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Zeitgeist

 
  

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Quantum
14:32 / 29.10.07
Here's a link to the site, I can't decide whether to watch it or not. It smells like the Secret, the DaVinci code, loose change, those sort of movies. Several people have mentioned it, what's the story Barbelith?
Should I watch it?

From a review-
"For conspiracy buffs, this is all pretty standard fare, and, indeed, aficionados of the genre will find little new in “Zeitgeist.” The notions that most religions were originally a kind of solar worship, and that the Jesus Christ story recapitulated the mythos of numerous other “dying gods,” were floating around in the late 1700s. Fittingly, the video features a quote from Thomas Paine reducing Christianity to warmed-over sun worship, which was a daring bit of religion-baiting 200 years ago, albeit not so earth-shattering today.

The nefarious International Bankers meme has been propagating itself since at least the mid-1800s and has long been a mainstay of radical right-wing circles where it has often overlapped with mutterings about Jewish cabals.

The 9/11 truth segment of the video is, of course, of much more recent vintage, but, here too, it mostly repeats accusations that have gotten widespread play in the uber-skeptic milieu."
 
 
Ticker
15:35 / 29.10.07
I watched it a while back and was entertained. The spouse tells me if you have read the The Illuminatous Trilogy it's pretty much the same info.

The stuff about Christianity following older myth cycles is pretty well known (doesn't automatically mean these things don't occur in a repeatable pattern)
 
 
Papess
17:23 / 29.10.07
Yeah, nice package though. It is information I have heard and read before, but this is a comprehensive presentation. And not to get too arrogant about the information...the Amero? That is a new one on me. Whose face will be on that? Bush's?
 
 
Papess
17:38 / 29.10.07
Watch it. Better than the news.
 
 
el d.
18:22 / 29.10.07
ahmm.... nope, don´t watch it. Some of it is just plain false, the rest is boring ( the first five minutes are kind of cool, though) and the insights provided add up to the good old "the jewish bankers did it!"... so no, not really any good.
 
 
Papess
20:38 / 29.10.07
I didn't catch anything specifically about "Jewish bankers".
 
 
Papess
20:51 / 29.10.07
OH, I see now, you didn't actually watch it, Vader. That is why the asumption.
 
 
el d.
08:43 / 30.10.07
it´s implied, really.
 
 
Quantum
08:52 / 30.10.07
Hmm. I think I will watch it (it's free after all) if only to debunk it to the zealots who tell me it will blow my mind. Mithras, banking and 9/11 conspiracies are hardly news but it does seem to affect people.
 
 
Mon Oncle Ignatius
09:57 / 30.10.07
I watched an hour or so of it last night; it's all fairly well-trodden conspiracy stuff, made in a very slap-bang post-music video kind of way, and reasonably entertaining (and also perhaps a bit less convincing) for being so.

I do keep expecting to hear Al Jourgensen of Ministry on the soundtrack too, as it does that thing of repeating key phrases of samples to emphasise a point.
 
 
Papess
15:14 / 30.10.07
it´s implied, really.

How? Maybe that has something to do with your own perception?

...made in a very slap-bang post-music video kind of way, and reasonably entertaining (and also perhaps a bit less convincing) for being so.

Yes, that doesn't help.

There are some other issues I have with it. ONe being that Krishna's mother was most definitely NOT a virgin, as she had six children before him, I do believe. Also, there is no claim of Maya, Siddhartha's mother, being a virgin either. So, those two points, I take issue with. Slap-happy research, as if they thought, "Hey, we'll throw this in too so that our brilliant exposé has greater credibility." Which, ironically, does the opposite. That is the biggest issue that I have with it though: that the creators were obviously atheists and felt the need to try to punch holes through all beliefs systems with imaginary bullets.
 
 
Quantum
16:26 / 30.10.07
Is it another example of people trying to cram the wriggly squid of truth into the shoebox of theory? Like when people say Jesus had a beard and Alan Moore has a beard and they're both men (!) so Alan's mum was a virgin, like Maya and Krsna's mum! So the bankers killed Alan Moore because they wanted to cover up 9/11!
 
 
Papess
16:37 / 30.10.07
Unfortunately, that is a bit how it comes across. The problem is that there is no need to cram the "wriggly squid of truth" into any shoe box. It is just for the sake of packaging one outlandish pair of shoes.

The box is recyclable, apparently.
 
 
el d.
18:52 / 06.11.07
So, Quantum, what do you think?
 
 
Saint Keggers
21:55 / 06.11.07
and somebody's trying to frame Goosemaster!
 
 
mixmage
10:42 / 09.11.07
Quantum, are you saying The Watchmen was a thinly-veiled prophecy of 911?

It's all so clear to me now.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
10:44 / 09.11.07
What bothers me about this is that rather than saying 'Look, all these mythologies and religions share an awful lot of ideas, so there's probably a way round the multi-ontology pile up that is the world, that doesn't involve guns and bombs, and might even involve sitting down and appreciating shared things' - rather than saying this it says 'Look! Look! Some links exist, so there must be evil conspiracy!'
 
 
Quantum
10:47 / 09.11.07
No, V for Vendetta was the 9/11 prophecy, Watchmen is a thinly veiled allegory for the co-option of Mithras by the early Christians. Obvs. Remember how Rorschach sacrifices himself willingly to... oh god, I just can't.

