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Ditko, Jonathan Ross & BBC 4's Comics Brittania season

 
  

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Haus of Mystery
11:20 / 06.07.07
Well blow me down..

Sounds pretty interesting, if not downright unusual. I had no idea...Is it a hoax. Am I being thick?
 
 
Spaniel
11:34 / 06.07.07
Might as well quote the thing to give some context

Famed BBC Radio and TV personality Jonathan Ross has been working on a documentary for the BBC (the state-owned, television and radio empire in England) about the co-creator and original artist of the Amazing Spider-Man, Steve Ditko… Jonathan contacted me back in January regarding research for the documentary he’s producing entitled, “In Search of Steve Ditko.” It’s going to be a one-hour documentary on BBC4 (the BBC’s art channel in the UK).

The long list of those interviewed for the documentary include: Jerry Robinson, John Romita, Neil Gaiman, Paul Levitz, Ralph Macchio, Flo Steinberg, Alan Moore, Mark Millar, Stan Lee, Cat Yronwode and others, all filmed in the U.K., New York City and Los Angeles.

Jonathan is a huge Ditko admirer, even braving every Ditko fan’s fear of rejection by knocking on Steve’s studio door in Manhattan and chatting with him for over 20 minutes back in mid February.


From Newsarama
 
 
Haus of Mystery
11:50 / 06.07.07
I've gotta admire Wossy for using his status to make pet projects like these. I mean without his name attached, there's no way on earth this would get made. I'm genuinely curious - by all accounts Ditko is a reclusive, who has kept firmly out of the fanboy limelight whilst pursuing a singular political vision in comics. i'd be interested to see how he responds to Ross (although this will be good Ross rather than the abominable chat-show host Ross, so he's usually suitably reverant dealing with his idols).
 
 
_Boboss
12:51 / 06.07.07
he's mentioned this a couple of times on his radio show - does seem very much a labour of love, and is a bit of a coup too. woss annoys me more by the minute, but this and his japanorama series both deserve a goody gumdrops from me.
 
 
Mark Parsons
16:03 / 08.07.07
Ditko has studio space! I was not aware that he'd been working much in recent years. maybe comission pieces?
 
 
FinderWolf
02:22 / 21.08.07
Rich Johnston covered this story this very week...

>> STALKING MR DITKO

This weekend, I have mostly been watching "In Search Of Steve Ditko," the upcoming BBC4 programme where Jonathan Ross goes in search of his comics artistic hero.

Jonathan Ross is a national institution in the UK. In the mold of David Letterman, he has created a number of chat show formats, as well as introducing Britain to Vic Reeves and Bob Mortimer, whose influence in British comedy would dominate the nineties. He's a regular participant of "Comic Relief," a weekly BBC Radio 2 show, the host of the BBC's weekly film review show and the recipient of an £18 million deal over five years at the BBC. Which he has spent mostly on comics. He used to own a comic shop in Soho, London called Top Ten, is the biggest single customer of comics in the UK and owns a number of copies of "Amazing Fantasy" #15.

American comic geeks probably know him best for kissing Neil Gaiman at the Eisners this year.

So what better man to introduce Britain, especially the snobby arty types like me who watch BBC4, to Steve Ditko?

And he does an admirable job. With comics fan BBC Radio DJ Paul Gambaccinni and Mark Millar both enthusing over Jonathan's collection (Mark discovering the only way to get a word past Paul is to be filmed on a separate camera), Ross plots Ditko's career and influence, talking to Cat Yronwode, Flo Steinberg, Joe Quesada, John Romita Sr., Joseph Rubenstein and many more. Ross even shows a clip from the bloodthirsty Turkish Spider-Man TV show. And Alan Moore recited his Steve Ditko song lyrics.

And Ross paints a man of mystery of strange genius, of peculiar politics who came to Marvel, left his mark and then left, never being truly acknowledged for his influence. Annoyingly it cuts out Ditko's return to Marvel with projects such as "Machine Man" and "Speedball," seemingly because it spoils the narrative being painted.

But amazingly, Ross does something with Stan Lee that I've never seen on camera. He presses the point over Stan's acknowledgement of Steve Ditko as co-creator of Spider-Man and for about twenty seconds, Stan drops the mask. The huckster, the showman, the face-front of Marvel is gone and you see the true man behind... before the mask comes back up again. For someone who's been brought up on Stan Lee, hell I even interviewed him myself twelve years ago, it's incredibly unsettling and worth the whole programme.

