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Mindless Ones

 
  

Page: 1234(5)

 
 
Spaniel
08:25 / 12.03.09
Okay, we have Grant, Trips, Iamus and Papers.

Anyone else? Don't be shy, and definitely don't worry about hurting anyone's feelings.

We want opinions!!!
 
 
iamus
23:56 / 14.03.09
I don't think the toytown thing is so hard to grasp. It's a little ambiguous, but I reckon it would be pretty easy to explain visually. There's a vast library of cultural cues that you can use from Neuromancer to Tron to Mario Brothers that would flag that Toytown is a virtual space.

I would definitely be very conscious of how the panel where we first flick to the real-world is written though. Visually, you could explain Toytown in a oner here with a long panel that segues from Toytown on the left into a pixelly breakdown that leaves us with Batman on the right hand side. You could even go as far as having Batman casting off and stepping/leaping out of his bat-avatar, as it disintigrates and disperses behind him. I think it would be a better idea to have this transition happen in-panel, rather than be suggested in the space between.

Remember that the comic panel is a bit weird in that it actually contains a passage of time within it as it takes the reader a second to make their way from the left to the right. If somebody pulls a gun panel-left, you can have the reaction to it panel-right. The two aren't ever really the same moment. If you want a fantastic, and very handy example, look at FQ's rocket sound-effect from the Batman and Robin preview page. That's got absolutely everything you need to know about it right there. You could meditate on that one for months.

So if it were me, I'd put Toytown on the left, all dayglo and cell-shaded. Sewers on the right, all slimy and green. And in the middle - bridging the two, this big pixelly explosion and dispersal as Batman ejects from the Bat avatar. Maybe with it trailing up and off of his cape, to really tie it together. If you were doing this, make sure Batman is more to the right of panel, to show that he has entered Meatspace from Toytown.


Reading on now, but also, watch for things like...

and the only reason Wayne Tower’s in such good shape is because it was made to withstand a nuclear blast

That's never going to show up on the page and it's not useful information for an artist, if anything it's adding in information that might knock other, more vital parts out of their reading. Use whatever tricks you can... lyrical, poetical, descriptive, metaphorical... to get your ideas across to the artist, because ideally, the art can be any of those things in execution. What the panel descriptions are to the finished comic is an invisible scaffold that are holding up the ideas of the artist.

Just make sure that you are ONLY using those words to get across what is right there on the page. If Wayne Tower is made to withold a nuclear blast and that's important then there has to be some definite visual indicator of this that you should be describing. If there isn't, then you really don't need that there and it's only taking up space on the page and in the mind.
 
 
iamus
00:19 / 15.03.09
In fact, yeah....

We’re back in post-apocalypse Gotham, but we’re now in the apartment of the man we could hear on the radio. Half of the living room, which is strangely intact apart from a few enormous gaping holes here and there, is set up like a pirate broadcasting operation. Inspite of all the new technology invading Gotham - in fact probably because of it - the city’s full of hobbyists like this guy, who, luckily for them, are still able to broadcast even though the rest of the city’s centralised communication network is down. The front door is barricaded with furniture, and his wife and two children (a small boy and a teenage girl) lie huddled in the corner while their dad fiddles with nobs and speaks into some kind of outdated microphone thingy. These guys are trapped and something’s after them..


Only describe what a reader can see or infer, unless it's a case like Toytown where it's an element that has to be played a certain way before it's fully explained. If this is the apartment of the guy we've heard on the radio, how do we know this without the voice of the writer.

Start with what you can see. Pirate radio equipment. What is that? Where is that? If that equipment is there, then what else does that suggest about this scene? What can the reader be expected to infer from previous information about what is going on here. How would we be able to tell from this panel if the city is full of these hobbyists? Is it important that we do? If so, there needs to be something else here that shows it.

The reader comes to each new panel with a a blank slate. Over a period of a couple of seconds, they will get an symbolic interpretation of what that scene is about based on the art and the text. After that, they'll put it in a structural context with the rest of the story and start making imaginative connections between it and the other panels and bits and bobs of information.