I still haven't seen this movie, but *another* person was saying how mind blowing it was, so I think I will reluctantly check it out this weekend.
 
 
jentacular dreams
11:28 / 09.11.07
Alan's mum was a virgin, like [...] Krsna's mum

This is one of my pet peeves. Devaki was not a virgin at the time of Krishna's (if I can use the vowelled form) conception. The legend of his birth involves a prophesy that Kamsa (evil crown prince and uncle to Krishna) would be killed by Devaki (Kamsa's sister, Krishna's mum)'s eigth child (Krishna). So he locks up Devaki and her husband (along with King Urgrasena, Kamsa's dad and Krishna's grandfather) and kills the six children prior to Krishna's birth (there was one miscarriage) as soon as they are born, but fails to kill Krishna.

Actually a google search indicates that the zeitgeist website acknowledges this, saying Now- understanding that virgin/miracle conception can be found throughout religious history as a staple of the birth of the God-man, the idea that Devaki is not a virgin based on the fact she had other children does not alter this notion because, in fact, Jesus's mother, the "virgin" Mary, also is denoted as having prior children.... %Really? Someone should mention this to the pope?%

I'm not understanding how they seem to draw parallels between Jesus and Krishna's births by saying both their mothers were virgins (even though scriptures say that one was, one wasn't), then they say actually no, neither was a virgin per se (again, even though scriptures say that one was, one wasn't), but we are going redefine virginity so that we can say that they both were. Gah.

Sorry, rant over. Shut up mice....
 
 
Papess
11:56 / 09.11.07
Yes, Mice, I pointed that out upthread, too.

We get the astronomical associations, so why does it have to be shoehorned into every belief system to be true or be evidential? Or as Regiment mentioned, why does it all have to be interpreted as an evil conspiracy? Even if there is a "conspiracy", I bet the details would be harder to package in 90 minutes than what Zeitgeist presented. I do like some of the presentation, but it completely confounds me as to why they felt the need to exploit the lies of our age using yet, more lies.

Hmm...
 
 
mixmage
12:18 / 09.11.07
I've just watched it start to finish and, while it does play like a synopsis of the Conspiracy Central torrent tracker, there's (surprisingly) no mention of Jewish or Freemason puppeteers.

That said, the Amero is news to me too.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
16:07 / 09.11.07
the Amero is news to me too

PLEASE tell me this is the predicted name for a new currency... I've been saying for years that "euro" is an unimaginative name, and would be the equivalent of rebranding dollars as "the Ameri"... did I (nearly) predict stuff? Spooooooky!
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
17:10 / 09.11.07
PLEASE tell me this is the predicted name for a new currency...

Why, certainly. "Amero is the predicted name for a new currency."
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
17:55 / 09.11.07
Fantastic!

Now where's my percentage?
 
 
Dead Megatron
18:05 / 09.11.07
"North Amero", if you please.
 
 
Mon Oncle Ignatius
18:58 / 09.11.07
Not that much more unimaginative than a thaler (from whence derives the dollar) being an abbreviation of "Joachimsthaler", a coin type from the city of Joachimsthal in Bohemia, where some of the first such coins were minted in 1518."
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
19:56 / 11.11.07
There was some talk of calling the Euro a thaler, which I think would have been much nicer. It's solidly European and sounds more money-y.
 
 
el d.
07:28 / 12.11.07
ah, right. conversation. this is soothing.

although not explicitely mentioned, it rings all the right bells for the conspiracy believer, not to say nut or fascist.
 
 
Papess
02:27 / 18.11.07
So, Snopes.com is claiming this is bunk, but Hal Turner stands by his word! the Ameros are here!






this post is not legal tender
 
 
nyarlathotep's shoe horn
15:11 / 11.01.08
as with most conspiracy-type stuff, the questions in the film are far more interesting than the speculative conclusions.

Only an USAmerican could come up with "Amero..."
 
 
mashedcat
18:17 / 09.05.08
thank you MORDANT ,things are difficlt to find on `B`.I`LL BE MORE CAREFUL IN FUTURE.i hear and appreciate what has been written about zeitgeist, maybe some fine detail is possibly inaccurate, but the spirit of the idea is not to be thrown away .. great evil exists in this world, and it is not perpetrated by monsters but by men, i think some comments made, represents the writer `sticking their head in the sand`. dont be afraid to embrace the truth, the banks and the arms industry are deeply corrupt and hold human life as theirs to manipulate. wake up,, its already too late.
 
 
Feverfew
18:50 / 09.05.08
Thank you for that, caller. Next up, it's Lori, talking about the End Times.

Now, just so the, the rest of us know how much time is left, when is the rapture supposed to hit exactly? Is it midnight New Year's Eve?

Lori: That's right.

Aha. Is that midnight L.A. time or, or Eastern Standard Time, or what? I mean, what timezone is God in anyway?
 
 
johnny enigma
11:28 / 15.05.08
And are you carrying the wriggly squid of truth in that shoebox?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:59 / 15.05.08
Oh come on, chaps. Don't tell me you're going to let a little bit of foaming misojudaic race hate get in the way of a nice juicy conspiracy theory? Conspiracies are Barbelithy! (And anyway, antisemitism--isn't it kind of cool, really? Little bit edgy, little bit nawwtee, little bit politically incorrect, am I right?)
 
 
Eek! A Freek!
13:23 / 15.05.08
Bite,Bite,Bite... Goood fishies...
 
  

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