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Will we eventually live in a world where no-one talks to anyone?

 
 
Tumi
22:47 / 01.09.07
I have just spent a year living in Peru where most technology was thankfully absent. The other day, back in England, I took the daily commuter train on the way home from London back to my parents house and noticed that everyone had headphones in, or was buried in their Blackberry, or walking their "dog" on their Nintendo DS and generally not interacting at all.

I got to thinking about technology and its pros and cons. Of course there are positives, I have and love my iPod and I was eternally grateful to have it whilst away without having to cart CDs around. However, I very rarely listen to my iPod on headphones, on the underground or whatever, and use it mainly with speakers as a sort of communal thing. At the same time as the iPod is a great thing, those telltale white headphones trailing out of your ears might as well be a sign saying "don't even try to talk to me". It's a very effective barrier.

Voicemail, sat nav, text messages are of course very useful, as i think this is the main reason why most technology develops, for functionality, to make every day tasks a bit easier, but then the intention becomes distorted and technology becomes about needing to have it, the materialistic urge, not for pure practicality.

I'd like to take this opportunity to excuse the ordering of my thoughts if they seem a bit jumbled, I am just writing these thoughts as they occur to me, but they are all related and debateable I hope.

So I got as far as functionality vs. materialism, the useful vs. what seems to be somewhat alien. Increasingly people rely on, or are given no option other than technology. Booking tickets to a gig, writing e-mails rather than letters, cinema tickets with touch tone phones and no human being is involved at all. Everything is available delivered to your front door without having to leave your home.

My mother told me a story of the days when her bank manager would cycle past her house in the mornings and leave a note on the windscreen of her car along the lines of "you better put some money in your account soon!" These days internet banking rules. The days of personal communication are fading fast.

Impersonal communication is encouraged, and basic knowledge like knowing how to lay out a letter or spell is all done for you with wizards and spell checkers, or letters simply aren't written where an informal e-mail will suffice. I suppose there was a time when everyone knew how to write with a quill and ink, and that, like so many other things is just one of those things that gradually got unlearned as times changed.

Will we end up in a world where you never have to talk face to face with anyone? Online check in for aeroplanes is just another step closer. The possible consequences of a world with no interaction are innumerable; but in its most basic form, people will just stop knowing how to interact, their interpersonal skills non existent. Is this already happening? Would living then become about just surviving? In this materialism comes full circle and we go back to our baser selves through technology.

And another question that needs addressing: why is it that we are all so reliant on technology that ushers us into our own world, and blocks out the rest? I came to the conclusion that it all comes down to escapism. As the world becomes increasingly ugly, the news becomes increasingly depressing and scaremongering more frequent. Technology, the iPod, the PSP, whatever it may be, all encourage blocking out the immediate real world and involving yourself in another world of fiction or fancy. At university a lot more boys played Pro Evo football on the playstation than actual football in the field outside.

Another question that occurs to me is the question of nationality. Is this an especially English malaise? Or is this closing-off-through-technology phenomena happening globally?

Any thoughts on this or surrounding issues would be greatly appreciated.
 
 
Soldier of the Green
03:43 / 02.09.07
I think your topic title of no one talking to anyone may be misleading. Are you worried only that people won't talk face-to-face anymore (that it would be replaced by instant messaging or those great videophones that we were supposed to have by now)? Or that video games and AI will become immersive enough that there won't be a need for any kind of communication with human beings?

I'm sure someone said it before me, but I've always thought the idea that technology is supposed to make our lives easier is dead wrong. Technology is rarely meant to make our lives easier. I think its real purpose is to handle the complexity of modern populations in a way that its absence could not. It's not a luxury; it's a necessity to our ever-growing global population. This is not a complaint btw.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
12:14 / 02.09.07
Another question that occurs to me is the question of nationality. Is this an especially English malaise? Or is this closing-off-through-technology phenomena happening globally?

It could be to do with being English, or it could be to do with living in a consumer-capitalist society - where the "consumer" part brings a plethora of gadgets to be bought, and the "capitalist" part brings a system which prioritises "every-one in his own little box, with his own little pile".

Technology might work very differently in a different kind of society. What if the Greeks (Ancient, pre-Feudal) had realised the Steam Engine? Or if such had been invented in Feudal times? It might have been economically impossible for such inventions to happen, of course, but if technology had been bred to fit a different pattern of society, and if we could observe this, it might not be that technology inherently moves towards the kind of denoument ("No-one talking to eachother anymore") which you suggest.
 
