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Morrison's FF 1234 previewed

 
  

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Jamieon
21:08 / 30.07.01
But I still don't understand. Having just read the comic it seems patently obvious to me that Morrison is having a really good time "using his salacious proposal".

Let's take a closer look....

The Kids:

THE THING.

Johnny Storm hit the nail on the head when he described Morrison's Thing as "Some Gigantic, angry baby with a terminal skin disease". He's the original self involved, narcissistic child - incapable of realizing that he's onto a good thing. Daddy Reed looks after him, providing him with lots of nice adventures; he's a superhero and he's got a gorgeous girlfriend..... and all he can do is moan and bitch about how he "useta be a human being.... just wanna be treated normal...", blah, blah, etc. And somehow we know that, as soon as Doom grants him his wish, something very bad has happened.... Ben Grimm doesn't want to be "human", his complaints and protestations to the contrary have simply become part of his routine - his habit - something that defines him. No, it becomes clear before Doom crushes his little model Thing that his reasons for "helping" Ben are less than altruistic.

THE HUMAN TORCH

Johnny Storm plays the role of the fiery, petulant, aggressive teenager - striking James Dean poses, running a comb through his hair and, out of boredom, and in an attempt to get her attention, boiling Sue's puppet-fish. His resentment/jealousy towards Reed is barely checked: he cruelly asks Sue what it's like "being married to the Einstien of the 21st century?", deliberately preying on her insecurities, trying to provoke her into expressing some kind of disatisfaction with their relationship. Later he sarcastically refers to "Mr. Fantastic" spending more time with "Doctor Doom robots than he does with my sister."

The Torch as child of Reed and Sue metaphor is maintained, not simply through vague freudian allusions to his attraction for his sister/mother, but, also, by the classic teenage line: "Sorry I got born."

Well, I bet Mummy feels really guilty now....

Like most teenagers, Johnny has a great deal of difficulty holding his tongue. He's started to develop an adult's abiltity to analyse a given situation/individual, but none of the tact, empathy, or consideration for others that come with full maturity. He makes painfully cutting comments to both Sue and Ben, which, whilst true, are, in this context, both cruel and unnecessary.
And of course he's got a date.... the hotheaded, goodlooking, eternal teenager should never be without a date.

The Torch and the Thing bicker like siblings: the torch childishly bitching about the way "everyone makes out to Reed that I'm the one who needles you..."; and Ben, unable to rely on the words Johhny uses as weapons, resorts to the threat of physical violence:

"I should break your neck!"

The Parents:

THE INVISIBLE WOMAN.

Sue, like her namesake, has long since learnt to dissapear into the background when the boys are having one of their tiffs. Before everything kicks off she expresses concern towards Ben, telling him she's "sorry", and, like any concerned Mother, asking him if something's wrong. But as soon as she sees a fight brewing she shrinks away with an exasperated "Ohh", leaving the boys to it. Afterwards she gives one of her friends a call to ask for advise about handling her difficult child, and to express her unhappiness with regards to Reed's workaholism. Sadly, Sue's codename damns her to an empty marriage: she is, literally, The Invisible Woman. Her concerns, her feelings, her unhappiness are lost on her two self involved brats, and on her husband who spends most of his time away from "home", "awol in the depths of his mighty intellect."
She spends her lonely, wasted hours doting on the mindless puppet-fish cooked up by Alicia, in order to give herself something to do - something to care for.

No wonder her thoughts sometimes stray far from home, to Atlantis.........

MR. FANTASTIC

The archetypal absentee Father. Hard at work, he forgets that his family might need him, or that they might resent him. There's something so emotionless, and inhuman about that sign outside his "superstudy": "DEEP IN THOUGHT. KEEP OUT." Nasty. All cerebrum and no heart..... And this is what Doom plays on: The Father's apparent lack of human feeling - his dedication to work, to rationality, above the day to day concerns of his families wellbeing. He plays on the divisions between Father and child, his "betrayal" of his family, and his apparent inability to properly engage with his children. This is all textbook stuff.

So, Mr. Boom, are you beginning to see what I mean. Morrison's doing exactly what he said he would........

[ 31-07-2001: Message edited by: Jamieon ]
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
21:30 / 30.07.01
Nice post. I'd just like to add that I thought issue one of this was, well, fantastic. None of my usual reservations about Jae Lee's art apply. Much darker and nastier than a lot of Grant's recent stuff, and the ending... can you say It's A Wonderful Life?
 
 
gman
21:52 / 30.07.01
Grant's just emphasising the darker sides of the FF that Kirby/Lee created; the bickering, the tantrums, the agonies of Ben Grimm 'This Man, This Monster', plus a plot line spun by Byrne ('what if Reed Richards created the FF deliberately?') which was itself ripped off of the Niles Caulder plot in DP. And it's pretty groovy stuff... I suspect the Thing is now in some parallel world, although we won't cotton on until issue 4, no doubt. Expect evil Reed next ish...
 
 
gman
21:55 / 30.07.01
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Levon:
[QB]Whats going on here? How did the concept of thrones attached to helmets with strange neuro-wire thingies become such a cliche? And why is it showing up in everything Grant writes?

