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Comics and architectural landscapes

 
  

Page: 12(3)

 
 
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15:24 / 09.10.07
9/11 or any comparable attack on architecture to have taken place in the DCU would mean that the heroes had utterly failed
Didn't the whole of Montevideo get nuked in JLA? Was that before or after 9/11? Seems it's fine for a whole city we don't know to get wiped then quickly forgotten about, but two symbolic buildings? Step away. That actually probably says more about our relationship with iconography than anything about DCU heroes, I suppose.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
15:31 / 09.10.07
Montevideo got Vandal Savaged in DC 1,000,000, and later, er, rebuilt as a floating city run by the Ultramarines. IIRC.

As an interesting architecture side-note, there was a three-series crossover in Batman after the Michael Keaton film was released featuring architecture designed by the film's set designer. It was called "Destroyer," and was heavily touted at the time as a huge comics event.

It was cack, sadly.
 
 
garyancheta
15:44 / 09.10.07
From what I remember, there was this weird panel in Superman where the Lex Towers are being repaired by Superman and he states something that sounds vague 9-11ish, but it wasn't quite correct. The issue was made before 9-11.

There's also the X-Men issue in Genosha, where the city had actually become a huge sentinel that killed off its population in a very heinous and bloody way. The whole "Voices of the Dead" is an interesting exploration of mourning, loss, and defiance that is also vaguely fascist (and, in the end, becomes the part of one of the final stories in Morrison's X-run).

As for Ex Machina being exploitative, I would agree if the entire story just kept coming back to 9-11, but it does shift away from that in later stories and deals specifically with the running of New York City. I thought the whole "destruction of one tower" was very powerful, because the whole issue leads you to believe in one thing and suddenly you have a very huge sign that says "This is not the New York you remember." It also works because this is about a person becoming the mayor of New York, and if there wasn't any mention of 9-11 or anything about 9-11, then it would be an odd story.

Some other post-911 city stories would be from the big 9-11 trades (which depicted all sorts of stories about urban destruction and urban renewal), Marvel Comics's Spiderman issue that actually depicts the destruction of the twin towers, and the graphic novel can't get no (which depicts more about rave culture and Los Angeles in a post-9-11 world).
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
15:51 / 09.10.07
And it makes the DCU seem kind of facile, fairy-tale childish, as a world where a flying man would have streaked out to stop the first plane from impacting. Stories about Superman, GL or Flash averting disasters would seem somehow tasteless in that context.

Well, except when they're trying to be too "relevant" for words, the DCU is more directly about wish fulfilment -- people with super-powers saving the world on a regular basis is all about that. There's nothing wrong with that and it fills a particular position in a cultural consciousness (while wading through a dreckful interview with the creator of Heroes yesterday, he talked about the idea and why he chose to do a show with super-powers in relation to society today). And for the most part there's always some (perhaps very small) element of risk in these stories at the best of times -- I'm thinking of that Flash story including in the recent Greatest Stories collection (the one pencilled by Wieringo), where he has to overcome ego and emotion to save the day, while accepting that he is only part of a larger urban context where there's always danger that he can't get to...

And it's fairly explicit that All-Star Superman is about Clark trying to raise everyone else up to his level, or at least keep us going until we can properly save ourselves.

Which is beginning to stride off-topic. But, speaking of A*S, it's worth putting in about Quitely designs for All-Star Metropolis, which are clearly made of awesome, operating in a far-flung futuristic groove combined with airships. There's one page in particular -- end of #3, when Lois and Clark cuddle under the moonlight -- that I initially thought took place on another planet. A space-city. This Metropolis feels more like it's been impacted by the presence of Superman in distinctly architectural ways, and I have a feeling that bits of knowledge about Kryptonian culture that Clark may have released to the public (I see museum exhibits on tour from the Fortress of Solitude) have influenced the city's culture and how its artists and architects envision it.
 
 
Janean Patience
17:20 / 09.10.07
I kind of think of Gotham as NYC in the 1970s

So Catwoman, the Joker, the Riddler are just the equivalent of Laurie Anderson and Karen Finley? It's not crime, it's transgressive performance art?