And then Ross, hand in hand with Neil Gaiman, goes stalking Steve Ditko across New York City, giving anyone else who wishes to do the same all the information they need. Do they succeed? Well, that's presumably one of the reasons you'll want to watch the show.

It's a bizarre show, both Ditko/Comics 101 for a general audience, but also exploring some of the myths and legends that genuinely have grown up around Ditko, with an incredibly enjoyable presenter who means every word he says.

The show airs on BBC4 on September 18th at 9:30pm for 60 minutes. Odds are it'll be on YouTube the day after. Set your Sky Plus boxes... now!

--------------------------------------------------------

I look forward to seeing it on YouTube then , since I'm a Yank.
 
 
Spaniel
09:17 / 21.08.07
If I ould digitize it for you, Finder, I would.

Excited
 
 
matsya
04:35 / 22.08.07
i just wanna say:

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

oh, i do like a good fanboy squeal.

i heart stevie d. so focused in his whatever it is.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:37 / 22.08.07
I wonder how the guy made money living in obscurity... it's not like Dikto made lots of royalities from his work at Marvel... I guess he did advertising work or something?
 
 
Spaniel
08:56 / 17.09.07
Spoilers ahead...

Well I watched this last night and, okay I admit it, I can't help but squeal with glee when I see pretty much anything comic orientated on telly, but was it really any good? Now that my feet are on the ground I have distinctly mixed feelings - it certainly isn't anything like as good as ol' Rich would have us believe. For the most part it was pretty information light, padded out with lots of exerpts from the Spiderman movies (once would have been enough to make the point that, yes, Spiderman is a world wide, bazillion dollar phenomenon, 5 or six clips was overkill), which isn't really a surprise given that the concept was so thin, and made thinner still by the rather problematic lack of Ditko orienated fact out there in the world (the Stan Lee bit is undeniably good, but not quite as toe-curlingly awkward as I was expecting). The show's premise - that Steve Ditko is a mysterious recluse and therefore needs to be sought out - sort of guaranteed that the programme makers wouldn't have much to go on.

What they did have, however, was his body of work, and inevitably the show's focus was more an exploration of that and what it means to a wide variety of comic book professionals and the world at large. And, sure, there's stuff to say about that, but I couldn't help feeling that there was a big gaping whole in the show that the creators had real difficulty trying to fill: Ditko himself. A point really hammered home when, in the last ten minutes, Ross and Gaiman manage to meet with the man, sans camera crew, and are told not to utter a word of what they discussed. Ross is true to his word and the audience are left in the dark. If that wasn't bad enough what we then get is a spectacularly bad bit of padding where Ross, back in the studio, recounts to us exactly what we have just bloody well seen!

All in alll, not awful - reasonably entertaining if you're a big geek - but kind of lacking in substance.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
11:47 / 17.09.07
Yeah, I agree for the most part. Nice that Ross got to pursue a deeply personal project, and his and everyone else's enthuiasm was infectious, but ultimately it was pretty pointless. The best thing was all that lovely Ditko artwork evrywhere (especially the nutzoid looking Mr A stuff) I wonder what a non-comic fan would have made of it really.
 
 
Janean Patience
12:05 / 17.09.07
I quite enjoyed it, not knowing an awful lot about Ditko. Ross's biggest asset here, as it was on The Incredibly Strange Film Show all those years ago, is his infectious enthusiasm. He made me care about Ditko and his strange story which I didn't much before this, having never carried a torch for Spider-Man or Dr Strange and only being familiar with the Question from the O'Neill/Cowan run.

That said, the problem with documentaries on comics is always the visuals. Panning across the comics page is inherently tiresome, especially when you're seeing the same panels again and again. Would it have hurt to put some other Ditko Strange pages on the rostrum camera? Illustrating it with clips from the Spider-Man movies is understandable, as that's a visual representation of Ditko's greatest work which is suited to the medium we're watching, ie TV. Pointing out how faithful the movies are to the Ditko conception of Peter Parker wouldn't have gone amiss, though.

And the ending was an anti-climax... but it was always likely to be. Establishing Ditko as one of the great recluses of 20th-century art was the point, and a happy ending where Ross and Gaiman got given comics was an unexpected twist even if it wasn't visual. It was quite funny: the famous recluse who won't be photographed or interviewed won't be photographed or interviewed, but he's apparently perfectly pleasant.
 
