The Iliad - Notes and Queries.

06:44 / 18.01.02

Er, why?

deja_vroom

08:34 / 18.01.02

and, most important, about what?

sidenote: just started reading it. Didn't make it to the HOLY SHIT part yet...

12:37 / 18.01.02

Hope it's not too late to join the party...I know my Mom has a copy of the Iliad, I'll pick it up this Sunday and start reading. When in February are you thinking of starting the actual discussion?

12:50 / 18.01.02

I was thinking the 4th or 5th of February. I found it quite a quick read (because very involving) so think that should still be OK. It can be a moveable feast if people want, though.

Ethan Hawke

13:47 / 18.01.02

Nietzsche on Homer

"Homer's Contest" - a fragment from Nietzsche published posthumously. Think of it as psychological criticism of the Iliad and Homeric man. Or not.

11:48 / 21.01.02

Sooo, do I have this right... when the book club commences, we will not be talking about the language of The Iliad but the narrative?

11:52 / 21.01.02

I think we should be able to talk about both, really. Can't see why not. But whoever starts the thread off can sort of direct the initial discussion.

12:15 / 21.01.02

It's just that I spent some time this weekend comparing the Hammond and the Fagles, and I don't think that one would get the same holy shit feeling from the Fagles. It doesn't make one's erection invert exactly, but one does go a bit softer at some of the word choices. And oddly the rhythm seems all gone.

I finally checked out the Butler online, too, and loved it. I see what Haus means by old-fashioned, but it is quite like the Hammond in its music.

All of the above couched in the overstuffed subjective, of course.

It seemed above that a consensus was coming about that the translation was no matter; but I think it would be, if we were talking about something like music. Which we don't have to, which was my question.

12:40 / 21.01.02

Yes, I know what you mean. I am hoping that most people have read the Hammond and so will be able to talk about that stuff - because to me (at any rate) it really doubled the impact (and it was quite a big impact - tears, HOLY SHIT, fury, that sort of thing... you know what I mean)

I suppose the best thing to do would be to assume that everyone has read the Hammond one for general purposes, & if people want to chat about different versions they can do so somewhere else - here, maybe. What do you think?

The Return Of Rothkoid

14:05 / 21.01.02

I say just go with the discussion - seems like the Hammond's been getting a big outing in the respondents to this thread, anyway - and maybe quote it as needed if there's some big differences in the texts. Otherwise, we'll maybe run the risk of losing focus?

I think, too, that the point Persephone makes about the Fagles is very, very true: I felt fucking sleepy while reading that trans. With the Hammond? Not on your life. Early days for me, yet, but my desire to see particular warriors get it in a big way is increasing, increasing...

Haus about we all give each other a big lovely huggle?

15:36 / 21.01.02

I am content to let the discussion have its own head and do not overly want to direct its course. Now that I have made my little fuss, I fear that I shall have nothing critically intelligent to say about "music" and only want to sit by a blazing fire and have passages read aloud to me. And eat chunks of roasted meat off a skewer, yum.

Ariadne

19:04 / 21.01.02

Well, this thread has inspired me to read it. I stood in a bookshop the other day and looked at one version (not sure what it was - a cheapy one any way) and then chickened out.

But I'll give it a try - I'll pick up the Hammond or Lattimore if I can and get reading.

Fist Fun

04:50 / 23.01.02

Well I picked up the Lattimore cos it was a bit cheaper, but the best I could do was 8.50. Didn't see any of the fabled 3.50 Hammonds. A myth?

06:54 / 23.01.02

I found a Hammond for 3.50 in Borders - then found my old copy of the Hammond, with my old annotations (my favourite so far - Book 2 l.360 or thereabouts - "NESTOR IS SHIT"), and loaned it to Plumsbitch.

ephemerat

07:55 / 23.01.02

The standard Penguin Classic paperback Hammond is indeed only £3.50. It can be easily found in the poetry section of Waterstone's. And the language is dynamic. Compared to the Wordsworth Classic version I have in my bag it is terrifyingly more potent. I'm getting a'chills and a'shivers a'reading it.

The Return Of Rothkoid

11:11 / 23.01.02

quote:Originally posted by The Haus of Rain:
(my favourite so far - Book 2 l.360 or thereabouts - "NESTOR IS SHIT"), and loaned it to Plumsbitch.Heh. I should be writing my reactions down, really - as I've remarked to a couple of people when it's come up in discussion, my main feeling so far (only up to Book 7 at the moment) has been "that Paris is a poncy motherfucker, isn't he?" That and "Hektor's the MAN!".

But that's for the upcoming thread, I spose...

[ 23-01-2002: Message edited by: The Return Of Rothkoid ]

Ethan Hawke

11:19 / 23.01.02

Heh, this is fun.

"The son of Tydeus is da Bomb!"

Haus about we all give each other a big lovely huggle?

11:33 / 23.01.02

Tydeides Diddy?

He rocks the house. I had *such* a crush on Diomedes when I ewas a kid...

13:53 / 23.01.02

I've got the Lattimore here, and it's doing the job for me.

I especially enjoyed Achilles' rant in book Nine!

There are some really lovely descriptive passages during the various battles.

Fist Fun

17:40 / 24.01.02

I found a knob gag in my translation.

Honestly.

18:44 / 24.01.02

Wot's a knob gag?

18:58 / 24.01.02

Phallic humour.

23:56 / 24.01.02

Now why didn't I think of that?

<returns to reading Pyrrhus>

The Return Of Rothkoid

11:29 / 29.01.02

Right. FINALLY finished; my reading's been pretty sporadic over the past fortnight - but let me reiterate the first post of this thread:

HOLY SHIT!

Good, good, good stuff.

13:22 / 01.02.02

OK. As it is February we should probably think about removing the starting blocks. I'm keen for this one to go well, so have a slight preference for starting on a weekday (becasue I have no computer access at home). But - if someone wants to kick off: let's get with it...

(thx Todd for reminding me)

13:36 / 01.02.02

I've no internet access at home either – could we start the thread proper on Monday? I'd hate to come in and there's two pages of stuff already posted over the weekend...

13:42 / 01.02.02

My thoughts exactly, but I don't want to come across as dictatorial...