time period that was involved) for the next installment killed it all. This fill-in arc is just not pressing those JamesCameron200milliondollaractionmoviepermonth buttons the way it should.

summary: I'll wait if I have to, but I'd prefer not to. Waiting longer doesn't instantly mean 'better comic'.
 
 
Sandfarmer
22:36 / 09.07.01
I was speaking from the viewpoint of the fan who choses quality over speed in regards to the Star Wars example. I could give a fuck less if advertisers are pissed off. Does the world really need its video game adds to come out on time?
 
 
Stephen
10:05 / 10.07.01
If those video game ad's are what finances the entire comic industry, then the answer is yes.

quote:I wait for Planetary, endlessly. But it is worth it.

I disagree. I think the long waits have killed Planetary simply due to the lack of density in each episode. You wait 4 months for an issue in which hardly anything of any substance happens, then it's another 4 month wait for more of the same.
 
 
Janean Patience
09:09 / 03.01.07
Resurrecting an old thread to discuss lateness in comic books and whether it actually harms the book. We're all far too wonderful and perceptive here to recycle those old messageboard cliches about lazy spoilt prima donna artists sitting around on PlayStation (please note: this part of the cliche may now have been upgraded to a next-generation console) when they should be slaving hard at a drawing board for THE FANS.

As many posters state in the vintage thread above, I'd rather wait for a comic to be done properly, with the original artist at what they feel is the right pace, than get a fill-in issue. Watchmen and Dark Knight were both late, after all, and it didn't do them any harm. The collected work is stronger for a few delays, according to this alternative wisdom, and that's what will last. The tens of thousands of people who buy League of Extraordinary Gentlemen in bookstores couldn't give a fuck that singles buyers were left hanging for months. In fact they get a rather amusing piece by Moore and O'Neill about said lateness, so bonus for them.

There are series that it's harmed, however. Up this thread there are complaints about the lateness of Planetary being made in 2001. It's still not finished. When it came out it was a sensation, the idea of repackaging all the fantastic fiction of the 20th century into a secret history of a world, pastiches and tributes in every issue and led by archaeologists. The idea was better than the execution, perhaps, but the execution wasn't half bad.

With Planetary yet to conclude, it's already irrelevant. The fashion has moved on. That pastiche thing has been done to death - the Authority fought the Avengers, the Justice League fought the Authority, etc. Everyone's bored of that idea of treating the fictions like they're real, and the series itself has lost all impact because it trickles out so slowly. All novelty spent, it's not substantial enough to be worth the wait.

IMO a similar thing happened with Seven Soldiers. If it had all happened fast enough the flaws and the first-draft writing might have been obscured by the rush of ideas and Silver Age magic. When it started to slow up the holes were more than obvious. Waiting an extra six months for a conclusion that didn't bother to answer the questions raised in the series was thoroughly underwhelming.

Then there's the All-Star line. Launched with much attendant publicity, eagerly awaited, the publishing schedule of ASSBAT leaves the comics public largely indifferent to it. If it was coming out monthly, the story would at least have the chance to redeem itself. Instead it's ossified, the characterisation missteps passed around the internet until they're the only moments anyone remembers. ASS Superman has a better reaction on here, and at least has been consistently sporadic, but there's no real buzz about it. It appears to be popular among people who like that kind of thing. Which is exactly the opposite of what it hoped to be.

On the trades thread, inspiring this post, was a rant Boboss stole from elsewhere:

ULTIMATE WOLVERINE VS HULK shipped an issue back in February, and then fell off the face of the earth. The book has now officially been cancelled altogether, and Marvel claim it'll be resolicited at a later date. I don't believe a word of it. I think it's another Daredevil: Target. The actual content is rather good, but the absurd delays have long since overshadowed that... The idea that a book can run over a year late because, hey, shit happens, is a ridiculous one, and yet it's essentially the only explanation Marvel ever offer, usually in a slightly hurt "How dare you expect us to deliver books on time?" kind of a way.... they've been cossetted for years by a cottage industry that thinks it's a publishing giant, and encouraged by fans so desperate to believe that Comics Are Art that they'll accept the most ludicrous delays on the most absurd action comics as a sign of artistic integrity. This business needs to grow up.

Is lateness harming the industry? Is it harming individual comics? Will the battle between Hulk and Wolverine only be resolved in slash fiction? Whaddya think?
 
 
sleazenation
14:19 / 03.01.07
Is lateness harming the industry? Depends what you mean by 'the industry' I guess.