 
Twig the Wonder Kid
13:27 / 03.09.07
Communication is such a human instinct we will always be drawn to it, and our current experiments with technology are really just new ways of talking to each other.

But I might agree with your concerns to an extent. Consider text messaging, the greatest comms success story of recent years is also the lowest fidelity, highest cost per bandwidth, and the one with the weakest ability for complex expression. The reason for it's popularity, I think, is that it is a way of avoiding full communication, rather than fascilitating it.
 
 
diz
23:25 / 06.09.07
The other day, back in England, I took the daily commuter train on the way home from London back to my parents house and noticed that everyone had headphones in, or was buried in their Blackberry, or walking their "dog" on their Nintendo DS and generally not interacting at all.

How is any of that not interacting? The Crackberry, most obviously, is a device used largely for communicating. The iPod and the Nintendo game are devices for listening to music and playing games, both of which are cultural interactions in a broader sense. The fact that the people they're interacting with aren't physically present makes the interaction different, but not less interesting or important.

At the same time as the iPod is a great thing, those telltale white headphones trailing out of your ears might as well be a sign saying "don't even try to talk to me". It's a very effective barrier.

And what's wrong with that? Is there some sort of moral obligation I'm not aware of to be open to conversation with anyone who happens to bump into you?

Good fences make good neighbors, as they say. I don't see why people having more control over whom they interact with when is a bad thing.

I, personally, enjoy random interactions and all that, but not everyone does, and even I don't all the time, so why not allow people more options?

Voicemail, sat nav, text messages are of course very useful, as i think this is the main reason why most technology develops, for functionality, to make every day tasks a bit easier, but then the intention becomes distorted and technology becomes about needing to have it, the materialistic urge, not for pure practicality.

That's sort of an unavoidable part of human nature. Hoarding resources and displaying your prowess at procuring said resources are both urges with deep roots in human psychology.

So I got as far as functionality vs. materialism, the useful vs. what seems to be somewhat alien.

It may seem to be alien, but it's not. It's also very functional - attracting mates, acquiring social status and so on. You've got a false dichotomy going on.

Increasingly people rely on, or are given no option other than technology.

And society is a gazillion times more efficient, which means that, collectively, we're able to achieve more and more and more people are getting access to a better standard of living. Again, this is not a problem.

Booking tickets to a gig, writing e-mails rather than letters, cinema tickets with touch tone phones and no human being is involved at all. Everything is available delivered to your front door without having to leave your home.

100% positive.

My mother told me a story of the days when her bank manager would cycle past her house in the mornings and leave a note on the windscreen of her car along the lines of "you better put some money in your account soon!"

Cute or creepy depending on your take on it, but, really, I would take internet banking over this any day of the week. I don't want to have to interact with another person for something I could do just as well myself.

Impersonal communication is encouraged, and basic knowledge like knowing how to lay out a letter or spell is all done for you with wizards and spell checkers, or letters simply aren't written where an informal e-mail will suffice.

Letters can be nice, but I prefer to think of them as a special sort of project rather than a practical method of communication. When I want to make someone a crafty little gift, a letter written on nice paper can be perfect, but when I just want to actually transmit information and get a response, fuck snail mail.

Will we end up in a world where you never have to talk face to face with anyone?

Here's hoping.

I like talking to people I choose to talk to when I am in the mood to talk to people. I don't like [i]having[/i] to talk to people to get things done.

I suspect many others feel the same. Face-to-face conversations fill different needs than, say, text message conversations do, and most people still feel the need to interact physically and still do so. It's just nice to be able to set boundaries where you don't have to when you don't want to. It's like abortion - every child a wanted child, and every conversation a wanted conversation.

The possible consequences of a world with no interaction are innumerable; but in its most basic form, people will just stop knowing how to interact, their interpersonal skills non existent.

This, frankly, is a load of bullshit. If anything, in my experience, it's the opposite - people who have the whole world opened to them through technological means of communication tend to have better people skills and are more sensitive to things like cultural difference and so on then someone who only deals with people in the face-to-face sense.

Is this already happening? Would living then become about just surviving?

No, the opposite. Most of human history, for most people, has just been about surviving, because between the advent of agriculture and the full flowering of industrialization, no one had much leisure time, few had any education worth speaking of, there was no ability to travel or communicate across long-distances. Most people spent every day of their pitifully short lives trying to scrape a subsistence existence out of the mud, never leaving their immediate area before dying in ignorance and poverty.

