BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Jeph Loeb ruining the Wolverine mythology

 
  

Page: 12(3)

 
 
This Sunday
22:47 / 21.08.07
I really liked the Hatter oneshot. Not necessarily a fictional rotation of the great questions of human existence, but certainly fun and creepy.
 
 
Mark Parsons
05:39 / 22.08.07
"Furioso: Please do not accuse anyone else of pomposity or self-imnportance until you have taken a nice, long look at this post of yourn, and then possibly decided to have a little lie down and a glass of grown-up juice."

Sorry, once-and-former-haus, and with all due respect, but I do not see my advice on that thread (in regards to a comic) as applying here (in regards to...well we all know what that is at this point). If those two want to bring up the "unpleasant topic" in dismissive fashion and excuse their remarks as some kind of valid criticism, then I'll slate as I see fit. Maybe I'm being overly pissed off for slightly personal reasons, but honestly I don't think so.

And thank you for quoting my bum cheeks remark. God bless you.

GETTING BACK ON TOPIC: has Wolverine (solo) ever actually been good/top drawer? Is there anything to "mess up?" I liked the Clairmont/Miller story and the Millar/JRJR one (even though it puttered out in the end) but other than that, I've rarely followed the solo books.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
06:51 / 22.08.07
Well, the bulk of the stories based around Wolverine starting to 'discover' his past in his title after Bary Windsor-Smith had done the 'Experiment X' thing were okay, following Petey's working, the main star there was 'the mystery' and Wolverine himself was supporting cast in his own book to it. From what I can recall it was often incoherent and relied on energy to get the reader through, I'm not clear why the telepath on the Experiment X team made Wolverine think Sabretooth had killed Silver Fox, or why Sabretooth thought he was Wolverine's father, but as these stories are more than fifteen years old they may not 'exist' any more, thanks to Scarlet Witch punching the walls of Heaven.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
00:12 / 23.08.07
I have now joined the ranks of Neville Barker and, it seems, nobody else here and actually read a copy of Loeb's Wolverine run. I realise that this is crazy of me, in the context of this thread and in fact in absolute terms, but there you go. I was curious.

It was great.

OK, not so much great as "not very good at all". There are a couple of problems with it.

1) It opens with a full-page spread of Cyclops holding a samurai sword. Now, the thing about Cyclops is that he can shoot beams of concussive force from his eyes. If you have persuaded Cyclops, who can shoot beams of concussive force from his eyes, to fight you with a samurai sword, especially if you are a totally awesome ninja, you have really won half the battle. So. Man with a sword - scary. Cyclops with a sword - slightly less scary than Cyclops without a sword.

2) The "Muramasa sword", which can harm Wolverine or Sabretooth (and presumably Wild Child, but who cares?) without their healing factor being able to repair the damage, is presumably an existing McGuffin. It's a bit of a silly idea. In particular, it would either have to be able to cut through adamantium, or one would have to immobilise Wolverine and then joint him (I know, that wouldn't actually work, either, because his joints are adamantium-infused - one would in fact have to pin him down and scrape all his flesh off, or get him in the heart, I suppose - since it is not going to happen, this is idle speculation), making Cyclops' fighting posture in the two-page splash on pages two and three particularly pointless, since he would be rather better advised to hit him with the force beams that come out of his eyes, and then take it from there.

3) Wolverine almost regrets allowing Emma to see into his mind to show how horrid Sabretooth is. Almost. What does this second "almost" mean? That he doesn't like Emma? That he actually likes on some level the thought of making Emma see naughty lady murder? The same certainly applies to us, as we get a full-page spread of Sabretooth putting women in refrigerators.

4) Another problem here - Wolverine uses the word "canucklehead". Not to get all John Byrne, but this is a recognisably awful word, which one probably would not use in reference to oneself. Even worse, however, he does not actually use it of himself, but of his own head. Strictly speaking, it should have been his "canucklehead head" or, to make clear that he is from Canada, his "Canuck canucklehead head".

