Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Comic Books >

Rob Liefeld mocks Alan Moore

Page: (1)2

17:56 / 19.10.07

“He once called us up to tell us that he had just been in the dream realm and talking to Socrates and Shakespeare, and to Moses, dead serious, and that they talked for what seemed to be months, but when he woke up, only an evening had passed, and he came up with these great ideas. And I’m tellin’ ya, I think it’s shtick, dude. I think it’s all shtick. I’m gonna start saying that stuff. Cuz you know what? It makes you instantly interesting. Like 'O yeah, last night I was hanging out with Socrates. Came to me in a dream. We played poker . We dropped acid.' That’s the kinda stuff Alan would say all the time, and he’d say 'Oh, I’ve been practicing dark magic.'”

More here. Funny stuff.

Haus of Mystery

18:37 / 19.10.07

And he comes out and he lets everybody know now 'I’m going to crap all over the adaptations you do,' he’s shown no loyalty to his fellow artists like Dave Gibbons or David Lloyd

Except he gave all his royalties for 'V' to Dave Lloyd. Which is kind of loyal, Rob.

18:50 / 19.10.07

It's a series of non-revelations, not even terribly worth talking about, I think. Liefeld is a visionless, insightless mercenary, who therefore thinks everyone else is too. The End.

Supreme is good, mind, but at its worst with Rob L art. If it didn't exist, no-one would even juxtapose the two.

Haus of Mystery

19:24 / 19.10.07

If you imagine Liefield with a jock-asshole voice, it sounds about right.

20:52 / 19.10.07

I don't know that he's even... by all accounts he's a really nice guy (as would I be had I converted every portion of my frankly miniscule talent into $$$,) but clearly pretty fuckin dumb and kind of a useless businessman, somewhat deceitful. Not a jock, really, just a - what's the word?

Oh yeah. A dick.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

07:26 / 20.10.07

Come on, when was the last time Liefeld mattered about anything? He can't put comics out and his artwork is always embaressing (Captain America With Moobs!) He's also woefully misinformed about actual events, such as what happens with the movie adaptations money.

12:35 / 20.10.07

But he is the sort of joke figure that comics fandom loves to spend too long writing about.

17:35 / 21.10.07

On the other hand, I can imagine that Alan Moore isn't always the easiest person to work with, and realistically if one of the reasons that people fund your work is so that they can make movies out of it, it's a bit weird to be so demonstrably angry about every adaptation. And also, bluntly, I suspect I believe the story about the evening with Moses, and I have to be honest, I think my eyes would roll around a bit too. I mean, I love Grant's stuff to death and am fascinated by the ideas that he comes up with and I think his exploration of magic and stuff is fascinating and everything, but do I believe he was abducted by aliens in Katmandu....?

18:06 / 21.10.07

I too would agree that there's at least a bit of validity to Rob's claim that Moore is partially to blame for alienating virtually every comic book publisher in the industry. It was particularly striking to hear Moore's burn all his bridges reasoning after the end of Promethea, which is all about stressing oneness. I can certainly understand how he feels, for most people, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen and From Hell are shitty movies, not great comics, and he's known mainly as the guy behind those movies. It baffles me that someone like David Milch can get consistently cancelled by HBO and then go back and make another show for them.

But at the same time, this was the standard in comics at the time, and he might be able to gain better control of his properties by working within the system, not completely abandoning it. Ultimately, I just want to see him make the comics he want to make, and have the chance to get them out there. It's frustrating that his indie work ran into so many issues, but if collaborating with the man gets us books like Promethea and Top Ten on a regular basis, I'd rather have him work with them than have another aborted project like Big Numbers.

Speaking of Moore, anyone know what he's working on now? The new League book comes out soon, but I haven't heard of anything beyond that.

07:03 / 22.10.07

Uncle Alan is working REAL HARD on his next novel, Jerusalem, it has a similar premise to Voice Of The Fire except it is based on a much smaller geographical area (about the block around his house, if i recall....) and is looking to be about ten times as long as Voice...