Cool.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
17:40 / 09.10.07
Well, to quote the Nicholson, Joker makes "art until someone dies."

It might be worth mentioning Damage Control's effect on the Marvel New York City's relationship with its super-people.

Still on that A*S kick, thinking about the sleek biodomes of P.R.O.J.E.C.T.'s lunar headquarters and the way Quitely integrates the prison architecture into panel layout and the very structure of the page...
 
 
Haus of Mystery
19:42 / 09.10.07
Akira uses it's city location strongly. Otomo often conveys individuals' immense powers by the havoc they reek upon architecture. He also uses the wholescale carnage as an apocalyptic backdrop for the larger story, obviously influenced by the atrocities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Neo-Tokyo is a vast and utterly convincing urban landscape - the attention to detail is staggering.
 
 
Blake Head
21:14 / 09.10.07
I’ve just finished the first in Philip Reeve’s Mortal Engines books (they’re great – big predator cities on tracks) but I can’t think of a comics equivalent; but that idea, mobile architecture, did remind me about the vehicular mo-pads of Mega City One, people living their entire lives in a mobile home.

Beyond that, I was thinking a while ago about representations of futuristic cities, not so much about the architecture itself, but about how they’re presented as these hyper-dense urban sprawls, people living in spaces subject to a constant state of excess and sensory overload, as opposed to imagining the future as somewhere with gleaming spires mixed with wide open spaces that future types mill around in peacefully. I think Transmet and 2020 Visions have already been mentioned, and they both focus on that idea of population density quite closely, how that excess can be both problematic and captivating. But I particularly like Geoff Darrow’s work in something like Hard Boiled, where it’s as if every available space gets covered with as much detail as possible.



At the other end there’s also Moebius’ underground nest from The Goddess, a sort of Logan’s Run style underground city, complete with interior pyramid, dark, predominantly grey with occasional weirdly garish lighting, breaking down, very angular and non-individual lines, quite empty in places, totally enclosed from nature reflecting its inhabitants own fear of infection and difference.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
21:20 / 09.10.07
its seems comic books have quite a strong relationship with ideas about architecture and the city.....

i'd say its a better medium than any other for exploring the built environment.....

architects drawings and presentations are similar to comics - they use pictures and words to tell 3D stories.

awestruck by the thoughts expressed on this thread - 8 years on and barbelith still rocks hard when it wants to.

s'good!

anyone read that 5 page strip (if that) in an old RAW, called 'Here'? concentrates on one corner of a room but shows it ranged through time....amazing.
 
 
miss wonderstarr
21:32 / 09.10.07
Jimmy Corrigan ~ I think that's what it's called ~ had some good sequences about a building's existence fragmented across time and space ~ a big perspective drawing of a homestead with stuff happening in rooms during different decades, and even I think one panel taking place on the empty plot back in time before the house was built.

Also references to the World's Fair, which was interesting in terms of future architecture design. Actually there have been multiple worlds fairs, haven't there ~ my mind is a bit fruck right now but I thought I'd still make this offering.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
00:52 / 10.10.07
Roy Thomas had his Golden Age nostaglia farm, the All-Star Squadron, hang out in the Trylon and Perisphere from the 1939 World's Fair. '39? Maybe it was '33.

Grant Morrison & Jae Lee's Fantastic Four:1234 had Sue Richards piloting the Fantasticar through a very high-rising New York, hovering against the sheer glass of Alicia Masters's apartment building. Some beautiful design work with the transparent windows - very bright, shiny, office-worldish - in behind the blind woman and the invisible woman as they eat (and muse about the undersea architecture of Atlantis). As well, Johnny hot-rods over the bridge and we see the urban environment as affected by the Thing's presence (boom bam, landscape as weapon to be bashed over Frightful Four Attempt Number 4455531's heads) and the Mole Man's monsters. Just as Spider-Man's New York is a jungle for him to Tarzan through, an environment for him to use as a tool, the Four's New York is often a badly damaged hostage when they're in town; no wonder they keep having to go off to alien dimensions.
 
 
John Brown
05:17 / 10.10.07
A couple of examples of work in the which architecture gets a great deal of attention and always struck me as playing an important role in the story:

Almost the entire run of Cerebus, but particularly High Society and Church & State.

