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Ultimates 3 - Speculation and Spoilers

 
  

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The Falcon
17:55 / 18.12.07
Yeah, there was some talk of him being elevated to some role at Marvel too; can't remember what, the blood left my head at that point, something like Johns or Morrison at DC maybe.

Which... oh God, he's just so rubbish isn't he? I wish Ed McGuinness wouldn't draw his comics. It's upsetting.
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
18:17 / 18.12.07
Yeah - Hulk annoys me quite a lot. Not so much because it's a bad writer on one of my favourite characters; I've been reading comics for years, I can deal with that by now, but more because I was enjoying Pak's stuff more than anything anyone's done with the Hulk since David's first run, and now he seems to have been shunted off of the character in favour of Loeb. Still at least Pak's still got the Incredible book to play with so I guess it could be worse.
 
 
Spaniel
19:03 / 18.12.07
I just have no idea who all these people are who rate him. I've never knowingly met any of them.
 
 
Essential Dazzler
19:29 / 18.12.07
I don't necessarily think there are that many of them, Boboss.

It seems like Loeb has insulated himself fairly well from low-selling books. Everything he writes is either attached to an event or a shaggy dog story literally bursting with cameos, and fanficcy status-quo rocking revalations. Usually both. Look at his work on Batman, Wolverine, Fallen Son, Superman/Batman, Ultimates 3 etc. I didn't buy any of them, and it's a fair bet that most of the people who did couldn't give a shit about good comics.
 
 
NedB
19:50 / 18.12.07
I actually did enjoy Hush.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
22:05 / 18.12.07
The decision to give him the Hulk to play with seems particularly worrying, for the Marvel Comics shareholder. You'd have thought, going forward from 'World War Hulk', that Marvel editorial would have been after a safe pair of hands to keep the franchise ticking over until the new movie comes out, but apparently not.

Jeph Loeb does seems to have 'Heroes' to his credit (though I'm not sure why - how much of it did he actually write?) but it's surely only a matter of time before somebody starts to ask a few questions. Questions that Jeph Loeb may not have answers for.
 
 
Essential Dazzler
22:13 / 18.12.07
3 episodes of Heroes did Mr. Loeb scribe.
 
 
The Falcon
22:32 / 18.12.07
What I've seen of it, Heroes, is actively dreadful, in terms of dialogue at least, anyway. I know some of y'all quite like it, but no-one is - I think - making a case for it being really good.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
22:39 / 18.12.07
Out of morbid interest, would you know off-hand which ones?

I'm assuming some of the earlier episodes, but if not, well then, Loeb was clearly riding the coat-tails of more talented artistes.

Which is possibly what he should have been doing with 'The Ulimates'. Jeph Loeb as a fawning yard dog of a Mark Millar clone seems preferable, conceptually, to the man's own, sordid, ideas for the piece.

But perhaps Jeph Loeb just gets really good coke?
 
 
Essential Dazzler
22:44 / 18.12.07
Wikipedia is our friend

1.3
1.16
2.11
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
06:27 / 19.12.07
I actually think Loeb is a lot better suited to fairly dumb, big budget hollywood TV than to comic books. I know some posters round here very effectively dissected why the latest Loeb written episode of heroes didn't really make any sense, but I really don't think for popcorn type TV like Heroes the nonsensical nature of much of Loebs writing is a much of a problem.

It's easier to accept these problems with something one watches once and then pretty much forgets about than it is with something that you actual purchase a physical copy of and potentially reread. I for one quite enjoyed the last episode of Heroes, despite all the problems with it.

Not that I don't appreciate intircately, carefully written TV of course - it's just that with something like Heroes I can still have a fair amount of fun without that level of writing.
 
 
FinderWolf
03:35 / 20.12.07
I think the last decent TV script Loeb wrote was the first appearance of Chris Reeve as "Dr. Swann" in SMALLVILLE (and that was about what, 4 years ago...?). Just for the record, my two cents... Lately it seems like Loeb's comics (ever since HUSH, really) have gotten increasingly dumber and more over-the-top. (there were a few good/decent story arcs in Superman/Batman which fit that 'silly popcorn action movie' feel, and many other arcs in that same book that just desceneded into incomprehensible nonsense)

Although I still say "Superman For All Seasons" is a solid work, and I hear his Challengers of the Unknown miniseries with Tim Sale was good. I feel like his "Long Halloween' era Batman work is a mixed bag.
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
04:27 / 20.12.07
I do recall thinking Challengers of the Unknown was pretty decent at the time; and it was certainly completely unlike Loeb's work these days, being a dark, very post Watchmen piece of work. However I sort of wonder if I'd look on it so generously if I reread it today, seeing as now, unlike then, I've actually read Watchmen, and as such I might see the flaws in something so Watchmen inpired a lot more clearly.
 