 
Spaniel
12:56 / 17.09.07
Illustrating it with clips from the Spider-Man movies is understandable

Understandable, yes, necessary even, but I maintain there was far too much of it.

I agree about Ross's enthusiasm. If it wasn't for his energy (and his quite frankly charming humanity when he discussed meeting his hero), and the energy of some of the other commentators (Moore and Gambachini were great), the enterprise would've been flat as pancakes.

You know, I just love to watch people geek out. Joy really is compelling stuff.
 
 
Spaniel
13:04 / 17.09.07
Also, I don't think the absence of a meeting was just a nice little twist. Granted meeting Ditko wasn't necessary - a perfectly adequate documentary about his work was made despite his absence - but the show was absolutely for sure interested in Ditko the man not just his work. Unfortunately Ditko the man remained, not merely absent, but extremely nebulous.

That Mr A stuff is nuts. I'm sure I read some a few years ago, but fuck knows where.
 
 
Spaniel
14:07 / 17.09.07
The show's premise - that Steve Ditko is a mysterious recluse and therefore needs to be sought out - sort of guaranteed that the programme makers wouldn't have much to go on.

Of course that isn't really the show's premise it's part of the show's premise. The search for Steve Ditko being as much a sift through culture as it is an achul real quest.

Pillock Boboss.
 
 
Janean Patience
14:27 / 17.09.07
I explained the premise of the show to my partner, who remarked on the seemingly high number of complete nutjobs in the comics field. It wasn't an argument I was convingingly able to refute. In Search Of Dave Sim should get the green light in a few more years if he carries on the way he has. At least Alan Moore, with his slightly comical Midlands accent ("Spoider-Man"), is sociable in his madness.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
14:39 / 17.09.07
It occurs to me that I only seem to picture Dave Sim as the fatbeard equivalent of General Jack D. Ripper from Doctor Straneglove, talking constantly about precious bodily fluids.
 
 
Janean Patience
14:58 / 17.09.07
Quite the opposite. Dave Sim hates his bodily fluids and the dirty, dirty urges they cause him. He won't let his sperms out ever in case they make him want to be near Marxist feminists. (Everyone.) He does like to go to Toronto and watch teenage girls, though, because they've not yet been corrupted by the madness of feminism and won't immediately demand alimony.
 
 
MattShepherd: I WEDDED KALI!
15:49 / 17.09.07
Mod hat: we've got at least two "Sim's a nutter!" threads on the go already, and any mention of Sim tends to derail threads into discussion of Simnutterdom, so let's leave him to the Female Void for the mo'.

How about that Ditko though, huh?

Haven't seen the doc and am not likely to, but was there any indication that his seclusion and the rather... singular Randian worldview that Mr. A showed were part and parcel? Or did they get into the moral philosophy of the Ditkoverse at all?

It's kind of hard to get behind Ditko's views of the world, or at least those he expresses through Mr. A, and a lot easier to go "whiz bang he sure did some keen comics! Too bad he's a bit of a loony!" I'm wondering where on the spectrum the doc fell.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
16:30 / 17.09.07
Refreshingly non-judgemental I thought. It would have been nice if perhaps they'd gone a little further in depth, but I'm amazed that the thing even got made in the first place.
Moore's contributions were interesting, as expected (naturally his admiration of Ditko seemed to stem mostly from his obstinate morality over creator's rights), and Gambaccini added a bit of outside interest, but a few more diverse talking heads might have provided some perspective. I actually thought the Stan Lee bit was fascinating. I really don't know how I feel about him, but he is definitely an intersting man. I'd like to see a doc getting under the skin of his showman exterior, but it seems unlikely.
 
 
Spaniel
17:41 / 17.09.07
Yeah, it was nice to see that Ross was prepared to tackle Ditko's rather eccentric, perhaps worrisome world view. Nice that this wasn't simply a hagiography.
 
 
Janean Patience
20:22 / 17.09.07
Haven't seen the doc and am not likely to, but was there any indication that his seclusion and the rather... singular Randian worldview that Mr. A showed were part and parcel? Or did they get into the moral philosophy of the Ditkoverse at all?