I'd start each panel from this blank slate and, most-ways, try to mirror in your writing the way that the reader will read. The fact that we're in the apartment of the guy we've just heard on the radio isn't the first thing we'll realise when we read this panel. It's one of the last. Build up the setting and action first. Add on what can be inferred from that after.

But also break that rule in a second if there's a more useful way of getting the right points across.
 
 
iamus
00:27 / 15.03.09
PANEL 1

The door is kicked open, sending all the furniture flying….

SFX: WHAM!

GIRL: (either on or off panel - I don’t mind) EEEEEEEEEEEEEE!



I'd put her in-panel. Anything you can do to anchor it emotionally is the way to go.
 
 
iamus
00:31 / 15.03.09
He is in fact Mr. Claypole and ‘Jackanapes’ is actually a plural, referring to a Gotham street gang comprised entirely out of Gorillas. Gorillas have been immigrating to America in their droves ever since the greenhouse effect began to make a desert out of the jungles where they made their home. It’s the classic immigrant story, with the bulk of the settlers proving to be nothing but model citizens - offering their technological knowhow up to the powers that be in exchange for a very, very pleasant lifestyle - but with a tiny criminal element making trouble for all the rest. Gorillas experience real difficulty coping with all the prejudice surrounding them, and it’s no surprise when you consider the fearsome, slavering, red-eyed monsters closing in on the family who cower at the side of the frame



And... aye.

None of that is going to come across, and the likelihood is that if it's important later, you're going to take for granted you've already explained it.

I'll shut up about that stuff now though. I reckon you know what to look for.
 
 
iamus
00:36 / 15.03.09
We cut again. This time we’re inside a high-tech incubator with Damian’s foetus growing inside it. From behind the glass we can make out a blurry hospital-style room, with nurses and technicians scurrying about. A dark shadow outside the tank, matched on Mr. Claypole in the previous frame, looms over the child threatening to consume him.


That's perfect. Says everything right there. It's literal and emotive in its description. Says all you need to know about the mood of Foetus Damian without actually telling us what the mood of Foetus Damian is.
 
 
iamus
00:42 / 15.03.09
This is a creepy image. Damian, now approaching his teens, is kneeling on stone steps leading to The Sensei’s throne and supplicating himself before him while The Men of death look on emotionlessly, sizing up their future foe. Agrat Bat Malhat stands by the throne, as imperious and terrible as her husband. The Sensei himself regards Damian cooly. The throne-room is covered in tapestries and statues depicting various religions’ demons and gods of destruction. Again, a confused but brutally beautiful ethnicity informs The Sensei’s sense of interior design. He worships death in all its forms, irrespective of culture.

Talia makes herself scarce at the far side of the panel, chewing on a nail. She’s grown attached to Damian by this time and she’s frightened. Ubu’s ready by her side in case it all kicks off.



There's nothing up with this really, but be wary that there's a lot of information packed in here, from setting to interpersonal relationships. Remember that there's only so much space in a panel, and that sometimes artists can be a bit shite. If it's important to get it right, you might want to get a bit anally-mooretentive with panel composition to make sure it comes out as close to the way you see it on your head as possible.
 
 
iamus
00:44 / 15.03.09
Agrat looks down at her lover.

What's she thinking? What kind of look is she giving him?
 
 
iamus
00:49 / 15.03.09
I love the stuff about Damian meeting his Dad, being introduced to compassion and mercy, refraining from the killing blow.

The scientific enquiry line is great. It nails the character.
 
 
iamus
00:59 / 15.03.09
That was fan-fucking-tastic, I thought. The only bits I'm picking up on are technical, the story itself is brilliantly fun, emotional and really well structured. I'll read the last two later, but I reckon it might just be saying the same things.

Well done that man!
 
 
iamus
01:07 / 15.03.09
But to go back to the sensei scene earlier, when I said...

There's nothing up with this really, but be wary that there's a lot of information packed in here, from setting to interpersonal relationships.