And another question that needs addressing: why is it that we are all so reliant on technology that ushers us into our own world, and blocks out the rest?

We're not. We furnish our inner worlds with things from the outer world. Someone who listens to Radiohead on their iPod in London is sharing a cultural connection with someone else who enjoys the same music in Hong Kong or Topeka or wherever, and more often than not they're going and reading and talking about the things they like with other people on an increasingly broad geographic basis. Discussing your favorite band on an internet message board is absolutely a cultural interaction as valid and real as arguing over the price of tomatoes with the old man selling fruits and vegetables from the stand on the corner.

As the world becomes increasingly ugly,

Overall, the world is a better place almost every day. I do not have time for people who want to wallow in pessimistic bullshit.

Technology, the iPod, the PSP, whatever it may be, all encourage blocking out the immediate real world and involving yourself in another world of fiction or fancy.

This is a false distinction. All reality is fiction, because we don't interact with real objects, we interact with the mental contructs our brains assemble out of our sensory input, using various cultural narratives that we've absorbed from growing up in a certain paradigm. There is no "real world" and no experience is more or less "authentic" than any other.

At university a lot more boys played Pro Evo football on the playstation than actual football in the field outside.

Why is that a problem? OK, it could lead to obesity, but aside from that, what's the issue?
 
 
Tsuga
23:55 / 06.09.07
There is no "real world" and no experience is more or less "authentic" than any other.
Yes, watching the sun set here on Barbelith is no more authentic than being in Hawaii for it with a little umbrella in my glass.

Ah, I can smell the pixellated breeze from here.

In response, I'll have to quote you again here:
This, frankly, is a load of bullshit.
You can, if you like, argue that people can have real, meaningful communications of different kinds using new technologies. They are authentically what they are. But c'mon, there is no "real world"? Did you just lick zedoktar?

I do not have time for people who want to wallow in pessimistic bullshit.
Well, then. Better move on. All there be here is bullshit wallowing.
 
 
All Acting Regiment
10:46 / 07.09.07
I agree that pessimism is dangerous, but yes, please don't accuse people of wallowing in bullshit. Approporiately enough, it's not very good for communication.

Thread Starter: Booking tickets to a gig, writing e-mails rather than letters, cinema tickets with touch tone phones and no human being is involved at all. Everything is available delivered to your front door without having to leave your home.

Reply: (This is) 100% positive.

It's certainly quick, it certainly gets what the customer wants to the customer, but doesn't it also discourage exercise (in the case of to-your-door delivery) and encourage flippancy (the ease with which one can write an email)? I'm not sure if it's really 100% positive in every way.

W/regards to: There is no "real world" and no experience is more or less "authentic" than any other.

This is perhaps true in a complicated fashion. Lacan, anyone?
 
 
All Acting Regiment
10:49 / 07.09.07
Further, I think the main problem this thread is showing us is that when we deisgn technology, we usually design it for a specific purpose to suit a specific need of a specific type of society - it can help us with this purpose, but it can also make that purpose so easy, so "natural", that we can forget it is not the only way of doing things. Guns, for example.
 
 
PatrickMM
01:53 / 09.09.07
There is no "real world" and no experience is more or less "authentic" than any other.

Even if this is the case, certain experiences are more enjoyable and fulfilling than others. The afforementioned sunset one is a good example, and regarding the video football, I'd argue an actual game is a lot more fun, but that sort of thing is becoming less common.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:50 / 09.09.07
I like that the vast swathes of humanity who can't afford mobile phones, iPods, Blackberries, palm-pilots, sufficient food, clean water, high tech shit like that, are largely excluded from this thread beyond the "When I was in [insert less wealthy nation] they did xyz, there's so much we could learn from them!" preamble. Eminently sensible. I mean, "the world" is basically America and the more upmarket bits of Western Europe, right? I vote we change the title of the thread to "Will we eventually live in a world where no-one worth mentioning talks to anyone worth bothering about?"
 
 
Disco is My Class War
06:04 / 11.09.07
Let's not forget that mobile phone and internet use is very high in most regions of Asia... So it's not just 'America and parts of Western Europe', necessarily.
 
 
garyancheta
11:34 / 11.09.07
New Technologies always bring this sort of malaise. When the first record was recorded, I remember a priest mentioning that he thought it sounded like "a banshee" instead of an opera singer. When the Queen of England first received a phone, there had to be a protocol established for her to use this new technology because of social decorum. When the telegraph and phone first came into public usage, we had women with soothing voices as dispatchers because it humanized the technology and made it more feminine...more trusting.