5) Ah well. The revelation that Sabretooth is a meany persuades Cyclops to fork over the sword, and Wolverine goes off to hunt Sabretooth, after a women-in-refrigerators-again flashback to retrieving Feral's body (incidentally, Feral: give a shit). This flashback also shows Wolfsbane using the phrase "I dinnae can say", as apparently did the previous issue, so this may be a direct repeat of last issue's action.

6) A word on flashbacks. The issue is constructed as a series of flashbacks, theoretically moving ever closer to the present - with Emma's mind probe being a flashback in a flashback. However, these episodes are out of sequence, I believe, which messes with the device rather.

7) After which Wolverine kills Sabretooth, Wild Child turns up and exposits, and Wolverine says that when Romulus wants to do fighty, he'll be up for it. The end... for now.

So, what's the big? It's a pretty bad comic book. In fact, it's quite awful. There are a startling number of one-page panels, or pages in which Bianchi is expected to do the heavy lifting. A chunk of it appears to be a simple recap of the events of the previous issue, or remembrances of bad things Sabretooth has done (Emma's page, and then a couple of pages on Silver Fox, who rather underlines the problem with this sort of thing by maybe not actually being dead at all, having already been killed twice). Wild Child delivers the exposition on Romulus on a double-page spread made up of a single image, without even much of a background... the whole thing looks rushed and content-light, which is a shame, because the main point of buying the title would probably be Bianchi's artwork. However, it's done with. Wolverine has killed Sabretooth, but it won't stick - he'll come back, either through cloning, healing factor or that not actually being Sabretooth at all. The Romulus plot is not even, it seems, going to be advanced inside the pages of Wolverine's own comic, and is unlikely to be addressed anywhere else, not least because it is toss, so will probably be ignored or forgotten.

There is something interesting here about continuity, though. In Loeb's run, Sabretooth is free to wander around the X-mansion, not imprisoned on a floating battleship. This, I think, helps to illustrate one of the key points - that Marvel continuity is not so much consistent as floating-point. Cassandra Nova is in-continuity in New X-Men and Astonishing X-Men, but the latter ignores the fairly obvious element of Nova being Ernst. She turns up very briefly in Chuck Austen's X-Men, and is then ignored, and the idea of Mummudrai crops up in Casey's, but as long as you don't break it you can do pretty much what you want with the character. Likewise, here we have Wolverine as leading brunette Lupine, Wild Child turned into Edward Claweyhands (not that anyone cares) and Sabretooth dead, all of which will eventually be retconned or forgotten. In the meantime, a principled objection to Loeb's writing might best be expressed, as has been expressed more or less douchetastically within this thread, by not buying the comics he is writing.

There's a broader issue with the Wolverine comic book concept, which is that it is, ultimately, pointless, for the reasons outlined above by Flyboy. Wolverine works as an abrasive face in a team environment, and outside that there isn't an awful lot to do with him. Consider his rogue's gallery, all of whom are basically bits of him. Sabretooth - claws, healing factor, intermittently adamantium bones. Wild Child - claws, healing fact, amazing nobody cares power. Cyber - adamantium skin. Omega Red - bargain-basement adamantium tentacles (carbonadium is Latin for whatever). If you like Wolverine and want to see what Wolverine was doing at any given period in the last few hundred years, or Wolverine killing some ninjas, fair enough. Some of the stuff with Albert and Elsie-Dee was quite fun, if bonkers. The no-adamantium bit was all right, but the resolution - Apocalypse's son gives him his adamanntium back! No he doesn't! Oh, but Apocalypse does. OK - was textbook Wolverine - overlong and overwrought, and with faintly absurd amounts of adamantium bouncing around. I can't think of any time, really, when this would not be considered a somewhat guilty pleasure.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
02:58 / 23.08.07
It opens with a full-page spread of Cyclops holding a samurai sword. Now, the thing about Cyclops is that he can shoot beams of concussive force from his eyes. If you have persuaded Cyclops, who can shoot beams of concussive force from his eyes, to fight you with a samurai sword, especially if you are a totally awesome ninja, you have really won half the battle. So. Man with a sword - scary. Cyclops with a sword - slightly less scary than Cyclops without a sword

B-but, surely, that's failing to take account of the possibility that Cyclops might have shot his eye beams at his samurai sword, and from there, in a targeted way, (thus taking advantage of the laws of physics) onto the swords of all his attackers, thereby making their swords burn in their hands, the scum. Having disarmed them thus, Cyclops would then be able to take the lot of them out at his leisure, with the kind of wide-angle eye-beam you mention.