Increasingly, mainstream book publishers are getting into the grapphic novels market and the see no reason to take responsibility for pre-serialization the contents of graphic novels. What pre-serialization there is seems to be down to the comics creators themselves. I'm not sure what, if any, advance payments are being made in order to finance the creator's through the creation of the comic book, but what does appear to be clear is that what ever the rturn on pre-serialization comic books, it is not something that particularly motivates the Bertelsmans and Hodder Headlines and Houghton Mifflins to enter into what would be for them a new method of production and distribution.

Meanwhile traditional comic book companies are still largely sticking with comics a means to pre-serialize and publish. They have long been geared to produce and distribute comics in this fashion and continue to do so. But they are no longer the sole means of distribution for narratives in a comic strip form.

Many cartoonists find work outside of comics to be more lucrative, renumerative and less labour intensive, thus, their work schedule regarding their comics narratives are somewhat subserviant to their other commitments.
 
 
Spaniel
14:56 / 03.01.07
I'm not sure lateness is harming the industry (and by the industry I mean Marvel and DC, which, granted, is a rather limited, perhaps unsatisfactory definition, but the definition which I feel is most pertinent to the discussion thus far), because the comic buying community allows the big two to get away with shockingly unprofessional behaviour that simply wouldn't be tolerated elsewhere. This pisses me off because it affects, in a concrete way, my enjoyment of serialized comics - I'm not going to go over the reasons why yet again, I've done more than enough of that elsewhere, and besides we all know the arguments.

Now, as ever, there will be those reading this that want to say "it doesn't bother me" or "sometimes you have to wait for quality" or some other defensive nonsense, to that stuff I can only answer "fuck off". It clearly bothers lots and lots of people and helps undermine if not ruin their fun, and, you know, it's just not bloody necessary, it doesn't have to be this way, you only think it does. Not with LOEG, not with Planetary, not with Seven Soldiers, not with the Ultimates, not with AXM, not with Civil War, not with any of it.

In the world of Boboss consistently late comics are only gonna get read after I've downloaded them. I'm just not going to pay for that shit.
 
 
The Natural Way
17:03 / 03.01.07
So you won't be buying ASS then?
 
 
Billuccho!
17:20 / 03.01.07
Yeah, I don't give a shit about lateness. I don't go to the shop regularly and I'm happy to wait for something to come out. In the long run, it probably saves me money.

And I still love the singles format.
 
 
Spaniel
17:40 / 03.01.07
Ah, now ASS is a slightly different kettle of fish in that I think the individual issues stand alone quite nicely - a rare thing in today's mainstream comic market.

That said, it's lateness does annoy me and, again, I just don't see the need for it.

Bill, without wishing to have a go, or overstate the annoyance caused by our pet industry's publishing practices, your stance pisses me off because you seem to be ignoring the fact that other people are having their enjoyment undermined. Even if it didn't bother me I think I might be concerned about that.
 
 
Billuccho!
18:09 / 03.01.07
The only upsetting thing about late comics, for me, is that it hurts the retailers quite often.

But personally, as a reader, I have no problem with it. I understand the pressures on the creators and their perfectionism. Or laziness, whichever.

If one's enjoyment is so hampered by a comic showing up a couple weeks or months late, maybe they need to lighten up. If not, there's the joy of rereading in anticipation for the next one.
 
 
Spaniel
18:42 / 03.01.07
But personally, as a reader, I have no problem with it

Yes, we know that you don't have a problem with it, what I'm asking you to imagine is that someone else might, and that their reasons for having a problem (or five) aren't entirely unreasonable or particularly difficult to understand.
You know, this shit doesn't keep me up at night, it just pisses me off and fucks with my fun.

As for laziness and/or the creative process, lateness ismore to do with editorial policy than artistic temperament, if you ask me. The fact that you raised it as an explanation suggests just how skewiff the mainstream comics industry has become- in other creative industries deadlines and/or release dates are not dictated by artistic whim.
 
 
Spaniel
18:44 / 03.01.07
The only upsetting thing about late comics, for me, is that it hurts the retailers quite often.

And, you know, if that's true that's a pretty serious reason to have a problem with it.

Bill, I have to ask, why are you posting in this thread?
 
 
diz
20:20 / 03.01.07
My feeling is that if you ship a book on a date other than when you said you would, you are taking money from a retailer's pocket.

That's not necessarily a bad thing. I mean, I like the guy who owns my LCS, and I wish him well with his business, but to look at the larger picture, we're still totally glutted with a surplus of comic shops, and comics can't get out to a larger audience because they're trapped in the Direct Market ghetto. The industry needs a purge, I'm sorry to say, and the majority of local comics shops kind of need to go under.