Also the third League series will be out late next year from TopShelf Books,

And then there is the secret horror comic project for Avatar that is apparently driving the artist completely insane, as in psycho, not frustrated.

04:44 / 24.10.07

Marvel, DC and Awesome are not quite every publisher in the industry. And I don't actually recall him alienating Marvel: they added his name to the indicia of the latest CAPTAIN BRITAIN tpb.

I think Moore's "difficulty" seems exaggerated. He may be prickly at times RE publishers but he seem to be trying to act on his priciples at very least. Scott Dunbier seemed to have nice things to say about working with him, and that covers the last eight odd years, no?

04:51 / 24.10.07

"And also, bluntly, I suspect I believe the story about the evening with Moses, and I have to be honest, I think my eyes would roll around a bit too. I mean, I love Grant's stuff to death and am fascinated by the ideas that he comes up with and I think his exploration of magic and stuff is fascinating and everything, but do I believe he was abducted by aliens in Katmandu....?"

Moore and Morrison do a good job of articulating their subjective experiences with, er, "non-normal" consciousness events, experiences and dreams, plus they have a sound conceptual fundament upon which to set such tales. Personally, I've alwats found their treatment of the subject fascinating and an interesting look into the mechanics of their imaginations. My take on their magick ideas: they're playing mental games with their own imagination/creativity. Others may see blather, I see a quixotic window into the minds of two great artists.

The Natural Way

07:09 / 24.10.07

I'm fairly certain Tom does too.

16:11 / 24.10.07

Liefeld's statements say more about him than they do about Moore. Basically, Rob can't rationalize Alan's actions as something honestly done, so he transmutes them into what he sees as an act. And what has Alan done that seems so incomprehensible? Basically, walk away from large amounts of money, preferring that what money he earned was obtained in a method he found proper.

I find Alan's hard-line stance with many publishers, and filmmaking in general, to be admirable. He's living comfortably with the art he produces and enjoys; why should he need to work with DC or Marvel if he doesn't want to? In an age of back-pedaling and soft-shoeing by people who disagree, it's fascinating to watch someone publicly decide something, and follow through to the hilt. Quixotic might be the best way to describe it, if anything because so few are doing it.

As for Rob taking issue with Alan's occultism, that seems more like evidence Rob raises to show that Alan's faking his moral high ground. It's more of a side-line attack than the tentpole that his argument revolves around. That said, his argument is incoherent and ironic considering the source, but there you go.

ONLY NICE THINGS

16:26 / 24.10.07

You know what you can do with a tentpole?

17:47 / 24.10.07

I'm a little rusty with forum-speak. Is such an image a sarcastic denunciation of my statement, an amusing image, or both?

18:00 / 24.10.07

Both, I'm sure.

I was about to PM Haus asking the origins of the whole "Swingball In-joke" too. I had to ask about CatGlassGate once.

ONLY NICE THINGS

22:19 / 24.10.07

Swingball first used here, to describe uncritical and overenthusiastic defence of comic-book hero.

In this case, the whole thread is just insultingly easy. Rob Liefeld - a hack, a jock and a fool - mocks Alan Moore - a beardy magickian and comics genius - for his magical inclinations and pretensions. Short of Fred West calling Buddha a nob, I'm not sure if there is an easier question for Barbelith to take sides on. So, what's the profit?

23:38 / 24.10.07

I remember that thread, but as I was reading this thread now I thought it was a dirty innuendo.

02:31 / 25.10.07

Re: Marvel, I believe after the Captain Britain name incident, he said he would never work for them again, this being the reinforcement of the previous pledge never to work for them again.

I can see both sides of the argument there, on the one hand, this is the same company that screwed him and countless others over the years, but at the same time, it's a different management and approach. Still, I'd rather see Alan write whatever he wants to than job on some Marvel books. His new arrangement with Top Shelf seems to be pretty solid, so it's not like he needs Marvel or DC to get his books out.