Even Plato railed against Aristotle for thinking that writing was anything but a cheat for lazy people who could not interact with others or posers who wanted to sound cool in public speaking engagements.

The culture of communication technology is always about humanizing objects so that we feel comfortable using these objects as replacements for actual people. A turntable was a tool for many many decades before it was fully realized as an instrument to be manipulated by a skillful scratcher.

According to Walter Ong (RIP), we are living in a time that is considered another shift in communication. The first was orality (speaking and organizing of culture around speech), the second was written (documents, charts, maps, plots that replace the "word of the king"), and the third is now secondary orality (where documentation becomes more like orality).

This form of communication affords us with a great amount flexibility with communication. I don't even think we've reached the apex of what this type of communication can provide. I sort of think we're getting closer to RTF and GPS Caching multiple virtual worlds on top of the same world...where I can track anyone or anything I need with my cell phone and pay for that thing or that person with my cell phone account.

This form also affords us with a very very different mentality than even our grandparents or great grandparents. The last time this thing sort of happened was the invention of the printing press, and this is even more overwhelming than that discovery.

I think communication is changing, not necessarily for the better or worse...but just changing into something we won't recognize in a generation or two. We talk about these technologies as being something separate...and I think, for this generation, it will be something separate.

Virtual Reality and Actual Reality are considered two different things at this point. But soon, I feel, we will be at the point where it is all considered as reality. We are the last generation born into a reality before a great communication/evolutionary change.

- G
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
14:10 / 18.09.07
Tumi My mother told me a story of the days when her bank manager would cycle past her house in the mornings and leave a note on the windscreen of her car along the lines of "you better put some money in your account soon!" These days internet banking rules. The days of personal communication are fading fast.

That's a bit of a false wossname there isn't it? People don't get notes from their bank managers because they internet bank?Isn't it rather that the communities of forty-fifty years ago which were largely stable and didn't move much except in the case of some large catastrophe have largely gone now? My parents have lived in the same house in the same village for the last thirty years but never got such personal service so I could argue that your Mum's experience is extraordinary rather than the norm.
 
 
semioticrobotic
01:00 / 22.09.07
I'd like to point out an essay entitled "Communication as techne`" by Jonathan Sterne from the excellent collection entitled Communication As: Perspectives on Theory, which I use in my Interpersonal Communication course and which students seem to enjoy.

I won't use this space to recap the entire essay; however, I do want to ask diz about the meaning of "practical communication." Does any other kind exist? If communication is a techne` -- a practical knowing-doing -- then how can it function as anything other than practice? How could it historically have been anything but? And if this is the case, how can technology -- the root of which is also "techne`," a root it shares with "technique" -- be anything but the material concretization of repeat practice (thinking more about the above). In short: I fear the conversation becomes a bit too deterministic when we either 1) try to talk about technology as existing independently of the social practices it enables and constrains or 2) try to talk about technology as that which easily bends to the whim of human agents.

Thinking about technology this way might help us avoid sticky problems with "blocking out" the "real world" and instead help us thinking about how our techniques -- and the technologies that coalesce around them and in turn shape them -- function to articulate the rhythms of everyday life. It also helps us avoid some of the problems of equating technology with "progress" or "efficiency." As rightly noted above, technology does not inherently provide either of these things (though our discourse about it certainly does).
 
 
Tryphena Absent
11:34 / 22.09.07
What's really sweet about this thread is that it's perfectly obvious that none of you have ever had to do a job that includes extensive data input.

If a computer doesn't do it a human has to. Have you got any idea how boring it is to sit in a ticket office and answer the phone to people who want to see a film at half past 9 and would like to sit at the back of the cinema? At my work very little is automated, around a quarter of people don't know their direct debit details, some think that their account number is the same as the big number across the front of their credit/debit cards, people yell at you because the Royal Mail lost their magazines but their post never goes missing. After listening to a load of people who are completely fucking insane on the phone every day because we don't automate our systems plugging my ipod into my ears is like a dream.