At least, that's the case in the US. I have no idea about the world of retail comics stores in the UK or anywhere else.
 
 
CameronStewart
00:42 / 04.01.07
>>>In the world of Boboss consistently late comics are only gonna get read after I've downloaded them. I'm just not going to pay for that shit.<<<

As much as I agree with you that lateness is inexcusable, I can't endorse your statement here. If you can't tolerate lateness and want to vote with your wallet, by all means cease buying the guilty comics - but you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't arbitrarily decide that you have the right to still READ the comics, but not pay for them, merely because they don't hit the schedules.

Late comics are fucking up the industry, to be sure, and it's frustrating, and there's no excuse - but you're not entitled to them, and if you're downloading them, you're part of the problem too.
 
 
Planet B
00:48 / 04.01.07
we're still totally glutted with a surplus of comic shops, and comics can't get out to a larger audience because they're trapped in the Direct Market ghetto. The industry needs a purge, I'm sorry to say, and the majority of local comics shops kind of need to go under.

I've bought comics in Kansas City, St. Louis, Chicago and New York and I don't know where you get this. Can you explain? Most shops I've been to are pretty good and find niches (Chicago Comics and Star Clipper come to mind). But the delays put a definite hurt on them and are as unprofessional as you'll find in ANY industry. I just don't understand why it's acceptable. Or why you think comics shops should be disappearing. I've had too many times when I couldn't even find a comic shop, so I can't agree with that at all.

The only reason the retailers put up with it, is because they don't have any choice. Maybe they should all protest for one month and just not do any pre-orders. (Or something. that's just off the top of my head.)
 
 
Billuccho!
02:21 / 04.01.07
You know, this shit doesn't keep me up at night, it just pisses me off and fucks with my fun.

You know, downloading comics isn't going to solve your problems.

in other creative industries deadlines and/or release dates are not dictated by artistic whim.

Maybe the world would be better were it true.

Bill, I have to ask, why are you posting in this thread?

To talk about lateness in the comics industry?
 
 
Janean Patience
10:41 / 04.01.07
Boboss: [Lateness] pisses me off because it affects, in a concrete way, my enjoyment of serialized comics - I'm not going to go over the reasons why yet again, I've done more than enough of that elsewhere, and besides we all know the arguments.

Bill, without wishing to have a go, or overstate the annoyance caused by our pet industry's publishing practices, your stance pisses me off because you seem to be ignoring the fact that other people are having their enjoyment undermined. Even if it didn't bother me I think I might be concerned about that.


I'm not sure I would be much concerned with the annoyance of others. Consider: I watch the Sopranos on TV and enjoy it. A friend also enjoys the Sopranos, but can't watch it on TV "because I can't stand the constant fuckin' adverts." She watches it on DVD instead. Should I feel concerned for her? Or is it perfectly okay that I couldn't care less? And because she can't bear the adverts is it okay for her to shoplift the DVDs?

If the lateness of serial comics takes away the pleasure you get from them, the obvious solution is not to buy them in serial form. Wait for the trade paperback. That can still be annoying when a series is crawling out, but it's nowhere near as annoying as turning up at the shop and leaving empty-handed in my own experience.

I presume you don't want to do that because you enjoy comics more in serial form. Most mainstream comics are still written to be read in discrete chapters and have cliffhangers, so that makes sense. The problems of lateness, however, are nothing new. They've been with the industry ever since it started, and they're endemic to any industry that deals in serialised publication. They used to be dealt with by fill-in issues. Because the industry's changed to focus on the creative people involved - we're not reading Batman but Morrison and Kubert's Batman - then fill-in issues aren't as acceptable as they once were. The consensus appears to be on the other side: I'd rather wait for Millar & Hitch's Ultimates than have a fill-in artist or a fill-in issue.

Publishing practices could be changed, of course. When you've got an artist like Quitely or Sook who are seemingly unable to meet monthly deadlines, either switch them to non-serialised work or give them a massive head start. It makes sense. Except I have to assume it doesn't on a publishing level because it doesn't happen. The finances must work better, for company or artist or both, to do the monthly thing even if they know they're making promises they can't keep.