Well spotted... um, Grant's into drugs and s&m? Professor X/Reed Richards...'bring out the gimp'.. also Sherlock Holmes on opium references...
 
 
Jamieon
10:50 / 31.07.01
quote: I suspect the Thing is now in some parallel world, although we won't cotton on until issue 4, no doubt.

What do you mean? We've already cottoned on. It's bloody obvious - Grant's not exactly subtle about it. Or do you mean that the FF won't cotton on till ish 4?

Eh?

It does look like Doom's gone for the Niles Caulder angle, doesn't it?
 
 
gman
11:26 / 31.07.01
Or do you mean that the FF won't cotton on till ish 4?

Eh?

It does look like Doom's gone for the Niles Caulder angle, doesn't it?[/QB][/QUOTE]

I'm not sure it's so obvious... when Benjy goes up the 'Time Tower', aren't we supposed to think he's just getting his humanity back? Yes, I think there'll be a lot of Caulder/Richards parallels in the alternate world (um... maybe... yer never know with yer Morrison). By the way, have you taken DMT yet?
 
 
Jamieon
12:30 / 31.07.01
Ummm... yes, but there are loads of clues that give the parallel universe/alternate timeline thing away: Ben's confusion when the guard describes Reed as "Professor Richards", and his sudden awareness that he doesn't "belong here"; his insistence that "the whole place is wrong"; his difficulty locating familiar landmarks: "... That's where old man Poliakoff's bakery should be.... what happened to everything?"

Combine this with the fact that most of us seem to have noticed it, and you've got pretty good evidence that Morrison intends us to be fully aware of just how fucked up Ben Grimm's situation actually is.....

As for those that haven't figured it out yet: well, some people need spoonfeeding don't they?

[ 31-07-2001: Message edited by: Jamieon ]
 
 
Jamieon
16:13 / 31.07.01
But not I.

I, Runt!
 
 
Mr Tricks
17:47 / 31.07.01
DMT: twice...

I would think rather than a parralell universe thing... this is a Ben Grimm from the Past. Brought into the pressent By Doom, This would explain the disorientation as some 10+ Years have passed in a blink of an eye.

Doom has already been set of as having Space/Time tech.

Of course this theory falls apart when you ask How the Ban of the past would know to find Reed in the Baxter building...

But then again Ben's future Consciousness could have been fused into a body from the past... having created all sorts of internal & external discrepancies...
 
 
Jamieon
18:25 / 31.07.01
Ummmm... whilst I appreciate that Ben's experiencing ontological shock, I think that's only part of what's going on here. I repeat (altho' I wish I didn't have to - read the thread, damnit!) Ben expresses confusion when the security guard refers to Reed as "Professor Richards". Not only that, but he states quite explicitly: "That's where old man Poliakoffs Bakery should be... The whole place is wrong... I lived here, but nothings here...What happened to everything?" Call me crazy, but I choose to take these ramblings at surface value: As far as I'm concerned, Morrison's gone to great pains to impress upon us that Ben Grimm's "home" - the once familiar Yancy St - has been altered beyond all recognition....


quote: I would think rather than a parralell universe thing... this is a Ben Grimm from the Past. Brought into the pressent By Doom, This would explain the disorientation as some 10+ Years have passed in a blink of an eye.

Maybe, but there's still the Baxter building thing, and the fact that he knows about the palm scan, etc. And then there's the fact that he seems driven to see (and stop) Reed Richards, which suggests some continuity between this Ben and the one who's just received the news courtesy of Doc Doom that "Mr. Fantastic" isn't that fantastic after all. The memory transplant thing? Again, maybe. But it seems a little.... clumsy.

But the future? That seems likely.

But, overall, I don't think we've got enough evidence to base a hypothesis on.

[ 31-07-2001: Message edited by: runt ]
 
 
Mr Tricks
20:32 / 31.07.01
hmmm.... Time to retreat into...
DEEP THOUGHT:Keep Out

 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
20:46 / 31.07.01
Has no-one else noticed that the 'Yancy Street' sign that Ben Grimm trashes at the start of the issue is back intact wherever/whenever he ends up at the end?