All right, I haven't read this - I don't know what Cyclops actually did - but I still can't help wondering if your blind spot about this, tactically, mightn't mean you need to spend a bit more time in the Danger Room.

Because as things stand, I think you might possibly (and I'm genuinely sorry to say this) be a bit of a liability, in the field.
 
 
John Octave
05:09 / 23.08.07
that's failing to take account of the possibility that Cyclops might have shot his eye beams at his samurai sword, and from there, in a targeted way, (thus taking advantage of the laws of physics) onto the swords of all his attackers, thereby making their swords burn in their hands, the scum.

A-hem!

1.) Technically, Cyclops takes advantage of the rules of geometry, and Chris Claremont will tell you in a very elaborate and wordy caption that Scott Summers has an innate knowledge of trajectories.

2.) Also, he is actually breaking the laws of physics. Wikipedia (I will reference it as I please, John Byrne!) informs me that Cyclops' optic force blasts contain a marked physical improbability: according to Newton's third law (of reciprocal actions), when Scott releases his optic blasts his neck should be thrust backward with equal force, which would be enough to snap his neck several times over.

3.) "Burn in their hands"? Cyclops' eyebeams are concussive and do not actually give off any heat.

If Haus indeed needs to spend more time in the Danger Room, perhaps you ought devote some similar hours to perusing the Cerebro files.
 
 
John Octave
05:21 / 23.08.07
In all seriousness, however, the reviews I've read of this issue are fascinating. As a rule I don't buy bad comics for the sake of watching a trainwreck, but the sheer oddness of this story interests me.

Might Loeb have had some editorial interference on this? I've heard it said that this Romulus is nothing but a villain set up for the Origins companion book.

And also, although I dislike the overwroughtness of the Jeph Loeb comics I've read (those Our Worlds at War comics with the snippets of historical speeches thrown in), they were all straightforward and competently told narratives. It seems difficult to believe that someone who has shown to have a competent grasp on how a story works would write something with such glaring problems in plotting and dialogue.
 
 
Essential Dazzler
16:31 / 23.08.07
Quick question, how many other characters from Marvel and DC have more than one ongoing monthly? Superman and Batman I know for sure. Is the Supergirl in th LOSH book the same as solo Supergirl? Spider-Man has three. There's more than one Green Lantern book, but they're a corps...

Any I've missed?
 
 
The Falcon
16:42 / 23.08.07
Dead Captain America has had since his death effectively two comics monthly; Fallen Son, The Chosen(?), whatever guff Alex Ross comes up with...

But I feel the dead Cap $ is liable to deflate at some point, ideally when no-one at all buys the latter. Unlikely, howevs.

Basically the major reason for Wolverine's doppelbuch status is because he is Marvel's second most saleable character, Spidey always being first, effectively emblematic of the X-Men. This wasn't always the case, of course; I believe Hulk was big in the late seventies and did for a short time sustain two books, one b/w(?), back then but he's really only returned to any sort of prominence this year since then, PAD run accounted for.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
15:50 / 11.10.07
This month's issue, in which we learn that whenever Wolverine's suffered a life-threatening injury he's gone to purgatory and fought ... well I don't want to spoil it, is really quite an impressive piece of work, in it's way.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:18 / 11.10.07
Well, surely it has to be:

1) Satan
2) Sabretooth
3) His dad

Yes?
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
18:52 / 11.10.07
The way things are going, my vote is for

4) All of the above
 
 
Jamie
19:45 / 11.10.07
This is Marvel, though -- which Satan: Daimon Hellstrom? Marduk Kurios? Mephisto? (My favourite) Satannish?
 
 
Evil Scientist
07:10 / 15.10.07
The Warheads.

Come on...someone must remember The Warheads?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
07:23 / 15.10.07
The actual answer, folks (I didn't buy it, I promise you) is Azrael.

Sadly, not that Azrael. An angel.
 
  

Page: 12(3)

 
  
Add Your Reply