What about indie comics? Joe Matt fans like myself wait two years between issues of Peepshow. It took six years for Charles Burns's Black Hole to come out because, like Bryan Hitch, he needs to earn the big bucks doing commercial work in order to publish his comic. What's the difference between them? There are never posts on message boards saying "If Dan Clowes would rather play with his Wii than draw Eightball, then fuck him and his witty post-modernist deconstructions of traditional pictorial narratives. And fuck Chris Ware, too."
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:50 / 04.01.07
Well, I don't know about that - Adrian Tomine could do with getting his two-parters out in a row. Black Hole was put together in a way that meant that you didn't have a direct cliffhanger-resolution structure, which I think helped, but I did end up giving up on the single issues, because I don't really archive - if I don't remember what's going on, I lose the thread of the story.

However, I think you possibly answered your own question, to an extent. People are more sympathetic to small producers of comic books, because they are acclimated to lumpier schedules but also because they are aware that there may be all sorts of administrative or financial issues that are slowing them down - this sympathy tends not to extend to the bigger publishers, and is probably diminished further by the presence of big-name creators - which may well be unfair, of course - after all, artists might be forgiven a degree of artistic temperament. Except in the case of Geoff Johns.

Are we coming up against the boundaries of entertainment and art?
 
 
Janean Patience
14:07 / 04.01.07
People are more sympathetic to small producers of comic books, because they are acclimated to lumpier schedules but also because they are aware that there may be all sorts of administrative or financial issues that are slowing them down.

Some irony there, because of all the high-profile artists who've been accused of it, Joe Matt is the only one who's definitely not drawing his comic because he's sitting at home wanking and wanking and wanking...
 
 
Haus of Mystery
14:19 / 04.01.07
I don't have a problem with people like Joe Matt, Charles Burns and Gary Millidge as they tend to be heavily involved with all aspects of the creation and publication of their work. I do however have a big problem with Big Name Writers from other 'proper' mediums dangling their toes in the comic industry because, y'know, they always wanted to write their special Daredevil story or whatever, who then refuse to treat the industry and especially their readers with the slightest ounce respect. Stand up Damon Lindorff! Stand up Kevin Smith! Stand up Allen Heinberg! Now fuck off.
If you can't manage to write a three or four issue mainstream mini-series in a year you have no place working in the industry.
 
 
Signifier
07:27 / 06.01.07
I'd also like to point out on the "Watchmen was late and that was worth it, wasn't it?" front: the final issue of Watchmen was ONE MONTH late--and I believe that was the only late issue.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:32 / 06.01.07
I think my point's already been made above, but surely if you've got someone like Quitely or John Bolton or someone who takes ages to produce gorgeous work, it's better to give them the time to do it than to pretend they're gonna do it quicker?

Much as people on B*rn*R*b*t*cs love slagging off the artists and writers for how long this stuff takes them, a lot of it's got to come down on the publishers making promises they know they're not gonna be able to keep?

Yes, quality is often worth waiting for- but c'mon, when you hire someone you hire them on the basis of what you know they can do, not what you can lie to your customers about their ability to do.
 
 
CameronStewart
13:01 / 06.01.07
It's also up to the artists themselves to know what they are capable of, and to not agree to deliver work on a schedule they know is beyond their capabilities.

I know that I am unable to produce an ongoing monthly comic series. Catwoman was my first experience working on that kind of schedule and I couldn't keep up, and eventually had to rely on other artists to do layouts for me, before deciding that I had to quit. Since then I have refused any offers of ongoing monthlies, agreeing to work only on limited series, one-shots, or short storyarcs. That's what I know I can handle, and I am proud to say I've never had a book ship late.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
13:09 / 06.01.07
It's also up to the artists themselves to know what they are capable of, and to not agree to deliver work on a schedule they know is beyond their capabilities.

Well, yes. Though I'd say it's part of the employer's job to judge whether it's feasible- it works on both sides. Unless something's your first project, both parties should at least have some idea of what can be expected. An agreement on this would, I would imagine, be part of any contract.

(And incidentally, big respect to Cameron for being one of the consistently on-time elements in 7S).
 
 
Alex's Grandma
13:32 / 06.01.07
I suppose I've got more sympathy in cases where the stuff's late because of the artist - having no real idea what's involved in someone like Frank Quitely or Kevin O'Neill's working practices, I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt, really. What's a bit more galling are situations when it's the writer that seems to be holding things up. I'm not sure if many people were exactly on the edge of their seats over the head of Ultimate Hulk Vs Ultimate Wolverine, or whatever it was called, but what I did read of it didn't especially seem like the result of months of intense, painstaking labour.
 
 
matthew.
22:02 / 06.01.07
Was Promethea late at all? Serious question. JHWilliams and GM were amazingly late on 7S. Moore was teeth-gnbashingly late on League of Ex Gentlemen. Anybody know?
 
  

Page: (1)2

 
  
Add Your Reply