If you're wanting a sweep of the room to show the grand decor, then it's going to take focus away (in a purely spacial sense as well as an emotive one) from the characters. Basically, the more of the room you try and include, the further away from your characters the camera is going to have to get. If you try and force it with some extreme angle, then it's going to warp the mood of the panel instead. You might want to break this over two panels to really give everything the coverage it needs?
 
 
iamus
01:17 / 15.03.09
Actually... I can see how you might make it work in one panel. But bear in mind that you can describe where you are and what is happening, but that doesn't mean the artist's interpretation of that information will have any resemblance to yours.

You start with an image in your mind that is then abstracted into words on the page, the artist then produces another abstraction of those words back into pictures to hopefully get back nearer to the original intention. There can be a lot of interference in there when changing channels if you're not careful.

Think of the first Pirates of the Carribean movie where Johnny Depp played Jack Sparrow exactly as he was written on the page, but absolutely nothing like anybody expected.


I mean, he was fucking ace.

But he could have been Rob Schneider.
 
 
The Natural Way
13:02 / 15.03.09
Aaargh! If you were that hard-nosed about the first ish, the next two are going to come in for a lot of friendly fire, so to speak. Esp 4.

Very good advice on lots of this though - esp the toytown segue. I have to say that if I was going to submit the scripts I'd take a much harder look at them. However, at this point I just hope people enjoy reading them.

Doesn't mean my ears aren't peeled back to any criticism though.

One thing: when I describe the history of the gorillas or why Wayne Tower's still intact, I'm just trying to keep the artist entertained and filling in some background that may in some - perhaps impossible to pinpoint - way might feed into their art. And I DO go on to outline in the dialogue what the gorillas are doing in Gotham and what their deal is generally.

The next issue is far more talky - featuring Watchmen style grids - and I'm actually finding the panel breakdowns harder.

But you get to see MY baddies and only my baddies with issue 5 - 'Toy Guns' - so it's kind of exciting for me.
 
 
The Natural Way
13:04 / 15.03.09
Should do this on-site.

Kill Barbelith, it's the humane way.
 
 
iamus
14:10 / 15.03.09
Hee! Aye.

Sorry, not meant to be hard-nosed. I really loved reading all that stuff I was picking up on. Thought the Gorillas were a fantastic idea. It's just that the majority is spot on for me, so it's much more useful for me as a critic to pick out the things that jump out.

Really did love it though!
 
 
Spaniel
14:54 / 15.03.09
Personally I think you should be taking a bloody hard nosed look at it right now. If it's worth doing it's worth doing properly.

I think it probably is valuable to get some of the extra background detail in there in an effort to entertain and clue in the artist, but perhaps you should be putting a bit more effort into flagging up your intentions.
 
 
Spaniel
14:55 / 15.03.09
Does anyone mind if I cut and paste some of this into the appropriate MO threads?
 
 
iamus
01:29 / 16.03.09
Not at all, go for it.
 
 
Quantum
15:07 / 23.03.09

Should do this on-site.

Kill Barbelith, it's the humane way.


Shurely the Natural way?
 
 
Spaniel
08:55 / 24.03.09
Lulz
 
 
This Sunday
09:17 / 24.03.09
I mean, he was fucking ace.

But he could have been Rob Schneider.


I really, really read this wrong. As in, "You were great! Fantastic! Seriously great! But, y'know, you could have been Rob Schneider."

Then I read the post around those lines and it all fell into a less scary place.
 
 
iamus
14:08 / 24.03.09
Nah, if that was the case I would have said Pauly Shore.
 
 
Spaniel
10:31 / 31.03.09
Interview questions have wunged their way over to Cam. Let no-one speak of Mindless fail again
 
 
Triplets
09:07 / 15.05.09
I wish we could but where the hell are these Seaguy annocommentations, eh? WANT!
 
 
Evil Scientist
11:16 / 24.04.13
Go to this site. It's much better. No spam.
 
 
FinderWolf
12:14 / 29.03.14
I like the Mindless Ones site. I like it more when the content is written articles and not podcasts 'cause then I can read while at work. Plus, the Mindless Ones themselves were recently drawn by none other than Fraser Irving in Bendis' otherwise mediocre Uncanny X-Men comic.
 
  

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