 
Axolotl
08:18 / 20.12.07
Superman for all seasons is one of my favourite Superman stories, but I think that might be mainly due to Tim Sale's Rockwellesque artwork.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
17:30 / 20.12.07
I just read this. Did all of these character pop up in other Ultimate titles since the last series ended?

Where did Black Panther come from? When did Wanda get plastic surgery and have wings when she is full sized? Why is everyone wearing their costumes all the time?

When did Thor start talking like a medieval peasant in the Ultimate universe?
 
 
Essential Dazzler
17:48 / 20.12.07
Elijah, all your questions are answered by a big old honk on the TWO YEARS LATER horn.

I don't think it's mentioned in the book, but that's when Jeph Loeb has placed it in the time-line.

I'm not current with all of them, but I'm not sure the rest of the Ultimate books have even reached the Liberator's arc yet.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
19:30 / 20.12.07
Man, that is some craftsmanship right there, "I want to go in a different direction with an established and successful title, I know, I will place it two years later, that way I can do what I want for a year and then worry about it fitting in place with flashbacks!"

Ick.
 
 
Aha! I am Klarion
22:10 / 16.01.08
I seem apart of a minority here, but I really liked. While I found the death of Scarlett Witch a little nasty, I feel a little relief because I intuit it as a big fake out (i.e. Scarlet Witch still lives).

I loved the art. I wished Joe Mad drew more comics.

I also fail to respond negatively to Jeph Loeb's better-than-average writing. Some of it feels a little crinkly, but on the whole I found the issue enjoyable and I am eagerly awaiting the next issue.

I also read Batman #672 today. I found it sublime.
 
 
Evil Scientist
08:52 / 17.01.08
I seem apart of a minority here, but I really liked.

I thought it was rather enjoyable. Not the best thing I've ever read but certainly not the worst either. It's a little early to write it off yet (although to be fair I don't think anyone really has yet).

When did Thor start talking like a medieval peasant in the Ultimate universe?

In Ultimate Secret by Warren Ellis as I recall.

I felt the characterisation of the various Ultimates was fine. I especially liked Hawk(cough)Bullseye although the whole "My family is dead and so now I use GUNS!" thing is a huge stonking cliche. It's the opening comic and perhaps Loeb tried to cram too many of the Ultimates in to show they were still with the team.

But Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch seem to be getting a bit more front-stage time (assuming Loeb's not put Witch in a refridgerator) which can only be a good thing.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
09:33 / 17.01.08
It's a little early to write it off yet (although to be fair I don't think anyone really has yet).

I don't know. If Mark Millar's 'Ultimates' was a well-loved local burger joint, which, while not exactly serving up haute cuisine, could be relied on every now and again for a tasty meal, I feel as if the new chef (and not out of malice either; I'm prepared to believe the poor man can't help himself) has decided to cut corners by replacing the meat in the quarter-pounders with locally-sourced, animal waste products.

So, you know, I won't be going back there again.
 
 
Essential Dazzler
12:43 / 18.01.08
In Ultimate Secret by Warren Ellis as I recall.

Nope, that whole mess took place between the Ultimates Volumes.

Thor started talking like a wazzock in the Ultimate power series, which I think takes place after Ultimates 2, but by christ is that comic a mess.

Ultimate continuity has never been all that hot, but it's really taken a turn for the worst over the last year. Who knows what the hell is going on anymore?
 
 
osymandus
13:11 / 22.01.08
Ultimate continuity has never been all that hot, but it's really taken a turn for the worst over the last year. Who knows what the hell is going on anymore?

Its ok their just bringing it in line with the 616 universe.
 
 
Evil Scientist
13:28 / 22.01.08
I have a feeling that this Ultimatum "event" that's upcoming in May might be used as a unifying mini-crisis for the Ultimate titles and bring them back into some kind of coherance. (Although some of you may feel a terrible sinking sensation as Loeb's penning that too).

At the moment it's not really worth reading the various Ult. titles as though they are even set in the same universe. It's more like a whole brane-shoal of universes that are a bit similar to each other. Obviously DC does this a little better with the All-Star titles as they actually aren't even intended to be in each other's continuity.