THB (PP mentioned previously, but for his NYC, not his Mars).

No time for analysis at the moment, sorry.
 
 
■
11:54 / 10.10.07
Very good point with Cerebus. If you can face it (and I know many can't, with good reason), one of the best architectural draughtsmen out there is Gerhard, who uses a 3D architecture modelling program to map out spaces such as the Rick and Jaka's house, the bar and, later, the "temple" to ensure everything is exactly right in every frame, because the relationship in space of the characters to each other within a given scene is often very important to the pacing and way the comic works at a fundamental and symbolic level (even if you hate the symbolism). Some might say it's over-realist, but Gerhard's astonishing work is the thing that has probably suffered most from Sim's notoriety.
 
 
grant
12:55 / 10.10.07
about how they’re presented as these hyper-dense urban sprawls,

...reminds me of Frank Miller's Ronin, with the digital domes taking over the old city. It's depicted a lot like an infection - big green bubbles overwhelming alleyways and fire escapes. Something reminiscent of Moebius in there, or even the anti-Roger Dean.
 
 
garyancheta
15:21 / 10.10.07
I always liked Grant Morrison's Marvel Boy, which plays around with the city of New York and teen rebellion quite well. There are some interesting parts about how a city operates like an organism that can be fooled, tricked, and convinced that they're seeing one thing, when they're really seeing another thing (like the "blank running" or the "movie actors beating down Marvel Boy and everyone thinking its a movie.")
 
 
thewalker
01:15 / 14.10.07
those belgian guys who set their stories in the fictional city of Urbicande are kinda interesting....

Schuiten and Peeters. They go further than Urbicande, in their Cities Of The Fantastic series the various different cities are actually the main characters in each book.

Paul Gravet covers it better than i could:

http://www.paulgravett.com/articles/012_schuiten/012_schuiten.htm
Paul Gravett

BONUS PLUS:

nowordsnoaction

If the discussion and education of architecture is crippled by representations that depict it soley as space, devoid of narrative, occupation and time, can the built environment be better represented using the techniques, styles and formats found in comics, comix and graphic novels?

start at the beginning (march07) for best relevant stuff
 
 
sleazenation
07:56 / 14.10.07
Did Gerhard always use 3d imaging software? I remember seeing photos an actual physical model of the boat for Fall and the River...
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
10:45 / 14.10.07
MacReady- I was gonna mention Otomo, too- as well as Akira, there's the shorter work Domu, which really wouldn't work anywhere other than in a Tokyo apartment block; specifically THAT one.
 
 
sleazenation
12:32 / 14.10.07
I love Domu!!!!

And specifically the intricately drawn housing blocks, captured in all their brutal and brutalising horror. All hard edges and parallel lines.



The architecture of Domu's setting is the cage that traps the characters and contributes so much to the narrative's tension.
 
 
Blake Head
21:29 / 18.10.07
If you’re still looking, yawn, the first half of Guy Delisle’s Shenzhen: A Travelogue From China focuses quite heavily on the architecture of that city. I thought it gave a great sense of the writer’s impressions of hastily erected buildings, clustered together haphazardly, which seemed to enclose and direct the people who lived there. He uses a very rough, almost child-like style generally which is even more pronounced with the background buildings, which he contrasts with the “clean line” style that is sometimes used in Chinese art; it’s quite an interesting effect, he very specifically trying to show the non exotic side of China’s architecture, drab, practical, claustrophobically angular buildings, but the non-uniform nature of the buildings in any given panel and his purposefully wonky style gives quite a unique effect. And incidentally it’s very good – the author’s closing reflections on his trip, honest and non-sensational, were much more resonant and realistic than an attempt to sum up his experiences of the city as irretrievably “other” (though large parts of the book are of course about him not being able to fully understand or interact successfully with the city). It was published in book form in English last year, there should be a preview here here .
 
 
grant
13:36 / 19.10.07
Wow - that sample looks great! Thanks for that, I'll have to look up that book now.

That's totally what it's like - the hotel rooms, the crowds, the funky crowded streets....
 
  

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