I don't know where he ends up, but he's not in Kansas anymore.

Now could someone explain what's under Doom's mask to me? I seem to remember there was a storyline in the main FF comic about him and Reed having the same face...
 
 
Ellis
20:51 / 31.07.01
I thought Doom was supposed to be beautiful, that he wasn't hideously scarred at all.

But your idea sounds much cooler!
 
 
SMS
01:26 / 01.08.01
quote:Originally posted by Levon:
Whats going on here? How did the concept of thrones attached to helmets with strange neuro-wire thingies become such a cliche? And why is it showing up in everything Grant writes?
http://www.comicon.com/gallery/categories/Marvel_Comics/media/FFpage05.jpg
http://www.comicon.com/gallery/categories/Marvel_Comics/media/x-menannualpg1.jpg

http://thelovemachine.homestead.com/files/New1.jpg

[ 04-07-2001: Message edited by: Levon ]


I would guess that Morrison is as excited about human-machine interface technology as I am. And don't ever be surprised if something Morrison writes becomes a cliche. He has a way of implanting an idea in your head that won't go away that I've never seen in a writer before.
 
 
CameronStewart
04:41 / 01.08.01
>>>Now could someone explain what's under Doom's mask to me? I seem to remember there was a storyline in the main FF comic about him and Reed having the same face... <<<

Jack Kirby's original concept for Doom was that his face was perfectly ordinary except for a single tiny scar - Doom's enormous vanity caused him to encase his head in steel so as to never let anyone see his monstrous "deformity"...

...An idea Morrison more or less nicked for Oubliette in Marvel Boy.

I seem to remember John Byrne's incarnation of Doom being horrifically scarred.
 
 
gman
07:01 / 01.08.01
<<<

Jack Kirby's original concept for Doom was that his face was perfectly ordinary except for a single tiny scar - Doom's enormous vanity caused him to encase his head in steel so as to never let anyone see his monstrous "deformity"...

Apparently one of the big reasons Jack fell out with Stan... Stan wouldn't go for the idea ('too arty')... similar to his falling out with Ditko over the identity of the Green Goblin, where Ditko wanted him to turn out to be nobody the readers knew...
 
 
MJ-12
08:34 / 01.08.01
I seem to recall Byrne's storyline as portraying Doom's accident as only leaving the single scar. Putting the mask on before it had cooled was what gave him the serious disfigurement.
 
 
Jamieon
08:54 / 01.08.01
Grant's writing often does away with the filters installed by adulthood, taking us right back to the character as originally experienced. Here we have Doom as Satan/Dracula: the mask he wears is one of benevolence - of compassion - the original, misunderstood outcast who will beguile us with his "plight" if we let him. But in the end, all of this? It's just another weapon he uses to further his terrible urge to destroy. How many of you wanted to believe Doom had finally turned over a new leaf, or that he really was a pawn in Richard's mad game? I know I did. And there's something really horrible about the way the character can wear humanity - dress up in it - in order to further his psychotic ends. It's all very Patrick Bateman....

His real face? Take a look at his "mask".

Oh yeah, a quote from Jae Lee:

quote: Well, if Fantastic Four: 1234 is a success, we'll consider doing Fantastic Four: 12345678910.

Which'd be nice.

[ 01-08-2001: Message edited by: runt ]
 
 
Jamieon
08:54 / 01.08.01
SPOILERALERT-SPOILERALERT-SPOILERALERT-SPOILERALERT

Also, what baddies do you think we'll see in this? We've already got Doc Doom, and we know the Submariner and the Moleman are gonna turn up, but could there be a fourth? Answers on a postcard please.

And what are we to make of Alicia's clay sculptures of them, if anything? Will they impact upon the story in any way?

[ 01-08-2001: Message edited by: runt ]
 
 
ynh
17:50 / 01.08.01
I think we saw all four baddies in that one panel, perhaps somehow related to the thing on Alicia's head.
 
 
Jamieon
18:57 / 01.08.01
We saw Doom, Moleman and Namor, but there didn't appear to be anyone else.

But Alicia was beginning work on another piece..... Perhaps a little less "innocent" than a Puppet Fish.

[ 01-08-2001: Message edited by: runt ]
 
 
rizla mission
15:37 / 02.08.01
Hate to piss in the paddling pool, but I finally got this today and found it more than a little disappointing. It was noticably lacking in all the things that make Grant M. so great.

Maybe it's because I don't know/care much about the characters, but I found all the vague psychological observations pretty tedious, and instead of the usual mind-blowing stuff, all the sci-fi concepts were rather tame, if not actually cliched.

It reads like some second rate Vertigo writer's attempt to 'reinvent superheroes' rather than the good lord Morrison's.
 