The weirding of Steve Ditko was shown, through necessity or design, via his art. We went from the nine-panel grids though still rather odd figures of Spider-Man to the surrealist forms of Doctor Strange to the Question, identified by Alan Moore as "loike sometthing out of a dream," to Mr A and that one splash where he's shown walking the only straight, clear route through a swirling, confused storm of moral ambivalence and disorder. Stuff that fitted this approach - the Creeper - was included. Stuff that didn't - a lengthy ROM run - was left out. There was an impression of a man hemmed in, unconsciously exorcising demons. His moral philosophies were discussed but not at length. And his reasons for retreating from the world of comics he still has such an influence on weren't really discussed. Which is to me a good thing because it'd only be conjecture. Nobody knows what went on in Ditko's head. The only clues we have are from his stories, and they're at best an inaccurate tool.
 
 
_Boboss
20:39 / 17.09.07
i had a great time with it. even neil seemed nice. auntie beeb way has it in for uncle al though - they absolutely will not shoot him without encouraging his worst amdram tics. that slow close-up basically scuppered the likelihood of the missus reading from hell for at least another five years.

been having a great time with this whole comics britannia season actually - tonight's offerings were excellent, revealing superb nuggets of fun like the lame ballerina, pat 'run for the hills' mills on charley's war, and morrison and quitely giggling like stoned schoolkids about a favourite broons story from my kiddiehood. i fell asleep during the herge one mind, falling asleep on the sofa being a hobby i prefer even to comics these days.
 
 
FinderWolf
00:56 / 18.09.07
when will this be on YouTube, as Rich Johnston promised???
 
 
Janean Patience
07:40 / 18.09.07
Alan Moore is a sartorial nightmare. And those rings... Jacqueline Wilson, another of Comics Britannia's talking heads, is just as bad. She must have a couple of pounds of silver on each hand. If the two of them ever shook hands the screeching clash of metal against metal would be horrific. Like two Transformers in a frenzied fistfight, sparks and sharps everywhere.
 
 
Spaniel
07:59 / 18.09.07
I'm wondering if it's on UK Nova, Finder.
 
 
Spaniel
08:00 / 18.09.07
Gumbitch, you read Broons?
 
 
iamus
10:33 / 18.09.07
It's been a good few days on British TV for comics, that's for sure.

Particularly liked Stan's wee stutter over Ditko when Jonathan quizzed him on the co-creator rights, and Jonathan and Neil meeting up with Ditko off camera then walking back down, lit up like giddy schoolboys. Really sweet ending, I actually think I prefer it that way to him actually showing up on camera.

I really have to search out some back issues of Tammy, don't I?
 
 
Spaniel
10:38 / 18.09.07
I think we all do. That era of British comics is something I know nothing about - in fact I'm not much cop discussing anything before 2000AD. Sounded bloody barmy.
 
 
Janean Patience
11:05 / 18.09.07
Martin Barker, an academic who's written a few books about British comics, was a consultant on this show. He's written some fantastic stuff about the insatiable desire of girls to read comics where other girls suffer. As I recall they decided to kill one character, an orphan possibly called Trixie who died alone and unloved at the bottom of a bomb crater after saving another girl's life, and the reader reaction was fabulous. The female readers of girls comics in that era, Barker concluded, wanted to see heroines go through unending misery and abuse concluded by death.
 
 
iamus
13:08 / 18.09.07
I can think of two comic shops nearby that could have a selection of this stuff, so I'll be checking them out at the nearest opportunity. Y'know, some of the art in those comics was bloody phenomenal and it kind of shames me I've not previously been more aware of the early British scene.

Getting a bit offtopic but it falls under the same Comics Britannia run, there's a documentary on Moebius playing on Sun 23rd. That should be a priority for anyone with sense.
 
 
Spaniel
14:10 / 18.09.07
I will be there.

I'm thinking about altering the title and summary of this thread to encompass the entire Comics Britannia season. I wanna talk about this stuff, basically.

Any objections?
 
 
iamus
14:29 / 18.09.07
None here.
 
 
iamus
14:48 / 18.09.07
Looks like 30th Century Comics, is the place to look for back issues of old British comics. They certainly seem to have a good wee selection of girls comics, including Tammy.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
18:05 / 18.09.07
It's weird, but watching last night's Comics Britannia (which really is a lot better than it had any right to be - all hail BBC4 not dropping the ball on a fringe interest show), I remembered reading some 'Tammy' comics in particular, during that hazy time when you'd read anything you could find at the local Jumble Sale. they really were sadistic - girls comics as done by Lars Von Trier. Really melodramatic in that 'wuthering Heights' way, and often genuinely deranged.
 
  

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