04:59 / 25.10.07

Agreed. I'd rather Moore just do his own thing than work on franchise characters again. I loved VOICE OF THE FIRE and am looking FWD to JERUSALEM. I also think that his performance pieces with Tim Perkins are wonderful. So if he only did novels and cds, I'd be happy with that...

Janean Patience

07:40 / 25.10.07

Moore's fallen out with a few collaborators. Alan Davis, Steve Bissette, Bill Sienkiewicz... so if you're arguing he falls out with people, it might be an idea to mention them, rather than David Lloyd and Dave Gibbons who appear to have no argument with the hirsute one and have actually profited from his odder decisions. Just a thought, Rob.

08:53 / 25.10.07

Short of Fred West calling Buddha a nob, I'm not sure if there is an easier question for Barbelith to take sides on. So, what's the profit?

But think of poor Alan! Imagine his distress at the unfounded criticisms and slurs hurled at him by the Liefeld, if we don't step up to defend his honour, who will? Shit sticks you know, especially if you are facially hirsute. At least in this little corner of the internet Alan knows he has allies, I thought Barbelith was supposed to be a safe space- that's the profit, Alan's grateful tears of joy knowing that WE'VE GOT HIS BACK!

SHUT IT LIEFELD YOU PONCE! YOU WANT SOME?

Regrettable Juvenilia

12:54 / 25.10.07

Liefeld's no Jim Balent, is he?

Jim. Balent!

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

15:07 / 25.10.07

Thanks, Petey. Now I can't stop looking at Jim Balent. Which probably goes against something I stand for, if my recall of his oeuvre is correct.

15:19 / 25.10.07

He's softcore.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

15:21 / 25.10.07

Yes. Nineties Catwoman and all that. I'm washing myself repeatedly.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

17:04 / 25.10.07

Despite all the meen fings I've said about Morrison, The Invisibles, and people who wish to play swingball with Grant Morrison and The Invisibles on teh astral plane (possibly via some method involving a narrative hypersigil)... I actually reckon he probably did get abducted by aliens in some meaningful sense of the phrase. Not that it couldn't be a sales pitch too, mind.

I also reckon that a practicing magician who has skewed hir practicing magic/getting out of the house and seeing a few mates ratio too far in a particular direction is apt to start Lunajacking perfectly ordinary conversations with stuff about how ze spent last night hanging out with Socrates etc. It's an occupational hazard.

STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK

19:01 / 25.10.07

I'm not sure I understand this thread anymore.

Am I still allowed to say Liefeld's a cock AND mock Moore's beard and general grumpiness in the same post, or have I got this whole thing wrong?

Because, for what it's worth, I'd like to do both.

19:32 / 25.10.07

I originally posted this because I thought it was hysterically funny to see arguably the least-respected person in comics call out arguably the most-respected person in comics on his pompous BS - not so much the mag!c(k)y stuff per se as the way in which he presents himself.

Criticizing Liefeld for being Liefeld just strikes me as sort of stupid. He is what he is, it's all been said before, and I don't think he takes himself or his work too seriously, so why should we? Moore, on the other hand, takes himself entirely too seriously, and I was deeply amused to see Liefeld, of all people, letting some of the hot air out of his tires.

Haus of Mystery

20:07 / 25.10.07

Mmm. I don't really care about Moore bashing, but I actually think Liefield in his own way has done a lot of damage to the industry. He treats his fans and co-creators with a disregard bordering on contempt.

ONLY NICE THINGS

20:49 / 25.10.07

Well, when you're both a successful writer and a successful artist, it can't be easy to be patient with less versatile talents.

Haus of Mystery

21:30 / 25.10.07

STRONG TRUTH.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

21:33 / 25.10.07

*!*

My god, that woman's had giraffe legs grafted onto her.

Haus of Mystery

21:55 / 25.10.07

It is...

tres sexy, oui?

Page: (1)2