 
Jamieon
16:10 / 02.08.01
I think it's supposed to be kind of psychologically intense and claustrophobic - I can feel the hot, cramped psyches seething off the page. The character's motivations are as bare and as exaggerated as a dream. Morrison's gone for the 4 without "distance", wihout "filters" approach.... Personally it reminds me of the way the comic felt when I read it as a child.

Yeah, the psychoanalysis is a bit "vertigo", but I haven't read something like that for so long (and, I might add, something like this pulled off so effortlessly; with a wonderful fusion of writing and art) that I found I could slip into it easily. This is an "atmosphere" comic and I like it.

There's just so many nice touches:

The "backdoor access" to the Doombot

Reed's machines described as "works of art"

Doom as Dracula

The raw physical threat of the thing: just look what he did to her wings....

The black comedy of his whining, and the other character's baffled responses "okay, okay. just settle down..."

"See where this glass is cracked? That's my naked brain.."

The creepy sculptures lurking in the shadows

The labaratorial excesses of Reed and Doom: frankenstein lightning and gothic time towers

Namor as baddie: object of spousal yearning threatening the integrity of the family

Forget all that nicey, nicey stuff, Doom just wants to break Ben in two: "One."

Puppet fish fresh from the freezer: urrgh. But if you must, Sue.......

Swirling fishtanks and cold, hard, technological corridors

DEEP IN THOUGHT KEEP OUT

.... And just the fact that I really have no idea what's going to happen next.

I dunno, how does the phrase "post Vertigo Vertigo" sound to you? Okay, it's "dark" and all that, but it's dark in a "Hey look how sick and twisted the Thing is! isn't his torment a good laugh?" kind of way. This is Morrison doing that black comedy stuff he's been banging on about recently, and, let's face it, he hasn't done anything "black" in ages. Bright, shiny popathons must get a little dull after a while, so indulge him a little. Sure he's he's playing about in the darkness and the shit, but that's exactly what sets FF1234 apart from the standard Vertigo rubbish, the fact that he's "playing about in the shit", as opposed to worshipping it......

Try giving it another go, I think it's a grower.

[ 03-08-2001: Message edited by: runt ]
 
 
THX-1138
13:06 / 11.08.01
It's Reed right? Disguising himself as Doom, and making Ben realize how things might have turned out if there were no 'Thing'.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:30 / 11.08.01
Zuzu's petals!
 
 
THX-1138
13:32 / 11.08.01
Attaboy Clarence!!
 
 
ynh
16:33 / 11.08.01
runt, there were four character's in the panel. you named them.
 
 
bio k9
07:09 / 12.08.01
quote:Originally posted by PATricky:

I would think rather than a parralell universe thing... this is a Ben Grimm from the Past.


I always thought that all time travel in the Marvel Universe was parallel universe hopping. Whenever anyone went back in time they jumped to another universe that was exactly the same as the one that they left- up until that point. This allows Nick Fury to go back in time and kill Hitler without altering anything in the Marvel Universe; it would be the parallel world that would benefit.
 
 
Jamieon
13:09 / 12.08.01
I have thought about Alicia.....

Doctor Doom, Moleman, Submariner and.... The Puppet Master!

Perhaps.
 
 
mario94606
20:38 / 12.02.04
morrison words and jae lee pics fit perfectly. more of this teams work would be greatly anticipated, ike tim sale & jeph lobe, arazello & risso, bendis & oeming, millar & hitch.
 
 
Krug
04:57 / 13.02.04
This one was better than all the efforts of the teams you mentioned.

And Loeb?

That man can only write piles of turds.
 
 
ignatian
17:14 / 13.02.04
Although this topic has gone rather dead, I'd like to add my ha'penny.

I think that this was Grant's last work of high quality- right up until the last chapter. The subtle and slow unwinding of the conflict, which left time to explore character and relationships: the stunning use of Sue's invisibility and Alicia's blindness- climaxing with the arrival of a sensuos Namor who appeared more naked than ever: the tip of the hat to the Beat generation in Johhny's teenage enthusiasm for cars, broads and petulance (which was later echoed in Unstable Molecules) and even the idea that Reed's brain had been made as flexible as his body: all of this convinced and excited me.

But Grant is all about ideas, and if he managed to overcome his limitations on characterisation, he lost the clarity of his story telling. The ending came across as techno-indulgence, a lame plot device to resolve the tension as quickly as possible.

Grant can do character, but he has real problems with plot. The Filth was a mess (haha) and his run on te X-Men has been a series of cliches and "noooooooooooooo!!!!!!" and rehash of old tropes.
 
  

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