I suspect that around half of you have yelled at someone in a customer services department at some point, you will probably not have been the first or last person to be rude to them that day and now you're talking about their need to be alone as escapism but maybe they're just sick of the sound of stranger's voices? Some things are logical, our technology helps us overcome negativity about the modern world and the way it functions, human contact is sometimes not a positive thing and any assumption that it just is should be questioned.

why is it that we are all so reliant on technology that ushers us into our own world, and blocks out the rest? I came to the conclusion that it all comes down to escapism

We're not reliant, it's a relief, particularly when you live in a city where you can't escape people and there are millions of them. Your conclusion is erroneous.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:56 / 22.09.07
I heartily concur with Tryphena, above. There's also the little matter of the sanctuary offered by headphones from harrassment; I like being able to replace overfriendly pissheads and large crowds of vocal males seeking to intimidate me on public transport with a spot of Scissor Sisters, ta very much. Possibly I am missing out on some wonder of human interaction if I do not attend carefully to the inebriated gentlemen singing a Macc Lads song at the back of the bus, but it's a risk I'm willing to take.

I'd also point out that we've had personal stereos since I was a kid and people are still talking. iPods are worse, why, because they're white?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
15:09 / 22.09.07
Disco: true, but my point still stands. It seems illogical to me to talk about "a world" where people have ceased interpersonal communication due to the availability of high technology when most people on the planet do not have access to these goods or anything like them.
 
 
Olulabelle
12:06 / 30.09.07
Yes I think comparing how western people behave around technology with how people from other less developed coutries behave isn't very productive, because it's only a personal distinction that it's better to be more reliant on human interaction.

Discussing your favorite band on an internet message board is absolutely a cultural interaction as valid and real as arguing over the price of tomatoes with the old man selling fruits and vegetables from the stand on the corner.

I don't think this has any validity as a comparison. Of course both those things are valid as cultural interactions, they're both completely different cultural interactions.

Maybe you could compare buying a tomato online with 'arguing over the price of tomatoes with the old man selling fruits and vegetables from the stand on the corner' because then the online purchase does become less valid as a cultural interaction on a few levels, including the value of conversation - having a response from another human being, as in the case of the old man and also the case of the internet discussion but not in the case of the internet tomato purchase. On another level it's worth comparing because a human to human interaction alows for some discussion over price, whereas the internet purchase price is set by a company and fixed. The purchaser is removed from being able to debate a price or consider quality or any of those things and that becomes a very disappointing cultural interaction and not really an interaction at all.
 
 
gu
00:29 / 12.11.07
Tryphena makes an excellent point; some jobs are simply boring, and are best handled by computers rather than humans. Personally, I think that face-to-face communication is rather important, though it has its own time and place. You can hardly strike up a full-fledged conversation with your bank teller or ticket booth attendant without pissing off a whole lot of people behind you in line.

Anyway, going back to my opinion on the importance of non digital interaction, I think it's the best way to convey emotions. Also, I think that face-to-face interaction is the best way to create strong friendships. Sure, you can meet people through the Internet, but it seems like there's a certain indescribable something missing when your friendships were formed through something more impersonal than an initial meeting in the flesh, such as email or social networking.

Sorry to jump around with ideas, but Tumi's statement, "At the same time as the iPod is a great thing, those telltale white headphones trailing out of your ears might as well be a sign saying 'don't even try to talk to me,'" describes exactly what I don't like about today's culture, at least here in the US. People today seem to disregard anything said by strangers, however friendly, and they seem to barricade themselves against what's going on around them by simply turning on their iPod.

In August, I went hiking for the first time on Vermont's Long Trail and I couldn't believe how nice and social everyone was. In the hostel I stayed at, literally everybody was willing to talk about hiking or nothing in particular, and I met a ton of great people, including a man who was hiking the Appalachian Trail with a ferret and a couple of Australian guys who invited me to go drinking.

The fact that the people they're interacting with aren't physically present makes the interaction different, but not less interesting or important.

While that may be true, the issue of direct versus digital interaction may simply come down to a matter of personal opinion, as each party can decide on their own preferred method of communication.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
09:25 / 12.11.07
People today seem to disregard anything said by strangers, however friendly

Maybe it's different for MI folks but, unless I am at a social gathering or participating on some event where one might reasonably expect to have something in common with the other attendees, I tend to respond cooly to strangers' "friendly" overtures. 99 times out of 100 they are either going to ask me for money or get way too friendly.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:55 / 12.11.07
I could have sworn it was asked first time round what the difference is between iPods and personal cassette players - or does "today" start just under 30 years ago?
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
15:27 / 12.11.07
It does if you're a glacier.

You know, when this thead started I was immediately reminded of this Cracked article, which I didn't bring up because, y'know, it's a Cracked article and shares bandwidth with 'The Next 9 Children's Characters That Should Come Out of the Closet' and '5 Mental Disorders That Can Totally Get You Laid'. However, it says basically the same things as this thread (the pessimistic part of the argument anyway) but better (and a bit funnier).
 