That said I'm only reading Ultimates and Ult.FF at the moment, and Ult.FF seems to be happy building it's own little continuity.
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
15:20 / 22.01.08
Thor started talking like a wazzock in the Ultimate power series, which I think takes place after Ultimates 2, but by christ is that comic a mess.

Yeah, I read Ultimate Power - I actually quite liked the Bendis issues, and the JMS issues were readable, but that last Loab issue was an amazing piece of work really - the dude mamanged to really badly screw up two whole universes with one story (or was it three universes?). Two with one blow - that's an achievement!
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
16:54 / 23.01.08
there's a very brief attempt to explain Thor's, uh, dialect in issue #2. I think it basically means "I wanted to write Thor this way, so put up with it."

it's kind of like the first. great art. bad dialogue. ham-fisted attempts at characterization. Hawkeye's explanation for his recent bad mood is extra clumsy. fights look pretty but feel kind of unsatisfying or unresolved. people are extra-dicks to each other for no good reason. a decent amount of suspense about what the heck's going on, with some clues/hints.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
23:56 / 23.01.08
I liked Loeb better when he was writing The Witching Hour with Bachalo. I just realized that; back then, Loeb didn't make me want to cry blood.
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
15:45 / 26.02.08
God, this is the most mercilessly crappy sequel to an amazing comic I've ever read.

Why has V.3 simply turned the Ultimates into the usual Avengers? The art alone is a travesty. In volumes 1 and 2, all the characters (except the Hulk, of course) looked like genuine humans. Cap and Thor were the only ones with perfect bodies. Now all the characters have much more in common with the Hulk than with their old selves.

What the hell is up with Iron Man's new armour? It looks like something out of the 616 universe. Why even bother creating the Ultimates if it's just going to be another version of 616?

Same with Thor's dialect. Way to strip the series of everything unique.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
16:39 / 26.02.08
If I knew I could get away with it, I think I'd smack Loeb, hard, in the nuts.

Let him re-imagine that, as part of his 'postmodern' take on the 'Ultimates' universe.
 
 
Glenn Close But No Cigar
20:20 / 26.02.08
Jeph Loeb only has one ball.

Millar has two but very small.

Straczynski's

are pretty dinky

and Greg Pack's sack contains no balls at all.
 
 
matthew.
22:42 / 26.02.08
Same with Thor's dialect. Way to strip the series of everything unique.

Agreed. What's the story on issue 3 being the Wolverine Show? And what's the story with the still-terrible colouring? I don't get it.

Has there been any logical explanation for the change in Thor's speech patterns? Was he shot in the head, Regarding Henry-style?
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
12:10 / 27.02.08
Like I said, they went over it in issue 2. I guess that's not really as much of a spoiler at this point so I'll write it out more.

As I recall, Valkyrie says something like "hey Thor, why are you talking like you no longer remember modern English?" and Thor says something like "I always wanted to because this is how I talk, but I was trying to fit in with everyone before, and now I don't need to because I've proven myself."

obviously it's madness given how little Thor was trying to fit in with the rest of the team or with modern American society, but whatever. as has been said, it's clear that Loeb doesn't want to write Ultimates, he wants to write the Avengers and by God, that's what he's going to do, whether anyone else likes it or not.
 
 
This Sunday
19:06 / 03.04.08
"Read it!" they told me, "It'll be funny! Make you laugh!"

I read it. It did not make me laugh.

Wow. It's like every panel of that comic from Image's own Hawkeye to theethouforsoothy Thor to Valkyrie being constant damsel in distress and the Black Panther getting knocked about by Venom... even if I wasn't a big ol' Widow/Panther fanboy, even iff I'd never read anything of The Ultimates or Avengers, this was like it was every panel of each issue was designed to make me hate it. And not even in a I can give this leeway while they shoot Ted Kord in the head, because I'm having a giant geek reaction right now not, perhaps, a rational one way.

And is Janet dying her hair or were there not enough redheads on the team?
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
21:29 / 03.04.08
That or one too many Asians.

Oh, and I've figured out who Ultimate Black Panther is, in case anybody is going to keep reading until the big reveal on that one:

[+] [-] Possible Spoiler
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
23:11 / 03.04.08
Spoiler don't work! Spoiler! Spoiler! Come back to us...spoiler?
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
16:33 / 04.04.08
Is he Wolverine?
 
  

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