 
HCE
15:30 / 12.11.07
People today seem to disregard anything said by strangers, however friendly, and they seem to barricade themselves against what's going on around them by simply turning on their iPod.

Population density, isn't it. With lower population density, people know of each other even if they're not friends. There's some context. With high population density, you may not even know your neighbors. I don't think it's about today versus some mythical yesterday so much as it is about urban rather than rural areas.

There's a lot of psychological pressure that comes from living in an urban area with high density, and even more so in a multicultural society. Seeking privacy, whether through use of an object (sunglasses, earphones, book, newspaper, umbrella, hat) or behavior (social rules limiting when and how much strangers speak to each other, body language) seems like a coping strategy more than a hostile act.
 
 
gu
19:13 / 12.11.07
I don't think it's about today versus some mythical yesterday so much as it is about urban rather than rural areas.

I very much agree with that statement; naturally, in a fast-paced, densely populated city, stress levels are going to be higher. This may be the faster life, the claustrophobic feeling of being trapped in between skyscrapers, or a mixture of both. I live in an average sized town and I'm a very apathetic person by nature, but on visits to places like New York, the way you described the psychological pressure present is very accurate.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:05 / 23.11.07
That's entirely subjective. Some people very much prefer living in a large and densely populated urban environment. There's no reason why high densities should negatively affect quality of life if cities receive the right kind of planning, design and upkeep - although obviously this doesn't always happen, to be put it mildly. Nevertheless, in spite of the problems that affect many major cities, they tend to have positive aspects which certain people may feel outweigh their negatives - conviviality, culture, a sense of buzz, sometimes greater tolerance. (I wouldn't live anywhere else in England than London, for example.)
 
 
teleute
14:49 / 23.11.07
JtLemonslice >> Also, I think that face-to-face interaction is the best way to create strong friendships. Sure, you can meet people through the Internet, but it seems like there's a certain indescribable something missing when your friendships were formed through something more impersonal than an initial meeting in the flesh

I received a message on Monday that a friend had sadly passed away. The message was sent by e-mail. The friend who passed away was someone I had never met in person, nor could I have met in the flesh due to geographical distance. Yet he was still a real friend of five years standing, with whom I'd swapped conversation, opinions and problems. He taught me a lot, not least about human nature. Yes, we communicated by e-mail, but you can make this a living, breathing extension of yourself. You can send pictures, links, ideas, stories and opinions. In addition we were both fascinated by small cultural differences such as dialect and language.

I mention him because had I met him on a casual basis we may never have struck up a conversation. He was twenty years older than me, on the surface we were very different people, but I learned from him that people from totally different cultures, ages, genders, outlooks and politics could still have an inordinate amount in common. I was able to be more honest with him about myself than I am with my flesh and blood friends who find some aspects of who I am difficult to deal with.

It may sound mawkish, it may sound stupid, but I counted him as a real friend who always looked out for me. Often in the 'real' world we are too quick to judge people by their outward appearance without seeing the person inside. If I'd done that in this case I would have missed out in a great teacher and friend. And my grief for him is real. I was privelidged to know him.

Incidently, my Ipod is furnished with black headphones, the white ones provided being generally useless (another discussion I'm sure), also because I don't wish to be attacked for them. I also use it on public transport to avoid harassment from drunks, chavs and other assorted wildlife that populate my unpoliced local rail network. I avoid eye contact with strangers - not because I'm not friendly but because I'm a five foot tall woman who has to walk home by herself in the dark.
 
 
Tsuga
21:35 / 23.11.07
I learned from him that people from totally different cultures, ages, genders, outlooks and politics could still have an inordinate amount in common
...
drunks, chavs and other assorted wildlife

Just pointing out a bit of a disconnect there, and mentioning the use of that term is generally unaccepted around here, for pretty good reasons.

As far as the reality of your friendship with someone you've never met in person, it doesn't sound mawkish or stupid to say that you felt as though he was a true friend, I'm sure you're right, you would know. It's only a different thing than knowing and interacting with someone in person. I'm sure that these kind of relationships develop their own unique dynamics that couldn't be the same as in direct physical interaction.
Sorry about your friend.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
09:03 / 14.12.07
Indeed. Please don't say "chav," mate. Also not really liking the term wildlife as a description, to be completely honest, but that's more of a grey area.
 
  
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